#social 2016-01-26
2016-01-26 UTC
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# 
Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-01-26]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97332&oldid=97330
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# 
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-social-irc
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# 
ben_thatmustbeme present+
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# ben_thatmustbeme ack, not on my usual computer and can't remember my wiki login
# 
azaroth ditto
# bengo present+ bengo
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# azaroth present+ Rob_Sanderson
# ben_thatmustbeme i can scribe
# ben_thatmustbeme okay
# azaroth scribenick: azaroth
# azaroth Arnaud: Let's get started, we don't have a very full agenda, but some important topics
# azaroth Topic: Minutes Approval
# azaroth Arnaud: We have two sets of minutes to approve
# azaroth ... The 12th and 19th of January
# azaroth ... Any objections?
# azaroth RESOLUTION: Approval of Minutes of 2016-01-12 and 2016-01-19
# Karli +1
# azaroth +1
# azaroth Arnaud: Main topic is AS 2.0 status
# azaroth ... But James isn't on the call. He warned me yesterday he might not be able to join
# wseltzer present+ wseltzer
# azaroth [people are sorry they're not James]
# azaroth ... He said he was looking to finish the spec by the end of the week. No new issues have been raised.
# azaroth ... So status is pending editorial polish, and we have exit criteria for CR
# azaroth ... last piece that's missing is a test suite
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# azaroth ... Chairs and team discussed and realized that the spec had a couple of problems
# azaroth ... not tech issues, but missing a conformance section and the exit criteria refer to features that aren't defined
# azaroth ... need to address those
# azaroth ... If you follow the link from the agenda to the issues, Sandro has raised them
# 
sandro https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/280 CR: What are the separate "features" of AS2?
