#social 2015-07-20

2015-07-20 UTC
bblfish, jasnell, jaywink, bigbluehat, tessierashpool_, bret, JakeHart, the_frey, the_frey_, ElijahLynn, dwhly, melvster, tantek and tilgovi joined the channel
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melvster jasnell: :) http://gitpay.org/jasnell
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melvster as far as I know that's the biggest federated linked social graph on the web ... it might be the biggest open source social graph too
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melvster im pretty sure it's the only one of any size that adheres to web standards
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melvster just something i put together over the weekend, ill be building it out more this week
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jasnell nice
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melvster bblfish: here's you http://gitpay.org/bblfish ... you can tell your IETF pals that there's over 1 million webids out there now ... :)
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melvster jasnell: I added turtle support last night, activity streams type profiles is on my list
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melvster then ill be implementing AS 2.0 and inboxes
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melvster to create economies for github repos
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melvster my biggest challenge at the moment is how to get a *partial* list of activities from an activity stream ... i suspect this is going to be a common challenge
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jasnell +1 ... yes, there needs to be a filtering mechanism
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melvster jasnell: my current thoughts are ... sometimes ill need to filter by time (e.g. 1 hour, 1 day) ... sometimes ill need to filter by volume (eg 10 posts 25 posts) ... sometimes ill need to filter relatively (eg show me unread, show me posts since X) ...
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melvster sometimes i may want everything, sometimes ill need pagination
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melvster or the server will want to paginate
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melvster the github api ive just been using has a number and an page offset as input parameters ... that seems quite common
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melvster so page 1, 100 entries
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melvster facebook outgrew that kind of API and are using more of a query language
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melvster graphQL
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melvster also sometimes activities need filtering, on a specific topic, user or set of users
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jasnell_ yes, there are several possible options, what we really need are more implementers to experiment with the various options and figure out what works best
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melvster jasnell_: yes doing that now ... tho I also have the luxury of sparql so we have a full standards quality query language if needed ... but i think named query style apis will work for many heuristics
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bblfish mevster: I did not end up going to Prague. It's too much time to go there and the entrance fee is 750 euros or such
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Loqi bblfish: elf-pavlik left you a message 2 weeks, 1 day ago: i remember that your implementation stores both: document with data and ACL for it on the file system, where do you store (persist) triple with rel="acl" which later you include in HTTP Header? http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-07-05/line/1436103836744
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bblfish also apparently it's really hot in Prague right now
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melvster bblfish: overcast ... do you think I should try and meet some IETF people?
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melvster 750 euro, pretty expensive
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bblfish you can try to go to watch I suppose... it's always worth meeting people, though I think it helps if you are following a particular topic in great detail.
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bblfish Loqi: tell elf-pavlick that it's all explained https://github.com/read-write-web/rww-play/wiki/Curl-Interactions
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bblfish Loqi, tell elf-pavlick that it's all explained https://github.com/read-write-web/rww-play/wiki/Curl-Interactions
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melvster bblfish: ill keep my ears open ... the hilton is next to where I swim ... I find the IETF folks a bit stand offish sometimes, I wonder how much they are interested in the decentralized web, seems to me like not a lot ... we'll see if there's anyone in particular I should meet ill drop them a mail
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bblfish a generic mail of that sort to the list would not go down well, it would be seen as spam more than anything else I bet
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melvster bblfish: yeah I know, I wasnt intended to mail the list ... tho I wouldnt have a problem with it, there's so much spam on there anyway :) ... just if there's any person that can help us, maybe I can take them for a coffee ... i get discounts in good places :)
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melvster but actually i cant really think of anyone in the ietf that overlaps with the social web
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bblfish if one has a specific requirement then it's the right place to go
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melvster id dont want to pay 750 euro ... ill try and find out where they are eating and maybe join for dinner
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bblfish In Paris I had no problem just going in as a visitor. You could just try to see. In my case it was problematic because I had to participate...
