#social 2014-10-21

2014-10-21 UTC
Loqi joined the channel
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Loqi
harry: tantek left you a message on 10/16 at 9:45am: could you get back to cmhobbs about the status of his invited expert application? he hasn't heard back yet.
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harry
will do - but not right now, in middle of something else
jtauber and Tsyesika joined the channel
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cmhobbs
no worries
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cmhobbs
harry, a couple of weeks ago, i believe evan mentioned talking to me as well but i haven't heard anything
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harry
I am OK with folks dialing in as long as they've been approved or are waiting to talk to chairs in more detail.
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tantek
I'm OK with folks dialing in to just lurk even if they haven't been officially approved. I figure that kind of community/contextual-learning is only a good thing.
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harry
ditto!
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harry
Sorry, in middle of dealing with bugs that Web Team discovered today
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harry
in the spec publication
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tantek
go go go harry!
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harry
very minor but it threatens slowing down the process until after TPAC unless we resolve
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tantek
one day W3C publication process will be automated so that all checks can be done by the editor in advance and then it just becomes a matter of linking to the WG resolution to publish as often as we want. today is not that day.
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cwebber2
hello *
evanpro joined the channel
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evanpro
Hi all
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tantek
welcome evanpro
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evanpro
tantek: thank you
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tantek
btw - freshly posted by adactio on IndieWeb building blocks they got numerous folks up & running with social personal sites last weekend in N├╝rnberg: https://adactio.com/journal/7698
elf-pavlik joined the channel
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evanpro
I started laying out the schedule for TPAC
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evanpro
But we need to get it more specific
oshepherd joined the channel
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bret
morning :)
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oshepherd
Evening
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Arnaud
evanpro: we should add to the F2F page instead of creating a new page
jasnell joined the channel
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evanpro
Arnaud: I don't know about the other page
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evanpro
Can you link?
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oshepherd
Has the meeting time shuffled (primarily has the US changed DST in the last couple of weeks?)
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Arnaud
I added a link to today's agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27
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jasnell
no zakim?
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Arnaud
we have two options we need to choose from
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evanpro
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
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Arnaud
I put a strawman schedule
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
Zakim joined the channel
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trackbot
Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 21 October 2014
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evanpro
chair: evanpro
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oshepherd
Oh, I'm just slightly early for a change :)
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Arnaud
so, we need to merge the two :)
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evanpro
Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, evanpro
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Zakim
On IRC I see RRSAgent, jasnell, oshepherd, elf-pavlik, evanpro, Tsyesika, jtauber, Loqi, tantek, AdamB, cmhobbs, Arnaud, shepazu, KevinMarks, cwebber2, rhiaro, wilkie, bret,
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Zakim
... tommorris, kylewm, mattl, aaronpk, trackbot, botie, sandro, wseltzer
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cwebber2
I think I'm in
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rhiaro
will be on and off irc, don't think I can call in
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jtauber
Zakim, what's the code?
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Zakim
the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jtauber
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elf-pavlik
stuck on gas station, can do only IRC and not sure for how long on this hot spot :(
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oshepherd
No hello/goodbye notifications?
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tommorris
Apologies for absence: been feeling sub-par as a result of continuing medical treatment.
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evanpro
Arnaud: that's such a better structure
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Arnaud
looks like Zakim isn't reporting people joining in again
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evanpro
Let me see if I can copy that over
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evanpro
Probably not quickly
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Arnaud
zakim, this is socl
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Zakim
ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
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Arnaud
zakim, who's on the phone?
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Zakim
On the phone I see +1.514.554.aaaa, jasnell, ??P5, Arnaud, ??P7, [IPcaller], AdamB
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evanpro
Zakim, aaaa is me
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Zakim
+evanpro; got it
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Zakim
+??P10
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jtauber
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
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Zakim
+jtauber; got it
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bret
Zakim, ??P10 is me
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Zakim
+bret; got it
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bret
(I think)
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jasnell
fyi... laptop battery likely not going to last the full hour.. may end up dropping off irc at some point... we will see tho
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Zakim
-??P7
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Zakim
hears ??P5's hand up
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Zakim
sees ??P5 on the speaker queue
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jasnell
wow.. that's super irritating
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Zakim
+??P7
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cwebber2
Zakim: , ??P5 is me
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evanpro
Whoever is leaning on their phone, PLEASE STOP
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cwebber2
Zakim, ??P5 is me
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Zakim
+cwebber2; got it
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oshepherd
Zakim, ??P7 is me
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Zakim
+oshepherd; got it
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Zakim
+[IPcaller]
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evanpro
Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim
On the phone I see evanpro, jasnell, cwebber2, Arnaud, jtauber, AdamB, bret, oshepherd, [IPcaller]
MarkCrawford joined the channel
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wilkie
Zakim, IPcaller is me
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Zakim
+wilkie; got it
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cwebber2
honk honk
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bret
Zakim, mute me
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Zakim
bret should now be muted
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Zakim
+ +1.703.670.aabb
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elf-pavlik
if we mute/unmute this way it will not get into minutes!
