2014-12-09 UTC
Arnaud, Arnaud1, bblfish, richlitt, bblfish_, jaywink, mechanic, elf-pavlik, pfefferle, the_frey, Shane, the_frey_ and tantek joined the channel
# 16:51 tantek talk to you in a little over an hour #social WG! # 16:53 tantek hey look there's an agenda. so much better than sending it statically to all your fax machines - I mean email clients. jaywink_, Arnaud and eprodrom joined the channel
tantek joined the channel
# 17:59 eprodrom I think Zakim comes when we start Zakim joined the channel
# 17:59 tantek not sure when / why that changed so I'm going ahead Arnaud and Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
# 17:59 Zakim I don't understand your question, elf-pavlik. # 17:59 Zakim sees T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, Team_(html-a11y-media)21:10Z active # 17:59 Zakim sees in schedule RWC_WAPI()12:00PM, WAI_PF(Text)1:00PM, T&S_DNTC()12:00PM, IA_WEBPD()1:00PM, WAI_WCAG()11:00AM # 17:59 eprodrom tantek: there was a discussion on the chairs list # 17:59 Zakim sorry, elf-pavlik, I don't know what conference this is RRSAgent joined the channel
# 17:59 Zakim ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute # 17:59 tantek eprodrom: yes and we decided I don't do email # 18:00 Zakim the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), elf-pavlik # 18:00 eprodrom tantek: oh, that was right # 18:00 eprodrom I was going to post the agenda on your weeks # 18:00 Zakim ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM # 18:00 Zakim I don't understand your question, elf-pavlik. # 18:00 eprodrom if it's good with Arnaud # 18:00 Zakim On the phone I see evanpro, aaronpk, ??P4, ??P7, Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, ??P8 # 18:00 Zakim sees on the phone: evanpro, aaronpk, ??P4, ??P7, Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, ??P8 # 18:01 tantek and any further email discussion are not relevant # 18:01 Zakim sees on the phone: evanpro, aaronpk, ??P4, ??P7, Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik, tantek # 18:02 cwebber2 I think jessica_lily can handle the mediagoblin and pump api stuff if it comes up :) # 18:02 mattl tantek: aha. i am also just listening in really. # 18:03 eprodrom Yes it's be great to have her speak up # 18:03 Zakim sees on the phone: evanpro, aaronpk, ??P4, mattl, Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik, tantek # 18:03 Zakim On the phone I see evanpro, aaronpk, cwebber2, mattl, Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik, tantek # 18:03 Zakim On IRC I see RRSAgent, Lloyd_Fassett, Arnaud, Zakim, tantek, eprodrom, jaywink_, elf-pavlik, the_frey_, jaywink, cwebber2, JakeHart, mattl, hadleybeeman, bret, bigbluehat, shepazu, # 18:03 Zakim ... Morbus, Loqi, zz_nickstenn, oshepherd, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, rhiaro, jaakko, wilkie, Tsyesika, jessica_lily, aaronpk, trackbot, sandro, wseltzer_transit # 18:03 eprodrom yikes that is loud # 18:03 eprodrom Arnaud: per our discussion last time # 18:04 jessica_lily Zakim, ??P11 is me # 18:04 jessica_lily Zakim, mute me # 18:04 eprodrom I'm going to post the agenda for the weeks that Tantek is chairing # 18:04 eprodrom It was my mistake Arnaud # 18:04 eprodrom Zakim, who's on the call? # 18:04 Zakim On the phone I see evanpro, aaronpk, cwebber2, mattl (muted), Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik (muted), tantek, jessica_lily (muted) # 18:05 Zakim Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose aaronpk # 18:05 Zakim Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose cwebber2 # 18:05 Zakim Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose evanpro # 18:06 Zakim Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose jessica_lily (muted) # 18:06 eprodrom scribenick eprodrom # 18:06 tantek propose evanpro scribe til pump.io discussion then aaronpk # 18:06 aaronpk should I do the "scribenick" thing when I switch? # 18:08 evanpro Arnaud: Two sets of dates were acceptable by majority # 18:08 evanpro Arnaud: schedule meeting on 17th and 18th and hacktime on 19th # 18:09 Zakim evanpro, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...' # 18:10 Zakim sees on the phone: evanpro, aaronpk, cwebber2, mattl (muted), Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik (muted), tantek, jessica_lily (muted), bret (muted) # 18:10 tantek sandro: any hosting prefs between 17&18 vs. 18&19? # 18:10 evanpro tantek: do we still have these hours available in Cambridge? AdamB joined the channel
# 18:10 Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (63%), tantek (81%) # 18:11 evanpro PROPOSED: 17th and 18th March in Cambridge for F2F # 18:11 elf-pavlik evanpro can you try muting? or tantek has this noise in background? # 18:11 evanpro ACTION sandro set up hosting for F2F 17 & 18 March 2015 # 18:11 trackbot Created ACTION-20 - Set up hosting for f2f 17 & 18 march 2015 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2014-12-16]. # 18:12 evanpro