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melvster bblfish: ok thanks ... good old twitter ... someone is sure to be taking pictures of food, or drunken dancing rsn ... https://twitter.com/hashtag/IETF93?src=hash
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melvster oh wendy is there
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melvster Mark Nottingham ”@mnot Jul 18
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melvster If you’re going to #IETF93 in Prague, remember that there will be a screening of @citizenfour tomorrow (Sunday) at 7pm in Congress Hall I
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melvster darn missed it ...
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melvster anyway ... back to work
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KevinMarks melvster: opensocial defined ways to query activity streams endpoints by time, number etc
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melvster oh cool
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melvster yeah that'd be useful info
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KevinMarks if you want a current example, https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ is useful
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KevinMarks http://opensocial.github.io/spec/2.5.1/Core-API-Server.xml#Standard-Request-Parameters
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melvster very nice!
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KevinMarks also, your gitpay link to github is typo'd - github.com not github.come
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melvster KevinMarks: thanks, fixed!
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KevinMarks if you put rel="me" on the github link and fix the typo, your gitpay profiles will work with indieauth
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melvster oh good point
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melvster KevinMarks: great suggestion, thanks done ..
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KevinMarks melvster: see also http://werd.io/2015/market-source-an-open-source-ecosystem-that-pays
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melvster KevinMarks: that's pretty cool ... id like to make a system where one day people can work on open source projects on github, and then if people like it, they can get enough money to live etc.
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aaronpk i thought that was what gittip is for
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aaronpk or gratipay now
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KevinMarks that blew up
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KevinMarks https://medium.com/gratipay-blog/gratipay-2-0-2453d3c53077
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aaronpk oh yeah
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melvster it's really wierd
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melvster if you think how much value open source has created
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melvster how little they have got back
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melvster if every open source developer was funded full time forever, the world would make a massive profit
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melvster oh wow stuart cheshire is here ... got to meet him
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melvster let's see if i can get apple to adopt webid :)
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wseltzer melvster, hi from Prague
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melvster wseltzer: hi! hope you're enjoying the city! :)
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melvster and conference! :)
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melvster slvrbckt: lives here too ... :)
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wseltzer melvster, what I get to see of it, between meeting sessions!
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melvster wseltzer: we had a private bet that you'll all be hanging out in the hard rock cafe :)
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wseltzer (there are one-day rates to IETF if you want to visit for just a bit)
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wseltzer thinks there are better options than hard rock!
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melvster yeah for sure
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melvster oh thanks ... will look at the sessions and see ...
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melvster i normally swim next door to the hilton :)
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melvster does indieauth support facebook?
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aaronpk no, facebook doesn't return HTML on public profile URLs
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aaronpk everything is in a giant JS block inside an html comment
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melvster thanks
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melvster aaronpk: is it only in ruby ... reading ruby does actually physically hurt my eyes ... :/
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aaronpk is what only in ruby
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aaronpk indieauth.com is a ruby implementation of an indieauth server
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melvster indieauth code
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aaronpk there are others with varying functionality
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aaronpk if you're tlaking about the relmeauth specifically, there are a few other implementations http://indiewebcamp.com/RelMeAuth#Implementations
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melvster thanks
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melvster aaronpk: can I point more than one page to, say a github account?
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aaronpk github only has one "website" field
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aaronpk but google+ lets you link to multiple rel=me profiles
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melvster you could comma separate them like in subjectAlerntativeName
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aaronpk uh
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aaronpk no
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aaronpk that sounds awful
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melvster why?
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melvster github is pretty awful to start with
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melvster it actually calls homepage 'blog' in the api
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aaronpk wow just tried it
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aaronpk github actually doesn't display my URL if it is set to http://aaronparecki.com,http://aaronpk.com
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aaronpk it's just gone
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melvster arg ... pity
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melvster silos :(
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melvster aaronpk: because i point to github from my homepage already, but now I want to use indieweb with gitpay.org
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melvster so then im forced to pick one or the other
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melvster if i want to use gitpay.org ill have to give up my homepage
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aaronpk indeed
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melvster at least with github
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melvster i suppose i can have twitter on my homepage
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melvster then github on the other
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aaronpk use google+ or write your own auth server
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aaronpk or link your email address, or gpg key
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melvster aaronpk: id need to extend the protocol too ... BUT looks like I cant even put a , in github ... so how to do it?
