#social 2016-02-16

2016-02-16 UTC
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97527&oldid=97519
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Loqi Abasset made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97528&oldid=97481
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Arnaud trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
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RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/16-social-irc
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trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot Date: 16 February 2016
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aaronpk present+
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azaroth Present+ Rob_Sanderson
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Arnaud present+
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ben_thatmustbeme present+
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Arnaud agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-16
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Arnaud chair: Arnaud
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sandro present+
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rhiaro present+
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AnnB present+
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KevinMarks present+
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rhiaro scribenick: rhiaro
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dmitriz present+
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cwebber2-2 present+ cwebber2
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rhiaro TOPIC: Approval of minutes
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cwebber2-2 grumbles at router
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rhiaro Arnaud: two sets to approve, last week, and from a copule of weeks ago
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i think they were fixed right after last meeting
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dromasca present+
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Arnaud https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-16
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Arnaud Approval of Minutes of 2016-01-26
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Arnaud https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-01-26-minutes
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rhiaro ... Any objections?
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rhiaro +1
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azaroth +1
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ben_thatmustbeme +1
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cwebber2-2 +1
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AnnB (wasn't there .. )
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Arnaud RESOLVED: Approved Minutes of 2016-01-26
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rhiaro ... And minutes from Feb 9
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Arnaud Approval of Minutes of 2016-02-09
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AnnB +1
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Arnaud https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-09-minutes
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ben_thatmustbeme +1
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dromasca +1
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cwebber2-2 +1
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Arnaud RESOLVED: Approved Minutes of 2016-02-09
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rhiaro ... Unfortunately when I was trying to put the agenda together yesterday it seemed not much had happened
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rhiaro ... I carried over topics from last week, mostly about AS2 publication
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rhiaro ... Trying to get there, no open issues, mostly a matter of getting the draft in shape so it can be published and reviewed by the group so that we can move on to CR
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rhiaro ... jasnell has been super busy with another project
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tsyesika present+
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rhiaro ... every week I ask him what the status is and he tells me that he's going to get it done this week, said the same thing yesterday, I did point out he tells me that every week, but hopefully he will eventually get to it
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rhiaro knows the feeling
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AnnB no kidding
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rhiaro sandro: I'm surprised to hear you say that there are no open issues; what happened to the issues we agreed to open a couple of weeks ago like conformance clause
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rhiaro Arnaud: I meant no technical issues
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rhiaro ... There's still the issue of conformance and definition of the features
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rhiaro ... I didn't expect Evan to also be absent today, he took the actions to take a crack at those things
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rhiaro ... The agreement is that he would take a crack at addressing those things and we would publish the new draft and the group woudl review and discuss, and assuming this gets settled we'd be able to close this
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rhiaro ... Then the only thing left would be the test suite
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rhiaro sandro: I just realised that we have a guest on the call who I was going to introduce
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rhiaro ... Natalie, can you hear me?
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rhiaro Natalie: Hello
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rhiaro sandro: You all my recall Harry Halpin was representin gthe dcent prorject which was an EU research project on decentralised technologies, and there were industrial partners implementing some of our technologies
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rhiaro ... Natalie is a representative of one of those, so we asked if she could join the call to give their feedback on AS2
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rhiaro ... With James and Evan not here, there might not be much use today
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ben_thatmustbeme Still scribing
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rhiaro ... But you could say hi
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cwebber2-2 hello Natalie!
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rhiaro Natalie: I guess I should give a summary next week, or would you like to have an idea today of how we found it?
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rhiaro Arnaud: I'd liek ot hear it, since we have time if you don't mind
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rhiaro ... Maybe not getting into too much technical details that absent people wouldn't want to miss, but more of a higher level would be interesting
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rhiaro Natalie: It was fairly straightforward to use, as just a format for the data. There are a few little things which I'm not sure why they're there and would have changed
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rhiaro ... like having an @ on type, it's extra work in clojure and I'm not sure what tha'ts for
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rhiaro notes that that is aliased now
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rhiaro ... Whether or not it's recommended to use the types in AS2 core, or if it's okay to make up your own, and what's intended, we weren't really sure
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azaroth q+ to +1 rhiaro re alias
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Zakim sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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rhiaro ... Another thing that we were originally using the words from the types themselves were being displayed to the user, but actually we needed to translate everything
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rhiaro ... Based on what the type was, rather than actually using the words themselves
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rhiaro ... In general through it was fairly striaghtforward. The examples were good
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rhiaro ... Someone has been working on having examples that people can test against, test parsers with, that's great. We've got tests already, but that's brilliant, and having more examples of what it should look like
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rhiaro ... I don't have much feedback other than little things
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rhiaro ... Another thing would be activities having incrementing ids
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rhiaro ... For ordering. Sometimes timestamps are thes ame
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rhiaro <rhiaro> Isn't that an implementation detail?
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rhiaro Natalie: That's pretty much all the things
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rhiaro ... Is everyone here familiar/using/involved?