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Zakim
-oshepherd
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MarkCrawford
Zakim, +1.703.670.0920 is me
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Zakim
sorry, MarkCrawford, I do not recognize a party named '+1.703.670.0920'
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evanpro
Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim
On the phone I see evanpro, jasnell, cwebber2, Arnaud, jtauber, AdamB, bret (muted), wilkie, +1.703.670.aabb
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evanpro
AdamB, would you mind scribing?
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MarkCrawford
zakim, +1.703.670.aabb is me
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Zakim
+MarkCrawford; got it
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Zakim
+??P7
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evanpro
scribe: AdamB
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oshepherd
Zakim, ??P7 is me
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Zakim
+oshepherd; got it
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Zakim
+Lloyd_Fassett
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AdamB
evan: first item approving last weeks minutes
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AdamB
...pretty important resolutions in the minutes ....
harry joined the channel
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AdamB
... any objections to approving?
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harry
waves
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AdamB
.... minutes have been approved
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
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AdamB
RESOLVED: Approval of Minutes of 14 October 2014
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AdamB
evan: like to talk about upcoming face to face ... unfortunately have 2 diff schedules
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AdamB
... will use Arnaud version
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Zakim
sees ??P5, Arnaud on the speaker queue
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Zakim
+??P16
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Arnaud
ack ??P5
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Zakim
sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
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AdamB
.... first covering overall direction as a group, where we are going
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tantek
Zakim, ??P16 is me
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Zakim
+tantek; got it
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AdamB
... discussing AS 2.0 and moving that forward
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evanpro
ack Arnaud
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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AdamB
.... new efforts coming up around Social API and Federation protocol ... F2F best time to discuss those
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AdamB
Arnaud: first would like to ask people ...schedule of tpac provides 11am to 5pm for adhoc group breakouts ... put together on F2F page for two possible options to choose from
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tantek
agreed that f2f is a good time to discuss API and federation protocol work
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AdamB
... ... as a working group we should decide our approach ... on that list is straw man to start discussion
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Zakim
+ +1.408.335.aacc
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AdamB
... think we should choose between these 2 options
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elf-pavlik
q+ re: any news from OpenSocial?
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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AdamB
... could mix for example, could do option 1 on monday and option 2 on tuesday
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tantek
I am also participating in the AC meeting as an AB member. So would prefer not to conflict with that.
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AdamB
evan: one way to max. productivity by taking first day to address 3 major goals of this group
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AdamB
... if conversation goes well on monday will likely have tuesday then to do more break out sessions
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AdamB
evan: suggesting option 1 on monday and 2 on tuesday
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tantek
Option 1 on Monday, and Option 2 on Tuesday works for me too
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tantek
I would drop "WG Dinner" since usually that's a good time for cross-group pollination
Shane and jkorho joined the channel
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AdamB
proposal of: option 1 on monday and tuesday do more break out sessions during the mid day break
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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jtauber
+0
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tantek
+1 with including federation protocol on Monday, and no WG Dinners
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MarkCrawford
+1
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cwebber2
I'm abstaining from all the TPAC votes since I won't be there ;)
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Zakim
+??P18
harry joined the channel
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Zakim
-??P18
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evanpro
Zakim, q?
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Zakim
I see no one on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
WG dinner on Monday or Tuesday?
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harry
Zakim, what's the code?
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Zakim
the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), harry
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Zakim
+??P18
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MarkCrawford
Tuesday is AC dinner
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Shane
Zakim, ??P18 is me
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Zakim
+Shane; got it
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Shane
Zakim, mute me
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Zakim
Shane should now be muted
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harry
Monday would work!
