#social 2015-04-28

2015-04-28 UTC
bblfish, cwebber2, oshepherd, wilkie, rhiaro, aaronpk, Arnaud, bret, ben_thatmustbeme, kylewm, shepazu, JakeHart, shepazu_, Tsyesika and LCyrin joined the channel
#
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83855&oldid=83813
tilgovi, bblfish and the_frey joined the channel
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83858&oldid=83825
pfefferle joined the channel
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83859&oldid=83827
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83860&oldid=83859
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83861&oldid=83858
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83862&oldid=83860
bblfish joined the channel
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83863&oldid=83861
#
Loqi Pelf made 4 edits to [[Socialwg/Social API/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83868&oldid=83863
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83867&oldid=83862
#
Loqi Pelf made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83870&oldid=83867
bblfish joined the channel
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83871&oldid=83868
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83872&oldid=83871
the_frey_, stevenroose and jaywink joined the channel
#
Loqi Jbreslin made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83873&oldid=83870
bblfish, almereyda, melvster, the_frey, the_frey_, cwebber2 and pfefferle joined the channel
#
Loqi Pelf made 4 edits to [[Socialwg/Social API/User stories/Implementations]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83878&oldid=82559
harry, melvster1, almereyda and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek in reviewing https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-04-28 - there's not a single proposed demo of a specific user story. I'm a bit disappointed after all the exaggerated claims during last week's telecon.
#
tantek pardon, in reviewing the f2f page that is
#
tantek https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-04
#
cwebber2 I put aaronpk on there for micropub and Tsyesika on there for activitypump
#
aaronpk i think the point was to demo specific user stories with the technology, not just demoing the APIs without tying them to a user story
#
Loqi Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83879&oldid=83833
the_frey joined the channel
#
Tsyesika cwebber2: i won't be doing a demo though, i can only speak for what the spec says
#
cwebber2 right, I thought there was going to be tying the API to user stories, but not live demos of the technology running itself
#
sandro And my thinking was not to put them on the agenda, but to be prepared to demo. Like, I'm wondering how step 3 of user-posts-a-note is implemented in MicroPub and pump.io. And when I ask that question at the F2F, I'd be happy to have someone demo, while showing us what goes over the wire.
#
Tsyesika i was under the impression people were demoing but not us as activitypump has no implementations
#
cwebber2 sandro: ++
#
cwebber2 I was under the impression that this was being used as an opportunity to clarify with each other how these spec drafts work, and using the user stories as a basis for those concepts :)
#
Tsyesika i hope it is
#
sandro now that I'm looking at ActivityPump instead of pump.io, I see the answer to my Delete question, btw, with no need for a demo. http://w3c-social.github.io/activitypump/#method-delete
#
cwebber2 I think it would be good to get each person to describe how their api draft works to each other. It's really important that we understand each other on how our drafts work
#
cwebber2 plus, it's motvation for everyone to actually *read each others' drafts* before the meeting.
#
rhiaro +1 reading each other's drafts
#
Tsyesika yeah
#
rhiaro has a veeerrry long bus ride from Edinburgh to Paris
#
aaronpk has a 3-hr train ride from amsterdam to paris
#
Tsyesika i might be printing people's out and reading them on the plane
#
sandro It'd be kind of fun to assign people to review & present (&implement!?) each others drafts.
#
rhiaro yeah I'm going to print everything
#
rhiaro 19 hour bus :p
#
aaronpk wow
#
Tsyesika rhiaro: gosh, that doesn't sound bad
#
rhiaro there's a 2 our break I think it's 19 hours in total
#
Tsyesika *sounds bad
#
rhiaro s/our/hour
#
Tsyesika not doesn't
#
rhiaro seemed like a good idea at the time
#
sandro I wish the solid draft were more complete and organized, but ... hopefully it's enough.
#
Tsyesika rhiaro: that's longer than it took me to get to boston
#
aaronpk I wish the micropub draft were more organized :P
#
rhiaro doesn't like flying
#
Tsyesika me neither, i had a paticulally bad experiance with TSA flying out of the US
#
sandro doesn't like flying OR taking the bus
#
rhiaro I prefer long flights to short ones, and Edi-Paris would be two short ones at four times the cost of the bus, so that was the tradeoff
#
cwebber2 sandro: now THAT might be interesting indeed ;)
#
Tsyesika couldn't you have flown direct from edinbrugh or glasgow?
#
rhiaro Tsyesika: iirc there either wasn't a direct flight or it was way overpriced
#
Tsyesika nods
#
sandro Tsyesika, dare I ask what happened? Or too traumatic?
#
rhiaro I love the Edi-London train but that *is* way overpriced
#
Tsyesika sandro: to explain i'd have to explain some personal stuff i'd rather not but needless to were insulting and unpleasent
#
rhiaro Tsyesika: :( rubbish
#
Tsyesika indeed
#
sandro understood. They can be horrible sometimes. :-(
#
Tsyesika i suspect it was just a few exceptions as the other times they were fine
AnnB joined the channel
#
tantek Tsyesika: sorry to hear that :( - really sucks what has happened to air travel in the past 15 years.
#
tantek sandro: you're more optimistic than me - re: utility of reviewing drafts before demos.
#
AnnB gee rhiaro .. take a pillow, blanket, food! That's a long series of bus rides!
#
AnnB and add'l commiseration with Tyesika over TSA ... blech
#
AnnB it's all about individual humans .. be they police, teachers, colleagues, TSA ... right?
#
AnnB most are decent, just trying to do their best .. some are warped
#
sandro tantek, what failure mode are you anticipating? unimplementable specs?