# azaroth ... We should discuss those now if we can make progress
# azaroth ... Sandro?
# azaroth Sandro: Thank you ;|
# sandro https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/281 CR: needs Conformance Clause
# azaroth ... Conformance is 281. After the deadline I know, but an issue.
# azaroth ... There's a QA framework from about 10 years. First requirement is a conformance clause
# azaroth ... Most specs do indeed have them. But vocabs have a much harder time with them.
# azaroth ... software can conform to specs, but more fuzzy for vocabs as consumer and producer are separate
# azaroth ... A couple of things that handle this different are linked, and seem fairly reasonable
# azaroth ... Should read through them
# azaroth ... Most interesting one is the first, vocab-org
# azaroth ...
# azaroth ... [Reads the spec]
# azaroth link?
# azaroth for the minutes, plz
# azaroth ... If you're doing something like AS2, and you want to claim conformance, then use AS2
# azaroth tantek?: I don't think it's obvious
# azaroth ... We debated that specific problem
# azaroth Sandro: It sounds familiar, and we need to be careful how to word it
# azaroth tantek: If I have my random extension, can I still claim conformance? And we said no
# azaroth ... Have to have the AS vocab in there
# azaroth Arnaud: That's in line with the example I think
# azaroth Arnaud: Agree with what he's saying, think we need the section, but that it's already been discussed
# eprodrom present+ eprodrom
# azaroth tantek: Right, doesn't obviate the need, but something we can use to start building a conformance section
# azaroth sandro: May just be editorial
# azaroth Arnaud: Something we should give a chance to the editors to put something together
# azaroth ... Going to turn to you Evan?
# azaroth eprodrom: That's something we could do. There are bits of conformance spread throughout the docs
# dmitriz present+ dmitriz
# azaroth ... Can consolidate them, and like the role based mechanism that HTML5 has
# azaroth ... e.g. if you play this role, this is what conformance means to you
# azaroth ... could be a good way to bring it forward
# azaroth ... not sure it can be exhaustive, but at least cover the 80%
# azaroth [agreement]
# azaroth Arnaud: Can we get you to do that, and signal the group to review, and then iterate?
# azaroth eprodrom: It's on github?
# azaroth Arnaud: Yes. Sandro raised the issues
# azaroth ... Anything else to add? Otherwise I think we have a good plan
# azaroth Topic: Granularity of Features
# sandro https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/280 CR: What are the separate "features" of AS2?
# azaroth Arnaud: The spec does not really talk about features, but the exit criteria does.
# azaroth sandro: I don't think this has to be a big deal
# azaroth ... I linked from the issue to a table I look at all the time for ECMA6 features by platform
# azaroth ... when using it, what am I going to be compatible with
# azaroth ... The table would list the vocab terms, at a guess
# azaroth Arnaud: Turn to the group, any ideas?
# azaroth ... Expect the test suite to reflect those features by grouping tests per feature
# azaroth ... then the implementation report would be collected and consolidated
# azaroth ... the report would leverage those features
# azaroth ... Inline with what has been done for the browsers, who implements which features
# azaroth ... if we have enough, we declare victory :)
# azaroth ... Has an impact on the spec as they need to be defined
# azaroth ... And on the test suite and implementation report
# azaroth q+
# azaroth azaroth: Can they be by class (Event, Activity, Collection etc) or do they have to be smaller?
# azaroth sandro: might need to be smaller, if people want to do part of the section
# azaroth eprodrom: Refering to a particular list of features already done?
# azaroth sandro: No, could read the ToC as a list of features
# azaroth azaroth: Right, are there features that cross between sections, or can we divide up below the ToC
# azaroth sandro: Not sure what in core is separable
# azaroth ... hard to do anything without the core classes
# azaroth tantek: Curious for those who have implemented, interested to hear what you consider features?
# azaroth ... not sure how useful the borders on the map discussion is beyond an arbitrary delineation
# azaroth ... if no implementers, then just let Evan draw some lines
# azaroth Arnaud: I'm fine with this. Obvious choice is to ask the editors
# sandro FWIW, I don't think the TOC is a good fit in this case. Most of the features are under https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#properties
# azaroth tantek: The tech requirements are in the spec
# azaroth ... the feature should be just drawing lines, and if that's not the case then that would be good to know
# azaroth ... so just editorial
# azaroth Arnaud: If it impacts compliance/conformance, I don't think it's just editorial
# azaroth ... agree that the material is available for the grouping. Mostly editorial work, but if we define features then people may have an opinion about what belongs where and how many there are
# azaroth ... people will want to claim conformance to those features
# azaroth tantek: Agree, an excellent point. I think Evan has the best first cut at it
# azaroth Arnaud: Yes. Can we leave it to you Evan to make a proposal
# azaroth eprodrom: Yes, that makes a lot of sense. as a first cut I'll take the core and look at vocab
# azaroth ... my guess is vocab will be more lax as to conformance
# azaroth ... different kinds of application use different parts of the vocab
# azaroth ... we talked a bit about it previously meaning if you're using this vocab if you're doing this kind of thing
# azaroth Arnaud: Anything else?
# azaroth ... Once we've addressed the two issues we'll be back to where we thought we were before ... tackling the test suite
# azaroth Topic: Test Suite
# azaroth Arnaud: We'll need to wait for the feature set to be defined. Have bits contributed by different people, but no one has taken ownership to drive the effort and we need that
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# azaroth ... if someone has already volunteered I apologize and let me know
# Loqi Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-01-26]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97335&oldid=97332
# azaroth ... Often the editors that volunteer for the work, but not always realistic, so is there anyone willing to take the lead?