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Zakim
+??P19
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Zakim
-??P19
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Shane
Hi all, sorry I'm late
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Zakim
+[IPcaller]
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harry
Zakim, IPcaller is hhalpin
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Zakim
+hhalpin; got it
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tantek
Tuesday has AC dinner that Arnaud (and Tantek) will attend
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tantek
can we have a quick poll of who where in IRC will be at TPAC and which days?
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tantek
MTWThF
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AdamB
evan: given this structure can we break up the day on monday in to 3 blocks
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harry
MTWThF
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MarkCrawford
MTWThF
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rhiaro
MTWThF
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AdamB
MTWTh
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AdamB
evan: are ok with leaving agenda for day 2 relatively open and putting that together at the end of day 1
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MarkCrawford
Can we have some time for use case presentation from the SocialIG?
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AdamB
arnaud: seems to make sense
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AdamB
evan: some have been discussing proposals ... this is the optimal time to start making suggestions for presentations etc
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AdamB
... asking that folks that are willing to do that to post to the email list and will fit in to those slots on afternoon of monday
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harry
Notes that Matt Marum isn't on the call - not sure who from OpenSocial is presenting their take on things
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AdamB
... 5-10 minute presentations
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oshepherd
I have a proposal I'll email in this week (but unfortunately can't attend TPAC)
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evanpro
oshepherd: that sounds great
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tantek
can we skip email middleman and just edit wiki schedule directly to add ourselves?
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harry
Zakim, who's making noise?
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evanpro
tantek: yes, that's fine
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Zakim
harry, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (28%)
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MarkCrawford
q+
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack MarkCrawford
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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AdamB
arnaud: referencing marks question about giving some time to social IG use cases
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Arnaud
TPAC attendance: All week
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AdamB
MarkCrawford: have narrowed down the use cases ... continuing to work them ... would like to share them to the WG
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AdamB
... important for us in the IG to report back on where we stand at this point
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AdamB
evan: sounds great, make time on tuesday morning on that?
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AdamB
MarkCrawford: that should work, schedule around use case task force leader availability
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AdamB
evan: lets plan on tuesday barring any objections
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Zakim
sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
q-
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Zakim
sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack Arnaud
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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KevinMarks
I may be remote too
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AdamB
Arnaud: remote participation .. elf and shane remote is all right now? are there others planning to call in?
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oshepherd
I might try and call in - haven't had time to look at timing yet
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Shane
I've not checked the times yet for whether I can remote, I think there will be issues with timezones, but we shall we
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Shane
*see
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elf-pavlik
q+ re: who will participate on Wed in Schema.org and Social WG? https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/SessionIdeas#Schema.org_and_Social_WG
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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AdamB
Harry: all the rooms have polyphones ... can put a bridge booking request in now
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tantek
q+ to also offer broadcasting AV with talky.io for remote particpants to listen/watch
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, tantek on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack tantek
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Zakim
tantek, you wanted to also offer broadcasting AV with talky.io for remote particpants to listen/watch
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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AdamB
evan: sounding like a general framework and with the chairs can resovle the schedule
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AdamB
tantek: think its fine to just add directly to wiki
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cwebber2
that'd be great
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AdamB
... for remote participation I can setup a audio/video broadcast using Talkie RTC session
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Loqi
talky has 3 karma
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AdamB
evan: will be able to show screen?
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Shane
Yeah talky has show screen
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AdamB
tantek: it can pick from multiple inputs
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Zakim
+??P19
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elf-pavlik
talky sounds great!
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Zakim
-??P19
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AdamB
..including screen share
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harry
KevinMarks, I can't find your W3C account.
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AdamB
waht about the network issues ?
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harry
Do you have one?
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harry
A user-name?
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AdamB
slow network?
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AdamB
tantek: also setup an etherpad (sp?) especially if we start doing breakouts
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AdamB
... can be hard to follow IRC
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Shane
During indiewebcamps etherpads have been extremely useful
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AdamB
evan: sounds great, lets do both
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evanpro
ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss who will participate on Wed in Schema.org and Social WG? https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/SessionIdeas#Schema.org_and_Social_WG
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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AdamB
tantek: this is all in addition to IRC
bblfish joined the channel
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KevinMarks
kmarks2 is apparently my username, but when I try to reset I get stuck
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AdamB
harry: in response to elf-pavlik question .... breakout session on wednesday to talk about Schema.org and Social WG
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KevinMarks
I'm happy to start a new account but it didn't like me trying that with an email it had seen (kevinmarks@gmail.com)
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AdamB
evan: I will be there
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AdamB
... def some coordination needed there
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elf-pavlik
evan: could you add yourself to that section in a wiki?
