#social 2016-01-12
2016-01-12 UTC
# Loqi Aaronpk made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-01-12]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87509&oldid=0
prtksxna, jasnell, shepazu, tantek, KevinMarks, Arnaud1, jaywink, the_frey and cwebber2_remote joined the channel
# cwebber2_remote get out of here cwebber2!
# cwebber2_remote ah well
# cwebber2_remote looks forward to ssh'ing into his home machine again... is remote and has a router glitch
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# Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-01-12]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87510&oldid=87509
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# Loqi Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87512&oldid=87462
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# cwebber2_remote moin moin
# Loqi Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-01-12]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87513&oldid=87510
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# eprodrom trackbot, start meeting
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# RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/12-social-irc
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# ben_thatmustbeme present+
# eprodrom present+
# azaroth present+ Rob_Sanderson
# cwebber2_remote be on in a second, phone is crashing ;x
# eprodrom Can we get a scribe for today?
# ben_thatmustbeme i can scribe too, just had to make sure i had a good keyboard
# azaroth +1 to Sandro
# cwebber2_remote yay welcome frank!
# cwebber2_remote present+ cwebber2
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# eprodrom PROPOSED: Approve minutes of Jan 5 2016
# eprodrom +1
# cwebber2_remote +1
# azaroth +1
# eprodrom RESOLVED: Approve minutes of Jan 5 2016
Frank joined the channel
# cwebber2_remote welcome Frank !
# cwebber2_remote that was probably me, it looks like I never successfully muted (using someone else's phone, not sure why I failboated so bad)
# cwebber2_remote also I accidentally hung up, I'm doing awesome
# Loqi Rhiaro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-01-05-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87517&oldid=0
# Loqi Sandro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-01-12]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87515&oldid=87513
# Loqi Sandro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/AS2 CR]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87518&oldid=87448
# Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-01-12]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87516&oldid=87515
# cwebber2_remote o/ jaywink
Karli joined the channel
# azaroth us++
# ben_thatmustbeme waves to Frank
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# eprodrom q?
# eprodrom ack sandro
# azaroth I'll add it to the Annotation WG agenda for tomorrow
# ben_thatmustbeme might be good to try to inform projects like wordpress, etc things
# ben_thatmustbeme i'll try to reach out to them
# cwebber2_remote we thought today was where we approved the standards for fpwd
# ben_thatmustbeme there is already a plugin for it, but its certainly a different thing to get them looking at it directly
# cwebber2_remote not publish
# cwebber2_remote :X
# eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-15-minutes <-
# eprodrom Request raise FPWD-blocking issues on ActivityPump and micropub by 12 Jan 2016
# cwebber2_remote my phone keeps dropping off :
# cwebber2_remote q?
# cwebber2_remote q+
# eprodrom ack cwebber2_remote
# cwebber2_remote AUGH
# cwebber2_remote phone dropped again
# cwebber2_remote I'll say it here.
# cwebber2_remote I think we're ready for FPWD. I was under the impression that we were voting today on both AP and micropub
# cwebber2_remote apparently I was wrong
# cwebber2_remote so we were supposed to publish by today?
# cwebber2_remote if that's true, I think we should publish, I was under the impression we scheduled things so that AP and micropub would be published at the same time
# cwebber2_remote and the vote would happen today
# cwebber2_remote hence my confusion things are up already
# cwebber2_remote so does there need to be a vote even? we can do one
# cwebber2_remote or should we just move on to process?
# cwebber2_remote and get it published and up?
# cwebber2_remote ok
# eprodrom PROPOSED: Publish FPWD of ActivityPump
# cwebber2_remote +1
# eprodrom +1
# azaroth +1
# eprodrom RESOLVED: Publish FPWD of ActivityPump
# azaroth re announcements
# eprodrom activity api
# cwebber2_remote I think activitypump is fine personally...
# cwebber2_remote I don't have another name really ready
# cwebber2_remote rhiaro: haha!
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# eprodrom rhiaro: I like it
# cwebber2_remote rhiaro: activitypub would be fine by me
# cwebber2_remote I can scribe
# ben_thatmustbeme i can
# cwebber2_remote assuming my phone doesn't cut out
# eprodrom scribe: cwebber2_remote
# ben_thatmustbeme scribenick: cwebber2_remote
# cwebber2_remote sandro: procedurally when we go to CR we need to spell out for the director and the public what's our exit criteria
# cwebber2_remote and the procedure is usually 2 interoperable implementaitons
# cwebber2_remote sandro: we could go for a more strict version, 2 real versions
# cwebber2_remote sandro: people suggested I write that down so I did
# cwebber2_remote sandro: there are two proposals on this page, that 2 activitystreams must be used by at least 2 systems
# azaroth (Can we go back to the name after current discussion? +1 on ActivityPub as well)
# cwebber2_remote sandro: so tantek especially asked can we have a stricter verison
# cwebber2_remote sandro: the stricter version is have 2 versions with produced and consumed by qualified implementations, and we have to have a report by a developer, they have to make it available so we can see that it does what it does
# cwebber2_remote sandro: and they have to have a reason for that feaure
# azaroth q+ to -1 asking for rationale for every feature
# cwebber2_remote sandro: I was thinking this way in response to the criticism that some people will look at this work and say "nobody is using this" and this gives us for solid proof to show it's used
# cwebber2_remote sandro: that's me laying out the space, I don't have a strong opionion
# cwebber2_remote sandro: for example, paging is one feature, so at some point someone has to cluster what the features are
# cwebber2_remote sandro: what granularity?
# cwebber2_remote jasnell: I can't queue up on irc so I'll queue up here
# eprodrom ack Arnaud
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: I appreciat ethe intent but I think it's going too far
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: I've never seen this requirement before
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: and it prevents someone from doing an implementation in a product they can't show you
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: it's great if someone can give you access, and maybe we should ask that, and if so it's great, b ut not sure it should be a must
# azaroth +1 to Arnaud
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: as for features, the burden you're putting on people may disincentivize people adding them
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: it seemas backward, we preusmably put things in the spec because we must have a reason to do it
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: it seems odd to me
# cwebber2_remote sandro: the quick answer, i think there's a space between we thought it would be useful and it actualy is useful
# azaroth q-
# cwebber2_remote Arnaud: maybe there's a middle ground we can find there, indicate which things you found useful, without people documenting why they use it
# eprodrom ack azaroth
# azaroth (Arnaud covered my point very well already)
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: I do want to move us along, so I guess azaroth next? oh okay
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: do you want to reiterate here?
