#social 2018-03-25
2018-03-25 UTC
cdchapman, xmpp-social, fr33domlover, rigelk, jankusanagi_ and eprodrom joined the channel
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eprodrom strugee, I'm here too
# eprodrom All the chats
# xmpp-social [ajordan] Same!
# eprodrom Dangit
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@HironobuSUZUKI Authors:
Christopher Lemmer Webber
Jessica Tallon
Erin Shepherd
Amy Guy
Evan Prodromou
https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ (twitter.com/_/status/977922940166705152)
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aaronpk watching cwebber live :) https://libreplanet.org/2018/live/
# fr33domlover Hi everyone
# fr33domlover aaronpk, cool!
# fr33domlover If I have an actor that is managed by software, not a person,
# fr33domlover Should it have a "following" property that resolves to 404, or empty collection, or not have the property at all?
# fr33domlover (It doesn't follow anything, it just has an inbox you can POST and outbox you can GET, and a list of followers)
# fr33domlover csarven, so no property is the best?
# fr33domlover csarven, great points!! thank you so much for this input
# fr33domlover i have so many questions :p
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csarven See also Description of a Project (DOAP) http://usefulinc.com/ns/doap if you want to describe the software further.
# fr33domlover Thanks csarven
# fr33domlover I'm still at the very beginning of implementing AS2 and AP though ^_^
# csarven I use DOAP eg at https://dokie.li/ with info like which specs it implements.
# csarven http://csarven.ca/linked-specifications-reports describes how the LDN spec, its implementation reports, and software are all human and machine-interpretable. Each doing its own thing on the Web.
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# fr33domlover csarven, interesting! And dokieli looks really cool
# fr33domlover It's nice to see cool stuff done with these technologies
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# fr33domlover Has decentralized search been discussed?
# fr33domlover For example the option of maintaining a DHT for certain types of search
# fr33domlover Idk if it's good for plain text search, but maybe it's still good for something
# saranix for public data, standard web search engines are about as decentralized as it gets (anyone can run one), and for private data, usually you are searching meta which has federated, from within your own pod
# fr33domlover saranix, yeah I mean public data
# fr33domlover saranix, I mean something like this: Suppose some person is using a centralized sevice like faceb00k or twitter or linkedin or github or whatever, they want to switch to the fediverse but worried they won't be found - sort of like tags on mastodon are not federated so if you're on a small instance your stuff won't be noticed as much - what do we do and what do we tell this person
# fr33domlover To allow them to be really be found, their profile and their projects etc. whatever they publish
# saranix err uh, like I said, they are indexed by the search engines.
# saranix You know what isn't very well indexed? the silos.
# saranix when other pages mention your blog/whatever, it becomes more and more relevant
# saranix so the more decentralized sites where people are commenting on your stuff and sharing, the more linkages you have
# saranix this ranking does not occur with silos, because whenever anyone mentions a facebook page, what they are mentioning is all a single site called facebook.com. Individual pages don't get ranked as heavily as entire sites.
# saranix you can't even view instagram through tor. How can it be indexed?
# saranix js is necessary to render the page
# saranix @someone tweeting about @someoneelse, is 2 urls pointing inside twitter.com -- https://one.example/someone mentioning https://two.example/someoneelse is a bigger relevance boost
# saranix I mean urls with js-requied content is not well indexed, that's one way that silos are at a disadvantage. The internal vs external linkages is the bigger factor.
# saranix You're much more likely to get ranked decentralized. On Facebook you are just one 2billion + pages on that site.
# saranix missing a couple of prepositions obviously. but you get it.
# saranix Let's say you have a POSSE post on yourname.example. 10 twittizens share it (and let's assume the links are not hidden behind t.co). elsewhere on the web popularblog.example and news-site.example also mention your article, linking to yourname.example. ...
# saranix ... a search engine might show one of the twitter links, and each of the other sites
# saranix with t.co, twitter might not even show up at all on some search engines
# saranix and that's if you are specifically searching for a page you know exists
# saranix if your search terms are more general, and it is the article which is relevant, the search engine will try it's best to find the canonical article. The one on your site.
# saranix thus, you will always be *better* found on decentralized than on silo
# saranix this is actually a very important point that I convey to businesses
# saranix and if you are a hub of one - i.e. yourname.example --- yourname.example is more relavent for 'yourname' search term, than somesite.example/u/yourname
# saranix profile pages too
# saranix also remember that profile pages on hubzilla show up on hundreds of directory servers
# saranix other software will have of course different SEO
# saranix but yeah, if your name is actually *in the hostname* - that trumps all
# saranix almost always ranked #1 result
# saranix profiles should be able to be found just about anywhere -- the whole point of a search engine is to find relevant results. If you are searching for a name, what's relavant is profiles.
# saranix I don't understand why you are obsessing so much with *just profiles* instead of the whole picture.
# saranix a lot of people don't even have profiles BTW.
# csarven I'm not.. just taking an category. First I don't quite understand what you consider as silo, then whether the issue is specific to JS-requirement and/or being part of a service with many other URLs.. and whether it was specific to a particular category of pages. It seemed like you are pulling all of that under a single explanation.
# saranix There's of course a placeholder profile page, but it's so irrelevant to the whole web
# saranix "It seemed like you are pulling all of that under a single explanation" - yes, I was giving a list of ways, not just one
# saranix and just like not all decentralized software is the same, neither is all silos. They of course exist on a scale
# saranix there is much more opportunity to affect your SEO if you are the site admin than if Zuckerberg is though. Can't change that fact.
# saranix For personal websites, so long as you are found at all, people will probably explore your whole site. That too is less likely to happen on a silo though, when it just feels like scrolling through one feed in time, and there are so many others calling for your attention.
# saranix really should put all this into a slidedeck. I keep meaning to but it's so much easier to just talk about it when it comes up.
# saranix Right, and jumping *away* from your stuff and onto someone elses on the same site is kind of how they deliberately design their interactions to work on silos.