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AdamB
harry: its an open space 1hr session. good to be there from beginning but can drop in at any time
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tantek
q+ to advocate asking for folks to join the SocialWG
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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AdamB
arnaud: tpac registry is officially closed but can register on site
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bret
oh wow
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harry
Note we are running at capacity
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cwebber2
guess for sure doing remote participation then now :)
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AdamB
harry: our social group space is completely booked
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harry
However, some folks who are "observers" won't show
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tantek
Zakim, who is being noisy?
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Zakim
I don't understand your question, tantek.
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evanpro
Probably me!
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harry
Zakim, who's making noise?
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Zakim
harry, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: hhalpin (71%)
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AdamB
harry: space is booked because of observers ... members have priority over them
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harry
Also, speaking of WG members, I'm trying to double-check IEs - one of chairs, e-mail me the list of folks that need to be approved so I can double-check?
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack tantek
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Zakim
tantek, you wanted to advocate asking for folks to join the SocialWG
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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harry
For schema.org meeting, please add name to wiki here:
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AdamB
tantek: regarding about participation ...since we are full for monday and tuesday if you are attending as observer please join as member
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harry
Actually, I suspect Ralph Swick will be leading, but I proposed
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KevinMarks
is trying to join but w3c password process designed by Kafka
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AdamB
... for folks that do plan on wednesday session about schema and social wg .. for those attending from social wg strongly encourage them to join
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harry
KevinMarks, you can just email sysreq@w3.org I think
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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harry
but try to reset passwords
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harry
agenda?
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Zakim
sees nothing on the agenda
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AdamB
evan: this wraps up tpac conversation
jasnell joined the channel
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tantek
encourage them to join *the Social WG*, so that we don't have to do discussions in side-meetings.
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AdamB
... next want to talk about AS 2.0 working draft
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Zakim
sees harry on the speaker queue
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harry
I can give an update from W3C side
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Zakim
-oshepherd
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evanpro
OK, harry, will ack in a moment after jasnell
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AdamB
jasnell: first cut working draft are in and been working with harry fixing up details on html validation. hopefully those are resolved
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Zakim
+??P3
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AdamB
... one question about the Actions draft
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Arnaud
if you're not registered but plan to attend, please add your name to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27#Participation
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oshepherd
Zakim, ??P3 is me
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Zakim
+oshepherd; got it
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Zakim
sees harry, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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harry
Its kinda weird to hold on actions since the drafts are very interlinked.
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AdamB
... way the docs are right now the first public working draft points to the editor draft
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harry
Zakim, who's making noise?
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Zakim
harry, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (34%), jasnell (100%)
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evanpro
Sorry, other people in my office
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AdamB
I missed the question
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tantek
has anything changed re: the questions asked last week about Actions?
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AdamB
due to noise
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tantek
if no new information, let's not re-open the question
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AdamB
harry: still trying to aim for thursday pub date ... because all 3 drafts are linking to each other the linking validation fails
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tantek
the AS and vocab drafts shouldn't need to link to Actions - this doesn't make sense
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AdamB
... wouldn't be good to publish all 3 together would have re-write links
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Arnaud
the question is whether we can publish Actions draft along with AS 2.0 Core and Vocab
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KevinMarks
I am logged in now, but boy that was hard
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elf-pavlik
tantek, core has section on PotentialAction which uses terms from Actions Vocab
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tantek
using pub process as an excuse to publish a previously unapproved draft is kind of bad form
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tantek
so drop the crosslinks to Actions
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AdamB
... in terms of just pure publication have them heavily linked and not on w3c space makes publishing little bit trickier
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tantek
just comment them out
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tantek
substantial reasons / questions - all in last week's minutes
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tantek
no implementation experience with Actions
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harry
The problem is everything is densely interlinked so we have to do changes to drafts.
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tantek
it was a bunch of political +1s with no pragmatic questions asked
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elf-pavlik
just remove PotentialAction section?
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AdamB
jasnell: actions piece is still an open question ... def. interesting in working on but was missing clear use cases so objection was raised due to that
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AdamB
arnaud: minutes from last week show that clearly
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evanpro
Zakim, q?
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Zakim
I see harry, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik
s/remove/move to dedicated spec/
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AdamB
... there is interest in group but non documented yet
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Loqi
elf-pavlik meant to say: just move to dedicated spec PotentialAction section?