#
Tsyesika AnnB: indeed, for the most of part it's just a few who give them a bad name
elf-pavlik joined the channel
#
AnnB and then, the people who gives us grief, often had bad experiences in their background that are rippling forward
#
tantek sandro - the same failure mode that has plagued 99% of "social web" standards efforts to date. Lots of talk/email, very little deployment, and of those, often only 1-2 implementations, because the a priori specs were overdesigned and overcomplicated.
#
tantek IMO specs without live demos on the personal sites of the editors of said specs are ignorable at this point.
jasnell joined the channel
#
cwebber2 tantek: we want to write live demos, but want to make sure there's a general ack of the draft of our api first
#
cwebber2 but I agree that this is critical!
#
tantek cwebber2 - I'm not sure that a general ack of a draft is necessary for anything
#
cwebber2 tantek: it's useful for us to not have to redo a bunch of possibly fundamental things based on what the group has agreed on :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme the idea is you will find problems as you build
#
cwebber2 of course we will.
#
cwebber2 I totally get that.
#
tantek cwebber2 - I disagree - implementing is the best way to test spec theories, and reject them sooner rather than later.
#
cwebber2 but this group has already put a lot of constraints on direction for tech
#
tantek has it?
#
tantek who is putting on what constraints?
#
cwebber2 follow your nose is one
#
cwebber2 direction of activitystreams stuff
#
tantek re: follow your nose - ah - are you finding that raises the bar unnecessarily?
#
cwebber2 tantek: it changes the way this works substantially
eprodrom joined the channel
#
eprodrom Hello all!
#
cwebber2 tantek: so I'd like to get that general direction of things cleared
#
tantek the direction of activitystreams is still quite flexible
#
tantek cwebber2 - I see it the other way around - implementations tend to set the general direction of things - not committees of architects
#
cwebber2 tantek: we already have an implementation, and it's pump.io
#
Loqi Pelf made 4 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83883&oldid=83879
#
cwebber2 and a partial one in mediagoblin
#
cwebber2 but
#
cwebber2 we're making adjustments to it
#
cwebber2 based on this group
#
cwebber2 I'd love to get an understanding of what the group finds important
#
ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2: what does follow your nose change for you other than an additional layer of indirection?
#
sandro zakim, who is on the call?
#
tantek cwebber2: my understanding was that was/is only one actual pump.io library implementation
Zakim joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, what conferences?
#
Zakim sees Team_(aria)17:00Z, T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM active
#
Zakim sees in schedule IA_WEBPD()1:00PM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, WAI_PF(Text)1:00PM
#
cwebber2 tantek: mediagoblin implements the pump api
#
cwebber2 and there are many libraries
#
cwebber2 that are clients
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, this is SOCWG
#
Zakim ok, elf-pavlik; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
#
tantek but one server library then?
#
cwebber2 pump.io is just the "canonical verison"
#
cwebber2 tantek: no mediagoblin has an independent implementation
#
Zakim +jasnell
#
cwebber2 it's just incomplete
#
tantek cwebber2: of the server side?
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, code?
#
Zakim saw 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org) given for the conference code, elf-pavlik
#
cwebber2 yes
#
tantek ah that's good to know
#
eprodrom Hey, elf-pavlik, I'd prefer to start the meeting, thanks
#
Zakim +??P14
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, ??P14 is me
#
Zakim +elf-pavlik; got it
#
Zakim + +1.617.247.aabb
#
elf-pavlik elf-pavlik, I didn't start anything :)
#
Zakim +aaronpk
#
eprodrom trackbot, start meeting
#
trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
#
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-social-irc
#
tantek dialing
#
trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
#
RRSAgent I have made the request, trackbot
#
eprodrom elf-pavlik: thanks
#
trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
#
Zakim ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now
#
trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
#
trackbot Date: 28 April 2015
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim sorry, elf-pavlik, I don't know what conference this is
#
ben_thatmustbeme Zakim: aabb is me
#
ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, aabb is me
#
Zakim sorry, ben_thatmustbeme, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, this is SOCWG
#
Zakim ok, elf-pavlik; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
#
Zakim +??P17
#
tantek zakim, ??p17 is me
#
Zakim +tantek; got it
#
elf-pavlik silly trackbot
#
tantek (I think)
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim elf-pavlik should now be muted
#
tantek zakim, mute me
#
Zakim tantek should now be muted
#
ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, aabb is me
#
Zakim +ben_thatmustbeme; got it
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
#
Zakim sees on the phone: Ann, +1.408.335.aaaa, Sandro, Arnaud, jasnell, elf-pavlik (muted), ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, tantek (muted)
#
ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted
#
tantek who is 408?
#
Zakim +cwebber2
#
tantek zakim, unmute me
#
Zakim tantek should no longer be muted
#
Zakim +eprodrom
#
cwebber2 morning
#
KevinMarks I'm 408
#
ben_thatmustbeme i could make it this time, no hospital visit
#
aaronpk Zakim, aaaa is KevinMarks
#
Zakim +KevinMarks; got it
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, unmute me
#
Zakim elf-pavlik should no longer be muted
#
cwebber2 no hospital visits is usually good, ben_thatmustbeme !
#
Zakim +??P20
#
rhiaro Zakim, ??P20 is me
#
Zakim +rhiaro; got it
#
rhiaro Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim rhiaro should now be muted
#
tantek zakim, KevinMarks is aaaa
#
tantek oops
#
Zakim +aaaa; got it
#
jasnell ann: just sent you a note, I'm free to chat this afternoon if you want to give me a call
#
ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2, the wife started going in to pre-term labor
#
AnnB got it; I responded .. sounds good
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, code?
