#social 2015-11-17

2015-11-17 UTC
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sandro hmmm, odd there's no agenda at https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-11-17
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aaronpk oops. who's the chair even?
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sandro tantek, are you chairing today, or is Evan?
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tantek I am
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tantek greetings #social - since no one has added anything to the agenda for today, and I am your chair today, I am cancelling the telcon. https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-11-17
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sandro Well, that's one solution.
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tantek sandro: making a point, if no one thought anything in particular was important enough to put on the agenda, then better if we cancel and give people the time back
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wilkie lol. and james gave regrets, so maybe that's for the best
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sandro I think there's an open issues list which we could work through without anyone but the chair needing to take specific action. But without James, yes, probably not much point.
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wilkie yeah, exactly
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tantek sandro - no - if no one brings up a specific issue as being worthy of synchronous time - then it is better NOT to waste everyone's synchronous time with boring issue iteration
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tantek please continue asynchronously everyone. thank you!
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Loqi Tantekelik made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-11-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=86844&oldid=0
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melvster tantek: the irony ... for the last few weeks the complaints have been not enough telecon time to cover topics, now there are no topics!
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tantek melvster - clearly people have figured out how to cover the topics efficiently asynchronously!
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tantek which is a very good thing
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cwebber2 oh
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cwebber2 no call today
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cwebber2 okay!
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aaronpk it's true, there has been a lot more async progress lately than usual!
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sandro or people just wanted a break. or people were just assuming someone else had the ball this week.
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cwebber2 but, did we cover all topics form last week?
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cwebber2 I thought we had stragglers
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tantek there's no exclusivity to the ball :)
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cwebber2 I have no problem with skipping the meeting today
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tantek cwebber2: we did have stragglers, but there were also regrets for today, so it is likely that the stragglers were from folks who couldn't attend today anyway.
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cwebber2 tantek: got it, ok!
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tantek thanks for the confirmation cwebber2! see you next week.
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tantek sandro, sometimes taking a break is good too.
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melvster tantek: what's your deadline for adding items to the agenda?
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tantek melvster: for empty vs. non-empty? I figured an hour before the telcon was plenty liberal.
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melvster it would be good to know in advance
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melvster ok thanks
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tantek usually other working groups have a much longer / conservative deadline
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tantek like 48 hours or 2 business days before etc.
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tantek but there is no reason for such process. an hour before is reasonable, plus at any point everyone can see that the agenda is blank and plan accordingly.
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melvster yeah but in those other WG the chairs read the mailing list, so the telecon. so you're not comparing like for like
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tantek you're right, I'm dismissing past inefficient methods on both parts (mailing lists, and conservative deadlines)
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melvster tantek: you may find mailing lists inefficient, but following relevant topics is a requirement to remain in good standing
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melvster at least until you can persuade the w3c to change policy
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tantek melvster - can you cite specific examples in the past where you have found the notion of "good standing" useful?
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tantek aspects of policy that have no real world utility may be ignored
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tantek and lack of citations of specific examples of utility is evidence that they are ignored
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tantek you may wish to consider reducing your usage of process to only what appears to be necessary to actually get work done. you'll likely find it more efficient.
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melvster tantek: there is utility if following discussions, you may find it inefficient, but not a reason to ignore w3c policy, imho
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tantek melvster: your statement lack the citation I requested. therefore you have missed the point and should re-read the above.
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melvster i have missed *your* point, being that you require evidence that w3c policy has utility before you'll follow it, I have not missed *the* point, which is that w3c policy exists, and imho the burden of proof lies on those that wish to ingore it, rather than, those that wish to follow it
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tantek melvster: since you are unable/unwilling to provide citations of your hypothetical assertions, I am ignoring further statements regarding process from you. I wish you a productive day building things, instead of arguing about hypothetical process/policy.
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ben_thatmustbeme dont' we have roll over stuff from last meeting? though i guess its pretty much all just AS2 and james not being on today would mean nothing much to discuss
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ben_thatmustbeme reads back the conversation
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, if melvster wants to go to w3c process to complain about people ignoring the mailing list, the same can be said about him only showing to very few telcons in order to be considered in "good standing"
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ben_thatmustbeme also no agenda an hour before a telcon is WAY more than reasonable. if you are adding agenda items within an hour of the telcon, its basically guarantees that no one will have had time to read it
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ben_thatmustbeme waves to those in the room
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jasnell__ actually, the past few calls have been quite productive in terms of resolving issues. Just had a personal conflict for today, and another next week so I won't be adding items to discuss until the next call that I'm able to attend
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ben_thatmustbeme makes sense jasnell
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ben_thatmustbeme and yeah, the last few calls have been quite productive
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jasnell__ to be absolutely honest, IMHO a combination of github+email+phone seems to be the most productive combination.
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aaronpk I definitely think Github has been good
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aaronpk tho I would say that I have felt more progress being able to chat with people on IRC instead of reading long and sometimes ranty emails
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