#social 2014-12-16

2014-12-16 UTC
tilgovi, nicolagreco, tantek, nicolagreco_, bblfish, shepazu, jaywink, pfefferle, Shane and AnnBassetti joined the channel
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tantek good morning #social! our telcon starts in ~45min.
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Loqi tantek: elf-pavlik left you a message 6 days, 8 hours ago: FYI: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2014Dec/0050.html
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tantek !tell elf-pavlik - great - any incremental use of wiki over email is a good thing.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek awfully quiet for just over 10 minutes before the call
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Arnaud why do you expect it to be different?
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Arnaud trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
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RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-social-irc
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trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, trackbot
Zakim joined the channel
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trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
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trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot Date: 16 December 2014
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Arnaud zakim, this is socl
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Zakim ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
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eprodrom Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see jasnell, ??P1, +1.514.554.aaaa, Arnaud
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eprodrom Zakim, aaaa is me
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Zakim +eprodrom; got it
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Zakim hears ??P1's hand up
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Zakim sees ??P1 on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 -q
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Zakim sees ??P1 on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 Zakim, ??P1 is me
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Zakim +cwebber2; got it
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cwebber2 -q
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Zakim sees ??P1 on the speaker queue
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Zakim +??P4
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cwebber2 -q ??P1
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro Zakim, ??P4 is me
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Zakim +rhiaro; got it
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rhiaro Zakim, mute me
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Zakim rhiaro should now be muted
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Zakim +Sandro
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Arnaud zakim, who's on the phone?
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Zakim On the phone I see jasnell, cwebber2, eprodrom, Arnaud, rhiaro (muted), Sandro
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Zakim +??P7
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tantek zakim, ??p7 is me
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Zakim +tantek; got it
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tantek zakim, mute me
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Zakim tantek should now be muted
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tantek zakim, unmute me
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Zakim tantek should no longer be muted
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Zakim + +1.541.410.aabb
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jasnell everyone is winding down
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jasnell brain slowly shutting down for the end of the year
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jasnell +1 for skipping next week
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cwebber2 +1 on skipping 2 weeks
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jasnell +1 for skipping two weeks
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tantek zakim, who is here?
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Zakim On the phone I see jasnell, cwebber2, eprodrom, Arnaud, rhiaro (muted), Sandro, tantek, +1.541.410.aabb
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Zakim On IRC I see RRSAgent, eprodrom, jasnell, tantek, jaywink, bblfish, shepazu, KevinMarks, wilkie, Morbus, Arnaud, pdurbin, cwebber2, JakeHart, mattl, hadleybeeman, bret, bigbluehat,
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Zakim ... Loqi, nickstenn, oshepherd, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, rhiaro, jaakko, Tsyesika, jessica_lily, aaronpk, trackbot, sandro, wseltzer
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tantek who is calling from 541?
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Zakim +bblfish
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bblfish hi
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Zakim +??P10
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tantek who just joined?
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jessica_lily me
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jessica_lily Zakim, ??P10 is me
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Zakim +jessica_lily; got it
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jessica_lily Zakim, mute me
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Zakim jessica_lily should now be muted
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cwebber2 I can scribe if nobody volunteers
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eprodrom Henry is presenting today
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Zakim +[IPcaller]
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eprodrom I scribed last week
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wilkie Zakim, IPcaller is me
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Zakim +wilkie; got it
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eprodrom But I can share in the job
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eprodrom scribenick eprodrom
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eprodrom TOPIC: Approval of last week's minutes
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jasnell no objection
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cwebber2 no objections
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eprodrom RESOLVED: minutes of Dec 9 approved
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eprodrom TOPIC: when should we meet next?
