#social 2016-02-23
2016-02-23 UTC
bblfish joined the channel
# 
Loqi Abasset made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97583&oldid=97527
nicolagreco, bblfish, shepazu, jaywink and dmitriz joined the channel
# Loqi Eprodrom made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97590&oldid=97582
# Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97591&oldid=97590
shepazu and eprodrom joined the channel
# Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97592&oldid=97591
# 
ben_thatmust I won't be on today. Home sick
jtilles joined the channel
# Loqi Eprodrom made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97593&oldid=97528
# Loqi Eprodrom made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97594&oldid=97592
Karli and shevski joined the channel
# Karli hi
# eprodrom trackbot, start meeting
RRSAgent joined the channel
# 
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-social-irc
Zakim joined the channel
# eprodrom present+ eprodrom
# dmitriz present+
azaroth joined the channel
# eprodrom Can anyone scribe for this meeting?
# azaroth Present+ Rob_Sanderson
bengo joined the channel
# shevski present+
# bengo present+
dromasca joined the channel
# eprodrom scribenick: dmitriz
# dromasca present+
# eprodrom https://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
# dmitriz agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-23#Agenda
# dmitriz TOPIC: Approval of last week's minutes
# eprodrom PROPOSED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16
# eprodrom +1
# azaroth +1
# 
KevinMarks present+
# dromasca +1
# bengo +1
# eprodrom RESOLVED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16
# dmitriz TOPIC: Admin issues
# Loqi Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97595&oldid=97594
# Loqi Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97597&oldid=0
# dmitriz eprodrom: I'd like to recommend that people pay special attention to — we have a face-to-face meeting at MIT, on Mar 16. Please let us know if you're participating.
# dmitriz eprodrom: add an RSVP to that page whether you can or cannot make it (or if you can make it remotely). We will have remote participation
# dmitriz eprodrom: if remote, we expect you to be at a computer, with a microphone, as usual.
# shevski where exactly do we rsvp?
# dmitriz eprodrom: question is - where do we rsvp?
# shevski thx
# dromasca will this be a full one day mtg?
# dmitriz eprodrom: there is a section called 'Participation' on the page. edit the wiki to put your name is.
# dromasca 3/16,17
# dmitriz eprodrom: couple more questions. This is a full 2-day meeting, Mar 16 and 17
# dmitriz eprodrom: we are just starting to put together the agenda for this meeting
# dmitriz eprodrom: the two big agenda items are: 1) taking AS2 to CR (Candidate Recommendation)
# dmitriz eprodrom: and the next is: 2) determining the goals and next steps for our other documents
# dmitriz (webmention, micropub, activitypub, social protocols, and any other outstanding FPWDs that we have)
# dmitriz eprodrom: we are about 9 months away from the end of our charter
# dmitriz eprodrom: and so now is a good time for getting an idea of what we can do with the other deliverables
# dmitriz eprodrom: there'll be some fine point discussion of AS2
# dmitriz eprodrom: and also some fine point discussion of the other documents, to sketch out a roadmap for the next 9 months or beyond
