2017-08-29 UTC
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# 15:22 aaronpk Having trouble editing the wiki to add my probable regrets so here they are # 15:22 xmpp-social [ajordan] aaronpk: :( # 15:23 xmpp-social [ajordan] Want to leave us a PR update? cdchapman joined the channel
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# 17:02 tantek hmm been trying to call in but Webex isn't answering RRSAgent joined the channel
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# 17:03 Zakim tantek, you need to end that query with '?' # 17:03 Zakim On IRC I see RRSAgent, ajordan_, tantek, cdchapman, timbl, KjetilK__, xmpp-social, wilkie, ben_thatmustbeme, dwhly, jankusanagi_, Loqi, bigbluehat, jet, rhiaro, Gargron, dlongley, # 17:03 Zakim ... cwebber2, oshepherd, bwn, nightpool, trackbot, MMN-o, csarven, jaywink, sknebel, tsyesika, astronouth7303, puckipedia, raucao, tcit, mattl, DenSchub, saranix, aaronpk, bitbear, ajordan joined the channel
# 17:11 sandro tantek: question 1 - every week or every other week. question 2 - 60 or 90 minute meetings # 17:11 rhiaro I can't make next week, but don't let me stop anyone else # 17:12 sandro ajordan: It seems to me we've getting more done in 90 minute meetings. I'd rather have more meetings now and relax later, then be squeezing things in before the deadline # 17:12 sandro aj: so I suppose I'm suggesting weekly 90 mins # 17:13 sandro sandro: Sounds okay to me, but I'm not paged in on agenda # 17:14 sandro cwebber2: I have mixed feelings. I think biweekly 90 minute is pretty good. I wouldn't want biweekly 60. # 17:15 sandro tantek: the two weeks blocks seemed productive, that was my impression # 17:15 sandro tantek: Did anyone feel like we would have gotten more done if we met every week? # 17:15 sandro tantek: From chairs perspective, every two weeks felt more focused, less tedious # 17:16 ajordan I know I suggested weekly but I don't feel strongly against biweekly # 17:17 sandro cwebber2: Lets do 90 minute bi-weekly, but if run low on time, we can fill in the intermediate meeting # 17:17 sandro tantek: Didn't hear anything from Evan about this. # 17:18 sandro PROPOSED: Biweekly up-to-90-minute meetings, starting Sept 6, with the option of filling in the missing weeks if we have lots to talk about # 17:19 sandro RESOLVED: Biweekly up-to-90-minute meetings, starting Sept 6, with the option of filling in the missing weeks if we have lots to talk about # 17:20 Zakim sees cwebber, rhiaro on the speaker queue # 17:22 sandro rhiaro: It kind of looks better to have impls from outside the group # 17:22 sandro cwebber2: I don't actually know if it would speed the process # 17:22 sandro tantek: I worry a little that these meeting details might dampen their energy # 17:24 sandro cwebber2: I wanted to make sure the spec for adding extensions ...... assuming the CG voted to add something .... # 17:24 sandro cwebber2: Do we talk to Amy to get it committed? # 17:24 rhiaro The process should not be tied to a named person! # 17:24 ajordan second question: what do CGs even have authority to publish? Notes? nothing REC-track I'm assuming # 17:27 sandro sandro: two obvious options: w3c staff or github repo # 17:27 sandro sandro: slight concern if/when Amy and I leave the staff # 17:28 rhiaro I was gonna vaguely handwave what sandro is saying # 17:29 ajordan if we go with the GitHub repo it would make sense to me to set Evan/Jason as the gatekeepers? since they're the editors actually listed on the spec # 17:29 sandro sandro: third option, maybe webreq can do it -- I think that's policy # 17:30 sandro action: sandro find out if webreq can handle namespace document, or if there's a better solution # 17:30 trackbot Created ACTION-91 - Find out if webreq can handle namespace document, or if there's a better solution [on Sandro Hawke - due 2017-09-05]. # 17:31 sandro sandro: in any of the three cases, I see the chairs as formally recognizing consensus and informing github or staff # 17:31 sandro ajordan: so it almost doesnt matter which mechanism we use timbl joined the channel
# 17:32 sandro cwebber2: Mastodon is rolling out AS2 with sensitive tag # 17:33 sandro .. they could use their own term, but it's going to rolled out, so should it be in AS2? # 17:33 sandro .. we'll be talking about this in CG tomorrow # 17:35 sandro tantek: If you're looking for input, the CG is responsible for this kind of decision, so you the CG needs to come up with how to evaluate extensions, maybe, instead of making lots of one-off decisions # 17:36 sandro .. if you decide on some criteria, I dont think the CG is bound by WG requirements, but COULD consider things like 2-implementations # 17:36 sandro .. I leave that as something for CG to resolve # 17:36 ajordan I would suggest discussing this directly on the CG call, even if the chairs make the final decision about criteria # 17:37 sandro cwebber2: Maybe I should reach out to jasnell direction re hashtag # 17:39 sandro tantek: w3c process