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rhiaro Arnaud: Sounds positive overall, but one question is
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rhiaro ... maybe you should mention generally speaking what this project is about
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rhiaro ... I'm not sure everybody is aware. What do you actually do with AS2?
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rhiaro Natalie: at Thoughtworks we're building three tools as part of the dcent project. One of those tools, Mooncake, is a notifications tool
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rhiaro ... Mooncake consumes AS2
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rhiaro ... One of our other tools, Objective8, publishes activities
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rhiaro ... an example would be if someone creates a new objective or asks a question
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rhiaro ... these are possible actions in Objective8
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rhiaro ... That gets published through an API which Mooncake consumes
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rhiaro ... Sort of like a twitter feed, creates a new notification for any new objective or question
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rhiaro ... The idea of the notificaiton tool is to give users feedback on any activiyt or event having in their dcent ecosystem
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rhiaro ... Anything that's publishing activity streams that's connected to their instance of Mooncake
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Arnaud q?
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Zakim sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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rhiaro Arnaud: Thank you.
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Arnaud ack azaroth
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Zakim azaroth, you wanted to +1 rhiaro re alias
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rhiaro azaroth: I just wanted to ask a quick question
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro ... Mostly to +1 what Amy noted about @ in irc
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rhiaro ... In the most recent version id and type are aliased to @id and @type
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rhiaro ... Whether the documentation could be clearer about that that the intend is to use id and type and avoid the @s which would solve the problem
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rhiaro Natalie: Ah thank you. Looking at that now
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rhiaro sandro: does a json-ld processor naturally favour those aliases?
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rhiaro <rhiaro> does the context take care of that?
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rhiaro sandro: in generation, not parsing
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rhiaro azaroth: I believe yes
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rhiaro ... The playground does
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rhiaro ... To be tested, but..
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azaroth +1 to Sandro
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rhiaro sandro: so when we have a test suite it should be clear enough that the @ signs don't belong there because you'll get an error
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rhiaro Natalie: why are they there in the examplse?
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cwebber2-2 wait
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cwebber2-2 are @id and id an error in AS2?
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rhiaro sandro: they're in json-ld
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cwebber2-2 or is it just supported to have the alias
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cwebber2-2 sandro, ^^^
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rhiaro ... But we changed them to not need it in AS2
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azaroth cwebber2-2: Good question
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rhiaro Arnaud: do you actually use json-ld, or you read this as json?
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rhiaro Natalie: json
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rhiaro sandro: but you do use extensions right?
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rhiaro ... You have your own vocabulary for some of the things going on?
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rhiaro Natalie: What do you mean? I don't think we've added anything that's not in here
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rhiaro sandro: I had the impression from something I heard that when Objective8 is sending it's feed it's using a vocabulary that includes things relative to what Objective8 does, rather than just general AS2 things. Maybe I misunderstood
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rhiaro Natalie: No, just using AS2
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rhiaro Arnaud: This is interesting, touches a point i wanted to make
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rhiaro ... I wanted to point out that AS2 is meant to be extensible so you could add your own elements to it, to your stream, so you can carry extra information that is not part of the standard
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rhiaro ... Iw as going to ask if you use any extensions, so you just answered that, but I don't know if you're aware that you could
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azaroth q+ to +1 cwebber's question
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Zakim sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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rhiaro Natalie: surely the idea about the standards that if this is the data I'm publishing I'm assuming that any consumer will only accept the AS2 standard keys
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rhiaro ... So if I add my own that data will disappear it won't be used
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rhiaro Arnaud: You're right, any time you use some extension you won't achieve the same level of interoperability that you have otherwise. But there is a sweet spot we're trying to find where we're not trying to cover the world, and at the same time tryign to provide a core set of functionality taht will address most of your use cases, but leave the door open for those who need to go beyond
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Arnaud q?
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Zakim sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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rhiaro Natalie: I think a lot of what we were doing was around the usage of AS2 and trying out... I guess if you've got an endpoint that is being consumed by many things you might want that extensibility, but we were only being consumed by Mooncake which had the data in this format
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Arnaud ack azaroth
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Zakim azaroth, you wanted to +1 cwebber's question
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro ... Making it clear which is the data being consumed by AS2 consumers, and what is being consumed by other things
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rhiaro azaroth: Mooncake is a really awesome name btw
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KevinMarks it may not disappear - depends on the client. One workaround is to put mf2 in your content
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KevinMarks hm
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rhiaro ... cwebber2 had a good question
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rhiaro ... that @id would be an error?
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KevinMarks https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams links to http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html whcih 404s
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rhiaro sandro: if both are acceptable, every consumer has to understand both, so natalie's problem is not solved
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rhiaro ... Her code has to check for both
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rhiaro ... So I was assuming we'd make it an error bu tI don't know
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rhiaro ... Something someone should find in the spec, and make a test case
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rhiaro Arnaud: is natalie on irc?
