2015-09-15 UTC
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# 16:59 csarven tantek I have built http://csarven.ca/webmention awhile ago. It makes use of the Activity Streams vocab. Have a look at it. I think it might be of interest to the microformats and indiewebcamp communities. Your feedback is highly appreciated! What have you built lately? Are you working on improving the microformats examples for the AS spec? RRSAgent joined the channel
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# 17:00 Zakim I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot # 17:00 Zakim no conference has been identified yet, sandro # 17:01 tantek csarven: yes I saw your webmention implementation/documentation - very interesting and helps broaden the space! hhalpin joined the channel
# 17:01 tantek The latest thing I've built is photo posts on my site # 17:01 cwebber2 tantek: I wrote a json-ld parser that can do expansion, so far # 17:01 tantek I'm spending more time on the implied post type algorithm than on trying to improve AS # 17:02 elf-pavlik tantek since WG & IG share this channel maybe we can also mention IG related links? # 17:03 tantek and csarven - your webmention implementation was a month or so ago right? anything since then? # 17:03 tantek elf-pavlik: sure! add the upcoming link of IG agenda too! # 17:03 hhalpin having some audio issues, will be in IRC till I fix it! # 17:04 AnnB join WebEx and have it call you # 17:04 csarven tantek I've made a PR for AS2 3-4 weeks ago. Hoping that James will review/merge soon ;) # 17:04 sandro phone number: +1-617-324-0000 There is a meeting number: 642 112 960 The password is still 'socl' # 17:04 tantek csarven++ thank you for contributing to the spec # 17:06 wilkie cwebber2: somebody else who uses scheme to process stuff. good to see :) # 17:07 wilkie Arnaud: welcome. as usual we will start with admin. first one: approval of the minutes # 17:08 tantek sandro, are you on the phone and can say something about where we are with W3T and charter? # 17:08 wilkie Arnaud: there was a review by the members to update. # 17:08 tantek sandro: W3M has to review it the results, which they will do tomorrow morning. # 17:09 wilkie AnnB: W3M is the management of the W3C, if it is not clean # 17:09 tantek how long does W3M review of the results take? # 17:09 sandro Probably about 30 seconds during their next meeting, which is 9am ET tomorrow. # 17:09 wilkie Arnaud: there is a proposal from tantek to start using the new license and republish the AS spec (I assume the two different documents: core/vocab) using the new license # 17:09 tantek if we can agree to it today, perhaps we can do it by next Tuesday? # 17:10 tantek PROPOSAL: Start using the new license and republish the AS spec (two different documents: core/vocab) using the new license # 17:10 wilkie Arnaud: two possibilities: the WG has to agree and the editor has to commit the update. # 17:10 wilkie Arnaud: if we agree on the proposal then we can ask the editor to carry out the resolution of that update # 17:10 wilkie sandro: we can just have him publish at his earliest convenience # 17:11 tantek I would prefer that csarven's pull request be considered, but am ok with publishing WD without. # 17:11 wilkie sandro: I saw csarven say something about PRs not merged, so should we see what changes would be made there? # 17:11 csarven I don't know if a new example is significant for license stuff.. # 17:11 wilkie Arnaud: I would hope not just the license gets changed, but also any normal updates and revisions. # 17:11 sandro +1 assuming James agrees there've been no substantive changes not backed up by WG resolution # 17:11 tantek csarven, up to you, +1 or +0 accordingly per your preference # 17:11 wilkie Arnaud: I'd like to ask jasnell and see that he agrees. # 17:12 wilkie sandro: I voted +1 *repeats comment above in IRC* # 17:13 wilkie tantek: I'm assuming jasnell would object if there are any problems. # 17:13 wilkie Arnaud: I'm a bit concerned about your concerns because we would assume problems and issues are handled by the WG. # 17:13 tantek sandro: James may have made substantial changes that he has not yet notified the working group, and wanted make sure that he's not just slipping those changes through. # 17:14 wilkie Arnaud: I see all +1s so we can call it resolved # 17:14 Arnaud RESOLVED: Start