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AdamB
jasnell: base on that we don't have documented ones for AS either
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MarkCrawford
implementations are not necessary until we get further along
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tantek
why not just cut everything to do with Action from the first two drafts?
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harry
Sorry, W3C team publishing requires links to resolve
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tantek
is such commenting out more than 5 min of work?!?
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elf-pavlik
+1 tantek
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AdamB
jasnell: does look to be a public link issues from publishing perspective
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harry
and github.io doesn't do fragment id links
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harry
So, we can just remove links to Actions Drafts
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harry
that's fine with me, it may delay things a bit.
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KevinMarks
+1 on links having to resolve
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AdamB
... could just publish with actions but that still doesn't commit the wg to do anything with it
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evanpro
ack harry
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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tantek
harry - why does a 5 minute commenting-out task delay things?
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harry
Or we can put a weird snapshot of the Editors Draft somewhere outside github.io
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bret
Shouldn't use cases be examples where there exists some kind of implementation, standardized or not?
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tantek
we're spending more time talking about it than it would take to comment out the links
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bret
not just, ideas
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AdamB
harry: we hit a hitch in w3c because of the links not resolving .. in general want them to resolve properly
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AdamB
... it might slow things down past thursday
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AdamB
evan: is it reasonable to kick out actions for the first version
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, harry on the speaker queue
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AdamB
jasnell: could do that .. basic actions has been in AS since the begining
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Shane
That makes sense to me
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AdamB
... could do that if that is what this group wants
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elf-pavlik
+1 move actions to dedicated spec
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MarkCrawford
as an editors draft, why can't we publish w/o the links to gain a broader audience for the work and get more feedback?
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AdamB
evan: from my view ... since some discussion and not competely essential to core would suggest trim them out now and address later on
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tantek
q+ to discuss this as evidence of modularity failure
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, harry, tantek on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss Reference issues inline in the spec. https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/29
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Zakim
sees harry, tantek on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik
i got impression last week that James agreed
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harry
activitystrea.ms
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tantek
it is a modularity failure because an AS2 implementation does not need to know anything about Actions
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elf-pavlik
<wilkie> elf-pavlik: jasnell said that they would be included in the spec as yellow highlighted sections that link to the github issue I believe
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tantek
therefore the spec shouldn't need to
#
AdamB
harry: its not a modularity issue but a links not resolving ..other issue was AS namespace referenced within
#
MarkCrawford
Harry - does the resolving links requirement apply to all versions, or just final?
#
harry
404 errors
#
harry
which is just not acceptable
#
AdamB
... lot of links get 404 errors which is not acceptable
#
AdamB
... could monkey patch the links out
#
tantek
Proposal: comment out all the links to Actions (and relevant contextual text) from the two drafts.
#
AdamB
jasnell: the AS namespace is personally owned by ??? is maintained by AS on github
#
harry
s/???/Chris Messina
#
AdamB
... i have access to that domain. larger question is do we want to keep that domain / namespace or not?
#
Shane
Would it be better to move them to the w3 domain, perhaps wiki?
#
AdamB
thanks harry!
#
Arnaud
good question, shouldn't we switch to a w3c namespace?
#
Zakim
sees harry, tantek on the speaker queue
#
harry
ack harry
#
Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
#
Zakim
sees tantek, harry on the speaker queue
#
Zakim
-Shane
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harry
nope, doesn't count
#
Zakim
+??P4
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tantek
is the namespace issue a FPWD blocker?
#
Shane
Zakim, ??P4 is me
#
Zakim
+Shane; got it
#
Shane
Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim
Shane should now be muted
#
harry
w3id.org has no more status than activistrea.ms
#
tantek
if it's not a FPWD blocker then we should postpone discussing
#
tantek
let's get past FPWD please
#
harry
it is currently kinda blocking FPWD
#
Zakim
sees tantek, harry on the speaker queue
#
AdamB
evan: two big issues: 1. adding or removing actions 2. removing AS in the namespaces
#
evanpro
ack tantek
#
Zakim
tantek, you wanted to discuss this as evidence of modularity failure
#
Zakim
sees harry on the speaker queue
#
harry
i.e. I'd like to make some changes to the doc but want to make sure the WG is OK with it.
#
elf-pavlik
evanpro, can we come back to my question after you ack me?