# dmitriz eprodrom: any other questions about the Mar 16 event?
# dmitriz eprodrom: no questions, lets move on
# dmitriz TOPIC: Discussion about issues regarding Activity Streams 2.0
# dmitriz eprodrom: there are 3 big things we need to do to take AS2 to CR
# dmitriz eprodrom: 1) resolve outstanding issues.
# dmitriz eprodrom: according to James - Arnaud, do you want to take it?
# dmitriz Arnaud: no, go ahead
# dmitriz eprodrom: James is happy where the document is. And would like to take it to another Working Draft, which is what we would be discussing at our face to face
# dmitriz eprodrom: overall, we've had some new issues in the last couple of weeks, most of them either fine points or very general points
# dmitriz eprodrom: but there's no blocking issues, work can move forward
# dmitriz eprodrom: actually, the one big blocking issues that we do have is — conformance
# dmitriz eprodrom: which is in my corner right now
# dmitriz eprodrom: I'll be coordinating the next few days with James, to make sure we get the conformance section into the doc
# dmitriz eprodrom: I'll need to set up a PR, and make sure we get that section in there
# dmitriz eprodrom: before the next working draft
# dmitriz eprodrom: the next big point for AS2 is:
# dmitriz eprodrom: 2) Test suite
# dmitriz eprodrom: we have two sides to the test suite
# dmitriz eprodrom: one is - test documents. 100+ docs, useful for someone who is trying to parse ActivityStreams
# dmitriz eprodrom: this seems to be at a stable point, there is one PR to pull in the docs from James (I'll be working on that the next few days)
# dmitriz eprodrom: we're looking for other AS2 documents
# dmitriz eprodrom: the other side, that's under active development is the Validator
# dmitriz eprodrom: I'm continuing work on it, but looking for more participation there
# dmitriz eprodrom: the validator is pretty basic right now, basically giving a +1 / -1 on docs.
# dmitriz eprodrom: should be providing finer points / feedback on the spec, in addition
# dmitriz eprodrom: I'd like it to be showing a hierarchy of different kinds of notes or warnings on the AS2 docs posted
# dmitriz eprodrom: is it providing the right MIME Type, are there missing recommended properties, are there non-recommended properties present, that sort of thing
# Loqi Sandro made 5 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97606&oldid=97597
# Loqi Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97602&oldid=97595
# Loqi Kmarks2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97599&oldid=97593
# Loqi Dromasca made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97604&oldid=97599
# dmitriz eprodrom: my two big things over the next few weeks are: 1) to get conformance section added asap, and 2) get the validator to be a much more useful tool for implementors
# dmitriz eprodrom: hopefully it'll be ready by the March 16 meeting
# dmitriz eprodrom: any questions about AS2.0, and where we are?
# dmitriz eprodrom: test suite, conformance, etc?
# dmitriz bengo: I filed an issue on AS2 validator
# dmitriz bengo: the question is - are AS1 documents valid for AS2?
# dmitriz bengo: we have a few AS1 docs, should they be added to the test repos?
# dmitriz eprodrom: I can't say 100% on this, but my understanding is that we are NOT maintaining backwards compat with 1.0
# dmitriz eprodrom: so those AS1 docs would not be valid
# dmitriz eprodrom: the only role that AS1.0 docs would play in any sort of validation process, is — we do use Content-Type switching
# dmitriz eprodrom: so if you get the older Content-Type, you'll know it's AS1, if newer, AS2
# dmitriz eprodrom: and that'll be something worth taesting
# dmitriz eprodrom: that said, there's probably some value in converting the AS1 docs to AS2, and including them into the suite
# dmitriz bengo: I'll close the issue
# dmitriz eprodrom: your discussion about tweets on the agenda — it's a little farther down, will be discussed later today
# dmitriz eprodrom: actually, we are at that point!
# dmitriz TOPIC: Representing Tweets in AS2
# dmitriz bengo: this is relevant to what my employer does
# dmitriz bengo: social media aggregation from all the social networks.
# dmitriz bengo: the AS2 vocab is important to us for interop
# dmitriz bengo: tweets are sort of the straw man, but any big Social Media vocabs/schemas are relevant
# dmitriz bengo: I know we talked briefly before about having some sort of official registry
# eprodrom q?
# dmitriz bengo: I'm not sure how to proceed, curious what other people think
# eprodrom q+
# KevinMarks q+use URLS
# dmitriz bengo: what domain / dns record should this extension live on, in the long term, etc
# dmitriz bengo: I don't want this to be something that only we use
# eprodrom ack KevinMarks
# dmitriz KevinMarks: you don't need to create a new magic thing for Twitter
# eprodrom ack use
# eprodrom ack URLS
# dmitriz KevinMarks: you can actually construct the URLs using the tweet IDs, and use those as the AS2 object IDs
# dmitriz bengo: I'm hearing silence
# dmitriz Arnaud: same here
# bengo URLs good for use case. Was thinking about that on the way home yesterday. Still doesnt solve for the larger registry use case
# dmitriz KevinMarks: aaa, forgot to unmute!
# dmitriz KevinMarks: ben has mentioned earlier that he understood that there are different ways to do this
# dmitriz KevinMarks: the fact that Twitter has relatively good URLs is useful
# eprodrom dmitriz: that's me
# dmitriz KevinMarks: ben - why are the URLs not appropriate in this case?
# dmitriz whoops
# dmitriz who's speaking currently?
# eprodrom bengo
# dmitriz bengo: doesn't this require idiosyncratic handling for each of the big social network provider, to make the URLs?