ACTION tantek contact Sandro to enforce ACTION-20 # 18:12 trackbot Created ACTION-21 - Contact sandro to enforce action-20 [on Tantek Çelik - due 2014-12-16]. # 18:13 evanpro tantek: perhaps someone can suggest good places for St. Patrick's day that night # 18:14 Zakim On the phone I see evanpro, aaronpk, cwebber2, mattl (muted), Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik (muted), tantek, jessica_lily (muted), bret (muted), AdamB, Doug_Schepers # 18:14 Zakim On IRC I see AdamB, RRSAgent, Lloyd_Fassett, Arnaud, Zakim, tantek, evanpro, jaywink_, elf-pavlik, the_frey_, jaywink, cwebber2, JakeHart, mattl, hadleybeeman, bret, bigbluehat, # 18:14 Zakim ... shepazu, Morbus, Loqi, zz_nickstenn, oshepherd, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, rhiaro, jaakko, wilkie, Tsyesika, jessica_lily, aaronpk, trackbot, sandro, wseltzer_transit # 18:14 Zakim shepazu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: tantek (68%) # 18:15 elf-pavlik i didn't have time to tidy up my facebook review, by next week will do that! # 18:16 aaronpk evanpro: these are wiki editing actions i've been putting off, so will take care of these after the call ShaneHudson joined the channel
# 18:17 mattl elf-pavlik: if you're speaking, i can't hear you. # 18:17 elf-pavlik i think sound doesn't work for me, just participated in Credentials CG call and it worked just fine # 18:18 aaronpk evanpro: question on the email list about "mentions" # 18:18 aaronpk ... kind of related to tagging someone in a photo, but is embedding someone's name or nickname into a photo or text # 18:19 aaronpk ... was a proposal specifying microsyntax or html for text for some relations # 18:19 aaronpk ... elf brought up a proposal to depend on strucured data in the activity streams, instead of embedding data in the plain text of the content # 18:20 aaronpk ... the proposal right now is essentially to not do anything extra for AS2.0 right now # 18:20 aaronpk tantek: propose elf write up his proposal ont he wiki for how a mention should be handled # 18:21 evanpro ACTION elf-pavlik create wiki page for mentions and proposal # 18:21 trackbot Created ACTION-22 - Create wiki page for mentions and proposal [on Pavlik elf - due 2014-12-16]. # 18:22 elf-pavlik sorry everyone, i just participated 2h ago in Credentials CG and my voice worked just fine, but they use independent VoIP setup... # 18:22 evanpro tantek: any other issues on Activity Streams 2.0? richlitt joined the channel
# 18:23 evanpro used to create publications on your own domain name using any number of clients # 18:24 evanpro On own web site, link-rel to endpoint for micropub # 18:25 evanpro micropub requests are mirrors of microformats requests # 18:25 evanpro Other information generated automatically by the web site # 18:26 evanpro If there are other fields to specify, include them as post parameters and send them as part of the request as well # 18:26 evanpro There are examples of using this for all these types # 18:27 evanpro Requests are extremely small, just enough info to get the service to create the data # 18:27 Zakim sees ??P4, evanpro, shepazu on the speaker queue # 18:28 shepazu (what do you mean by "client" here? website scripts, or browsers?) mechanic joined the channel
# 18:28 evanpro a client means anything that can make a post request # 18:29 tantek client can be a browser or a website serverside script # 18:29 Zakim sees ??P4, shepazu, evanpro on the speaker queue # 18:30 evanpro shepazu: do you mean that people have implemented this on their website? # 18:30 Zakim sees ??P4, shepazu, evanpro on the speaker queue # 18:31 elf-pavlik q+ re: how to add entry to target collection? eg. friend to friendslist or wish to wishlist # 18:31 Zakim sees ??P4, shepazu, evanpro, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue # 18:31 Zakim sees shepazu, evanpro, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue # 18:31 Zakim tantek, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (18%), aaronpk (8%), tantek (40%) # 18:31 Zakim sees evanpro, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue # 18:33 tantek q+ to ask about how do you read someone's activities that have access restrictions? # 18:33 Zakim sees evanpro, elf-pavlik, tantek on the speaker queue # 18:33 Zakim sees elf-pavlik, tantek on the speaker queue # 18:33 evanpro aaronpk: This is the write portion of the API. The discovery is via domain name, and the read part is via the HTML on the page + microformats. # 18:34 Zakim elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss how to add entry to target collection? eg. friend to friendslist or wish to wishlist # 18:34 evanpro aaronpk: we don't have documented examples of social graph # 18:34 evanpro aaronpk: currently about publishing content to a single stream # 18:34 tantek s/social graph/doing that - adding to a collection # 18:35 Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: tantek (4%) # 18:35 evanpro