#social 2016-11-22

2016-11-22 UTC
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@JefferyRPowers The latest De La Crème Marketing Daily! http://paper.li/JefferyRPowers/1425169611?edition_id=00c4ebc0-b04b-11e6-b4da-0cc47a0d1605 Thanks to @SocialWebWG #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/800918449539035136)
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ben_thatmustbeme is trying to get together an AS2 implementation report
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ben_thatmustbeme at elast for what he has had live for some time
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ben_thatmustbeme it passes validator, i'm sure I can make improvements though
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cwebber2 hi
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cwebber2 no call today, right?
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tantek call is a go
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tantek per wanting to publish things today
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cwebber2 ah
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cwebber2 ok!
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tantek yes - we discussed it at the f2f :)
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aaronpk aw crap i packed my headphones
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@oshepherd @steveklabnik @mistydemeo disclaimer: I may exhibit some bias because I authored the initial draft of https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ (twitter.com/_/status/801104313158340609)
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tantek hmm we don't have an agenda yet
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tantek I do remember there were several items we decided (during the f2f) to discuss today
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tantek I just don't remember what they all were
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tantek I'm not going to get Post Type Discovery edits done in time for this telcon, so that's off the table for today
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tantek Oh I remember one thing
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tantek we were going to try to review updated editor's drafts of AS2 and WebSub for publication
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tantek anything else?
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tantek steps out for a minute in the hopes that https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-22 appears when he returns ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme i believe that we wanted to review websub edits, there were changes to ap that you were going to hopefully have in quickly, PTD
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aaronpk yes i have websub edits to review
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ben_thatmustbeme i created the page, aaronpk can you add those to the agenda
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ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2: wasn't there some changes for AP you were trying to get in quickly
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cwebber2 dials in... noone seems here
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ben_thatmustbeme hopefully by today, if memory serves
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cwebber2 ben_thatmustbeme: there are editorial changes...
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ben_thatmustbeme i thought we were trying to get some changes in before we published a new WD
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cwebber2 I don't recall a "by today" for those, but I recall a get up the testing stuff asap
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cwebber2 ben_thatmustbeme: there's no new WD afaik
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aaronpk can someone PM me the conference code?
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ben_thatmustbeme my memory is slipping
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cwebber2 is the call up?
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sandro yes?
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sandro Ben and I are on it
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: check your DMs
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aaronpk thx
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders where chairs are
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eprodrom Hi all
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eprodrom On my way in
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sandro trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
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RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-social-irc
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trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim ok, trackbot
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trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot Date: 22 November 2016
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cwebber2 I guess I can scribe
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sandro got for it cwebber2
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cwebber2 k
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cwebber2 scribenick: cwebber2
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cwebber2 eprodrom: let's get started
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cwebber2 eprodrom: I guess we have three big items that we need to get to
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cwebber2 ... let's get started with the minutes
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eprodrom PROPOSED: approve https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-08-minutes as minutes for Nov 8 meeting
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ben_thatmustbeme confirms you were scribe last meeting eprodrom
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ben_thatmustbeme s/scribe/chair/
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cwebber2 +1
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cwebber2 <cwebber2> +1
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ben_thatmustbeme +1
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aaronpk I see "RESOLUTION: cancel Tuesday Nov 15 2016 telecon" in those minutes
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eprodrom +1
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sandro +1
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eprodrom RESOLVED: approve https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-08-minutes as minutes for Nov 8 meeting
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cwebber2 eprodrom: alright, since we have all +1s marked as resolved
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cwebber2 ... now onto the slightly more difficult process of our face to face minutes, which have traditionally been our ???
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cwebber2 ... traditionally been a weak point
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cwebber2 ... we have a lot of minutes we drop out for our f2f meetings
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cwebber2 ... so I guess the question goes to our scribes for our most recent meetings (along with myself and tantek since we're ultimately responsible) on how to get up minutes for 17th and 18th
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cwebber2 ... there they are
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cwebber2 ben_thatmustbeme: yeah I already generated them
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cwebber2 eprodrom: fantastic
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eprodrom PROPOSED: APPROVE https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-17-minutes as first day minutes for Nov 17 2016 f2f
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ben_thatmustbeme should we wait a week for people to have time to read them?