#
Zakim saw 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org) given for the conference code, elf-pavlik
#
cwebber2 socl indeed :)
#
sandro Zakim, what is the code?
#
Zakim the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, what conferences?
#
Zakim I see Team_(aria)17:00Z, T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM active
#
Zakim also scheduled at this time are IA_WEBPD()1:00PM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, WAI_PF(Text)1:00PM
#
sandro RRSAgent, pointer?
#
RRSAgent See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-social-irc#T17-04-26
#
Zakim +??P24
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim elf-pavlik should now be muted
#
Tsyesika Zakim, ??P24 is me
#
Zakim +Tsyesika; got it
#
Tsyesika Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim Tsyesika should now be muted
#
eprodrom Zakim, who is on the call?
#
Zakim On the phone I see Ann, aaaa, Sandro, Arnaud, jasnell, elf-pavlik (muted), ben_thatmustbeme (muted), aaronpk, tantek, cwebber2, eprodrom, rhiaro (muted), Tsyesika (muted)
#
Zakim +bblfish
#
bblfish hi
#
AnnB scribe: AnnB
#
eprodrom scribenick: AnnB
#
eprodrom scribe: AnnB
#
rhiaro think I read in the docs both work
#
Arnaud I never figured the difference between these two
AdamB joined the channel
#
Zakim + +1.314.777.aacc
#
AdamB Zakim, AdamB is aacc
#
Zakim sorry, AdamB, I do not recognize a party named 'AdamB'
#
eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-04-21-minutes
harry joined the channel
#
AnnB approve minutes from 21 April
#
tantek +1 LGTM
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: approve minutes ffor 21 April
#
eprodrom +1
#
cwebber2 +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
elf-pavlik +1
#
rhiaro +1
#
aaronpk +1
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: approve minutes ffor 21 April
#
AnnB resolved to approve
#
bblfish +1
#
harry Zakim, code?
#
Zakim the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), harry
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ann (22%), Sandro (4%), eprodrom (91%)
#
AnnB Evan: NO regular telecon next week, as F2F will be in Paris
#
tantek 12th
#
Zakim +harry
#
AnnB ... next telecon will be 12 May
#
harry Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim harry should now be muted
#
AnnB Evan: agenda for F2F, next week (4 and 5 May) ...
#
AnnB .. do we have outstanding issues for that meeting?
#
harry q+
#
Zakim sees harry on the speaker queue
#
AnnB Arnaud: not that I know
#
AnnB ... but, what about food?
#
harry Zakim, unmute me
#
Zakim harry should no longer be muted
#
AnnB Sandro: no food provided, but Paris does not lack for cafes
#
harry ack harry
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
AnnB Harry: location is INRIA's office
#
Loqi Jsnell made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83885&oldid=83873
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83886&oldid=83885
#
AnnB .. south side of Paris
#
elf-pavlik +1 securing food :)
#
AnnB ... will put up signs to room
#
AnnB ... probably coffee
#
AnnB ... no food
#
AnnB Sandro: looking at email from <someone> ..
#
AnnB .. breakfast can be delivered for a price .. not lunch
#
AnnB ... one must pay on their own
#
AnnB Harry: yes, will be there
#
elf-pavlik harry can you update your participation on wiki page?
tilgovi joined the channel
#
tantek +1 glad to hear you'll be there Harry
#
AnnB Evan: great participation; ~19 people
#
AnnB ... worse things than having to go out to lunch in Paris
#
tantek zakim, mute me
#
Zakim tantek should now be muted
#
AnnB +1
#
harry W3C should support its Working Groups. I'll ask MIT re coffee and food today, no help from ERCIM despite EC funding this effort but I can ask again.
#
Arnaud I'd imagine small cookies...
#
KevinMarks go out to lunch and breakfast, people
#
AnnB Sandro: if anyoen can fund food, send me email pronto
#
AnnB +1 KevinMarks
#
AnnB haha
#
AnnB Evan: agenda filling out
#
eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-04
#
AnnB ... chairs need to do final organizing
#
harry However, yes worse fates than eating lunch or having coffee in Paris.
#
AnnB ... last F2F we ran out of time on some important items
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
AnnB ... so let's prioritize this time
#
AnnB Evan: Outstanding Issues and Actions
#
eprodrom http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open
#
AnnB .. any of those ready to be closed?
#
eprodrom http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/open
#
harry Let's not walk through them one by one
#
eprodrom http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/raised
#
AnnB ... <no one speaks?
#
harry if there are no updates - but everyone should check.
#
AnnB s/speaks?/speaks>/
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
AnnB Evan: Activity Streams vs LDP Collection and paging structure raised this week
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (13%), jasnell (9%), harry (10%)
#
tantek issue-37
#
trackbot is looking up issue-37.
#
trackbot issue-37 -- LDP & AS2.0 paging alignment -- raised
#
trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/37
#
eprodrom http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/37
#
jasnell -0
#
elf-pavlik +1
#
tantek -0 (don't understand why it's relevant)
#
harry The larger question is probably if we have to chose between backwards compatibility with ActivityStreams and LDP, which do we do?
#
AnnB ... I'd like to propose this Issue be Opened
#
AnnB jasnell: -0 because we don't have concrete proposal on table
#
harry My guess it would depend it on the number of ActivityStreams 1.0 deployments out there vs. number of LDP deployments.