#
harry
i.e. we can probably monkey-patch the Action links out
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: yes, please put yourself back on the queue
#
Zakim
sees harry, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
evanpro
Sorry about that
#
harry
but we need to also resolve activitystrea.ms
#
AdamB
tantek: given existing impl have not had to know anything about actions that the spec rec doesn't need to refer to it either. that is what i mean by modularity failure
#
AdamB
... its like a layering failure
#
Zakim
-Lloyd_Fassett
#
oshepherd
+1 on modularising spec appropriately. If ActivityStreams is extensible, actions should be able to live on its' own
Tsyesika joined the channel
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Shane
I think the activitystrea.ms should redirect to a page on w3.org, it is unlikely it will dissapear then
#
AdamB
... no reason core spec should have to mention it at all. so suggestion its completely commenting out from spec.
#
evanpro
ack harry
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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AdamB
.. lets pospone any first draft issues
#
Lloyd_Fassett
Zakim +Lloyd_Fassett
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tantek
any *non* first draft issues
#
AdamB
harry: namespace is pretty close to a blocker
#
harry
We can remove all links to activitystrea.ms
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tantek
let's do that
#
tantek
remove all links that break
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harry
1) we could comment them out directly
#
harry
2) we could replace them with w3.org names
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AdamB
harry: could remove them, comment them out but that is weird cause they are referenced
#
AdamB
.. could replace with w3c ones
#
harry
3) we could ask ChrisM to update real quick so they don't 404
#
harry
I'm OK with any with those
#
AdamB
... or could update domain so they don't 404
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oshepherd
If we go for (2), is it possible to make those names always redirect to latest draft?
#
AdamB
jasnell: does have access so can do it
#
Zakim
+Lloyd_Fassett
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AdamB
... just need to have the time
#
AdamB
evan: its more about the 404 than the namespace issue
#
AdamB
harry: its kind of weird ... its been done but not common
#
Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, Arnaud on the speaker queue
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tantek
I'm ok with external URLs / namespace
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AdamB
... should at least dedicate real thought sometimebefore last call
#
tantek
simplest thing
#
AdamB
.. have to fix broken links now
#
evanpro
s/activitystrea.ms/www.w3.org/Social/WG/
#
Loqi
evanpro meant to say: Can we use http://www.w3.org/Social/WG ?
#
tantek
comment out the broken links, "fix" in next draft
#
harry
we gotta do something about broken links now, the external namespace issue we can deal with later
#
AdamB
evan: james, can we setup way to fix broken links
#
harry
The easiest thing is to just probably comment them out
#
Arnaud
solution: remove the links for now, open an issue on namespace to use
#
AdamB
jasnell: can try to get it done before end of week but not positive i can get it done
#
tantek
I'd say if you can't fix the links in the next hour, then let's comment them out for FPWD
#
Shane
That's probably the best way, for FPWD
#
tantek
that buys us more time to make a considered decision rather than rushed
#
AdamB
harry: i can comment them out for now and add them back in later? are people ok with this?
#
MarkCrawford
+1 on commenting out the links
#
AdamB
evan: maybe comment out and open issues to add them back in
#
harry
I'll put an clearly editors draft
#
AdamB
harry: will do that and mark as editors draft
#
harry
redirect Actions links to the Editors draft
#
Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, Arnaud on the speaker queue
#
harry
that should solve all our linking issues
#
tantek
why not just comment out Actions?
#
harry
Yeah, we could also comment out Actions as well.
#
tantek
that's better for modularity anyway
#
tantek
which is why I'm pushing for that
#
AdamB
harry: will just comment out all broken links
#
elf-pavlik
+1 move actions out of core
#
tantek
this also sets a good precedent for the group
#
harry
We can probably still push things out by Thursday if Webmaster isn't too rushed and all this link commenting works
#
tantek
if your spec has broken links after we've agreed to publish it, then we will comment out the links
#
tantek
I think that's a reasonable policy to adopt
#
tantek
it will strongly encourage editors to do a trivial linkcheck EARLY and OFTEN
#
harry
just need to be fair but also realize W3C, being what it is, can't publish broken links :)
#
oshepherd
thinks if as.ms is to be the namespace, it should probably be under W3C control (but thats probably a discussion for a later date)
#
Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, Arnaud on the speaker queue
#
tantek
harry - totally agree with not publishing broken links (404)
#
evanpro
ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss Reference issues inline in the spec. https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/29
#
Zakim
sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
#
harry
yep, let's save that for a later date - I trust Chris Messina personally
#
elf-pavlik
[from last week minutes] <wilkie> elf-pavlik: jasnell said that they would be included in the spec as yellow highlighted sections that link to the github issue I believe
jasnell joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik
[from last week minutes] <wilkie> elf-pavlik: jasnell said that they would be included in the spec as yellow highlighted sections that link to the github issue I believe
#
AdamB
evan: discussing elf question
#
tantek
oshepherd long term stable domains are challenging aren't they?