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eprodrom PROPOSED: APPROVE https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-17-minutes and APPROVE https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-18-minutes as minutes for Nov 17 2016 f2f
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cwebber2 haha, my goblin model appears mid-meeting
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk that's so many minutes
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aaronpk it's almost... hours
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tantek present+
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ben_thatmustbeme present+
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cwebber2 eprodrom: yeah, that's many minutes
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cwebber2 tantek: has anyone had a chance to read them?
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cwebber2 eprodrom: we could pause and review for next week
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cwebber2 tantek: will confess I haven't had a chance to read them myself
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ben_thatmustbeme q+ to remind everyone to present+ themselves
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Zakim sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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ben_thatmustbeme q-
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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eprodrom ack ben_thatmustbeme
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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eprodrom present+
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cwebber2 present+
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cwebber2 eprodrom: so I'd like to table this proposal and take it for next week's meeting to be sure we put it on the agenda for then
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cwebber2 ... getting those meeting minutes up
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cwebber2 ... so we can go on from approving minutes and see what our agenda is for today
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cwebber2 ... ok great
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cwebber2 ... so first item on agenda is websub
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aaronpk present+
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cwebber2 ... julian or aaron, are you on?
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tantek chair: eprodrom
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cwebber2 aaronpk: I'm on
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cwebber2 eprodrom: mind leading agenda on websub, what's next?
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tantek s/julian/julien
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cwebber2 aaronpk: sure, so since friday I've been working on merging pull requests & resolving issues
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aaronpk https://w3c.github.io/websub/
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cwebber2 ... those are all incorporated now and the editor's draft is now up to date at the new URL here
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tantek nice work
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cwebber2 ... the rename is complete
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cwebber2 ... so definitely review that, the major differences are the discovery section where we hashed out the ??? and put the host-meta at risk, capability URL is now in
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cwebber2 ... there are still several issues open and some pull requests I'd like to review, but the majority of things discussed in meeting are now incorporated
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cwebber2 ... we're hoping to publish the ED at the new w3 url with the rename
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cwebber2 ... I believe that new shortname was approved, so we just need to stage that for publication
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cwebber2 ... my main questions for the group is how much we need to wait for the rest of / getting through more issues
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cwebber2 ... or is this enough to warrant a new WD?
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cwebber2 tantek: I'd like to see a ChangeLog
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cwebber2 aaronpk: great idea
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cwebber2 tantek: that's required for publication in my view
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cwebber2 aaronpk: yeah, didn't realize it wasn't there, will add it
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cwebber2 ... right after this call
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cwebber2 eprodrom: anything else you'd like to put in front of the group for websub?
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cwebber2 aaronpk: nope
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cwebber2 eprodrom: do we need another WD?
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cwebber2 aaronpk: we need to do another WD for the rename. Question is whether to close more issues before working draft or is incorporation of changes from F2F discussion sufficient for new WD
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cwebber2 eprodrom: so we have open issues... what's the expected timeframe for closing remaining issues?
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cwebber2 aaronpk: not totally sure
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cwebber2 ... they're all similar scope to other ones, nothing super unusual
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cwebber2 ... just a matter of talking through them on github
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cwebber2 eprodrom: ok... 1 week? 2 weeks? 6 weeks?
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cwebber2 aaronpk: I imagine many more closed before next call
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cwebber2 eprodrom: what's your preference
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cwebber2 aaronpk: WD are easy to do, so I'd prefer to do one sooner to get new short url in place
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cwebber2 eprodrom: so what I'd like to propose is we publish a new WD of websub
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cwebber2 ... based on ED of ??? 22
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ben_thatmustbeme conditional on changelog
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cwebber2 ... with a changelog
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eprodrom PROPOSED: publish new working draft of Websub based on editor's draft of Nov 22 with a changelog
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cwebber2 cwebber2: +1
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cwebber2 tantek: all changes for difficult stuff done from the f2f?
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ben_thatmustbeme s/of ??? 22/ of 11\/22
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cwebber2 aaronpk: I believe so?