#
bblfish q+
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
AnnB ... LDP paging relatively new; no implementations
#
KevinMarks there's a McDonalds across the street http://imgur.com/KvOwzg1 ;)
#
harry So answering that empirically is probably right way IMHO
#
tantek +1 to jasnell's reasoning
#
rhiaro KevinMarks -1 :p
#
AnnB .. opening it is maybe OK, but ..
#
sandro +1 jasnell let's wait until there's a concrete proposal for changing AS2
#
aaronpk "iconic fast food" lol
#
tantek rhiaro McDonald's has free wifi
#
bblfish I added SoLiD to the https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-04#Evaluation_of_API_Candidates
#
eprodrom +1
#
elf-pavlik q+ re: do we need concrete proposal to OPEN raised issue?
#
Zakim sees bblfish, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
AnnB Evan: IMO if we have issue that's pertinent, better to open it in order to have discussion
#
eprodrom ack bblfish
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
rhiaro tantek I'll have 3g, so that's not persuasive enough
#
AnnB ... even if we need to close it
#
KevinMarks this would eb a better choice - thanks foursquare: https://foursquare.com/v/la-butte-aux-piafs/51d2d6d8498e1573c8e26a94
#
sandro q?
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
AnnB bblfish: question of seeking compromise for both LD and JSON communities
#
AnnB ... I need to understand more about JSON-LD, for example
#
Arnaud I do like the way LDP Paging separates paging from the data by using headers but this is a fairly significant change
#
Loqi Eprodrom made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83887&oldid=83883
#
Loqi Aboyet made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83889&oldid=83887
#
Loqi Bblfish made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83890&oldid=83889
#
eprodrom SoLiD
#
ben_thatmustbeme SoLiD
#
AnnB Evan: question: is this an issue for us, if a SoLiD API is one of the outputs of this grouip
#
harry q+
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik, harry on the speaker queue
#
harry My guess would be some parts of SoLID might go into the Social API or ActivityStreams 2.0, but not all of it.
#
tantek AnnB - I think it stands for "So"cial "Li"nked "D"ata
#
harry (There is BTW, no such thing as a false graph in RDF)
#
AnnB bblfish: point is not to tie AS to LDP at this point, but to figure out the minimal RDF
#
harry And "really doing RDF" is not a requirement in this WG BTW
#
AnnB ... not inferencing, etc
#
jasnell q+
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik, harry, jasnell on the speaker queue
#
AnnB ... just merging 2 graphs ... which I think is done correctly in LDP paging spec
#
harry There are probably a number of different ways to define "really doing RDF" :)
#
tantek harry - exactly - I don't understand this at all
#
jasnell btw, look at http://dandus.mybluemix.net/r/ for an example of AS2 + paging links in the HTTP headers
#
AnnB ... can think about how could that be done in JSON-LD
#
harry I don't think it's really important but happy for it to be an open issue.
#
sandro I thinks it's time for the chairs to re-assert their authority to decide which issues to open, because they're worth the time of the WG
#
Arnaud every issue we open adds to our workload
#
tantek sandro agreed
#
eprodrom ack elf-pavlik
#
Zakim unmutes elf-pavlik
#
AnnB Evan: asks queue to focus on question about opening this issue, NOT the technical merits of this and that
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss do we need concrete proposal to OPEN raised issue?
#
Zakim sees harry, jasnell on the speaker queue
#
harry q- harry
#
Zakim sees jasnell on the speaker queue
#
tantek I'm still not convinced, I've only heard a bunch of plumbing-specific reasoning.
#
tantek hence still -0
#
jasnell ah... nevermind, looks like that deployed version has the headers switched off ;-)
#
sandro -0.5 to opening this issue. Let's not make up work for ourselves. If there's a problem, THEN raise the issue.
#
harry Anyways, re the giant collection of possibly unused technolgies we could discuss, l suggest that someone just take homework looking for implementations.
#
tantek "as a placeholder"?!? no that's a horrible idea
#
tantek sandro - that's a good way of puttin git
#
harry So, for Webfinger, does anyone still support it?
#
AnnB elf-pavlik: I support opening the issue
#
tantek changing my answer to -0.5
#
harry Ditto LDP paging
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim elf-pavlik should now be muted
#
eprodrom harry, pump.io does
#
aaronpk agreed with "if there's a problem, then raise the issue"
#
harry Yep, exactly.
#
AnnB ... do not need to have clear resolution before opening
#
harry That's the kinds of data-points we need to make decisions.
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees jasnell on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom ack jasnell
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
AnnB jasnell: back to RDF and merging of graphs..
#
tantek this seems like a "might be a problem" issue, not an *actual* issue - thus I'm starting to lean towards rejecting
#
harry I am not sure if we want to get deluged in open issues.
#
AnnB .. 1) we're not dealing with RDF
#
AnnB ... yes, someone might use RDF for modeling, but not a requirement
#
harry So at some point, we might want to tighten raising issues. Typically, I'm happy to give the Editor discretion in opening most issues.
#
AnnB ... but what is the issue? not clear
#
tantek agreed with jasnell
#
AnnB ... need better definition
#
AnnB ... what does not work in current model?
#
AnnB ... in JSON what does not work
#
bblfish q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
bblfish https://blogs.oracle.com/bblfish/entry/crystalizing_rdf
#
AnnB bblfish: hard to answer right now; could do on email
#
tantek many of us do not care about doing RDF
#
AnnB ... those who are doing RDF could use it
#
tantek so it is inaccurate to express "we are doing RDF" for the group
#
harry RSS 1.1 was not exactly an amazing success story :)
#
KevinMarks we're doing pure JSON with a way for RDF to be created from it
#
AnnB ... trying to find compromise that satisfies multiple communities
#
KevinMarks RSS 3 got more adoption than RSS 1.1
#
tantek has this affected any implementations? or spec language?