# Loqi @bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1
# azaroth q+
# dmitriz bengo: what about changing usernames? that changes the URLs
# bengo KevinMarks: you're right I forgot
# eprodrom q=
# bengo q?
# eprodrom q-
# dmitriz eprodrom: actually, Twitter does the right thing and does 301 redirects
# eprodrom dmitriz: that was KevinMarks !
# KevinMarks if you fetch https://twitter.com/activity-streams/status/696429143659917312 you get a 301 to https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1
# Loqi @bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1
# dmitriz thanks. sorry, mixed up voices :)
# eprodrom He has the English accent; I sound like I live on the beach in San Diego
# dmitriz Rob: is there some other identity that's important to manage, aside from the twitter id?
# dmitriz bengo: for our particular use case, dereferencing to AS2 is less important
# KevinMarks twitter published an oembed json alternte, they could add an as2 one if they felt like it
# dmitriz bengo: it's more important to publish and aggregate
# bengo q+
# dmitriz this is eprodrom again?
# azaroth ack azaroth
# dmitriz eprodrom: we should do both
# dmitriz eprodrom: use the twitter URL for ID, and also have a snowflake property for twitter, in addition
# dmitriz eprodrom: so I think your question is, "how do you specify what that is? what the extension id is?"
# KevinMarks twitter has a json alternative already in https://api.twitter.com/1/statuses/oembed.json?id=696429143659917312
# bengo Draft extension on socialwg wiki?
# KevinMarks which you cna follow your node to
# dmitriz eprodrom: it seems to me like there's 2 possibilities. one is that we could have a property within AS2, for something like vendor_id or alternative_id or something like that
# dmitriz eprodrom: which is non-iri, non-url id
# eprodrom tweetID or snowflakeID
# dmitriz eprodrom: the other option is that it's simply an extension, tweet_id or snowflake_id
# dmitriz eprodrom: i would lean towards the second
# dmitriz eprodrom: it makes more sense to me there
# dmitriz eprodrom: ben, I think you were asking - what's the process for actually defining those extensions?
# dmitriz bengo: yeah. and I agree with you on the snowflakeID thing
# dmitriz bengo: the question is - where is a good place to register that extension vocab?
# dmitriz bengo: for the moment, we can just host it on the W3C wiki, and once there's an actual drafted extension, we can worry bout it then
# dmitriz eprodrom: right, we can throw a drafted extension pretty quickly on the wiki
# dmitriz eprodrom: and there may be other properties of a tweet that might need to go there
# dmitriz eprodrom: it's a pretty important use case, and I think we should be able to reach it
# dmitriz eprodrom: ben, I guess what I'm asking is, would you mind starting a Wiki page on this?
# dmitriz bengo: I don't mind, I will do that
# dmitriz eprodrom: awesome.
# dmitriz eprodrom: what would be ideal is - being able to take something like "anatomy of a tweet"
# dmitriz eprodrom: no, that's not it
# dmitriz eprodrom: there is a page on the Twitter Developer site that shows taking Twitter's JSON step by step, explaining what everything does
