#social 2015-01-18

2015-01-18 UTC
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tantek great that he's setup on Known! Known as very good indieweb support.
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tantek looking at https://michielbdejong.com/2015/joining-the-indie-web-my-motivation-cc-by-michiel-de-jong
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elf-pavlik for now I suggested him to play with a rel="http://www.w3.org/ns/hydra/core#collection" href="/following.html">
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tantek really? why?
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elf-pavlik because i don't know microformats well and especially how you do collections there
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elf-pavlik BTW you know that he runs one of https://indiehosters.net/ ?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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tantek I wouldn't bother adding (or recommending to add) any markup unless there is some benefit to the publisher
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elf-pavlik so how do you link from your profile to page with list of your friends?
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tantek why?
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elf-pavlik so i can find list of your friends knowing your profile
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tantek what's the use-case?
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tantek nope, as a human you just click on the link that visually says "friends"
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elf-pavlik i want to see all the friends of my friends having just URLs of my friends
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elf-pavlik as script
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tantek interesting
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tantek do you have such a script now that calls silo APIs to construct friends of friends list?
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elf-pavlik i could use rel="foaf:knows" or rel="schema:knows" but this way I need to have the whole list on the same page, for few thoiusand of friends i want to have this list on separat epage
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tantek in practice you will need to paginate too
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tantek through rel=next links
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elf-pavlik true
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elf-pavlik we will get back on that issue in Hydra CG as next topic
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elf-pavlik also http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-ldp-paging-20140909/
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tantek not really interested in spec-first thinking on those things
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tantek (which LDP tends to be)
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elf-pavlik still i need to link to collection of my friends somehow
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tantek the tools should come first, even if they are using silo APIs or scraping
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elf-pavlik hydra reuses existing predicates introducing simple pattern as described here https://www.w3.org/community/hydra/wiki/Collection_Design
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tantek so we can get experience with *actual* use-case needs
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tantek instead of "I want to … I wish I could …" expressed needs.
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tantek I don't see any citations / documentation of existing real world examples on that page - just proposals
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tantek not interested in proposals without research
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tantek that's typically a highly bad / error-prone methodology
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tantek elf-pavlik: there is some research (some of it may be out of date) for how microformats are used in the wild to markup friends lists here: http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-hcard-supporting-friends-lists
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elf-pavlik here you go: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-hydra/2014Feb/0021.html
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tantek great - let me know when it's the basis of a wiki page
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elf-pavlik and you have pretty much same need attempted to add to withknown https://michielbdejong.com/
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tantek also those look like self-site experiments (selfdogfooding is good)
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tantek but not research of existing practices
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elf-pavlik i found it following ISSUE-41 link from https://www.w3.org/community/hydra/wiki/Collection_Design
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elf-pavlik I'll check out http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-hcard-supporting-friends-lists
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tantek anyway - the collection abstraction is not really necessary in most use-cases
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elf-pavlik how do you then link from your profile to few thousands (or even milions) of followers?
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tantek perhaps you can start documenting how sites do that right now
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tantek e.g. Twitter
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tantek again, without doing the research of actual real world sites, it's mostly a waste of time to propose solutions
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tantek you'll likely end up overdesigning
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elf-pavlik https://dev.twitter.com/rest/reference/get/followers/ids
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tantek right, that's a good start
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elf-pavlik "Returns a cursored collection of user IDs for every user following the specified user."
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elf-pavlik collection + paging
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elf-pavlik https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.2/user/friends/
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tantek exactly, now document that on a wiki page just as we have for their APIs in general, and you start to understand the actual problemspace
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tantek for "how do I get a list of friends"
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tantek which is a building block of what you asked for - "how do I get a list of friends of my friends"
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tantek solve the simpler problem first
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tantek per http://microformats.org/wiki/simpler
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elf-pavlik we have it mentioned on https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Requirements
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elf-pavlik Social network connections ("friends")
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elf-pavlik Read social network connections * Own * Others
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elf-pavlik i guess we should interlink it to our reasearch on existing APIs
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elf-pavlik it will fit well in http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/25
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elf-pavlik i'll just propose it as our first *functional requirement*
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elf-pavlik so we will need to include it in our social api draft anyhow...
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tantek maybe?
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tantek I mean - no one has yet needed that in all the sites and projects that everyone's been building for the indieweb
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tantek not clear it's needed for 1.0
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tantek thus I would reject your assertion "need to include it in our social api draft anyhow…" - insufficient evidence to demonstrate that, if anything, evidence in current projects indicates it is secondary at best.
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tantek goes back to reading https://michielbdejong.com/2015/joining-the-indie-web-my-motivation-cc-by-michiel-de-jong
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elf-pavlik thanks tantek, I go catch some sleep and will check out http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-hcard-supporting-friends-lists
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tantek great - definitely let me know freenode #microformats if you find any problems with that page
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tantek we can fix it together
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tantek (I assume wiki pages have problems of being out of date :) )
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elf-pavlik :)
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elf-pavlik going ZZZzzz...
bblfish, danbri, elf-pavlik, the_frey, jaywink, almereyda, bblfish_, almereyda_, Arnaud, jaensen, the_frey_ and shepazu joined the channel
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rhiaro elf-pavlik: Quick thought on wanting to grab someones indiefriends list - could be useful for vouch
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rhiaro ie. I want to automatically trust everyone you say you trust
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elf-pavlik rhiaro, great idea!
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elf-pavlik !tell tantek that rhiario suggested: indiefriends list could come useful for vouch
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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