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melvster im not a huge fan of g+
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aaronpk email or gpg key are valid options
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melvster then does it send out an email?
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melvster or do i need to put email in the page?
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aaronpk no, uses persona
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melvster ugh
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melvster which is going to get turned off in a few days i think
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melvster probably a good thing!
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melvster mozilla dont tell you that they phish your password ...
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aaronpk is it really?!
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melvster i heard end of july
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aaronpk i'll switch it to sending an email then
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melvster unless they change their mind or defer it
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melvster persona was a horrible design
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aaronpk http://identity.mozilla.com/post/78873831485/transitioning-persona-to-community-ownership
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aaronpk "There are no plans to decommission Persona."
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melvster you need one password for persona and one for your email provider
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aaronpk from may 2014, but no new blog posts
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melvster but they dont even make that clear to you
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aaronpk persona was a clever bootstrapping to support email providers tha don't support the protocol yet
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melvster aaronpk: oh i know how to do it ... just tell people to change the field in github when they want to log in to gitpay
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melvster then they can change it back afterwards
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melvster oh wait maybe i should just use plain old oauth
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aaronpk twitter and gpg aren't good options for you either?
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aaronpk or last.fm
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aaronpk what exactly are you trying to do?
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melvster yeah i could use twitter for my home page and gitpay for my github, but it just seems a bit strange ... maybe because im not used to it
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melvster im trying to allow people to lot in to a service so they can add fields to their profile (ironically!) like a bitcoin address
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melvster s/lot/log
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aaronpk the service being gitpay?
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melvster yeah probably
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melvster unless i split it out
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melvster into an identity service
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aaronpk is gitpay tied to github somehow?
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melvster i guess i should just use normal oauth
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aaronpk if so then just use github auth
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melvster ok got it ... i think that makes sense ... was just interested in indieauth as maybe another way
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aaronpk yeah, I don't think it helps you in this case
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melvster i probably need to impl. github auth anyway
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melvster ok thanks, was interesting to learn about anyway
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melvster aaronpk: PS you're due 100 credits for the comment you made on the SoLiD repo ... :)
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aaronpk haha cool
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aaronpk where do the credits come from?
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melvster aaronpk: they come from the project
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melvster bobsled effect
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melvster at the start the project needs some work to take off ... but then it creates value and that feeds back into the economy
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melvster so you start pushing in the beginning, but then you jump in, and it pushes you
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melvster so works the economy too
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melvster i really need a bobsled animation for this :)
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melvster but to start off with the "iron wallets" will have a coinbase of 1 million bits ... to get the economy going
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cwebber2 hi aaronpk
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cwebber2 and ben_thatmustbeme
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aaronpk good evening
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cwebber2 I think we talked about meeting up this week or something?
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cwebber2 also looks like wilkie and lynn cyrin were around too
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cwebber2 mattl too
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aaronpk oh cool!
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aaronpk I'm actually in san diego right now, but back tuesday night
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cwebber2 aaronpk: cool
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mattl yeah, i don't arrive until tomorrow.
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cwebber2 aaronpk: I'm free non-tuesday nights
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mattl i'm going to this tomorrow: https://sfconservancy.org/news/2015/jun/30/supporter-bbq/
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cwebber2 me too
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aaronpk i don't know what your oscon schedule is, but i'd be up for getting breakfast or meeting up later in the day or whateve
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aaronpk i'm flexible once I get back
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mattl i think everyone i know is going to that thing tomorrow night.
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mattl aaronpk: i'm around, just ping me on IRC or Twitter.
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aaronpk I feel like we should set a time while we're all here :)
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aaronpk are you all staying on the east side near the convention center?
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mattl i'm at the university dorms. i think chris too.
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aaronpk portland state?
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cwebber2 yep
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mattl yep
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aaronpk cool, we could do breakfast downtown then
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mattl works for me.
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cwebber2 that would be good for me too
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cwebber2 I can't do breakfast on early friday but I can do any other day I think
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cwebber2 and deb might be interested too
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aaronpk sweet, is wednesday too early?