using the new license and republish the AS spec (two different documents: core/vocab) using the new license # 17:14 sandro no other SUBSTANTIVE changes -- editorial are fine. # 17:14 tantek sandro, presumably examples too? like csarven's? # 17:14 wilkie Arnaud: I was hoping we'd be able to talk about AS with jasnell and the issues that are open. but we won't be able to do that. eprodrom joined the channel
# 17:15 Zakim Present: elf-pavlik, Arnaud, AnnB, wilkie, csarven, sandro, cwebber2, tantek, rhiaro # 17:15 Zakim On IRC I see eprodrom, hhalpin, Zakim, RRSAgent, tantek, tilgovi_, bblfish, jasnell, elf-pavlik, csarven, AnnB, Arnaud, melvster, wilkie, dwhly, cwebber2, pdurbin, oshepherd, # 17:15 Zakim ... rhiaro, ben_thatmustbeme, Loqi, slvrbckt, bigbluehat, bret, aaronpk, tommorris_, tessierashpool_, tsyesika, raucao, ElijahLynn, sandro, trackbot, wseltzer # 17:15 wilkie Arnaud: so we will change the agenda order to talk about the social api # 17:15 tantek eprodrom: I'd like to talk about the charter change # 17:15 wilkie eprodrom: I'd like to make a comment about the charter change # 17:15 wilkie eprodrom: I'd wonder if now would be the time to talk about other changes to the charter # 17:16 wilkie eprodrom: at least the duration of the working group # 17:16 wilkie eprodrom: our schedule has us finishing by the end of next year which is optimistic # 17:16 Zakim sees eprodrom, tantek on the speaker queue # 17:16 wilkie eprodrom: we had talked about changing the schedule/duration of the WG # 17:17 wilkie eprodrom: the only reason I bring it up is because we had talked about changing the charter months ago and talked about other changes # 17:17 wilkie eprodrom: it might make sense to start that process now nicolagreco_ joined the channel
# 17:17 wilkie Arnaud: do you want to make those changes? sounds like you are motivated # 17:17 wilkie eprodrom: it feels like we have made a small change to the charter and we see that it takes a while to get that process going and don't want to be slow about that # 17:18 wilkie Arnaud: if we only need an extension in time we don't need a new charter for that # 17:18 wilkie Arnaud: if we are in a situation where we are out of time and need more and making progress we can make the case and a duration will be granted # 17:18 AnnB I appreciate eprodrom trying to keep us realistic with schedule and commitments # 17:19 wilkie eprodrom: in our charter we do mention a schedule we are nowhere near hitting, but we do mention places to go to see an updated schedule # 17:19 Zakim tantek, you wanted to provide update re: schedule # 17:19 wilkie eprodrom: if we don't have changes to make to the charter, we don't have a problem then # 17:19 wilkie tantek: at the last telecon I was given the action of changing the schedule link on the wiki # 17:20 wilkie tantek: because we didn't want to change the schedule on the charter so we could say the only change was license # 17:20 wilkie tantek: I did my best to update our schedule based on what I know and what we've accomplished # 17:20 wilkie tantek: the schedule on the wiki is greatly expanded than before. please take a look if you are working. # 17:21 wilkie tantek: I left some of the optimist dates because if people are motivated they could complete things by that time # 17:21 rhiaro Okay, I'll probably add to / amend social api schedule soonish # 17:21 wilkie tantek: there was a request for more detail and I tried to provide that # 17:21 wilkie sandro: I agree with all that. no need for a charter change on those constraints. # 17:22 wilkie sandro: I want to amend the agenda to talk about F2F # 17:22 wilkie Arnaud: as you may have known, our F2F in Japan was canceled # 17:22 wilkie sandro: the options for the next one that people proposed has been San Francisco and Boston. # 17:23 wilkie sandro: we need 8 weeks notice so we have mid-November at the earliest # 17:23 wilkie sandro: we can do something earlier if everybody is ok with that # 17:23 tantek is anyone here going to Redecentralize Conference? E.g. I had no plans. # 17:23 hhalpin To close to Christmas will be hard for people, so I'd aim for mid-Nov or early Dec. # 17:23 wilkie sandro: but there is Redecentralize in London people may want to go to, so I'd say mid-December # 17:23 tantek I don't care about conflicting with redecentralize because no one here has said