aaronpk: if people start publishing to collections, we would need to figure that out # 18:35 Zakim tantek, you wanted to ask about how do you read someone's activities that have access restrictions? # 18:35 evanpro tantek: micropub assumes that 0auth 2.0 is taken care of # 18:36 evanpro tantek: does that have impact on how private or privileged data is read? # 18:36 evanpro aaronpk: that would require authenticated requests to retrieve the HTML # 18:37 evanpro aaronpk: I can post content only readable by tantek.com e.g. # 18:37 evanpro aaronpk: micropub might be used to let other people edit my posts # 18:37 evanpro tantek: sounds like limited-access read is out of scope for micropub # 18:38 evanpro tantek: if you were writing a client, how would you read a stream with a mix of private and public posts # 18:38 evanpro aaronpk: so far micropub clients don't read or display streams # 18:39 tantek I'll take care of pushing forward jasnell's agenda item # 18:40 aaronpk a number of clients for web, desktop, android and ios # 18:40 aaronpk talking specifically about client-server aspects of the API # 18:40 aaronpk federation protocol is built into the API, so won't cover that here # 18:40 aaronpk pump.io API uses Activity Streams 1.0 the JSON version on-the-wire # 18:41 aaronpk internally models one-directional follow network (groups, contact lists, etc) # 18:41 tantek is quite pleased that Zakim picked aaronpk and evanpro who each ended up minuting the others' API discussion/work. Well done Zakim. # 18:41 aaronpk all clients need to use OAuth 1.0, even the web interface for pump.io # 18:41 aaronpk API has around 42 endpoints, so one of the bigger ones we've looked at # 18:41 tantek (smaller than any of the proprietary ones though right?) # 18:42 aaronpk each user has an "outbox" feed which is activities theyv'e created # 18:42 aaronpk as well as an "inbox" feed which is things addressed to that person # 18:42 aaronpk things from groups they're members of, or based on people they follow # 18:42 oshepherd Theres some redundancy there also - e.g. 9 "filtered" inbox variants # 18:42 aaronpk there's a mechanism in AS 1.0 to specify the audience (to, cc, etc) # 18:43 aaronpk input/output feeds have sub-feeds divided by the major and minor activities # 18:43 aaronpk "like" or "follow" is a minor activity, appear off to the right in the pump.io UI # 18:43 aaronpk whereas major feed items are posting new content, like photos or text # 18:43 aaronpk users create new activities by posting to their own feed # 18:44 aaronpk inbox also has a sub-feed for direct activities, things specifically to them (like direct messaging) # 18:44 aaronpk which is used to creating new users (post to that feed) # 18:45 aaronpk ther's social graph endpoints for getting a list of who you follow, who follow you, etc # 18:45 aaronpk the main feeds (inbox/output) are the main place API clients use # 18:45 aaronpk but it is possible to generate activities using the other endpoints # 18:45 aaronpk for example you can get the list of users you're following, you can also post to that list Augier joined the channel
# 18:45 aaronpk users can also create lists of people, which become your contact list # 18:46 aaronpk can create photo albnums or other collections of objects # 18:46 aaronpk media upload endpoint you can use for uploading files # 18:46 aaronpk it is also a stream, so you can get the media objects back # 18:46 aaronpk posting uploads is kind of complicated, a few ways to do it, easiest way is browser-style multipart file upload # 18:47 aaronpk you'd typically use an "add/remove" verb but can also post directly to i # 18:47 aaronpk for groups there are a few extra feeds, for members, documents, photos # 18:47 aaronpk all objects taht are created have CRUD via HTTP verbs (GET PUT DELETE) # 18:47 aaronpk in the pump.io implementation these actions (PUT) will create an edit activity for that object # 18:48 aaronpk objects also have feeds relating to the object, feed of people who have liked the object, feed of content posted in reply to the object, and who has reposted # 18:48 aaronpk spec for AS1.0 that has defined an umber of feeds that relate to an object # 18:48 aaronpk things like shares, for person may have following,followers,groups, etc # 18:49 aaronpk looking at the endpoints, reaosonable to think it's a pretty big API, but it's actually pretty small with a lot of API sugar thrown in # 18:49 aaronpk the core is really around the user feed and inbox feed # 18:49 aaronpk other things are there to make it easier for clients # 18:49 oshepherd For reference Impeller re-implements all that filtering stuff in the client (so it could be trimmed from the API) # 18:49 aaronpk similar in some way to opensocial except that a lot of the extra information around following/followers is handled through other aspects Augier joined the channel
# 18:50 elf-pavlik q+ re: can one use collections to create