#microformats 2023-10-30

2023-10-30 UTC
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[davidmead] Back in 2016 I used to PESOS checkins from Untappd to my blog (https://indieweb.org/Untappd), but that’s gone the way of the Dodo. I’m going to add them back to my blog, but what do others, if any, mark them up as? h-review? h-event? both?
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[KevinMarks] h-review is what they primarily are I would think, though some are also events and possibly check-ins.
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[davidmead] I know. It’s a bit of a mixed bag. If I drank it in a venue, I’d have to mark that up too. I’ll play around, see what I come up with
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[davidmead] I don’t recall them ever being marked up with microformats in the past
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[KevinMarks] the Untappd structure potentially has 2 venues for where it was consumed and where it was bought if that's different.
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Zegnat [davidmead]: looking at http://microformats.org/wiki/h-review#Properties people have been playing with adding a location property to h-review. So you would be able to mark up the location.
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Zegnat I would also say that you are generally posting about the drink, not about the fact you are out drinking, so I would not consider it an event
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[tantek] indeed it's looking a lot like an h-entry
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[tantek] I'm not fully convinced still that h-review needs to be a separate object from an h-entry. it's almost a "just" a special h-entry
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Loqi explicitposttypes has -1 karma over the last year
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[snarfed] explicitposttypes--
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aaronpk That matches my own review publishing practices
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aaronpk its a blog post with a few extra properties
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barnaby makes sense for consumers, too. if you publish reviews as .h-entry.h-review, then anything which can handle h-entry will show most of the content just fine, and anything which wants to add additional features can do so without having to implement handling a whole separate type of post
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[aciccarello] I like the double h-* idea. Not sure if that would confuse any parsers though.
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[aciccarello] I've had to add some special case logic for my h-reviews
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barnaby it shouldn’t confuse any parsers, the item just ends up with "type": ["h-entry", "h-review"]
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[aciccarello] That's true for mf2
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[aciccarello] I assume JF2 would end up keeping the array right?
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[aciccarello] I could probably look this up myself sorry..
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barnaby hmm good point, I’ve never really worked with jf2. looks like it assumes a single type
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[aciccarello] Yeah, x-ray dropped the second type
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barnaby in jf2 “Type MUST be a single string value only.”
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barnaby are there any know jf2 consumers which handle reviews? If not, I’d err towards publishing jf2 .h-entry.h-review as type: entry with additional properties
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aaronpk parsers dont care, but consumers might
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barnaby *known
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barnaby we’ve overloaded all kinds of
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barnaby content types onto h-entry already
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barnaby afaik reviews are only treated differently because hreview existed already
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aaronpk i suspect h-review was a holdover from the mf1->mf2 migration and maybe didn't need to be their own type from the beginning
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barnaby and because google parse(d?) hreview and presents(ed?) it in search results
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barnaby agreed aaronpk
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barnaby are we still using http://microformats.org/wiki/h-review-issues or are we using github for that now? I see there are issue tracker repos for some other vocabs but not h-review
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barnaby it would be a little ironic to make a new issue tracking repo just to write a “consider merging this vocabulary with h-entry” issue
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aaronpk haha
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barnaby https://indieweb.org/post-type-discovery doesn’t even mention reviews
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barnaby is there a list of any h-review consumers? does anyone’s feed reader have a special UI for them?
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aaronpk oh funny
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aaronpk i think my site has some code for showing reviews in reply context
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GWG So, if review is an h-entry, what would have to change?
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aaronpk add the unique properties of h-review to the h-entry vocab
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barnaby yeah, and expand post type discovery to add review discovery
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GWG barnaby: That's what I'm wondering, what the rule for discovery would be
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barnaby look for presence of p-rating? that’s the property which mostly sets h-review apart from h-entry
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GWG barnaby: One can review without a rating
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barnaby sure, but how would any consuming software treat a ratingless review differently to a regular post?