it conflicts # 17:24 hhalpin Sounds like time for a Doodle poll # 17:24 wilkie Arnaud: I want to clarify: when sandro says it is either SF or Boston, SF has two possibilities # 17:24 tantek SF is convenient - can use public transit from SFO BART, and MUNI in town # 17:25 wilkie Arnaud: san francisco or south bay, one has good transportation but expensive and the other is cheap but you'll need a car # 17:25 wilkie Arnaud: we are still discussing it. no conclusion so far. # 17:26 wilkie AnnB: my concern is that Seattle is pretty far away from everything and we should opt for somewhere most people can attend # 17:26 hhalpin One advantage of Seattle would be possibility of engaging Microsoft. In SF, we could engage with folks from OpenSocial and AppFusions who were very supportive. # 17:26 cwebber2 boston is easiest for me, but San Francisco I know people as well # 17:26 tantek hhalpin, have you had any contact with Twitter folks? # 17:26 hhalpin (but disappeared for reasons that are still kinda unkown!) # 17:26 cwebber2 being on a limited budget, finding crashspace is probably necessary for me to make it # 17:26 hhalpin Yes, I have lots of Twiter contacts, they are too busy for standards work they said but are happy to watch # 17:26 tantek if we meet in SF we may be able to get some Twitter people to stop by midday? It's a quick MUNI ride for them. # 17:26 hhalpin and if they like it, you never know, implement # 17:26 wilkie Arnaud: the plan for now is for the chairs to figure out what they are doing and where can host and when we figure that out, we will get more input from the WG # 17:26 hhalpin I'll ping my contacts at Twitter. # 17:26 tantek hhalpin right, can we get them to show up for an hour or two? or join us for lunch? # 17:27 hhalpin I know mostly the security folks but gave a talk there where we mentioned AS2.0, had mostly positive reaction. # 17:27 tantek even informal participation from them would be invaluable # 17:27 wilkie Arnaud: we'll get back with options to choose from # 17:27 cwebber2 wilkie: btw, since you're also a schemer, maybe I should get feedback from you on activitystuff once I start to approach 0.1 for sanity :) # 17:27 hhalpin Agreed tantek. As soon as we have a date, I'll see if we can drag some Twitter folks over # 17:28 rhiaro Yeah, Boston just easiest, but happy to travel # 17:28 tantek I favor SF but can do Boston/Cambridge no problem # 17:28 wilkie Arnaud: I admit I missed last week's call. it is not clear where we stand, so can somebody tell me what is going on? # 17:28 AnnB in terms of "dragging others in" .. are there people / groups with toes in this water in Boston area, or maybe NYC? # 17:29 wilkie Arnaud: what is stopping us from making progress # 17:29 tantek rhiaro: have not really worked on anything social for a couple of weeks. have talked with aaronpk and tsyesika a bunch # 17:29 wilkie rhiaro: I have not worked on much this past week. but I've working on a draft of a schedule maybe for next week. # 17:30 tantek rhiaro: can work on providing a draft of a schedule by TPAC # 17:30 wilkie Arnaud: do you have an idea of what the draft will look like? # 17:30 tantek rhiaro: I have an idea in my head [of what a first draft could look like] # 17:30 AnnB yay for Amy's head! nicolagreco joined the channel
# 17:31 wilkie rhiaro: I think some of it is in tsyesika's head too # 17:31 wilkie Arnaud: so the three of you have in mind what the solution looks like and can put it in a draft # 17:32 wilkie Arnaud: we can say if the three of you are in agreement that this is something the rest of the WG would be ok with it # 17:32 wilkie Arnaud: anything else with respect to the social API # 17:32 tantek agreed we should skip AS discussion this week # 17:32 wilkie Arnaud: I haven't seen jasnell joining, so not sure there is anything AS related we could talk about and make progress # 17:32 Zakim sees elf-pavlik, AnnB on the speaker queue # 17:33 wilkie elf-pavlik: after last week tantek made it clear implementation is very important. # 17:33 wilkie elf-pavlik: I made a simple wiki proposal for a syntax, a read-write API for federation, and federation. # 17:34 wilkie elf-pavlik: I want to people to look at it and discuss how to break up a implementation. # 17:34 tantek hmm - I don't think such project micromanagement of implementation is really needed - I mean if