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cwebber2 tantek: the stuff that took more time than we expected
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cwebber2 aaronpk: yes I believe so, those have been worked on over the weekend and this morning
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aaronpk https://github.com/w3c/websub/issues/53
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cwebber2 ... I think most of that got wrapped up in issue 53 there
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cwebber2 what did I minute wrong
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eprodrom +1
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cwebber2 tantek: +1
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ben_thatmustbeme +1
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aaronpk +1
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sandro +1
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek was citing minutes at 13:19:19 (by my client) aaronpk
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eprodrom RESOLVED: publish new working draft of Websub based on editor's draft of Nov 22 with a changelog
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ben_thatmustbeme websub++
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Loqi websub has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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ben_thatmustbeme HOPEFULLY LAST
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cwebber2 eprodrom: good, so that's the last item on our agenda for today, so next thing we should do is walk through document status for our documents
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cwebber2 ... can talk about where we are for each one
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cwebber2 ... with the exception of websub
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ben_thatmustbeme I know tantek had some PTD updates
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cwebber2 ... hopefully we don't' need to swap around for chair
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cwebber2 tantek: I can do a verbal summary of PTD
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eprodrom Other document status?
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cwebber2 eprodrom: let's do PTD, then I'll do AS2, then I'll ask the group... do we have other documents with updated status we'd like to discuss
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cwebber2 <cwebber2> no changes to report
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cwebber2 aaronpk: no changes to report
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cwebber2 eprodrom: let's put tantek and PTD first.. if you have something to discuss, put yourself on the agenda
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cwebber2 tantek: not ready for new version this week, but hopefully next week
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cwebber2 ... some commenters were looking for multiple post types coming out of the algorithm, what should you do if you want multiple post types
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cwebber2 ... so that's the first thing to do is to support multiple post types as the output while still keeping the notion of a primary type for implementations that want to say "if you ahve to pick here's what to pick"
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cwebber2 ... so that's one new approach we hadn't previously discussed
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cwebber2 ... second thing is I learned of ben_thatmustbeme converting MF2 to AS2 today, so I'm hoping to look into that to see how much of post type discovery he's implemented there
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cwebber2 ... since that's a key feature of PTD
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cwebber2 ... so those are my two updates, any comments or questions
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cwebber2 eprodrom: any questions?
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cwebber2 tantek: or anything that needs to be in next WD? otherwise I'll make fixes and propose it
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: looks like no we don't have any questions, queue seems empty. so thanks for the update tantek, good to see this process moving along
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cwebber2 tantek: ok more next week then
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cwebber2 eprodrom: I'm going to take this opportunity to give an update on AS2
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cwebber2 ... we generated quite a few issues to AS2 last week. we were down to 2, and we cleared out 1 during our meeting and added 6 more, plus resolved one with some new text (and one that was difficult, the default language one)
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cwebber2 ... I have not pushed a new version to ED unfortunately, I need to get that done. goal is to get that done for next meeting. I'd prefer to have it done by the end of th week so people can review by next meeting
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cwebber2 ... the other main item for me is the AS2 validator, holding off until we can make changes to document itself because somehting needs to be updated in validator specifically around SHOULDs and MAYs
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cwebber2 ... some of the things SHOULDs prev are now slightly weakened
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cwebber2 ... any questions on AS2?
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cwebber2 tantek: hoping to get an ED with changlog for next week for consideration for CR?
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cwebber2 eprodrom: that's exactly it
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ben_thatmustbeme I just wanted to point out a new Implementation Report PR is in eprodrom
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cwebber2 ... ok great
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cwebber2 ... I'll check our agenda for updates, looks like as2 is still at bottom, so I think we've come to the end of our agenda
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cwebber2 ... anything else to discuss?
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cwebber2 ... ok otherwise we'll get our remaining minutes back... last week was very productive so we're all probably talked out
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cwebber2 ... so, wrap up the meeting and look forward to next meeting on the 29th
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cwebber2 tantek: reminder, review the F2F logs for last week
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eprodrom OK, I just dropped!
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eprodrom Thanks everyone.
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eprodrom trackbot, end meeting
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Zakim As of this point the attendees have been tantek, ben_thatmustbeme, eprodrom, cwebber, aaronpk
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trackbot Zakim, list attendees
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trackbot is ending a teleconference.
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cwebber2 tantek: sounds like evan dropped off, so thanks everyone!
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cwebber2 np!