#
AnnB ... <scribe missed who / what .. divergent ways of modeling>
#
tantek AnnB - that was bblfish
#
Arnaud I think this is primarily a design style issue
#
harry I agree we should respect the divergence if it has implementation impact (I don't count ontology differences, given one side doesn't use one, as an implementation impact)
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: open issue 37
#
elf-pavlik +1
#
eprodrom +1
#
bblfish +1
#
aaronpk issue-37
#
trackbot is looking up issue-37.
#
trackbot issue-37 -- LDP & AS2.0 paging alignment -- raised
#
trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/37
#
wilkie +1
#
tantek -0.5 per Sandro's reasoning, and jasnell 's reasoning
#
Tsyesika +1
#
cwebber2 +1
#
AnnB yes, tantek .. I think I started with bblfish at beginning of that sequence
#
ben_thatmustbeme 0
#
rhiaro 0
#
sandro -0 it's probably a waste of time at this point
#
aaronpk -0 per sandro's reasoning
#
tantek group's time is limited, and issues not affecting a specific implementation or spec should not be opened
#
tantek let's get better at raising *specific* concrete issues
#
harry we must have more important things to talk about on the agenda :)
#
harry scribenick: harry
#
bblfish ok I'll do
#
harry I'll step in
#
bblfish ok harry
#
elf-pavlik harry++
#
Loqi harry has 11 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme scribe: harry
#
harry evanp: ISSUE opened.
#
tantek didn't see a response from jasnell
#
jasnell I'm still -0
#
tantek either way, no difference, no objection.
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
#
Zakim sees on the phone: Ann, aaaa, Sandro, Arnaud, jasnell, elf-pavlik (muted), ben_thatmustbeme (muted), aaronpk, tantek (muted), cwebber2, eprodrom, rhiaro (muted), Tsyesika (muted),
#
AnnB CAN SOMEONE TYPE>>> KEYBOARD WENT BAD (SORRY)
#
Zakim ... bblfish, +1.314.777.aacc, harry
#
eprodrom AnnB: harry is going to step in
#
eprodrom scribe: harry
#
harry I'm scribing
#
harry I am waiting for something significant to be said :)
#
wilkie scribenick??
#
harry eprodrom: Deadline for today to get Social API candidates ready for review
#
bblfish RESOLVED: Issue37 opened
#
harry its been done wilike
#
elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-04#Evaluation_of_API_Candidates
#
wilkie ooh ok
#
harry ... the intention was to have SoLID, Pump.io, and Micropub ready to discuss
#
sandro q+
#
Zakim sees sandro on the speaker queue
#
harry ... any updates?
#
Tsyesika we do, it's https://w3c-social.github.io/activitypump/
#
cwebber2 eprodrom: Tsyesika doesn't have a working mic today fyi
#
Tsyesika (sorry i don't have my mic)
#
elf-pavlik Tsyesika++
#
Loqi Tsyesika has 7 karma
#
tantek aside: eprodrom are we ignoring raised issues 18, 20, 25?
#
harry The link to the Pump.io spec is old in the wiki, update real quick?
#
harry evprodrom: We have a working review
#
cwebber2 Tsyesika++
#
Loqi Tsyesika has 8 karma
#
elf-pavlik enough fiddling with tracker for today ;)
#
tantek ok
#
harry eprodrom: Let's set-up for evaluation of API candidates - do we have a micropub-based proposal?
#
aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
#
elf-pavlik aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 786 karma
#
harry aaronpk: I'll do another pass on it today but its ready for review
#
sandro https://github.com/linkeddata/SoLiD
#
harry sandro: SoLID is not as polished as we like, but it's feature complete
#
harry eprodrom: All up and ready to discuss
#
harry eprodrom: Linked to Hydra and Linked Data Fragments
#
elf-pavlik i'll demo at least Hydra
#
harry ... note that neither of those are there.
#
elf-pavlik q+
#
Zakim sees sandro, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
harry q+
#
Zakim sees sandro, elf-pavlik, harry on the speaker queue
#
harry ... so part of our resolution was to stick to these three
#
eprodrom ack sandro
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik, harry on the speaker queue
#
rhiaro I thought sticking with the list was until another demo came forward?
#
harry ... unless it's a real 'going to blow us away' not sure if we should leave these open
#
sandro q-
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik, harry on the speaker queue
#
Tsyesika I thought new candidates could be accepted later if they could demo?
#
eprodrom ack elf-pavlik
#
Zakim unmutes elf-pavlik
#
Zakim sees harry on the speaker queue
the_frey joined the channel
#
tantek q+ to note that we did leave the door open at the last f2f for more demos as a way to introduce additional API candidates.
#
Zakim sees harry, tantek on the speaker queue
#
harry So, let's remove them from candidates
#
Arnaud I agree with Evan's take on this
#
harry elf-pavlik: We don't have a query langugae
#
Arnaud we need to further narrow the scope, not widen it :)
#
harry ... they are not competing not complimentary
#
harry q- harry
#
Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
#
harry eprodrom: Remove them from list, put them on another section
#
harry ... if time for them being discussed, let's do that.
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim elf-pavlik should now be muted
#
eprodrom ack tantek
#
Zakim unmutes tantek
#
Zakim tantek, you wanted to note that we did leave the door open at the last f2f for more demos as a way to introduce additional API candidates.