to seek out dissenting opinion and try to incorporate it # 17:39 Loqi [cwebber] #254 Should "endpoints" be dropped? # 17:39 sandro topic: ActivityPub clarifying scope of endpoints (#254) # 17:40 sandro cwebber2: question was does anyone like this design # 17:41 sandro .. having raised that, some people like tsyesika explained there's a good reason to keep it # 17:41 sandro .. it's very messy to have all these properties not really about actor be on the actor # 17:42 sandro .. (2) (from puck) move sharedInbox out of there, make it client-to-server only # 17:43 sandro .. so with (1) endpoints are shared across on whole domain, or with (2) it's just in c2s # 17:43 Zakim Present: sandro, tantek, rhiaro, ajordan, cwebber, tsyesika # 17:44 Zakim sees on irc: timbl, ajordan, Zakim, RRSAgent, tantek, cdchapman, KjetilK__, xmpp-social, wilkie, ben_thatmustbeme, dwhly, jankusanagi_, Loqi, bigbluehat, jet, rhiaro, Gargron, # 17:44 Zakim ... dlongley, cwebber2, oshepherd, bwn, nightpool, trackbot, MMN-o, csarven, jaywink, sknebel, tsyesika, astronouth7303, puckipedia, raucao, tcit, mattl, DenSchub, saranix, # 17:44 sandro cwebber2: This would affect implementations, and be a new-CR change, fwiw # 17:44 cwebber2 PROPOSAL: rephrase description of endpoints to clarify that its scope is for endpoints that tend to be shared on a domain/server # 17:44 sandro cwebber2: this would not be a normative change # 17:45 sandro +0 sounds reasonable, but don't really know issues # 17:46 cwebber2 RESOLVED: rephrase description of endpoints to clarify that its scope is for endpoints that tend to be shared on a domain/server # 17:46 saranix I thought it was just other collections that the actor had? # 17:47 Loqi [cwebber] #242 sharedInbox / siteInbox type endpoint (publicInbox, but not just for public posts) # 17:47 tantek Hi saranix, we are in the middle of a Social Web WG telcon - can you wait til after or CG call tomorrow? # 17:47 sandro topic: ActivityPub -- Accept/Reject Follow (#244) # 17:48 sandro cwebber2: We now have implementation support, which we'd made this contingent on # 17:48 sandro .. Mastodon is rolling this out in next release # 17:49 sandro cwebber2: oh, I got these backwards. sharedInbox was the one we made contingent on implementations! # 17:49 Loqi [cwebber] #242 sharedInbox / siteInbox type endpoint (publicInbox, but not just for public posts) # 17:49 sandro .. messages to followers on big instances; being rolled out. # 17:52 cwebber2 > Servers MAY choose to not explicitly send a Reject in response to a Follow if there is a good privacy reason not to do so, though implementors ought to be aware that the server sending the request may be left in an intermediate state. # 17:53 sandro cwebber2: If there's a good privacy reason you don't want to let people know, ... we left that option eprodrom joined the channel
# 17:55 sandro cwebber2: the may is an escape hatch, but then the SHOULD would generate an accept... # 17:55 sandro tantek: no no, keep the strong wording, just in the may-choose-to-not .... # 17:56 eprodrom sandro, thanks # 17:56 eprodrom I've been on the call for a few minute # 17:57 cwebber2 so maybe: Servers MAY choose to not explicitly send a Reject in response to a Follow, though implementors ought to be aware that the server sending the request may be left in an intermediate state. For example, a server might not send a Reject to protect a user's privacy. # 17:58 ajordan eprodrom: did you ever hear back from jasnell about Tag? # 18:00 cwebber2 PROPOSED: Accept Accept/Reject on Follow language from Editor's Draft with adjustments to example discussed on this call to resolve #244. # 18:00 cwebber2 RESOLVED: Accept Accept/Reject on Follow language from Editor's Draft with adjustments to example discussed on this call to resolve #244. # 18:02 sandro cwebber2: Evan, okay if I ping jasnell directly? # 18:03 sandro cwebber2: Mastodon is holding up release, waiting on this. # 18:03 sandro cwebber2: I'll do changelog now, while meeting talks about other things. # 18:03 Zakim Present: sandro, tantek, rhiaro, ajordan, cwebber, tsyesika, eprodrom # 18:03 Zakim ... Gargron, dlongley, cwebber2, oshepherd, bwn, nightpool, trackbot, MMN-o, csarven, jaywink, sknebel, tsyesika, astronouth7303, puckipedia, raucao, tcit, mattl, DenSchub, # 18:03 Zakim On IRC I see eprodrom, timbl, ajordan, Zakim, RRSAgent, tantek, cdchapman, KjetilK__, xmpp-social, wilkie, ben_thatmustbeme, dwhly, jankusanagi_, Loqi, bigbluehat, jet, rhiaro, # 18:03 Zakim ... saranix, aaronpk, bitbear, albino, sandro # 18:04 Loqi [marten-de-vries] #119 'the hub terminates the subscription' # 18:04 sandro sandro: it looks to me like a normative chance, so I'm looking for some argument that I'm wrong about that # 18:05 sandro tantek: can't resolve without more info -- hopefully next week # 18:06 Zakim sees ajordan, rhiaro on the speaker queue # 18:06 sandro ajordan: I've been adding AS2 to pump.io and it's coming along nicelyt # 18:07 sandro