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eprodrom Next meeting is the 23rd
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eprodrom Today is low, next two weeks will be lower
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tantek +1 for 2015-01-06 for next meeting
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eprodrom PROPOSED: skip 2 weeks for holidays, next meeting Jan 6
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jasnell +1 to skipping two weeks
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eprodrom +1
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bblfish +1
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jessica_lily +1 for missing two weeks
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cwebber2 +1 to skipping till jan 6
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eprodrom RESOLVED: next telecon Jan 6 2015
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wilkie +1
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eprodrom TOPIC: schedule on the wiki
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Zakim - +1.541.410.aabb
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cwebber2 I think having deadlines helps a lot
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eprodrom elf-pavlik proposes removing dates from #sched section of socialwg wiki pages
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Zakim + +1.541.410.aacc
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cwebber2 even ones you fall behind on :)
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eprodrom Arnaud: we have a deadline
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eprodrom And we need to keep track of what's going on
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jessica_lily i think deadlines are useful providing they're realistic
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eprodrom q+
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
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tantek who just joined from 541?
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Arnaud ack eprodrom
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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eprodrom eprodrom: Let's put small number of dates on the schedule
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eprodrom tantek: let's use the Tracker to keep dates and schedules
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Zakim +Doug_Schepers
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wilkie that makes sense
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eprodrom q+
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
tilgovi joined the channel
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Zakim hears Sandro's hand up
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Zakim sees eprodrom, Sandro on the speaker queue
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Arnaud ack eprodrom
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Zakim sees Sandro on the speaker queue
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Arnaud ack sandro
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek checks the charter
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eprodrom sandro: we have a commitment to the dates on the charter and we need to update the charter if we don't make it
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tantek note for the minutes, Milestones from the charter: http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html#id-other-deliverables
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eprodrom Arnaud: we are at risk for running out of runway
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ShaneHudson Hi all, I've got IRC open but won't be paying too much attention. We are having an issue with water in the lights in my house :( sorry!
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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eprodrom tantek: we've missed API and Federation Protocol goals already
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tantek for FPWD
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eprodrom tantek: and we need to review as a group
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eprodrom ACTION eprodrom update schedule to show only milestones for approval on Jan 6
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Created ACTION-23 - Update schedule to show only milestones for approval on jan 6 [on Evan Prodromou - due 2014-12-23].
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shepazu confused, sandro… quarters are looser (and thus easier) than months...
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eprodrom eprodrom: shoot for 3/15 for FPWD of Social API
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eprodrom tantek: probably too aggressive
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eprodrom Arnaud: editor's draft?
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jasnell we don't necessarily need agreement on approach before getting a first editor's draft proposal
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eprodrom q+
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
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Arnaud http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open
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Arnaud ack eprodrom
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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jasnell q+
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Zakim sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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tantek zakim, mute me
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Zakim tantek should now be muted
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eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/pump.io_API#HTTP_verb_stats
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tantek notes that evan is understanbly not able to minute himself while talking :)
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tantek evan is closing 3 actions as done 16, 17, 19
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tantek advertising action is still open
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tantek zakim, unmute me
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Zakim tantek should no longer be muted
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cwebber2 tantek: it says "replaced by" 21 :)
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elf-pavlik hi everyone, i'll just try to follow on IRC. currently at meetup with Ben Werdmüller at Mozilla Paris
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cwebber2 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/20
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eprodrom eprodrom: closed Action 16, 17, 19
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eprodrom Action 20: scheduling for F2F
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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RRSAgent records action 1
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trackbot Error finding '20'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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eprodrom Action 20 is about scheduling for F2F
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Error finding '20'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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eprodrom Action 21 and 20 are closed
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Error finding '21'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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Arnaud ack jasnell
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek zakim, mute me
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Zakim tantek should now be muted
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Zakim -tantek
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eprodrom jasnell: leaving actions open for IBM connections API
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eprodrom cwebber2: can you fill in for me for a second?
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cwebber2 eprodrom: yup
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eprodrom Thanks
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eprodrom scribenick cwebber2
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tantek oops ipod ran out of battery.