it helps your implementation great # 17:34 wilkie elf-pavlik: and come up with something that can express everything we wish to express # 17:34 wilkie tantek: I understand the value of having an implementation plan. # 17:35 wilkie tantek: I also break up things into parts. but I don't see the need to do that within the group or in a coordinated fashion. # 17:35 Zakim sees AnnB, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue # 17:35 wilkie tantek: our wiki lists actionable things for people to do. we have user stories... so as an implementor: get a user story done. # 17:35 jasnell my apologies, I ended up double booked today and won't be able to join today as expected. I'll catch up on the notes later on and weigh in on the mailing list # 17:35 wilkie tantek: or edit your comment on a user story vote to say "I've implemented this" # 17:36 wilkie tantek: if these are useful to others, great. elf-pavlik, are you committed to implementing these on your own site? # 17:36 tantek SWAT0 federation was implemented with webmention and PuSH # 17:36 wilkie elf-pavlik: yes. that's how I found out to do this. and from that want to know how people are implementing these user stories. what syntax they use, what the data model looks like, etc. # 17:37 wilkie elf-pavlik: I want that feedback is there without waiting for API discussion for other implementers # 17:37 tantek elf-pavlik: if you like that plan, just start building it yourself # 17:37 wilkie Arnaud: thank you elf-pavlik. I agree with tantek that it is a nice effort to coordinate, but nobody is bound to this schedule. nicolagreco joined the channel
# 17:38 wilkie Arnaud: might be a practical way to test interoperability. # 17:38 elf-pavlik why so little implementations so far from participants of this group so far? # 17:38 wilkie AnnB: I liked what I read in the minutes that you decided to pursue the spirit of user stories rather than it was as written. # 17:39 wilkie AnnB: the objections were mostly about how the user story was written and it was unclear what the IG should be working on # 17:39 wilkie tantek: I think there is value in the interest group. and there needs to be a leader that asserts the value of the interest group. # 17:40 wilkie tantek: the interest group was there to help collect input from users and people who want social web standards and want them to do This but do not necessarily want or are able to implement them # 17:40 wilkie tantek: I would still like to see this. the interest group needs to step up and do something instead of asking what to do. # 17:41 wilkie Arnaud: there was a concern that past groups on this topic got bogged down on details and the interest group is for breaking that down and having a place for those details. # 17:41 tantek that's true - you (IG) doesn't have to have teleconferences # 17:42 tantek also - IG can use IRC to keep conversations going on # 17:42 wilkie Arnaud: i think it is reasonable to fall back to this mode where it is there if people want to use it or not. # 17:42 wilkie AnnB: I think that this is valuable for those reasons, but it may not be working like that in reality. nicolagreco joined the channel
# 17:43 wilkie AnnB: I'm not sure if the industry is connected to smaller groups or communities. I'm only chair because mark stepped out, but maybe I'm not the best person for that. # 17:43 wilkie tantek: if you can't find a reason to have a teleconference, then do not. and that's ok. just when you need it. # 17:43 tantek happy to encourage IG conversations in this channel #social # 17:44 eprodrom Thanks Arnaud ! # 17:44 wilkie Arnaud: thanks every one. we will talk next week! # 17:44 Zakim As of this point the attendees have been elf-pavlik, Arnaud, AnnB, wilkie, csarven, sandro, cwebber2, tantek, rhiaro # 17:46 tantek BTW has anyone here attended the Redecentralize conference in the past or have any plans to do so in the future? # 17:46 tantek And if anything interesting / useful has come out of the Redecentralize conference? (implementations, proposals, etc.) ? URLS? # 17:48 hhalpin Haven't been - there's a lot of Ethereum talk # 17:48 hhalpin I think the blockchain is super-interesting but my personal feeling is Ethereum is vapourware # 17:48 hhalpin You get 18 million in funding and your software barely works - I'm skeptical. But you never know! nicolagreco_ joined the