#social 2018-04-10

2018-04-10 UTC
cwebber2, nightpool, fr33domlover, xmpp-social, sandro, Loqi, melody, mattl, jaywink, downey, taravancil, saranix, aaronpk, bonan, er1n, tsyesika, KjetilK, jet, hadleybeeman, gobengo-irc-bot, bigbluehat, rigelk, raucao, DenSchub, distopico, puckipedia, bwn, dwhly, jondashkyle, bitbear, ben_thatmustbeme, sknebel, martijnvdven, Gargron, ajordan, rhiaro, erincandescent, csarven, jankusanagi_, dlongley, rektide, edsu, Chocobozzz and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek Welcome to #social - W3C Social Web discussion, see https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG. Chat logs: https://chat.indieweb.org/social
timbl, Sveta and cwebber2 joined the channel
#
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=106341&oldid=106271
cwebber2 joined the channel
#
@m_ott ↩️ Der saubere Weg wäre wohl, dass Bridgy (oder wer auch immer den Request abschickt) ne zweite Webmention sendet und dann beim Aufruf der Source ein `410 Gone` zurückgibt. Dann sollte Dein Server die Webmention entfernen. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#updating-existing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/983750331120185344)
cwebber2 and cdchapman joined the channel
#
ajordan aaaaare we having a call tomorrow?
#
puckipedia I guess? I'll try to remember this time :P
fr33domlover joined the channel
#
Gargron cwebber2: puckipedia: do you remember we talked about bio user-defined key->value fields? are there any updates on that? im pretty sure it should be objects in the "attachment" of the actor object, and name/content can be used, i'm just missing a type
#
cwebber2 oh right
#
puckipedia Gargron: hmm. tbh I would probably use "tag"?
#
cwebber2 aaronpk: can you run the call tomorrow? I'm on the road :(
#
puckipedia Gargron: anyways we will probably have a call tomorrow. might be useful to talk about it then
#
Gargron puckipedia: tag connects one object to other independnetly existing objects
#
cwebber2 the next couple months are gonna be h e c t i c for me because I'm moving
#
cwebber2 well
#
Gargron attachment is more appropriate
#
cwebber2 Gargron: I'm not sure attachment is a good fit, is it?
#
Gargron because these fields dont exist outside the actor
#
cwebber2 looks again
#
cwebber2 I thought attachemnts were like for
#
cwebber2 "here's a file that goes along with this email"
#
puckipedia "The key difference between attachment and tag is that the former implies association by inclusion, while the latter implies associated by reference." yeah okay
#
puckipedia cwebber2: yeah but the file isn't attached to multiple files
#
puckipedia emails*
#
Gargron tbh i didnt see anywhere that attachment is only files
#
cwebber2 computer is thrashing on io
#
cwebber2 trying to pull up the vocab document :P
#
puckipedia Gargron: no, but it's more like comparing as:attachment to email attachments
#
cwebber2 Identifies a resource attached or related to an object that potentially requires special handling. The intent is to provide a model that is at least semantically similar to attachments in email.
#
cwebber2 https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-attachment
#
cwebber2 I don't think we should start putting user-defined metadata there
#
cwebber2 Gargron: could you give a few key / value pair examples?
#
Gargron yes
#
puckipedia https://dev.glitch.social/@bea e.g. has "pronouns: she/her" "title: administratrix", "AKA: @bea@[other], @bea@[another]"
#
Gargron Homepage: zeonfederated.com; Steam: gargron; Pronouns: he/him; Location: Germany
#
cwebber2 I think last time we talked about this there was some schema.org key/value pair thing we were looking at
#
Gargron yeah but that schema was confusing
#
Gargron i dont know what i would do with it
#
cwebber2 some of these actually are things we have terms for, but I understand you want to add more
#
puckipedia I think it's best to keep it mostly AS2, as we'd also use as:name and as:content etc
#
cwebber2 FOAF has some of these
#
Gargron yes, { name: 'Pronouns', content: 'He/him' }
#
puckipedia like, {"type": ???, "name": "name": "pronouns", "content": "she/her"}
#
Gargron yes the type is what i am asking for here
#
Gargron cwebber2: i am not going to restrict the input to things that are in FOAF
#
puckipedia ... I wonder what would happen if we reused as:Note
#
Gargron yeah i had that in mind
#
puckipedia like, "Represents a short written work typically less than a single paragraph in length."
#
Gargron i feel like Note is too big, like Blurb would be more appropriate lol
#
puckipedia technically fits
#
Gargron okay, fair enough
#
cwebber2 whoa
#
cwebber2 I'm not sure about that
#
cwebber2 Note means something about being a document like a status message
#
cwebber2 are you really sure we want to treat these like the same kind of Note?
#
puckipedia okay I was like half kidding when I suggested it
#
Gargron i know that formatting rules are gonna be the same
#
Gargron i dont like it
#
Gargron but
#
Gargron if you dont give me a better option..?