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
harry +1 narrow focus
#
cwebber2 ah, tantek is right, I forgot about that
#
harry tantek: We did leave it open, and we would need a demo of specific user-stories
#
harry q+
#
Zakim sees harry on the speaker queue
#
harry My opinion is that we'll add them to candidates at f2f if we cover user-stories with those technologies.
#
Zakim +Sandro.a
#
Zakim -Sandro
#
harry ... just make sure they actually cover user-stories
#
elf-pavlik Additional Candidates[edit]
#
elf-pavlik (if time allows and have demos for existing user stories)
#
harry q- harry
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
harry eprodrom: The most important thing is for people remotely participating and to read over the documents
#
tantek just trying to reflect what the group agreed there - like I said, not my preference, but that was the group consensus.
#
harry ... everyone should have some notes on each document
#
harry ... be prepared to address them.
#
harry ... do we have for each one for notes to be submitted?
#
harry q+
#
Zakim sees harry on the speaker queue
#
elf-pavlik https://github.com/linkeddata/SoLiD/issues
#
Tsyesika open issues? :)
#
elf-pavlik https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/issues
#
harry The others are on github
#
harry q- harry
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
harry +1 github
#
elf-pavlik https://github.com/w3c-social/activitypump/issues
#
tantek or you could post on your own site feedback about Micropub and send a webmention ;)
#
harry notes we'll be moving ActivityStreams and its testing to W3C github's account.
#
elf-pavlik could everyone add those link to F2F wiki?
#
aaronpk i will definitely read those :)
#
cwebber2 promises to read all documents!
#
Loqi Bblfish made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83891&oldid=83890
#
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-05-04]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83892&oldid=83891
#
harry eprodrom: any other API discussions?
#
tantek zakim, mute me
#
Zakim tantek should now be muted
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
harry ... thanks to everyone who has taken up agenda
#
harry eprodrom: lots of agenda
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: harry (4%)
#
harry AnnB, does your keyboard work now?
#
harry topic: test-suite status
#
AnnB not really >>
#
AnnB getting weird chars
#
AnnB i can type some< but wonky
#
harry you probably switched your "keyboard input mode,"I suggest re-setting if you don't know how to switch your keyboard input mode.
#
harry jasnell: We have W3C github accounts set up by harry
#
AnnB e>g> can"t type slash
#
cwebber2 woooo!
#
harry ... IBM gave us approvals, we should have test-suite on github
#
harry ... J.P is moving it out
#
Zakim sees harry on the speaker queue
#
harry q+
#
harry ... we will look to community to fill it out
#
harry Does J.P. have a github ID?
#
harry Or does it go via you?
#
harry (either is fine)
#
tantek come back AnnB!
#
harry topic: Simplifying audience we're addressing
#
elf-pavlik q+
#
Zakim sees harry, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
tantek summary?
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
ben_thatmustbeme can't really hear
#
Tsyesika i can't hear ><.<
#
Tsyesika * >.<
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: harry (96%)
#
tantek stops shuffling papers
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute harry
#
Zakim harry should now be muted
#
harry Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim harry was already muted, harry
#
tantek realizes he was already muted ;)
#
harry hmmm weird
#
harry I guess my MIT phone must have issues.
#
tantek harry must be the feds bugging it.
#
harry jasnell: Can we simplify the issues?
#
elf-pavlik q?
#
Zakim sees harry, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom ack harry
#
Zakim unmutes harry
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
elf-pavlik ok
#
elf-pavlik https://github.com/w3c/modern-tooling
#
harry Just noting that *anyone* can do pull requests
#
elf-pavlik q?
#
Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
#
elf-pavlik q-
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
harry but that W3C Social editors are in charge of approving push/merge
#
harry jasnell: mismatch between icons and the rel attribute
#
harry Zkaim, mute me
#
harry ... for the most part, I'm +1
#
harry s/+1/+0
#
elf-pavlik https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/100
#
harry ... I see it as a simplifications
#
harry ... parallels with atom link and links in html
#
harry ... point it can be confusing
#
Zakim +Ann_Bassetti
#
harry ... difference between property name
#
harry ... remove 'rel'
#
harry ... use the property name as link relationship
#
elf-pavlik +1
#
Zakim -Ann
#
harry eprodrom: We will have other encodings using IETF link relationships
#
harry ... HTTP headers, etc.
#
tantek HTML5 does not use IETF link relations, FWIW
#
harry ... HTML6
#
elf-pavlik HTML5 uses microformats link relations
#
bblfish q+
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
harry s/HTML6/WebFinger
#
tantek W3C formats have settled on microformats link relations
#
elf-pavlik https://github.com/mnot/I-D/issues/39
#
tantek and informally last week I asked Mark Nottingham if HTTP2 could use microformats link relations and he said sure
#
jasnell the status quo is that "rel" must be compliant to both IETF link relations and HTML5 link relations
cwebber2 joined the channel
#
harry ... the whole point is to have 'rel'
#
KevinMarks cite for evan: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/links.html#other-link-types
#
harry ... I see no reason to remove
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
jasnell I'm -+0 to the proposal to remove "rel"
#
tantek I'm still not sure how as:Link works, but am a moderate fan of rel
#
bblfish https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/98#issuecomment-94702056
#
eprodrom ack bblfish
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
tantek note that link relations predate Atom - started in HTML long before that
#
harry bblfish: If you look at link relationships, on what element does the title come?
#
jasnell I'm definitely -1 on removing as:Link
#
harry ... so as I argued that if you do a mapping from link relationships to an ontology where I modelled it (Atom-OWL)
#
harry ... there's not many ways you can do this correctly
#
harry ... map to RDF Reification
#
elf-pavlik notices that we have all this information already on mailing list and in github issue
#
harry ... the link relationship is just a reified relation
#
harry ... so you can transform it into a relationship
#
harry ... so its a big simplificiation
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
tantek wow I have no idea how to process the thread at https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/100 nor what problem it is trying to solve.