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ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2++
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Loqi cwebber2 has 82 karma
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trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-social-minutes.html trackbot
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trackbot RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent I see no action items
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cwebber2 trackbot, end meeting
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Zakim As of this point the attendees have been tantek, ben_thatmustbeme, eprodrom, cwebber, aaronpk
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trackbot is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot Zakim, list attendees
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tantek cwebber2++ for minuting!
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Loqi cwebber2 has 83 karma
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trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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trackbot RRSAgent, bye
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aaronpk short but sweet
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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aaronpk and changelog is in place: https://w3c.github.io/websub/index.html#changes-from-20-october-fpwd-to-this-version
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ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom, Would you rather i wait until i have sort of stabilized my MF2->AS2 converter to submit a PR
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ben_thatmustbeme I already created one for the current status
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ben_thatmustbeme but I do plan on adding more features
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ben_thatmustbeme also this means every page on my site has AS2 equivalents
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eprodrom !
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eprodrom In terms of an implementation report?
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eprodrom No that's grrrrrrrrrrreat
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ben_thatmustbeme yes
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eprodrom Please go for it!
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ben_thatmustbeme <link href="http://stream.thatmustbe.us/?op=mf2-as2&url=https%3A%2F%2Fben.thatmustbe.me%2F%2F" rel="alternate" type="application/activity+json" />
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ben_thatmustbeme have something like that on every page so it handles all my mf2->as2 as a service others can use too
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ben_thatmustbeme a lot of types aren't handled yet
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aaronpk hm how long do i have to wait for github pages to recognize a new file
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aaronpk maybe it cached the 404 page
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wilkie it should be fairly immediate
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: would be interesting to know 1) the list of properties->types that *are* handled, and 2) if multiple properties are represented as multiple types
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: part 1 is covered in the impl rep. But basically it currently handles RSVP, Reply, Like, Note from the PTD side
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tantek great
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ben_thatmustbeme I started with those as those were the simplest and lined up the best (and also I don't support some of the other types on my site yet)
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ben_thatmustbeme not quite sure what you mean by #2 there
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tantek #2 is for multi-type posts
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tantek e.g. a photo and a note
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tantek or a like and a repost
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tantek they are rare but some folks keep bringing them up as stuff they (want to) support
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tantek e.g. if your h-entry has both a u-like-of and a u-repost-of (likely the same URL) then how do you represent it?
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tantek and should we only allow of the same URL for that? or allow a single post to be a like of one post and a repost of another (I say no - that should fallback to just one of those two)
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tantek (because it sounds like an error, like no UI should sensibly ever generate that)
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tantek hey aaronpk did you mean to *normatively* reference PuSH 0.3 and 0.4?
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tantek https://w3c.github.io/websub/index.html#changes-from-20-october-fpwd-to-this-version says "informative reference to previous versions of the spec" and yet they're listed under https://w3c.github.io/websub/index.html#normative-references
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aaronpk julien added those
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tantek ok that contradiction needs to be resolved before publishing
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aaronpk they are just listed here https://w3c.github.io/websub/#high-level-protocol-flow
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aaronpk i don't see how those could be a normative reference so i can fix it
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tantek right
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aaronpk here's the staged doc https://w3c.github.io/websub/wd.html
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Loqi [Julien Genestoux] WebSub
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, yeah, tantek, i didn't hit any of those because of the limited number of types i have used thus far. although i suppose something could be a Like and a Reply right now, but I have no examples of that really
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tantek yes that's the problem I run into also - very few (any?) real world examples of the multi-type stuff
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tantek I think I'll restrict it accordingly, and then challenge people who want that functionality to demonstrate real world examples
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, I can't think of any real world multi type examples like that
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Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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Loqi good riddance
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ben_thatmustbeme Loqi is so mean to Zakim :P
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aaronpk be nice to Loqi and maybe he'll start being nice too ;-)
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aaronpk Loqi++
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Loqi loqi has 6 karma in this channel (407 overall)
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tantek next week's telcon agenda is up! https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-11-29
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tantek takes another crack at updating random out of date details on our home page
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tantek Looks like we have a list of the CGs we should reach out to (their chairs) to get folks to join the SWICG for any future incubations
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tantek aaronpk, cwebber2 take a look at https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#All_Social_Web_Related_CGs and see if you can contact their chairs and invite them to both join SWICG and close the old CGs accordingly
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tantek also if there are CGs missing there - feel free to add (I know ben_thatmustbeme found a few more random ones)
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