#
cwebber2 I'm looking
#
cwebber2 hold up
#
cwebber2 kills IO-intensive process ;P
#
cwebber2 (I'm reindexing my mail)
#
puckipedia I don't think the vocab has anything nice that'd fit
#
cwebber2 yes I don't think there's anything in AS2
#
cwebber2 :( hold up, my computer is seriously in a nonresponsive state
#
puckipedia maybe we should write up an extension like "MetadataItem" for closest literal type
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: I think we should either use such a thing from schema.org or some other vocab if we can or we should write our own
#
cwebber2 something like
#
cwebber2 ProfileMetadata
#
cwebber2 I kind of don't love this because it collapses meaning but maybe we need it but
#
Gargron but do you agree with me that locking this down to only things that already exist as specific types in vcard or foaf or whatever is unworkable?
#
cwebber2 Gargron: I understand that
#
cwebber2 and maybe having a loose thing for profiles is fine
#
cwebber2 let's just make it clear that it's for profiles
#
puckipedia what if we could put metadata on stuff like articles and such
#
cwebber2 if we can give it at least that much meaning I think it'll help
#
Gargron btw the context of this feature for mastodon, someone in the glitch-soc fork implemented it but using the bio text itself as storage using YAML-in-text, i don't like that solution as i find it hacky so i want to do it "properly"
#
cwebber2 here we go
#
cwebber2 {"profileData": [{"@type": "PropertyValue", "name": "pronouns", "value": "she/her"}, ...], ...}
#
cwebber2 this uses https://schema.org/PropertyValue
#
cwebber2 Gargron: is this so bad? I think it's mostly similar to what we just discussed above
#
puckipedia cwebber2: yeah, the issue is that this means we now also have to import schema:value ... and we have a schema:name / as:name conflict now
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: yes, that's unpleasant
#
cwebber2 bigbluehat: ^^^^
#
cwebber2 I need your advice!
#
Gargron meh, im fine with using schema:name if that's how it is. is profileData also part of that schema?
#
cwebber2 Gargron: nope, profileData would be a new term.
#
Gargron i'd just put it in tag or attachment tbh
#
puckipedia cwebber2: would it be semi-acceptable to use as:name and as:content inside the PropertyValue though?
#
cwebber2 ok, maybe tag would be ok
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: hm good question
#
cwebber2 personally I think I'm ok with it
#
puckipedia because I would suggest that, mostly because as:content has contentType semantics etc
#
cwebber2 that would reduce the number of things to import
#
Gargron aye
#
Gargron i agree with that
#
puckipedia yeah, we'd just do "PropertyValue": "https://schema.org/PropertyValue"
#
cwebber2 so I guess in that case no new terms need to be defined.
#
cwebber2 just pulled into the context is all.
#
cwebber2 whew ok
#
cwebber2 I think that's a reasonable direction Gargron / puckipedia
#
cwebber2 thx
#
puckipedia ok!
#
cwebber2 oh btw
#
cwebber2 here is some semi-news
#
cwebber2 a) I will be moving over the next couple of months so that's going to affect my availability. It's a big move... halfway across the US
#
cwebber2 I'll try to be available though but just fyi.
#
bigbluehat cwebber2: sorry. joining late...catching up
#
cwebber2 b) I'm launching a new activitypub project named Spritely which will be pretty ambitious. Most of the work will start after the move happens
#
bigbluehat cwebber2: please tell me we're going to be neighbors! ;)
#
cwebber2 bigbluehat: oh where are you?
#
cwebber2 I'm moving to Western MA
#
bigbluehat Greenville, SC
#
cwebber2 bigbluehat: not too close then :)
#
bigbluehat nah, but probably closer than before :)
#
puckipedia cwebber2: hm, spritely?
#
bigbluehat anyhow. did y'all sort the PropertyValue stuff?
#
cwebber2 bigbluehat: however you aren't *too* far from Digital Bazaar
#
cwebber2 bigbluehat: yeah we sorted it
#
bigbluehat indeed!
#
bigbluehat great
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: yep... I guess I should finish writing up this design document :)
#
puckipedia anyways, I'm trying to rally up a few peeps to help writing a good AP server and a bunch of cool things on top
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: cool
#
puckipedia one of the ideas was an ask site
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: this one will be Racket based, in case you like parentheses :)
#
cwebber2 partially a port and redo of Pubstrate, but much more ambitious than that
#
puckipedia we're probably going to write it in equal parts rust and go or something
#
cwebber2 actor model based from the bottom up (AP is itself an actor model design)
#
cwebber2 which will enable some crazier things too https://dustycloud.org/misc/mmose.pdf
#
cwebber2 anyway, it's all vaporware for now ;)
#
cwebber2 but Coming Soon... that's where the bulk of my non-work time is going to go.
#
puckipedia I'm pretty sure we're going to have way too much ocap as well;
#
cwebber2 puckipedia: ocap++
#
puckipedia also asnother side project which is basically building ocap, but based on forth scripts or something
#
cwebber2 whoa
#
cwebber2 forth based ocap?
#
cwebber2 can that really be secure?
#
puckipedia ok so this is on a centralized system though
#
cwebber2 I guess not in vanilla forth but I think there are some forths that are able to audit that the amount you take off the stack is the amount you really should
#
puckipedia and yes, custom forth implementation
#
cwebber2 forth is fun though
bwn joined the channel; cwebber2 left the channel