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ann_Bassetti (19%), jasnell (4%)
#
harry hehe
#
tantek is that what happens when you use JSON instead of HTML to do an <a href rel> ?
#
harry should probably be a single way to do rel, but I think we have that in terms of as:Link
#
tantek is anyone consuming as:Link ?
#
jasnell -1 to removing as:Link
#
harry eprodrom: Is there a way to remove as:Link with less pressure?
#
aaronpk what is as:Link for?
#
elf-pavlik +1 removing as:Link
#
harry -1 to removing as:Link
#
tantek zakim, unmute me
#
Zakim tantek should no longer be muted
#
elf-pavlik http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#link
#
tantek if pump.io is using as:Link, that's a strong argument to keeping it
AnnB joined the channel
#
harry jasnell: as:Link sets up a qualified linked relationship
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
harry ... I can include the note object
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ann_Bassetti (9%)
#
cwebber2 0 on removing as:link ;)
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, mute Ann_Bassetti
#
Zakim Ann_Bassetti should now be muted
#
harry ... right there or I can describe a link to that note
#
elf-pavlik AnnB ok with mute?
#
harry ... the difference is that the title may be different
#
KevinMarks I have just been adding mf2 rel parsing to universal feed parser, so that link's in the body with rels end up in the parsed collection of lnks
#
Arnaud elf: a bit late to ask :)
#
AnnB yes, sorry .. had to dial in on mobile while I rebooted .. almost back
#
harry ... two different references have different metadatas
#
AnnB arnaud .. haha
#
elf-pavlik Arnaud i would unmute right away, and didn't mute AnnB till she appeared on IRC!
#
AnnB I do not have a barking dog, however
#
tantek zakim, who is barking?
#
Zakim I don't understand your question, tantek.
#
eprodrom Dog?
#
harry ... maybe what is described is reference to object
#
eprodrom tantek++
#
Loqi tantek has 182 karma
#
harry ... if you break the document into triples
#
elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
#
harry ... if you don't have as:Link, metadata steps all over each other
#
Zakim elf-pavlik, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: jasnell (12%), aaronpk (41%), tantek (4%)
#
ben_thatmustbeme stops barking... sorry
#
Zakim +Ann.a
#
Zakim -Ann_Bassetti
#
harry jasnell: Description of reference
#
KevinMarks I have 3 dogs with me but they aren't barking and I'm muted
#
tantek aaronpk: does that mean the URL provides the canonical information?
#
harry ... so you don't want to duplicate that URL data on all the types
#
bblfish q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
bblfish q+
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
harry eprodrom: Would you have to duplicate?
#
harry jasnell: it's the same as links in Atom
#
harry ... same as anchor tag
#
aaronpk s/eprodrom/aaronpk
#
harry sorry aaronpk, you guys sound a bit alike!
#
eprodrom heh
#
harry ... as:Link allows you describe the reference
#
harry aaronpk: it allows you to describe the reference
#
harry jasnell: I'm against removing as:Link
#
KevinMarks if you're having links, rels clarify them
#
harry tantek: Keeping rel and Link would allow you to keep easier compatibility with HTML
#
harry ... more compatibility with what is on web
#
Zakim -tantek
#
harry q?
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
tantek q?
#
Zakim sees bblfish on the speaker queue
#
harry ack bblfish
#
eprodrom ack bblfish
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
harry bblfish: This is a modelling discussion
#
eprodrom This will be the end of our discussion, btw
#
jasnell I'm fine with keeping rel. But some folks have problems with it so I put the proposal on the table to see where the consensus is
#
Zakim +??P11
#
harry ... since it's just a reificiation, then you lose a lot from leaving it out
#
tantek zakim, ??p11 is me
#
Zakim +tantek; got it
#
bblfish https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/100#issuecomment-95253148
#
harry ... I propose one can do it
#
harry ... see graphics on that page
#
elf-pavlik I can prepare clear diagrams and exmaples of the issue for F2F (or compile existing ones spread across mailing list and gh issue)
#
harry ... relationships to alternates of that
#
tantek what's the problem that the example is trying to solve?
#
harry ... blank node, too complex for a telecon
#
harry tantek, I think bblfish is trying to figure out how to map it in a way he likes to an ontology
#
tantek what's the real world problem that needs discussing blank nodes?
#
harry he is assuming you are using RDF. The 'real world problem' is unclear to me as well
#
tantek harry - I'm having difficulty understanding all the architecture diagrams unrelated to a specific real world publishing problem.
#
elf-pavlik including issues with as:Link instances included as items of as:Collection
#
tantek but I'll keep reading
#
AnnB OK, I'm back .. can scribe again
#
harry In general, reificiation is not even recommended in RDF.
#
AnnB but kind of lost the thread of the convo
#
harry scribenick: AnnB
#
harry scribe: AnnB
#
harry its all yours AnnB - good luck following the current discussion!
#
AnnB bblfish: I think I'm OK w removing the REL, but should be worked offline
#
AnnB Evan: nearing end of meeting; how to proceed?
#
tantek I'd rather keep compat with the simple HTML model of publishing and hyperlinks.
#
AnnB ... suggest leaving it up to editor to continue
#
AnnB ... proposals on guidance to editor?
#
tantek PROPOSAL: keep AS2 compat with HTML <a href rel type>
#
harry q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
AnnB ... other prposals?