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aaronpk sorry for missing the call today, had a dentist appointment that ran long
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cwebber2 there has been work on the activitystreams spec, there is a vocab draft separated from the other draft
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cwebber2 this is Arnaud, right?
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elf-pavlik s/scribenick /scribenick: /
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cwebber2 there's suggestion maybe there's a requirement between where we draw line between where we explore vocab at large, where we need something we can all rely on
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cwebber2 jasnell: it's pretty straightforward, vocab I've been working on is sum of a most common use cases I could identify
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cwebber2 across wide set of implementations
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cwebber2 I catalogued what are the most common difficulty / artifacts, went back to base schema in AS 1.0
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cwebber2 reconciled with what we have now
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cwebber2 quite a few additional classes, but all represent real world use cases
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cwebber2 main issue I've seen is there are issues with basic structure but with the objects themselves
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cwebber2 some use schema.org, some use something else
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cwebber2 which mean these implementations don't interoperate
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cwebber2 at the very least, the goal is to represent the most common concepts in a basic way
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cwebber2 so we can implement basic interop
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cwebber2 I advocate that we implement those basic terms as part of base vocabulary
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Zakim hears jasnell's hand up
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Zakim sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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Zakim +??P7
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tantek zakim, ??p7 is me
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Zakim +tantek; got it
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cwebber2 later if IG wants to define some details, this provides some basic interop
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cwebber2 that's where we're at now
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eprodrom +q
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Zakim sees jasnell, eprodrom on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 is this a WG item or a IG item
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Arnaud ack jasnell
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
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Arnaud ack eprodrom
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: yeah, so my basic feeling is this really is part of the working group
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tantek q+ to say vocab interop is WG item, per charter
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Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 our charter is to create a syntax for social data and I think that the social network info that jasnell has put together is what we need for interop at this level
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cwebber2 if we have 5 different definitions of types for a person or a note or different verbs for following/friendly
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cwebber2 friending
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cwebber2 I don't think that can be called interop
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Arnaud zakim, who's on the phone?
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Zakim On the phone I see jasnell, cwebber2, eprodrom, Arnaud, rhiaro (muted), Sandro, bblfish, jessica_lily (muted), wilkie, +1.541.410.aacc, Doug_Schepers, tantek
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cwebber2 what jasnell has done so far is set a solid base for those of us who need to do social data to get started
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Arnaud ack tantek
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Zakim tantek, you wanted to say vocab interop is WG item, per charter
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 but I have hesitancy to go out the door without some agreed upon vocab
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cwebber2 tantek: I agree with eprodrom, WG needs to agree on interop
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cwebber2 it's something implementers who have a strong say in, rather than the interest group
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cwebber2 so +1 for keeping that
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cwebber2 key is to scope so we can meet succuess: what is minimum subset do we need to meet interop?
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cwebber2 calling out minimum subset because looking at some vocabs seem to have terms and prhases that look like people were making them up
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cwebber2 we need to do some implementer getting heads together
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jasnell tantek: which has terms that look "made up" to you? that wasn't clear
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cwebber2 what is the minimum interop so that we can do this
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cwebber2 and other stuff can be dropped
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cwebber2 Arnaud: harry is not on call, so I wonder what he would say
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cwebber2 we will have to make this decision
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cwebber2 should we do a formal proposal?
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cwebber2 I seem to hear agreement
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jasnell +1 on having a proposal
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cwebber2 tantek: if there's agreement, we shoud do proposal, see if there are objections
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eprodrom scribenick eprodrom
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cwebber2 Arnaud: proposal is to keep working, continue jasnell's efforts
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cwebber2 go for it eprodrom
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tantek jasnell - *most terms* e.g. most of schema is totally made-up and no-one uses (including Google)
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eprodrom PROPOSAL: Continue jasnell's effort to do an extended vocabulary for Activity Streams focused on social data
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jasnell +1
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eprodrom +1
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wilkie +1
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cwebber2 +1
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elf-pavlik 0
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jessica_lily +1
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eprodrom jasnell: there are use cases in the wiki, which are what drives the extended vocabulary
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tantek +1 caveat subsetted for vocab terms that are each *essential* for specific documented use-cases.