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aaronpk isn't the item the key distinction?
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barnaby it could display the item or categorize it differently I suppose, but other than that there isn’t really any difference to a consumer
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barnaby aaronpk: as it is, yes, although “item” is a very generic property name
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aaronpk true heh
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barnaby and historically hitem seems to have been used as a generic child mf for at least two parent microformats, hreview and hlisting https://microformats.org/wiki/item-brainstorming#Rationale
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barnaby wow and sotheby’s used to mark stuff up with hlisting?!
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GWG I'm saying that we need a property that refers to the subject of the review.
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GWG You can review more than an item
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GWG I can review a hotel
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GWG An experience....
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GWG An event
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GWG So isn't that review-of ?
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GWG Indicating that this is a review of something?
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barnaby oh yeah that could make sense, continuing the pattern of the other h-entry extensions
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GWG And that could be a u- or a nested h- property, h-item, h-card, etc. indicating what was being reviewed
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GWG Seems better than continuing with h-review.
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[davidmead] So thinking about the export I got from Untappd we’d have…
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[davidmead] I drank this beer
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[davidmead] I drank this beer, have a comment (review?), and gave it a rating
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[davidmead] I drank this beer and have a comment (review?)
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[davidmead] I drank this beer, have a comment, rating, and logged the place I’m drinking/purchased in
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GWG [davidmead]: Slow down.. that's four beers in a row.
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[davidmead] So you could have entry, place, item, and review?
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[davidmead] lol
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gRegor What's the consuming use-case?
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GWG gRegor: For which?
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[tantek] barnaby, add the issue on h-entry, something like (feel to reword) : consider merging h-review functionality / particular properties into h-entry
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[tantek] aaronpk, re: "suspect h-review was a holdover from the mf1->mf2 migration", correct, based on the usage/publishing/consuming of classic mf1 hReview
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gRegor GWG, The Untappd posts
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gRegor h-entry is probably fine unless there's something consuming the other properties you're thinking about adding
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tantek edited /Template:DraftSpecification (-9) "microformats IRC channel, regardless of how its accessed" (view diff)
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tantek edited /hreview (-5) "editorial: microformats IRC channel, regardless of how its accessed, previously mailing list which hasn't been used in years." (view diff)
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[tantek] part of the problem with publishing reviews, as Google found it, is that its a massive spam magnet
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[tantek] it's* a
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gRegor If it's merged into h-entry, that makes my work on https://microformats.org/wiki/h-review-aggregate easier :) I presume it would go away?
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Loqi [preview] gRegor Morrill
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[tantek] gRegor, in hindsight, I think h-review-aggregate was also not a great idea as it was mixing publishing and aggregating
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[tantek] the mf1 predecessor, hReview-aggregate, came out of early collaborations with the structured data folks at Google, who were very focused on "simple" publisher / search engine indexing use-cases
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[tantek] and in hindsight, we now know that the "search engine indexing" use-case is a very poor use-case to use to design technologies because it's a giant spam magnet
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[tantek] that is, technology designed for that particular use-case will result in another spammy information vector
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gRegor Makes sense
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barnaby okay, typed up an issue about h-entry/h-review https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/32
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Loqi [preview] [barnabywalters] #32 Consider merging h-review properties into h-entry
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barnaby (also worth mentioning that I don’t have strong opinions about this either way and am not personally invested in it as I have no plans to publish h-review, just wanted to summarize discussion somewhere while it’s in my head)
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gRegor barnaby++
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Loqi barnaby has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
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gRegor I publish some h-reviews, though not aware of any consumers. I think they show up like a normal post in Monocle. I'll double check.
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gRegor Low priority for mine to appear fancy in Google search, so haven't included hReview on them.
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gRegor Doesn't look like it's doing anything special: https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F2019%2F09%2Freview-the-alchemist%2F
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gRegor Since I include the book reviewed and stars in the content, displays it all like an h-entry would
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