# dmitriz eprodrom: we should be able to map those relatively directly to AS2 format
# dmitriz eprodrom: and in places that we can't, there should be an extension mechanism
# dmitriz bengo: sounds good
# dmitriz eprodrom: great, let's move on
# dmitriz TOPIC: Update on MicroPub
# dmitriz eprodrom: aaron?
# dmitriz aaronpk: I've been working on incorporating issues on Micropub
# dmitriz aaronpk: over on github. here's the link to the latest draft with the changes
# dmitriz aaronpk: basically, the changes are - updated the normative references
# dmitriz aaronpk: mistakenly made a bunch of them non-normative
# dmitriz aaronpk: added a section on querying the source of posts, for editing
# dmitriz aaronpk: working on a couple other things, will have another draft published for the next meeting
# dmitriz aaronpk: please review GitHub issues and changes
# dmitriz aaronpk: and file any CR-blocking issues sooner rather than later
# dmitriz aaronpk: so I can address them. I'd like to make a bunch of progress this week
# dmitriz aaronpk: any other questions
# dmitriz eprodrom: I have a general question
# dmitriz eprodrom: and leads to our next agenda item
# dmitriz TOPIC: Laying out a Roadmap for the next 9 Months in our F-to-F
# dmitriz eprodrom: the big thing that I'd like to ask is - would you mind, over the next few days,
# dmitriz eprodrom: thinking about what our next steps are, with MicroPub
# dmitriz eprodrom: what's needed, what are the big outstanding issues, are there problems
# dmitriz eprodrom: and what do we do to take it to the next steps
# dmitriz eprodrom: Arnaud and Sandro - is that what we're looking for?
# dmitriz Arnaud and Sandro: yes
# dmitriz eprodrom: so, we're looking for the next steps, with MP
# dmitriz Sandro: I went ahead and made a wiki page for the status of all our current docs
# dmitriz sandro: if somebody has a better organization, that's fine
# dmitriz eprodrom: fantastic, that's great, thank you for doing that, Sandro
# dmitriz eprodrom: we'd like to start collecting the status
# dmitriz eprodrom: we've had kind of an explosion of docs over the last couple of months
# dmitriz eprodrom: so now the question is - where are we taking them next?
# dmitriz eprodrom: so if we can update the status on the wiki, it'll help us make decisions during the f-to-f
# dmitriz eprodrom: any questions from the editors?
# dmitriz that's chris?
# eprodrom dmitriz: that's aaronpk
# dmitriz aaronpk: it occurred to me that I'd like to publish another draft, and I would like people to review the current draft
# dmitriz eprodrom: any other questions from editors? if not, happy to move on with agenda
# dmitriz eprodrom: no questions
# dmitriz eprodrom: next, I'm gonna ask Chris and Jessica about federation work
# dmitriz TOPIC: Micropub Federation Work
# dmitriz tsyesika: I've been working over the last 1.5 years to bring federation to MediaGoblin
# dmitriz tsyesika: to implement AS1.0 via Pump.io API
# 
cwebber2 https://identi.ca/mediagoblin/image/yCNd5dD-S8GL-DCwh50CPw <- mediagoblin federating TO pump.io!
# dmitriz tsyesika: last week, I had the first instance of federating media from MediaGoblin via Pump.io
# dmitriz tsyesika: currently polishing it up
# dmitriz tsyesika: I've got receiving federated activities still to do
# dmitriz tsyesika: but shouldn't be too much work
# dmitriz thanks
# dmitriz this is eprodrom?
# dmitriz eprodrom: couple of questions for you -
# dmitriz can you repeat the questions?
# dmitriz eprodrom: 1) how will AP be improved by your experience implementing federation?
# dmitriz eprodrom: 2) how will MediaGoblin make use of AP in the future?
# dmitriz tsyesika: I'm not sure about #1
# bengo tsyesika: cwebber2: Is there a web sequence diagram for how this works? It would be helpful to refer to
# dmitriz tsyesika: a lot of the work has just been based on going through and formalizing the various aspects, trying to make the specs more concise
