#microformats 2023-02-17

2023-02-17 UTC
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@t Nineteen years ago last Saturday, @KevinMarks.com & I introduced^1 #microformats @OReillyMedia ETech 2004, building on "semantic (x)html". We’ve come a long way since, from methodologies to #microformats2, from publishing to peer-to-peer #IndieWeb ... https://tantek.com/t5PQ1 (twitter.com/_/status/1626389802546520064)
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] and other folks here, should I reformat https://tantek.com/2023/047/t1/nineteen-years-microformats into a blog post for microformats.org
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[tantek] ?
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] Nineteen years ago last Saturday, @KevinMarks.com & I introduced¹ #microformats @OReillyMedia ETech 2004, building on “semantic (x)html”. We’ve come a long way since, from methodologies to #microformats2, from publishing to peer-to-peer #Indi...
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gRegor [tantek]++ good post, I say go for it on microformats.org
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Loqi [tantek] has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (80 in all channels)
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tantek edited /vote-links (+211) "Contributed from Technorati dev wiki deadlink and Internet Archive copy" (view diff)
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[tantek] thanks gRegor, will be interesting to see how much reformatting WordPress will require
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[tantek] also WordPress doesn't give me automatic footnotes 😆
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gRegor hah
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gRegor The source view should work pretty well, autoconverts 2 line breaks to <p> I think.
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gRegor But footnotes would be manual, yeah
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[tantek] I might try copy pasting my generated source into WordPress to see if that works, rather than copy/pasting my plain text source
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[KevinMarks] I think it works as a blog post too
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@amoration RT @tantek.com@fed.brid.gy Nineteen years ago last Saturday, http://KevinMarks.com & I introduced¹ #microformats OReillyMedia ETech 2004, building on “semantic (x)html”. We’ve come a long way since, from methodologies to #microformats2, from publishing to peer-to-peer (1/27) (twitter.com/_/status/1626398759033663489)
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[tantek] Lol my site to fedi to retoot to POSSE synthetic RT
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[tantek] Wait. "(1/27)" ?!?!? Oh dear what did I cause
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gRegor Was that line generated by a chat bot? XD
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[tantek] It's only one tweet so I wonder where the other 26/27 are 🤔
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gRegor the suspense!
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[tantek] What do folks here think of microformats.org volunteering to take over OGP? Per https://chriscoyier.net/2023/01/28/open-graph-blues/
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[tantek] Looks like originally from EdenT: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2022/11/is-open-graph-protocol-dead/
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[tantek] I know both Eden and Chris and can reach out but wanted to get others opinions here first
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[tantek] A modest proposal would be to maintain OGP as part of metaformats
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[tantek] https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats
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[tantek] Thanks to [pfefferle] for the heads up that OGP .me itself is down and link to Chris's post
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] GWG gRegor aaronpk WDYT?
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GWG I think we're the right place for it if no one else wants it.
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aaronpk seems reasonable
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[KevinMarks] That does make sense. Also potentially being a place to co-ordinate shared preview services to mitigate the mastodon thundering herd preview problems
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[pfefferle] seems to be fixed now (at least) https://mastodon.social/@zpao/109880718299431674
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Loqi [preview] [Paul O’Shannessy] @pfefferle @chriscoyier @MikeBlazer @Edent @anildash we (Meta) still own it and will autorenew. I was changing DNS this week to isolate away from our servers so must have messed it up. Will fix! Not intentionally broken 😬
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[pfefferle] https://ogp.me/
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> How do we do this?
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[aciccarello] Do we think FB would be open to that if our current recommendation for meta formats is "don't"?
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[tantek] aciccarello, usually when orgs start to abandon things, that's not one of their top concerns
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[tantek] capjamesg, I think a few of us (like myself and [KevinMarks] at least) can reach out directly to Edent, and others who brought up the conversation to see if they would support it, and if so then we can all make that case to the folks in those threads from FB/Meta
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[aciccarello] I think it'd be good to be able to have a more responsive community behind OG.
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[aciccarello] I know we've talked about cleaning up the documentation on OGP. I wonder if a clear, pragmatic set of recommendations for websites would be warranted. "Here are the risk of metadata but here's a list of minimal recommended tags for tools that don't parse MF2"
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[aciccarello] I think there's content like that on the IndieWeb wiki already
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[tantek] yes in https://indieweb.org/link-preview
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[tantek] but that's different than a formal spec of how to parse it
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[aciccarello] Right, I'm thinking from the producer perspective rather than consumer.
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btrem It should say "OG is not the OG of data." :-D
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[tantek] lol
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btrem New slogan for mF!
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btrem "OG ain't the OG. mF is the OG!" Perhaps followed by a couple of "woot"s. ;-)
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[tantek] that sounds dangerously close to a hiphop lyric
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[tantek] aciccarello, what would help is coming up with actual use-cases that *require* OGP rather than are solved by the other points made in indieweb.org/link-preview
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[tantek] I think [KevinMarks] has some use-cases but they're a bit snarky 🙂
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btrem I've never used OGP, and don't quite get it. But then, I've never spent much time on FB. (Joined a decade ago or so, spent a month or two, got bored, stopped paying attention.) Are there use-cases that require it?
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GWG I only use it as a fallback
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[tantek] GWG, does your implementation look like the algorithm in the metaformats spec?
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GWG My approach is cited in a link on the page
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GWG I go a bit farther, but otherwise yea
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GWG yes
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[tantek] perhaps we need tests then
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GWG [tantek]: I came up with my personal algorithm by just throwing websites at the code and tweaking ot
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GWG it
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[tantek] sure, have you analyzed the differences between your algorithm and the spec algorithm and come up with reasons why?
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[KevinMarks] Tests would be a good idea, especially given the OGP vs twitter syntax
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[tantek] right, seeing what existing implementations do in the presence of both
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[KevinMarks] And adactio's trick for the overlap
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[tantek] aside, all the "are we just helping train AIs that will harm humanity?" concerns do make me appreciate that we have kept microformats micro
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gRegor I'm intrigued by the idea of taking on OGP, especially if we could add tests and iterate on it. I use minimal OGP for images, title, and description for some work projects. Don't love it, but am sympathetic, so I'm not entirely in the "don't" camp :)
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gRegor ogp dot isalright as a test suite. Is that a TLD? ;)
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[KevinMarks] I'm not sure a .rocks works, true
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[aciccarello] ogp.wtf and ogp.work are available
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[KevinMarks] We can redefine the acronym to Obsolete Gibberish Previews
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> .dev?
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btrem :-D at ogp dot wft
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[tantek] the .wtf has a certain ring to it
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[tantek] no need for another domain though, presumably if maintenance is the goal here, then the folks handing it over would want to do so with the existing .me domain
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[tantek] gRegor, we could serve the role of "freezing" OGP's current featureset that's actually implemented across multiple consuming services, and then have tests just for that
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gRegor Yeah, I was half joking about the domain for a test suite. Could put it on the dot me.
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gRegor Python people, can you review this? Github warned of this python vulnerability for python.microformats.io https://github.com/advisories/GHSA-xg9f-g7g7-2323
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gRegor Repo https://github.com/microformats/microformats-parser-website-python
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Loqi [preview] [microformats] microformats-parser-website-python: Website for Microformats Python parser (mf2py & mf2util)
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