rhiaro: Does it make sense to schedule anything for TPAC # 18:09 ajordan if I *am* at TPAC I would be somewhat ignoring csarven's advice of "stay in school" # 18:10 sandro tantek: Evan, we made a plan to have 90 minute meetings tomorrow and every other week after that, unless there's need for me # 18:11 sandro tantek: I'll chair Sep 5 and Evan will chair Sep 19 # 18:15 sandro sandro: Can we get the implementation report before publication? # 18:15 sandro sandro: Can we clarify Owen's role, maybe as "Original Author" # 18:16 sandro tantek: So this was based on ActivityPump which was written by Owen. Maybe say that? # 18:16 sandro tantek: Looking for cases where one spec came from another # 18:17 sandro tantek: Do like the Author's Note in wb, explaining this is based on apump from owen, etc # 18:22 sandro sandro: so publicInbox will remain as deprecated, with an explanation, so people know what it means if they see that in some data or code somewhere. # 18:22 eprodrom Thanks Tantek! # 18:22 Loqi tantek has 69 karma in this channel (381 overall) # 18:23 Loqi sandro has 49 karma in this channel (56 overall) # 18:23 Loqi tantek has 70 karma in this channel (382 overall) # 18:23 Zakim As of this point the attendees have been sandro, tantek, rhiaro, ajordan, cwebber, tsyesika, eprodrom # 18:23 RRSAgent ACTION: sandro find out if webreq can handle namespace document, or if there's a better solution [1] # 18:24 Loqi sandro has 50 karma in this channel (57 overall) # 18:24 Loqi tantek has 71 karma in this channel (383 overall) # 18:27 tantek were there any key SWICG summary update points you wanted to add? # 18:27 tantek maybe note here in IRC for the logs at least? # 18:28 cwebber2 tantek: just that we'll be discussing the extensions tomorrow # 18:28 Zakim cwebber2, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...' # 18:30 tantek ^^^ next week's agenda is up if anyone wants to add anything # 18:49 ajordan a) I'm still waiting on you to transfer pumpit.info to me # 18:49 Loqi [strugee] Okay, here's what this needs from Evan:
1. Confirm that Cloudflare's DNS record importer actually got all the DNS records. I have two A records pointing to GitHub Pages, a CNAME pointing www at the root domain, and an MX on the root domain (all wi... # 19:08 ajordan just realized that I have a class that conflicts with part of the WG telecons # 19:08 ajordan so just fyi I'll only be able to go to the first 45 minutes or so # 19:22 tantek and with that, agenda pages up for September telcons, and homepage updated accordingly too # 19:24 tantek cwebber2, when you get back from lunch feel free to drop a link to the updated CR/editor's draft of AP if you'd like anyone to double-check edits (updated date, Editor's Note / Author edits, change log etc.) eprodrom joined the channel
# 19:48 cwebber2 tantek: just got back, making edits (will dump in here once done) eprodrom joined the channel
# 20:51 cwebber2 sorry, I'm going to have to have the edits up tomorrow # 20:52 Loqi [cwebber] I asked @jasnell about this and got the following response:
> I think at this point if they have found a solid use for it then ++
Let's make it happen! # 21:18 xmpp-social [ajordan] cwebber2: whoa, that was fast! Especially given how much other stuff is, uh... happening # 21:18 xmpp-social [ajordan] Also don't worry about edits :-) # 21:18 xmpp-social [ajordan] Health comes first! # 21:19 xmpp-social [ajordan] tantek: thanks, partial regrets is a good idea # 21:20 xmpp-social [ajordan] Maybe I'll write a script lol # 21:20 xmpp-social [ajordan] Since it'll be for the whole semester # 21:21 Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed tantek and KjetilK__ joined the channel
# 22:27 tantek cwebber2 I hear you about meeting day is draining, I've felt the same. Just went for a run to see if that helps. # 22:28 tantek also for that reason I'm kinda relieved we are continuing with every other week for telcons. It's like I get a whole productive day back. # 22:30 tantek cwebber2 tomorrow morning should be fine for the AP CR edits, if you can give rhiaro & sandro a heads-up about around when you'll have it ready, they may be able to try to get the updated CR approval done soon enough for a Thursday publication (crossing fingers), or else we have to wait til next Tuesday (since CR publication updates are still hand-cranked by staff) KjetilK__ joined the channel
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=104103&oldid=104087
xmpp-social [ajordan] aaronpk: :(
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/29-social-irc
cwebber2 PROPOSED: accept https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-08-15-minutes as last week's minutes
tantek I see two here https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/tree/gh-pages/implementation-reports so this is just a link change?
ajordan b) the website needs some super quick DNS changes described in https://github.com/pump-io/pump-io.github.io/issues/18#issuecomment-315277375