# cwebber2_remote azaroth: really just to +1 Arnaud, having people write the documentation for use cases, considering the extent of the spec, would be very time consuming
# cwebber2_remote azaroth: even just "please write an email and say what and why you're using" would be sufficient to capture the intent
# eprodrom ack james
# cwebber2_remote jasnell: one thing we chose not to do at the beginning was to document those things, now we're doing a reverse process figuring out use cases, but I think at this point it might be worth documenting what the key use cases are
# cwebber2_remote jasnell: I can take a first stab at giving a formal list on core use cases based on current spec
# cwebber2_remote ... and we can go from there
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: that sounds reasonable, I think that the motivation here is to show widespread use of those use cases
# eprodrom ack sandro
# cwebber2_remote ... I think we have the use cases from first principles that shows they're worth having
# eprodrom argh, lost my connection
# cwebber2_remote sandro: so I haven't heard anyone say no to the high bar, so I suggest maybe what we do is have the exit criteria be the minimum one (every feature of AS2 used) but then we show what every feature is used in implementation
# cwebber2_remote sandro: maybe we talk a bit and try to find out what has more data
# cwebber2_remote sandro: in light of those implmentations
# cwebber2_remote sandro: so I'll say, james, does what I'm saying make sense, would you be interested in updating your future use cases documentation with things to be implemented(?)
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: yep hi I'm sorry
# cwebber2_remote jasnell: I'm driving on mute (???)
# cwebber2_remote sandro: if you're interested and see the value in gathering the use cases, should we do an implementation report
# cwebber2_remote sandro: see what use cases we think they're doing
# cwebber2_remote sandro: because I think we need to have an implementation report
# cwebber2_remote sandro: so if we can make use cases and get the implementation report... does that make sense and sound compelling?
# cwebber2_remote jasnell: yeah, I'm chalenging how we reconcile that because I'm not sure what list we have of what we're reconciling against
# cwebber2_remote sandro: so I'm suggesting we go with the minimum version, and we have the second part to do our own good effort
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: that makes a lot of sense
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: and makes our process a lot more defensible
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: there were some parts of this that were a little bit more controvercial, as in terms of things that are accessible vs private vs commercial not-easy-to-access
# cwebber2_remote ... but I guess we'll deal with that on a case-by-case basis?
# cwebber2_remote sandro: yes we'll report based on what we can learn from them
# cwebber2_remote eprodrom: yes as a decision making point, can we deal with this as a proposal to use the exit criteria as defined in proposal 1?
# cwebber2_remote sandro: yes I'll define it
# cwebber2_remote +1
# eprodrom +1
# azaroth +1
# cwebber2_remote (do we want to resolve the activitypub thing before end of meeting btw?)
# eprodrom q?
# eprodrom ack aaron
# cwebber2_remote q+
# eprodrom ack cwebber2_remote
# azaroth +1 to ActivityPub
# cwebber2_remote and my phone droped again
# azaroth I'm convinced by Amy's rationale :)
# cwebber2_remote but I'll say +1 activitypub :)
# cwebber2_remote I think it's fine
# cwebber2_remote I like both activitypub and activitypump
# eprodrom PROPOSED: change name of ActivityPump to ActivityPub
# cwebber2_remote today is not a good day for me to be on this call :)
# cwebber2_remote phones hate me
# azaroth +1
# cwebber2_remote +1
# eprodrom +1
# eprodrom q?
# cwebber2_remote Note: I'm also +1 on activitypump :)
# cwebber2_remote I always liked activitypump, but rhiaro makes a good case
# cwebber2_remote and eprodrom doesn't seem excited about the name
# cwebber2_remote one question is, does aaronpk feel like it dilutes "micropub" as a name?
# eprodrom ack aaronpk
# eprodrom RESOLVED: change name of ActivityPump to ActivityPub
# cwebber2_remote I have to leave now
# cwebber2_remote sounds like call is over anyway
# cwebber2_remote good call!
# aaronpk link to doodle poll for the pdx meeting: http://doodle.com/poll/5a8nfcfkqiwxwhpv
# eprodrom trackbot, end meeting
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/12-social-minutes.html trackbot
# ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, bye
# ben_thatmustbeme trackbot really should clean up after itself :P
# trackbot Sorry, ben_thatmustbeme, I don't understand 'trackbot really should clean up after itself :P'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# trackbot Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, clean up after yourself'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# ben_thatmustbeme hah
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# Loqi Sandro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87519&oldid=87512
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# Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87520&oldid=87519
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# tantek jasnell, wilkie I heard that you'd prefer June f2f options week after what's in the poll - I can't make the week after due to a Mozilla All Hands - thought I'd said that in a previous telcon, but I'm not sure: https://wiki.mozilla.org/All_Hands/2016_London
# tantek it looks like June 6-7 or Jun 7-8 is at least doable for for everyone so far http://doodle.com/poll/5a8nfcfkqiwxwhpv
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