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eprodrom jasnell: if there are parts of the vocabulary that don't depend on it, we can remove
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eprodrom tantek: we should link every term to a use case
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eprodrom Arnaud: there are steps in the process that make sure what is in the spec is justified
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eprodrom RESOLVED: Continue jasnell's effort to do an extended vocabulary for Activity Streams focused on social data
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eprodrom TOPIC: Linked Data Platform API
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sandro Let's start tghe Imeplemtnation Report *now*
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bblfish https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/LDP
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eprodrom bblfish will give us a preview
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eprodrom page shows links between resources
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tantek observes that looks like LDP API examples use URL from bblfish's site - well done with selfdogfooding it Henry!
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tantek s/URL/URLs
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eprodrom On reaching a resource, must know what he can do with the resource
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eprodrom bblfish: there are namespacing and URL requireements, e.g. TOR
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eprodrom bblfish: LDP is a simplification and generalization of Atom
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eprodrom No requirements on format e.g. XML
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eprodrom Turtle as a default, JSON-LD as a requirement
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eprodrom Reading a resource is extremely simple
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tantek zakim, mute me
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Zakim tantek should now be muted
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eprodrom JSON-LD results come back if you request it
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eprodrom What relations would we want on a LDP seed?
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eprodrom q+
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
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eprodrom Can create binary and data resources, POST on container
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eprodrom Some containers require binding
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eprodrom Basic container does not do that
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eprodrom Authentication not included
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eprodrom LDP Next does include it
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eprodrom Cert or other authentication
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eprodrom Binary resources can be posted
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eprodrom Arnaud: please wait until the end of the discussion for questions
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eprodrom eprodrom: oops
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eprodrom Arnaud: "binary" resources can be RDF or not
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eprodrom bblfish: DELETE is accepted
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eprodrom bblfish: PUT is also accepted
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Arnaud s/RDF or not/binary or anything else/
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eprodrom PATCH is possible but no defined format
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eprodrom LDP WG is working on a simpler format
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eprodrom bblfish: spec also included conditional updates, ETags, etc.
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eprodrom bblfish: LDP Next is next steps
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eprodrom bblfish: including access control
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eprodrom bblfish: potential for queries
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eprodrom bblfish: may use query verb
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eprodrom bblfish: can invent protocols described by the relations
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eprodrom bblfish: how to send a friend request?
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eprodrom bblfish: no email or ask for change to file
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sandro q+ to explain LDP maturity and next
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Zakim sees eprodrom, sandro on the speaker queue
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eprodrom bblfish: ping-to relationship
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eprodrom bblfish: can add new things to the container
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eprodrom bblfish: in LDP-Next there's a notion of data shapes
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eprodrom bblfish: restrict the types of shapes in containers
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eprodrom bblfish: peer-to-peer protocol
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eprodrom Arnaud: status of LDP
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eprodrom Arnaud: is now proposed recommendation
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eprodrom Arnaud: much discussion on what to do next
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eprodrom Arnaud: working group has decided to ask for an extension of the existing charter
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eprodrom Arnaud: not to finish but to give everyone time to experiment with what already exists
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Arnaud ack sandro
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Zakim sandro, you wanted to explain LDP maturity and next
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 bblfish: does LDP specify much as in terms of side effects from incoming data?
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eprodrom sandro: march or april workshop to discuss next version of LDP
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tantek q+ to ask what types of social content are people (e.g. presenters) posting on their websites using LDP? notes? articles? events?
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Zakim sees eprodrom, tantek on the speaker queue
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bblfish so in some sense this Social Web WG would be able to help define what LDP needs next
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eprodrom sandro: has been working on update controls
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cwebber2 or is the protocol more of a distributed database, which is side-effect agnostic?