channel
# 17:49 hhalpin From a crypto standpoint, chosing a better standardized elliptic curve would make sense. I'm of course pro-Curve25519 # 17:55 wilkie the blockchain is itself neat, but making some X-service+blockchain thing, you have to do a lot to make me believe it is more than just vague novelty # 18:01 tantek wilkie - tend to agree with that assessment, and am further skeptical about blockchain based approaches KevinMarks joined the channel
# 18:38 jasnell just fyi... it will be at least the 24th or 25th before I can get a new WD published with the updated licensing # 18:41 tantek jasnell: yup - would be great to know your estimate for how soon - sooner better obv but totally understand on personal schedule constraints! # 18:45 Arnaud I think it's a good move but I don't understand the "the sooner the better" part # 18:47 tantek Arnaud: I'm trying to help set a good example for W3C as a whole with publishing documents with the new license # 18:48 tantek reducing/removing any sense of fear or uncertainty # 18:48 tantek partly this is driven by motivations of being on the AB # 18:58 tantek I'm hoping that means actual date it shows up on TR? # 18:59 tantek can you preflight with Sandro etc. to make sure that happens? # 18:59 jasnell with the new publishing tool yeah it should be instant yes # 18:59 tantek so we don't stuck behind all the W3C pub bureaucracy stuff # 18:59 jasnell the actual publication is quick. It's finding the free moment to actually do it that's difficult ;-) # 19:04 tantek sandro was wondering if there were any substantive normative changes that still needed WG review # 19:04 tantek I assumed not, that is, assumed you would have already given the heads-up to the group before committing any such changes. I think Arnaud assumed same as me. elf-pavlik and AnnB joined the channel
# 19:20 jasnell not since the last round that had been discussed and approved at least # 19:21 jasnell for instance, the updated paging model was landed since the last TR was published # 19:22 jasnell just fyi btw, tsyesika has stepped up to help co-edit # 19:22 jasnell I'm going to be getting her bootstrapped on the process in the coming couple of weeks # 19:23 jasnell there's not a lot of extra work, but at the very least we'll have an extra set of hands to help push updates as necessary as my available time is going to become increasingly more scarce # 19:23 tantek hopefully we'll keep making active improvements e.g. to examples and such # 19:24 tantek we can consider larger changes only as needed based on implementer etc. feedback # 19:30 elf-pavlik i plan to create issue in AS2.0 repo once i deploy relevant examples on domains under my control # 19:44 jasnell elf-pavlik: I have not had any chance to review it # 19:46 elf-pavlik once you have chancle please thinkg about eg. list of things i like and list of likes of a resource (aka. object) # 19:46 elf-pavlik or list of hings i read/watch or list of people who read/watch something # 19:47 elf-pavlik I see need for general patter for any given verb which don't require creating few new vocab terms per verb # 19:49 tantek elf-pavlik: I don't see any general pattern due to lack of documentation of URLs to real world examples of such # 19:49 tantek if we're talking about imagined patterns, then sure, I see plenty # 19:50 tantek but I prefer to focus my time+work on real world behaviors first # 19:58 Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed bblfish, AnnB and tilgovi joined the channel
elf-pavlik waves from Lyon (just arrived hitchhiking from Barcelona)
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-09-15]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85643&oldid=85636
csarven tantek I have built http://csarven.ca/webmention awhile ago. It makes use of the Activity Streams vocab. Have a look at it. I think it might be of interest to the microformats and indiewebcamp communities. Your feedback is highly appreciated! What have you built lately? Are you working on improving the microformats examples for the AS spec?
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/15-social-irc
hhalpin having some audio issues, will be in IRC till I fix it!
Arnaud PROPOSED: Approval of Minutes of 8 September 2015 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-09-08-minutes
ben_thatmustbeme Boston is certainly easiest for me