wishlists, skillslists, eventslists etc. ? # 18:50 Zakim elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss can one use collections to create wishlists, skillslists, eventslists etc. ? # 18:50 aaronpk evanpro: you can. you can create lists of different kinds of objects named in a specific way # 18:50 aaronpk talking about a wishlist for a user, would have some way to relate that list tothe user # 18:51 aaronpk you could create these lists they would just be tougher to discover than other kinds of lists # 18:51 aaronpk did a poll last week about using "harder" verbs like put and delete # 18:52 aaronpk very few of the pump.io clients on IRC last week said they use PUT/DELETE # 18:52 oshepherd Impeller doesn't use PUT because of an accident of history (tried PUT, didn't work, tried activity, didn't work, fixed bug, it worked, never changed it back) # 18:52 aaronpk instead they use activities with related types. so an activity with a "delete" type rather than the HTTP DELETE verb # 18:52 aaronpk evanpro: no statistics on that, but have an open action for looking at pump.io access logs for that. # 18:53 tantek is there any difference between a list and a collection? # 18:53 aaronpk evanpro: no, doesn't know how sockethub does it. never heard of it. # 18:53 aaronpk does this need to go onto our list of apis to review? # 18:53 oshepherd Impeller will be definitively doing everything via activities because that unifies all things through a common outbox (which can be synced as and when network access is available) # 18:53 aaronpk difference between list and collection? no, lists are implemented as a collection # 18:55 AdamB sockethub -> Sockethub is a polyglot (speaking many different protocols and APIs) messaging service for social and other interactive messaging applications. It assists web app developers by providing server-independent, server-side functionality - which gives the application greater autonomy. It can be used as a tool for many different types of applications, large and small. # 18:55 aaronpk tantek: is anyone here actually using sockethub for their own site? # 18:56 aaronpk last week we discussed only reviewing APIs and implementations someone here is using in the real world, or if someone thinks it has specific relevance to this group # 18:56 shepazu elf-pavlik, maybe ask if the sockethub folks want to participate in the WG or mailing list # 18:56 aaronpk if there's no more questions, move to close the call # 18:56 jessica_lily evanpro++ # 18:57 jessica_lily +1 closing call # 18:57 elf-pavlik shepazu, i did and Nick just needs to weigh this time capacity # 18:57 Zakim Attendees were evanpro, aaronpk, Arnaud, Lloyd_Fassett_, elf-pavlik, tantek, mattl, cwebber2, jessica_lily, bret, AdamB, Doug_Schepers, rhiaro, oshepherd # 18:57 Zakim sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is # 18:58 elf-pavlik aaronpk, if you don't linke posting to mailing list you can ask Loqi to tell me to do it once you have them ready :) Arnaud joined the channel
# 19:01 elf-pavlik hmmm... sometimes s/foo123/bar123/ works after you regenerate RRSAgent joined the channel
# 19:08 elf-pavlik aaronpk, once again nice work with scribing and rescuing minutes with regexes! Arnaud1 joined the channel
# 19:11 rhiaro pandoc worked fine for me last week, from the raw html output # 19:13 tantek heh - perhaps it is converting first to XML and then failing? # 19:17 tantek aaronpk - feel free to expand the #Scribes docs # 19:17 tantek we did discuss trying to improve it a couple of weeks ago # 19:21 tantek ShaneHudson: went pretty well! ended 2 min early. aaronpk is prettifying the minutes harry joined the channel
# 19:57 harry Apologies, was dealing with a visitin gprofessor from Germany who I was hosting officially # 19:58 tantek it was pretty good. there was some confusion because apparently the agenda wasn't faxed 2 days beforehand. # 19:59 tantek sorry, make that *four* calendar days beforehand # 19:59 Zakim tantek, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...' # 19:59 tantek Zakim, ignore all statements that do not address you explicitly. # 19:59 tantek Zakim ignore all statements that do not address you explicitly. Arnaud joined the channel
# 20:12 harry We do have to get better at that, although I know you are not an email person tantek, Arnaud, Arnaud1, harry and pdurbin joined the channel
elf-pavlik :)
tantek check out this academic paper on using the web for personal publishing of such papers and an Acid Test to measure it based on SWAT0! http://csarven.ca/enabling-accessible-knowledge
eprodrom hi all
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-social-irc
aaronpk closed https://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/20 as replaced by https://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/21
bret here is an example of a friend list https://kylewm.com/contacts would be a matter of accepting an h-card
ShaneHudson I had to use pandoc commandline