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rhiaro ... Not that you have to be
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rhiaro ... but peopel make comments and side questions there
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rhiaro ... so if you hear people saying somebody else said this or that, they read it on irc
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rhiaro ... I realise if you're not on there it might sound a bit weird
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rhiaro ... Any other questions for natalie?
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rhiaro azaroth: Is someoen going to take an action to check that? Especially as the examples all say @ and that's an error, that's a CR blocker
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rhiaro Arnaud: was that volunteering?
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rhiaro azaroth: .......sure, I'll do it.
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sandro no good deed goes unpunished :-)
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rhiaro Arnaud: Thank you
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azaroth :)
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rhiaro Arnaud: Any other comments or questions?
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rhiaro sandro: I know a little bit of this, but Natalie do you have peopel using these tools now, or expectations about whether they'll be publich or who is using them going forward
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rhiaro Natalie: we don't have users, we do have a live demo
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rhiaro ... I can send the links to sandro
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rhiaro ... People go and play with that, it's a sandbox
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rhiaro ... at the moment we've got people looking at the other tools
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rhiaro ... Mooncake is more useful once you've a few things in the dcent ecosystem, at the moment we're only trying to get people to use one thing
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rhiaro ... Less useful if it's just oen thing
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rhiaro ... That being said, lots of people are looking at these tools so we'll see if anyone is interested
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rhiaro Arnaud: If you can send a link I'm sure peopel would like to have a look
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rhiaro sandro: How long will you be working on this? I understand dcent is winding down in a little bit
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rhiaro Natalie: At the moment (things change) the dcent project ends at the end of May, including THoughtworks involvement
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rhiaro ... Whether that will continue because there's more funding or we want to keep it going I'm not sure, but at the moment our end date is may
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rhiaro ... These tools are open source though
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/ThoughtWorksInc/mooncake
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rhiaro Arnaud: We're tryign to get to CR for AS2, which is when we as a working gropu declare that we have a spec that addresses our use cases and doesn't have any known technical issues, and that's when we're calling the world on implementation feedback
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rhiaro ... So hopefully we'll be there before the end of may and then you can provide some formal feedback
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rhiaro ... THat would be very helpful
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rhiaro ... Let's move on
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rhiaro ... I don't know what else we can talk about given the lack of editors
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rhiaro ... WAiting for Evan to get back to us on different pieces
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rhiaro ... Invited everyone else to add to the agenda, haven't seen any edits. Anything anyone wants to bring up?
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rhiaro KevinMarks: Issues were already on the agenda, and I posted a couple of issues based on external comments, mostly reposting exteral comments
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rhiaro ... on github, just to note I did that, to bring in some outside implementors who had questions and issues
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rhiaro Arnaud: do you think the spec needs to be modified?
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rhiaro KevinMarks: They're reactions to attempting to implement, so worth reading, but need clarifying to make actions to amend the spec
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rhiaro Arnaud: Thank you
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rhiaro sandro: Other possible agenda items, I wonder... we're four or five weeks from the f2f
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rhiaro ... Hopefully everybody has answered on the wiki whether they're coming
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rhiaro ... I assume the chairs will start to think about the agend,a but if people have goals or milestones they'd like to push for and have group support to push for, having some progress on each of our documents around the face to face, before or after, is probably important
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rhiaro ... So having the editors think about what's necessary to move their document forward
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rhiaro Arnaud: =1
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rhiaro s/=/+
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rhiaro Arnaud: there are quite a few document sin draft stages, I don't seem to see much activity, so I don't know what's going on
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rhiaro ... You can expect as the f2f gets closer, you will be asked what's going on
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ben_thatmustbeme for my doc its that i'm super busy
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rhiaro ... Always a question of whether people are busy which I understand, or if there's something that's blocking progress that we should tackle as a WG
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rhiaro ... Unless there's anything else we can close early
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rhiaro sandro: I forwarded Natalie's links, so if you want to go play with Mooncake or Objective8 during your remaining 35 minutes you can do that
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rhiaro Arnaud: Let's close on this, thank you all for joining
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AnnB rhiaro ++
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AnnB Arnaud++
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azaroth rhiaro++
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Loqi Arnaud has 30 karma
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Loqi rhiaro has 198 karma
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azaroth Natalie++
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Loqi Natalie has 1 karma
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Arnaud trackbot, end meeting
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trackbot is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot Zakim, list attendees
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Zakim As of this point the attendees have been aaronpk, Rob_Sanderson, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, sandro, rhiaro, AnnB, KevinMarks, dmitriz, cwebber2, dromasca, tsyesika
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azaroth Bye all :)
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trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/16-social-minutes.html trackbot
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trackbot RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent I see no action items
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wilkie rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 199 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro++ just because 200
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Loqi rhiaro has 200 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim bye
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, bye
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Zakim leaving. As of this point the attendees have been aaronpk, Rob_Sanderson, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, sandro, rhiaro, AnnB, KevinMarks, dmitriz, cwebber2, dromasca, tsyesika
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Loqi Rhiaro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-16-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97530&oldid=0
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Loqi Benthatmustbeme made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97531&oldid=97518
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