#microformats 2023-02-08

2023-02-08 UTC
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@wastemobile ↩️ 不到兩個月的時間內，Mastodon 月活躍用戶從38萬攀升至250多萬，又降回140萬，許多新用戶抱怨「很難用」。 是事實，此波震盪最重要的並非尋找一個推特替代品，而是如何讓 ActivityPub 互通各類 microformats 網路原生內容的環境成形。 The Mastodon Bump Is Now a Slump https://bit.ly/3RGRYeO (twitter.com/_/status/1623123605281456128)
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[0x3b0b] Right. Carrots it is.
angelo, ur5us, ur5us_, gRegor, janboddez, [dave], [pfefferle], [tantek], [tw2113_Slack_], IWSlackGateway, ehmry, [snarfed], [manton] and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
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[tantek] I found a use-case for keeping *some* relative links relative in e-content: footnotes
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[tantek] e.g. an inline footnote fragment link to its note expansion elsewhere (near the bottom) of the e-content, which then may have a fragment link back to the inline reference. that would ideally still "work" as fragment links to scroll up/down into view accordingly, even if that e-content made its way into a feed reader, or say Mastodon
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[KevinMarks] are they fragment-only links?
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[tantek] correct
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[tantek] I mean yes
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[KevinMarks] that seems doable as a parsing heuristic
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[tantek] really funny to be solving these two different (seemingly unrelated) problems at the same and find a connection
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[tantek] also, fragement-only links inside an e-content can be reasonably expected to reference other things in the e-content, in general (whether footnotes or others), so keeping them fragment-only makes sense
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[tantek] I forgot the issue number
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[tantek] will update the proposed resolution
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing (+103) "editorial: s/whitespace/spaces, and add note in HTML parsing rules clarifying existing meaning of 'spaces' meaning HTML collapsible blank spaces (which is what’s implemented)" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing (+195) "Proposed for e- parsing, normalized absolute URLs in all URL attributes except those with fragment only values, to solve issue 38 and allow for relative links to *inside* e-* properties to keep working in embedded use-cases" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^ [snarfed] gRegor Zegnat proposed way of resolving https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/38 while preserving a very useful e-* property embedding feature (relative links within the e-* value itself), use-case: https://indieweb.org/footnotes 🙂
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Loqi [preview] [willnorris] #38 resolve relative URLs in e-* html
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[tantek] [will] also
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gRegor Hm, what if the reader has 2+ posts with the same fragment? You were talking about making yours something like #note-{number} right? so they would repeat among different posts.
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[tantek] no you missed the detail about a prefix
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[tantek] search for "concatenating prefix param" here https://indieweb.org/footnote
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[tantek] each of my posts will have unique prefix params to solve that problem, probably based on the newbase60 compression of the date and the post number
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gRegor From the parser impl perspective, it seems more difficult to only make some links absolute. Not a lot more difficult, but some amount.
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[tantek] a little yeah you have to add an if check for the attribute starting with '#'
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[tantek] and not just a reader having 2+ posts, this needs to work on my home page 🙂
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gRegor true
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gRegor Not sure, my initial thinking is I would expect clicking a link in a reader to take me to another page, not jump within the reader itself.
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gRegor And same for masto
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[KevinMarks] it is a bit odd when the footnotes are actually links, yes
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gRegor But really I've only experienced reading your posts in a reader
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[tantek] I think it's distracting if trying to view a footnote changes your reading context
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[tantek] this is kinda new territory as I don't think many (any?) blogs have supported this sort of behavior in readers etc.
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[tantek] so some amount of expectation changes can be expected. I like that the small unicode number hints at, this is a very small link and may just do something a little different than clicking a whole big hyperlink URL or word/phrase which will navigate you
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[snarfed] so the tradeoff seems to be, pro: keeping fragment links within the current embedding is nicer than loading the separate original page
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[snarfed] con: that experience is going to be brittle and inconsistent in practice, due to sanitization varying widely, fragment destinations hidden in collapsed longer posts, etc
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[snarfed] given that tradeoff, I think I lightly lean toward fully qualifying fragment links
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[snarfed] but only lightly
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[KevinMarks] then you end up with the weird mastodon thing of relative links to the cached full link on the original instance
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[KevinMarks] not sure how you unwrap that, but it is probably what is breaking the inline ones
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[tantek] hence per #indieweb-dev the opportunity for experimenting and learning!
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