#social 2017-09-11

2017-09-11 UTC
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@xga mastdon、OStatusをやめてActivity Pubに変えるというのでなんだろうと思ったらW3Cが策定している新しいプロトコルなのか https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ (twitter.com/_/status/907027390718648321)
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@reiver Haven't heard of this before: ActivityPub https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ For making decentralized Twitter? (Not fan of usage of JSON though) (twitter.com/_/status/907199865939271680)
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csarven Tackling "decentralisation" and federation is such a trivial task that ... being pedantic on the data serialization is definitely time well invested.
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xmpp-social [ajordan] ^^^
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Lol also what else would you use
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xmpp-social [ajordan] XML?
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Some binary format like protobufs?
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jaywink fun to laught at people disliking JSON when there are many probably here too who would say the same thing if AP was XML ;)
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jaywink (though I'm happy it's not) :D
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xmpp-social [ajordan] :'D yep!
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aaronpk clearly we should just use CSV
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Ooooooo. That's brilliant
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aaronpk we can call it "CSA: Comma-Separated Activities"
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jaywink :D
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Or maybe SMTP-style commands
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xmpp-social [ajordan] EHLO ap.example
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xmpp-social [ajordan] STARTTLS # because of course
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xmpp-social [ajordan] ACTIVITY <id>
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Etc.
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xmpp-social [ajordan] cwebber2: you should revoke my standards license (again)
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cwebber2 personally I advocate Rivest's Canonical S-expressions format :)
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cwebber2 advocates for sexp-ld :)
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Oh my god
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Why am I not surprised
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xmpp-social [ajordan] Is it bad that it legitimately sounds fun to write an SMTP-like submission protocol for AP? As an April Fool's joke or something
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puckipedia ActivityPub over Gopher
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puckipedia well actually I want to build that lol
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xmpp-social [ajordan] ^^^ see??? It's so tempting!!
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xmpp-social [ajordan] In the introduction of my draft I'd be like
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xmpp-social [ajordan] > Note that this specification deliberately deviates from SMTP; this will prevent all the SMTP spam from coming to the new network.
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xmpp-social [ajordan] But then in reality it'd have all the same flaws and more and it would turn out that what the intro meant was actually "this network won't be spammed by SMTP spammers who didn't bother to update their code to account for the tiny syntactical differences
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xmpp-social [ajordan] "
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puckipedia ajordan: hehehe; JSON-RD to MIME headers
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jaywink cwebber2: activitypub.rocks news need some OG tags - makes posts when sharing :)
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jaywink "makes nicer posts"
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cwebber2 jaywink: OG tags....?
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jaywink http://ogp.me
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jaywink many social network platforms pull out description etc from those
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cwebber2 jaywink: oic
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cwebber2 rdfa :)
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cwebber2 I thought embedded json-ld with schema.org was more popular for this kinda stuff right now but I'd be okay adding rdfa
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cwebber2 (embedded schema.org json-ld is what google/bing/etc look at usually I think)
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csarven considers whether he should go into pedantic HTML+RDFa mode.
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jaywink dunno, only thing I've run into is OG tags for this kind of stuff
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jaywink google has a social network?
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cwebber2 jaywink: google has google+ ;)
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jaywink oh yeah, *that* one ;)
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cwebber2 but
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cwebber2 that's not what I'm talking about
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cwebber2 jaywink: you ever do a search and you get "fancy" results on google's homepage
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cwebber2 where instead of getting a plain link to a thing you see some fancy rendering
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cwebber2 like you actually see the movie tickets show up, or info about a video that's not even on youtube, or plane tickets or probably more things that aren't tickets I can't think of
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cwebber2 jaywink: usually they're pulling off schema.org json-ld and using that metadata
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cwebber2 https://developers.google.com/custom-search/docs/snippets
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cwebber2 wait wrong link :P
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jaywink trying to search whether facebook supports these. personally interested more in how things look in social media posts than search
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cwebber2 https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/articles
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cwebber2 oh
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cwebber2 they support rdfa too
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cwebber2 huh I had no idea
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cwebber2 used to write rdfa while working at CC :P
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cwebber2 csarven: heh re: pedantic HTML+RDFa
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cwebber2 occasionally I have thought about pointing a foot-gun downward and sending schema.org objects across the activitypub inbox endpoints ;)
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cwebber2 jaywink: anyway, yeah I should do that
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ben_thatmustbeme https://indieweb.org/YAMLFeed
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ben_thatmustbeme that is all
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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cwebber2 yaml--
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Loqi yaml has -1 karma
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cwebber2 hates yaml
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cwebber2 nearly unparsable
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cwebber2 so complex for so little gains
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ajordan cwebber2: ugh me too, it's nearly pointless
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ajordan yaml--
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Loqi yaml has -2 karma
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jaywink hmm can't find info on facebook + schema.org json-ld ... oh well, logs an issue to look into it anyway for socialhome, if it improves google results :)
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cwebber2 :)
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cwebber2 ontologists gonna ontologize
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ajordan cwebber2: lollll
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ajordan ugh I have never encountered a worse configuration file format than ejabberd's
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cwebber2 I forget, what do they use? is it Erlang?
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ajordan because it's YAML but if it doesn't quite parse correctly (semantically or maybe even syntactically?) it doesn't actually crash
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ajordan things just don't work right
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cwebber2 oh
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ajordan lol pretty sure it used to be raw Erlang but that was Before My Time(tm)
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ajordan that's like 90% of the reason I hate YAML tbh
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csarven jaywink: What are you trying to do?
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cwebber2 the Saddest Thing (TM) is when devops projects decide to use YAML config files because "it's very expressive, but we don't want a turing complete language"
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ajordan ^^^ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cwebber2 but then they add variables, conditionals, etc in a templating language on top of it
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cwebber2 and in the case of... was it ansible or salt? even exception handling!
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cwebber2 and now you have a sad turing complete hybrid monstrosity
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ajordan I believe Ansible but Salt might do it too, idk
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ajordan but I mean they're all like that
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ajordan even if they don't use YAML
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ajordan Chef might be okay, can't remember
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cwebber2 chef uses a real programming language, ruby
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cwebber2 which is better
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ajordan oh that's nice
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jaywink csarven: not trying anything as such, I already use OG tags to render a nice preview for links on Socialhome. But it seems JSON-LD structures might help in google results
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cwebber2 a lisp would be better ;)
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jaywink Ansible <3
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jaywink ansible++
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Loqi ansible has 1 karma in this channel (7 overall)
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@jy ActivityPub -- W3C Candidate Recommendation 07 September 2017 https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#authorization (twitter.com/_/status/907326970240921601)
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