# dmitriz tsyesika: but I think it was a very good foundation to base on
# dmitriz tsyesika: as for question 2, my funding will be running out at MediaGoblin,
# dmitriz tsyesika: but I hope to continue working - I know Chris wants to continue federation work
# dmitriz tsyesika: I'm hoping to get ActivityPub support when it's a littl emore mature
# bengo cwebber2: I'd benefit from it! https://www.websequencediagrams.com/ is good too
# dmitriz eprodrom: thank you very much, and congrats on the work, it's really impressive
# dmitriz eprodrom: oh, last question - if people want to take a look at this particular code,
# dmitriz eprodrom: is it on the master branch?
# dmitriz tsyesika: no, not on master. I have a fork of it
# dmitriz tsyesika: that I use, so that the main repo doesn't get cluttered up
# dmitriz tsyesika: I'll make a push after the meeting, so that people can see it
# dmitriz eprodrom: yeah, if you can push it and share the branch on the channel or mailing list that'd be really helpful
# dmitriz eprodrom: fantastic, thank you very much
# dmitriz eprodrom: that does take us to the end of our scheduled agenda
# dmitriz eprodrom: we are a little more than 10 mins ahead of the hour
# dmitriz eprodrom: this is the time where we go over issues from Tracker
# dmitriz eprodrom: as I'm looking, we don't have any new or pending issues
# dmitriz eprodrom: but I do want to give a moment to see if we have any updates on issues from Tracker
# 
tsyesika https://notabug.org/Tsyesika/federated-mediagoblin/src/federation <- this will be where i'll push to
# dmitriz eprodrom: this is becoming less and less frequent as we're moving our issue tracking to GitHub, but it's worthwhile to still do it
# dmitriz eprodrom: if not, open it up to any other questions or business we need to discuss
# dmitriz eprodrom: ok, unless there's anything else to discuss,
# dmitriz eprodrom: — jessia, please push soon AND take a hard drive backup! :) don't tempt fate
# dmitriz eprodrom: otherwise I'd like to offer everyone their 10 mins back
# dmitriz eprodrom: and thanks Tantek for chairing the meeting
# dmitriz thanks
# eprodrom trackbot, end meeting
# KevinMarks ?
# dmitriz how do I stop scribing?
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-social-minutes.html trackbot
# KevinMarks how was tantek chairing?
# eprodrom dmitriz: I just did the main thing
# dmitriz thanks :)
# eprodrom KevinMarks: sorry, Tantek is chairing next week
# dmitriz sorry bout the name confusion :)
# dmitriz do I do the 'generate minutes' thing now?
# eprodrom Tantek _will_ chair the meeting next week
# 
wilkie dmitriz: now you have to draft the minutes in the wiki, which you can do by clicking on "convert" here: http://pandoc.amy.gy/ and pasting those in the red-link at https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-23
# eprodrom dmitriz: yes, last step
# dmitriz rrsagent, generate minutes
# eprodrom dmitriz, they are here
# dmitriz what do I do with them? cut from the social-minutes doc and paste into the wiki?
# eprodrom That's right
# eprodrom That's where they're supposed to go
# eprodrom Sorry, here are the steps:
# eprodrom 1) Go to http://pandoc.amy.gy/
# eprodrom 2) It will guess the URL based on today's date, so just click "convert"
# eprodrom 3) Take the mediawiki-formatted output and copy it to https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg/2016-02-23-minutes&action=edit&redlink=1
# dmitriz brilliant
# eprodrom ...and save
# dmitriz do I need to add the chair?
# eprodrom It feels like there's a level of automation that could happen here
# eprodrom Sure, if you'd like
# eprodrom It's worth a couple of minutes to scan it over
# dmitriz will do
# dmitriz (first draft saved)
# eprodrom wilkie: they really should
# dmitriz cwebber2/tsyesika — I'm still planning to do a PR to AP for streams discovery etc, as discussed previous weeks
# dmitriz and expand the authz section
# Loqi Dmitriz made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97608&oldid=0
# dmitriz (just have the minor edits PR out there, for the moment)
bengo, bblfish and bblfish_ joined the channel
# tsyesika just a heads up, I've pushed, https://notabug.org/Tsyesika/federated-mediagoblin/commit/f2b1615c50432ea5ede1c905a8d8f3dff1d3f7aa as I promised in the meeting :)
jaywink joined the channel
bengo_, nicolagreco, bengo, KevinMarks, bblfish and bblfish_ joined the channel
bblfish, bengo, bblfish_, bengo_ and KevinMarks joined the channel