#
AdamB
... not sure understand what the issue is yet elf
#
jasnell
OK... I forgot that line item
#
oshepherd
tantek indeed
#
AdamB
Arnaud: it has to highlighting within the text with the issue
#
jasnell
I can add those in today
#
elf-pavlik
jasnell, thx!
#
KevinMarks
is this a fragmention use case?
#
jasnell
That's a minor fix
#
AdamB
tantek: believed would be called out inline within the document. we agreed to publish with that being the case
#
AdamB
evan: jasnell can we get this in?
#
jasnell
That's a quick one
#
AdamB
jasnell: yes
#
harry
I would say we do "inline issues" on next WD
#
Zakim
sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
#
evanpro
ack Arnaud
#
Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
#
Zakim
sees harry on the speaker queue
#
elf-pavlik
harry, how about -comments mailin list?
#
AdamB
Arnaud: we should use what ever is the most efficient way to the document out. but should put in a tracker for what namespace should be used going forward
#
evanpro
ack harry
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
#
jasnell
Oy... Ok
#
tantek
harry - except that we agreed to publish *with* the issues inline.
#
AdamB
harry: need those inline issues within the next hour to make it by thursday
#
tantek
jasnell - can you add those issues inline in next hour?
#
elf-pavlik
jasnell, please :)
#
harry
The issue is that this requires yet another cycle from W3C to fix up, so I say send *exact* issues to mailing list
#
AdamB
jasnell: i can try to get it in the next hour but very difficult. if there are higher priority ones send email and i can try to do them by most important
#
AdamB
harry: webmaster needs 1 day to review it
#
AdamB
... thats how publications always worked
#
elf-pavlik
jasnell, just 4 main issues there
#
AdamB
how hard does that make it for adding issues in the future? does webmaster always have to review those too ?
#
KevinMarks
managed to log into the wiki too - something must have propogated
#
tantek
I'm ok with waiving this requirement for FPWD
#
tantek
elf - are you ok with postponing linking inline to issues until next draft?
#
Shane
Is the issue about Hydra actually an issue of the spec? I don't think it is, just perhaps something to discuss later possibly
#
elf-pavlik
I think we at least need to mention missing JSON-LD @context in examples, but other 3 would also make sense from my POV
#
AdamB
harry: inclined to suggest to link this in later
#
tantek
and does anyone else object to publishing FPWD without the inline issues?
#
harry
I mean, we link to the identifers
#
harry
there's 15 issues
#
harry
all RDF related
#
harry
and opened by elf
#
harry
I'm not sure if this is really blocking
#
AdamB
Arnaud: sounding like we go with out the links are we don't go .. not sure if elf would like to hold up the process for that or not
#
jasnell
Those links aren't critical in my opinion. Not as a blocker.
#
jasnell
There is a link to the issues list in the draft
#
elf-pavlik
can we at lest mention missing @context ?
#
harry
Yes, we do link directly to the tracker
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: are you comfortable with going to FPWD without these links?
#
AdamB
tantek: if there is only a single objection its the chair prerogative to declare rough consensus
#
Shane
I think we need to get it to FPWD
#
harry
I'm inclined to say "no"
#
evanpro
Otherwise, we won't get the doc out
#
AdamB
... if we are risking not getting it out i don't think its worth postponing for this right now
#
elf-pavlik
i will not block but would appreciate at least mention of missing JSON-LD @context in examples, and maybe one about _:post
#
harry
OK, so that's already linked and examples have @context assumed called out
#
AdamB
jasnell: yeah thats as simple as a link ... but if we have no place to host that officially but there is a link to that context in document already
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: that's already called out
#
AdamB
evan: since it's called out maybe take an action to link directly but willing to go with what we have right now
#
elf-pavlik
with a link to context at that stage?
#
Shane
Sorry I have to rush away, thanks everyone.
#
Zakim
-Shane
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: we'll have that, yes
#
AdamB
harry: most working groups only call out substantial issues directly in the spec
#
elf-pavlik
anyways, i trust in your decision folks so just go ahead without including that request from me
#
harry
For example, WebCrypto had 170+ bugs
#
harry
we called like 5 out in text
#
harry
inline
#
elf-pavlik
ok, end of this topic?