#
tantek (based on compat with existing publishing practices)
#
cwebber2 0
#
eprodrom +1
#
AnnB s/prposals/proposals/
#
bblfish I am not sure I understand that proposal
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
tantek +1
#
AnnB Evan: not closing this; just giving guidance
#
KevinMarks +1
#
AnnB ... it's up to the editor
#
aaronpk +1
#
bblfish I am for working on these arguments more closely.
#
AnnB ... asks elf-pavlik and bblfish for opinions
#
elf-pavlik we need to develop little more common understanding
#
harry i.e. rejecting elf-pavlik's suggestion to drop
#
AnnB ... on proposal as written by tantek
#
harry Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim harry should now be muted
#
elf-pavlik i have impression that some people might have not read or understand http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#link
#
AnnB ... <someone> points out that is status quo
#
AnnB bblfish: no opinion; just think the discussion isn't over
#
bblfish -0
#
AnnB Evan: I agree re: discussion; just trying to wrap up for today
#
AnnB ... looks like all +1 and 0 ..
#
tantek so RESOLVED?
#
elf-pavlik -0 without as:Link and as:rel we still stay compat with HTML
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: keep AS2 compat with HTML <a href rel type>
#
harry Seems keeping compatibility with Atom makes sense to me
#
AnnB Evan: thanks everyoen
#
AnnB s/everyoen/everyone/
#
Zakim -jasnell
#
Zakim - +1.314.777.aacc
#
Zakim -aaronpk
#
Zakim -bblfish
#
Arnaud just close the call with trackbot
#
Zakim -aaaa
#
harry chairs - time to go over f2f logistics
#
eprodrom Zakim who is on the call?
#
cwebber2 thanks all
#
harry trackbot, end meeting
#
trackbot is ending a teleconference.
#
trackbot Zakim, list attendees
#
Zakim -Tsyesika
#
Zakim As of this point the attendees have been Ann, +1.408.335.aaaa, Sandro, Arnaud, jasnell, elf-pavlik, +1.617.247.aabb, aaronpk, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme, cwebber2, eprodrom, rhiaro,
#
Zakim ... aaaa, Tsyesika, bblfish, +1.314.777.aacc, harry, Ann_Bassetti
#
Zakim -ben_thatmustbeme
#
Zakim -cwebber2
#
Arnaud that won't kick us out
#
trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
#
RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-social-minutes.html trackbot
#
trackbot RRSAgent, bye
#
RRSAgent I see no action items
#
elf-pavlik i encourage everyone to check links on agenda to the topics we didn't manage get to in this call!
#
Arnaud one can always count on harry not to follow protocol :)
#
eprodrom Zakim, who is on the call?
#
Zakim On the phone I see Arnaud, elf-pavlik (muted), eprodrom, rhiaro (muted), harry (muted), Sandro.a, Ann.a, tantek
#
Zakim -rhiaro
#
elf-pavlik yes
#
eprodrom elf-pavlik: would you mind freeing up the line?
#
harry usually we do it before but we had some timing issues
#
elf-pavlik just need to unlock screen of other computer i use for voice
#
Zakim -elf-pavlik
#
tantek zakim, who is on the call?
#
Zakim On the phone I see Arnaud, eprodrom, harry (muted), Sandro.a, Ann.a, tantek
#
Arnaud we should change irc channel
#
harry Zakim, unmute me
#
Zakim harry should no longer be muted
jasnell, jasnell_, stevenroose and bblfish joined the channel
#
harry Zakim, mute me
#
Zakim harry should now be muted
#
Zakim -eprodrom
#
Zakim -Sandro.a
#
Zakim -Arnaud
#
Zakim -Ann.a
#
Zakim -tantek
#
Zakim -harry
#
Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
#
Zakim Attendees were Ann, +1.408.335.aaaa, Sandro, Arnaud, jasnell, elf-pavlik, +1.617.247.aabb, aaronpk, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme, cwebber2, eprodrom, rhiaro, aaaa, Tsyesika, bblfish,
#
Zakim ... +1.314.777.aacc, harry, Ann_Bassetti
tilgovi and almereyda joined the channel
#
melvster a blank node is just a collection of key/value pairs
#
melvster e.g. "a large, striped, cat with big teeth'
#
melvster but not referring to any specific tiger
#
melvster there's two schools of thought: one that this kind of statement is not needed, the other that it can be useful sometimes ... originally I was in the first camp, but over time I've seen it can be useful, tho I personally try to avoid it
#
melvster harry is right, it's probably too complex a topic for a telecon, because it borders on metaphysics
#
tantek lol
#
melvster "an unamed thing"
#
tantek that's a horrible name for an unnamed thing ;)
#
melvster yes!
#
melvster someone once said it is the job of the intellectual to see, to identify and to name ... but some argue that not everything can be named ... it makes for long debates
#
rhiaro that sounds out of scope for socialwg :p
harry and bblfish joined the channel
#
melvster rhiaro: yes, it's already standardized long ago, just giving a summary of what exists already
#
melvster in JSON it's simply a set of key value pairs, without an @id ... not really complicated technically
#
melvster most APIs you see will be like this
#
melvster there's just a debate on whether or not it's a best practice
#
rhiaro melvster: I mean philosophising about naming is out of scope, tongue in cheek
#
melvster rhiaro: all standards work amounts to philosophizing about naming, and cache invalidation :P
#
rhiaro definitely trying to avoid that around these parts :)
#
melvster specifications are about naming
melvster joined the channel
#
Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
the_frey, tilgovi_ and bblfish joined the channel