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eprodrom sandro: need real-time updates
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Arnaud ack eprodrom
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Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
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bblfish 9 implementations of LDP https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html
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tantek bblfish - are they well deployed?
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Arnaud ack tantek
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Zakim unmutes tantek
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim tantek, you wanted to ask what types of social content are people (e.g. presenters) posting on their websites using LDP? notes? articles? events?
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bblfish well if some folks here join, they could be very well deployed :-)
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eprodrom eprodrom: seems like common patterns
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eprodrom tantek: what types of content are currently being posted using LDP?
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eprodrom tantek: are there activity streams types currently being used?
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eprodrom bblfish: building a blogging engine
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eprodrom bblfish: mostly FOAF
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eprodrom http://www.foaf-project.org/
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eprodrom bblfish: also AS, images, videos
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jasnell for my personal blog implementation, I'm starting to use LDP. Using Article, Note, Person, Image, Mention, Post, Respond, Like, Dislike so far
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sandro q+
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Zakim sees sandro on the speaker queue
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eprodrom jasnell: that's interesting!
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eprodrom tantek: other examples have real implementations
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eprodrom tantek: people are posting on their own sites today
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jasnell hoping to have the implementation ready by the face to face, as well as hopefully be able to switch my personal blog over to self-hosted by then
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Arnaud ack sandro
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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jasnell will depend on how much time I have to implement it
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eprodrom sandro: just starting to be implemented
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eprodrom Arnaud: out of time
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eprodrom Arnaud: thanks bblfish for presentation
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eprodrom ditto! Thanks, bblfish!
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eprodrom Arnaud: thanks all for joining!
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bblfish thanks !
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Zakim -jasnell
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cwebber2 wooo \o/
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wilkie thanks!
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cwebber2 happy holidaze
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eprodrom Thanks Arnaud !
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Zakim -Doug_Schepers
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wilkie thanks bblfish
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Zakim -cwebber2
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Zakim -Sandro
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eprodrom Enjoy your holidays folks
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Zakim -bblfish
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Zakim -Arnaud
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Zakim -tantek
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jessica_lily happy holidays!
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cwebber2 and thx for scribing eva
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eprodrom Good times to hack!
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cwebber2 eprodrom:
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Zakim -eprodrom
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Zakim -jessica_lily
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Zakim -rhiaro
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eprodrom cwebber2: thanks for covering me
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Zakim - +1.541.410.aacc
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cwebber2 tried to tab-complete evanpro :)
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cwebber2 np
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tantek thanks everyone.
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Zakim -wilkie
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
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Zakim Attendees were jasnell, Arnaud, +1.514.554.aaaa, eprodrom, cwebber2, rhiaro, Sandro, tantek, +1.541.410.aabb, bblfish, jessica_lily, wilkie, +1.541.410.aacc, Doug_Schepers
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tantek btw for those in the bay area - the last Homebrew Website Club meetup is tomorrow night @MozSF: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club
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Arnaud RRSAgent, draft minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-social-minutes.html Arnaud
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Arnaud trackbot, end meeting
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trackbot is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot Zakim, list attendees
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Zakim sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
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trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-social-minutes.html trackbot
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trackbot RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-social-actions.rdf :
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RRSAgent ACTION: 20 to scheduling for F2F [1]
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RRSAgent recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-social-irc#T18-29-22
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bblfish happy holidays
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tantek happy holidays bblfish! thanks again for the LDP overview.
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bblfish :-) happy holidays too.
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tantek sandro: I created https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17 since I was already in https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg cleaning up notes about the next f2f - hope that's ok and helps get things started for the f2f
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sandro thanks.
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Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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tantek FYI: http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/4265
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tantek and http://www.w3.org/blog/2014/12/opensocial-foundation-moves-standards-work-to-w3c-social-web-activity/
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