# azaroth ... doesn't mean doing all the work, just coordinating
# azaroth ... James would volunteer as he wants to see the work done, but he has a lot of responsibilities
# azaroth ... Would like to look for someone else
# azaroth eprodrom: I think that makes sense. We've got some efforts that have started, i wonder if we can get to a validator for the output from producers, and a test suite of documents that consumers should be able to consume, if that's good enough
# azaroth Arnaud: I think that someone needs to take a first crack at the test suite description, then we can discuss if it's adequate or if there's more to be done
# azaroth ... once we agree on the framework, we can have a set of docs, and people can contribute different parts
# azaroth eprodrom: I can take on setting out what I just described, and put it up as a proposal
# azaroth ... could start GH projects for them. Have a validator starting point from IBM, and taking the examples out of the spec would be a good step for the other
# azaroth ... Put those into a GH repository as a place to start collaborating
# azaroth Arnaud: I think that sounds great. Any other comments or ideas?
# azaroth ... Hearing none, that sounds like the plan
# azaroth ... Thank you Evan. Good thing you joined today ;)
# azaroth ... I think we can move on
# azaroth ... Hoping that James will finish up and we'll hear from him soon
# azaroth TOPIC: ActivityPub and MicroPub status
# azaroth sandro: Haven't look in the last 2 hours, but expect they'll go out Thursday
# azaroth ... pretty much mechanical from here on, unless something goes badly wrong
# azaroth aaronpk: I have draft ready to go, so just waiting on the pub process
# azaroth sandro: And similarly activity pub.
# azaroth Arnaud: Sounds good
# azaroth ... That takes care of the main discussions for the call, I believe. Two things left to discuss... actions... had a look a few weeks ago and ask people to close the ones that are done or irrelevant
# azaroth ... haven't seen much activity on that front. Can anyone give us an update on the open actions?
# azaroth ... seems weird to have a bunch that have been open for a long time
# azaroth ... if I were an AC rep and looking at the WG, I'd wonder what was going on
# azaroth ... So trying to nudge people to take action on the actions
# ben_thatmustbeme we have 1 action still open by someone not in the WG
# azaroth tantek: If there's open actions not in the WG, I think chairs should take ownership of them?
# azaroth Arnaud: How many do we have of those... a couple on Harry
# azaroth tantek: Harry, Henry, haven't heard from Elf in months ... chairs should have a look.
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# azaroth tantek: We should clean the room too :)
# azaroth Arnaud: Other than that ... Sandro ... do you want to talk about webex vs other?
# azaroth Topic: Webex
# azaroth sandro: Webex has been working okay recently for the group, but hearing reports of problems for others. I was wondering about other alternatives, and heard about UberConference
# azaroth ... no relation to the car ride company. Would you be willing to try it for a few weeks
# azaroth ... seems to support SIP, dial in, dial out. Not video, which we dont' use anyway
# azaroth ... maybe poke around there
# azaroth s@https://www.uberconference.com/sandro1@@
# azaroth maybe?
# azaroth ... if it doesn't work we can fall back to webex
# azaroth tantek: Perhaps the chairs should dogfood it first? If it works for us, we can try it with the WG
# eprodrom_ +1
# azaroth sandro: Okay, not next week, but maybe WG in a couple weeks
# Loqi Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/AS2 CR]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97337&oldid=87518
# azaroth ... especially looking for red flags
# azaroth Arnaud: People should investigate please.
# azaroth ... anyone with experience of it
# azaroth tantek: Not heard of it
# ben_thatmustbeme custom hold music... :)
# azaroth eprodrom: Used it extensively, simple to use, only used with 4-5 callers
# azaroth ... nice web UI
# azaroth Arnaud: sounds promising
# azaroth ... sandro, I've just seen a free option and the $10 business line?
# azaroth sandro: $10 per organizer. so per staff contact, but maybe per chair
# azaroth Arnaud: They really want you to sign up for the whole year
# azaroth ... we'll try it with the chairs, and others can take a look
# azaroth ... let us know any issues
# azaroth ... that brings us to the end of the agenda. Any other business?
# azaroth sandro: Any new people on the call?
# azaroth ... is Ira here this week?
# azaroth Arnaud: Will do that next week
# azaroth ... Will call it a day!
# azaroth ... Thanks to Rob for scribing, thanks to all for joining, see you all next week
# azaroth [Close of call]
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-social-minutes.html trackbot
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