#microformats 2026-01-05

2026-01-05 UTC
sebbu2, gRegor, [snarfed]1, [artlung]1, [morgan]1, [Al_Abut]1, strugee, The_Decryptor1, rumorsmatrix[d], [Al_Abut]2, strugee_, barnaby, Ekul, [Murray], [John_Gorenfeld], ACG, ajwatts, Ri, Ekul1, [schmarty] and [Zephyr] joined the channel
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ulhar4409 is there a way to attach alt text to a u-photo or such, other than using an img element?
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ulhar4409 like, currently i just have my avatar in a link element
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[tantek] yes!
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[tantek] a bunch of us do it in our photo posts
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[tantek] see https://indieweb.org/photo#How_to_markup
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[tantek] oh wait you said OTHER than using an img element, sorry
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[tantek] needs to drink more coffee
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tantek edited /microformats2 (+67) "link up top for devs to see the parser spec" (view diff)
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[tantek] ulhar4409 can you provide a URL with the example of your avatar in a link element?
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gRegor Like a favicon? Not aware of a way to indicate alt text
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[tantek] gRegor in a link element, it's possible that the "title" attribute could be used but I want to check in to accessibility techniques before I recommend that
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gRegor ah yeah
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btrem I asked about to-do terminology a few weeks back, but at the time I was just looking for hints on how to name things. But IIRC, there was only a stalled attempt at h-task/h-todo, right?
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Loqi btrem: [tantek] left you a message 2 weeks, 2 days ago: there's a bunch of (old?) prior work on task / to-do microformats linked from here: https://microformats.org/wiki/exploratory-discussions#productivity_related
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btrem Ah, and an instant reply. Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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btrem [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (149 in all channels)
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gRegor haha perfect
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btrem I know!
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btrem But if my memory is correct, that means there's no such thing as an h-event for to-do items. That is, a feed of `h-event`s can be mapped to `VEVENT`s, but there's no way to map them to `VTODO`. Is that right?
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[tantek] a few explored the possibility like ~20y ago, no one got anywhere with it. it's unclear VTODO works as a schema for any kind of personal productivity
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btrem You mean calendar apps don't implement VTODO?
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[tantek] among other things yearh
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[tantek] I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/zin0nf/calendar_with_vtodo_support/
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btrem Ouf. I didn't realize that. Well, that both simplifies and complicates things. ;-)
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btrem Ha, that reddit post was made 3 *years* ago. With followup 1 year later, asking "did you find anything?" hahaha
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Loqi awesome
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btrem Not really, Loqi! (Don't make me take away the karma point I just awarded you!)
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[tantek] Loqi's unintended sarcasm is on point
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btrem heh, I first thought Loqi's response was inappropriate given my cynical comment. But you're right, if you read Loqi as being sarcastic, it was perfect! Loqi++
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[tantek] it's the upside of Poe's law, you can choose to read bots as being satirical or sarcastic if it sounds better 🙂
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btrem :-D
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btrem goes to look up "Poe's law"
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btrem Never heard of it before. Pretty good.
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ulhar4409 [tantek] re non-`img` u-photos: `<link class=u-photo href="https://ulhar.net/assets/profile/amphi.png">` is what i have in my homepage/h-card rn (href made absolute here)
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[tantek] interesting, not even rel=icon?
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ulhar4409 like as a favicon?
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[tantek] as in the icon for the page
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ulhar4409 i love Snoof but i'm not sure it's favicon material
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[tantek] it's a matter of consistency, the link element is for resources that apply to the whole page, and if you're making it a u-photo then presumably the page is an h-entry for a photo post, or an h-card for a person
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[tantek] also makes sense to have a different icon as a thumbnail of a photo post
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[tantek] anyway this is why I asked for a URL, not code snippet, to better understand the context
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ulhar4409 (more precisely, i haven't wanted to open the can of worms that is icon assets / research...)
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ulhar4409 oh just ulhar.net works
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gRegor hm, so what is it you're trying to achieve?
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gRegor Are you trying to set up an h-card?
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gRegor Oh I do see h-card there now, nevermind
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gRegor Helps if I type "h-card" correctly when searching haha
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[tantek] is <link> outside <head> even supported?
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gRegor Technically yes, I think, though not recommended
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ulhar4409 Apparently for h-card it works
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gRegor Do you not want to visually display that photo on the page?
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gRegor It doesn't have to be the favicon of course. That was just my first thought when read you were using link tag
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ulhar4409 ah
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ulhar4409 mostly i feel like the avatar would be a little awkward to present in the header?
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gRegor On https://gregorlove.com/, my h-card is near the top and I show my photo. microformats can parse visibly hidden elements, so you could still hide it if you really want to, but we usually recommend it being visible so it's easier to tell if it breaks
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ulhar4409 hmmm
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gRegor It could be anywhere on the page really
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gRegor Also any size. On my post permalinks I have a really small author avatar at the bottom right, next to the published date
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ulhar4409 i seem to remember a `hidden` attribute existing? maybe i'll use that somehow
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ulhar4409 but mostly it's not something i have wanted to work into the page's visual design so it's encoded as what my brain considers as metadata (link elements)
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gRegor Ah interesting
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gRegor `data` elements is another option
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ulhar4409 (then again, passively reminding visitors i'm a furry is probably a good idea :P)
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gRegor Example: https://php.microformats.io/?id=20260105221800302
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ulhar4409 huh neat
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gRegor Still no alt text, though. An img element that's visibly hidden is better. Also photo is optional, don't have to have it in your h-card
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gRegor Though it's nice to have if you're going to be posting replies that might show up as comments on other sites, or in reply contexts
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gRegor Interesting re: link tag in body:
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gRegor > A <link> element can occur either in the <head> or <body> element, depending on whether it has a link type that is body-ok. For example, the stylesheet link type is body-ok, and therefore <link rel="stylesheet"> is permitted in the body. However, this isn't a good practice to follow; it makes more sense to separate your <link> elements from your body content, putting them in the <head>.
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gRegor via https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/link
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[tantek] right, not for general use in the body
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[snarfed] related: https://indieweb.org/h-card#Brainstorming
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gRegor neat, `hidden` attribute looks like it works in this test: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20260105223903601
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Loqi [preview] gRegor
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