#
Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
#
harry
agenda?
#
Zakim
sees nothing on the agenda
#
tantek
admin: we're also 4 min over
#
AdamB
evan: would like to wrap up agenda items we have open and defer to next week at F2F, any objections?
#
tantek
no objection
#
AdamB
... ok would like to adjourn
#
Zakim
-jtauber
#
tantek
+1 adjourn
#
Zakim
-jasnell
#
bret
nice meeting have fun next week
#
oshepherd
Regrets on not being there in person
#
harry
I'll do some editing and will keep trying to get docs out by Thursday, but no promises :)
#
Zakim
-tantek
#
bret
will try to remote
#
Zakim
-Arnaud
#
Zakim
-Lloyd_Fassett
#
Zakim
-MarkCrawford
#
Zakim
-evanpro
#
Zakim
-hhalpin
#
Zakim
-cwebber2
#
tantek
c'mon harry, commit!
#
Zakim
-AdamB
#
Zakim
-oshepherd
#
Zakim
-bret
#
Arnaud
harry, do we have a meeting room #?
#
harry
I'll ask Susan, but I haven't been told
#
Arnaud
would be good to add that info to the meeting page
#
Zakim
-wilkie
#
harry
susan@w3.org knows
#
harry
Arnaud, please send me list of accepted IEs
#
harry
so I can double-check right now
#
Arnaud
this info seems to be lagging
#
Arnaud
here is what's currently available (because I asked ;-) http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/schedule.html
#
harry
I think there's some last minute room re-arrangment going on to TPAC being overbooked.
#
AdamB
trackbot, end meeting
#
trackbot
is ending a teleconference.
#
trackbot
Zakim, list attendees
#
Zakim
As of this point the attendees have been +1.514.554.aaaa, jasnell, Arnaud, AdamB, evanpro, jtauber, bret, cwebber2, oshepherd, wilkie, MarkCrawford, Lloyd_Fassett, tantek,
#
Zakim
... +1.408.335.aacc, Shane, hhalpin
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-social-minutes.html trackbot
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, bye
#
RRSAgent
I see no action items
#
elf-pavlik
goes back hichhiking :) ciao o/
#
evanpro
AdamB: thanks!
#
AdamB
you bet
#
AdamB
i won't be arriving until about 12:00 on monday
#
Loqi
I added a countdown for 10/27 12:00am (#5527)
#
tantek
linked right there on our home page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Members
#
tantek
AdamB - go ahead an add yourself to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Irc-people
#
tantek
For anyone interested in the Social API work in this WG, if you're in SF, make your way to see benwerd's talk today at 17:00 PDT at Moscone: http://werd.io/2014/the-web-is-your-api-feeds-and-actions-using-html5
#
Zakim
disconnecting the lone participant, +1.408.335.aacc, in T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
#
Zakim
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
#
Zakim
Attendees were +1.514.554.aaaa, jasnell, Arnaud, AdamB, evanpro, jtauber, bret, cwebber2, oshepherd, wilkie, MarkCrawford, Lloyd_Fassett, tantek, +1.408.335.aacc, Shane, hhalpin
#
KevinMarks
hm, so I have w3c profile, I can edit the wiki, but I can't log into the invited experts form
#
KevinMarks
oh wait, I can if I try 3 times
#
tantek
harry: ^^^
#
harry
that's great KevinMarks
#
harry
fill it out ASAP
#
tantek
please pass that along to #sysreq / system folks. seriously
#
harry
yeah that is kinda weird, I already cc'ed sysreq@w3.org once on this
#
tantek
the cc'ing will continue until the reliability improves?
#
KevinMarks
the popup for affiliation is quite the thing too
bblfish joined the channel
#
wilkie
KevinMarks: the propagation among w3 services is atrociously slow. my advice is to now never change your password.
#
tantek
perhaps we should eliminate W3C's need to have a password
#
tantek
this is feasible today by implementing IndieAuth instead
#
harry
just bring it up at TPAC and email sysreq@w3.org
#
tantek
ok I'll do that!
jasnell joined the channel
#
bret
i was having issues signing in/setting a pw but I realized i was mixing up email address and username :/
#
bret
woops
#
Zakim
excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
bblfish, tantek and nicolagreco joined the channel