#social 2019-03-25
2019-03-25 UTC
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# 
WammKD slaps jaft around a bit with a large fishbot
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# trwnh is there anything that could be used to represent "rules before interacting" similar to e.g. twitch? someone on fedi expressed wanting a similar feature before replies, and i was thinking it'd be convenient to generalize that to interacting with any Object (actor, thread, group, etc)
# cjslep[m] OCAP is one such idea.
# cjslep[m] trwnh (IRC): which can be found here https://w3c-ccg.github.io/ocap-ld/
# trwnh cjslep[m]: i'm aware of ocap but it's not exactly what i'm talking about. i'm thinking specifically of a way to communicate expectations/rules/etc *before* interacting with an object. it can be combined with ocap to restrict interactions, sure, but that doesn't really communicate guidelines
# trwnh like a `rules` field or some other such thing
# trwnh the only thing we can do right now is to have some `featured`/pinned post detailing this, or to put it into our bios, but this is kind of a semantic hack
# trwnh and generally ignorable too, if someone simply doesn't check a profile's bio or pinned posts
# trwnh it doesn't necessarily have to be a terms of service thing where you have to explicitly agree, but that is another interesting avenue
# trwnh basically a jsyk/fyi feature with optional explicit agree if you use ocap (and simply displayed as info in systems that don't implement ocap)
# cjslep[m] Ah I see. Sounds interesting. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any such properties already a part of ActivityStreams Core
# trwnh yeah i figured as much
# trwnh probably needs to be its own extension
# trwnh in general it seems activitypub is less equipped to handle forum-like use cases... probably as a consequence of it being modeled around email
# cjslep[m] How so?
# trwnh missing a bunch of stuff around non-actor objects. luckily it can be extended but that means getting everybody to agree on a standard extension... might be more fruitful to pitch the idea to various implementations rather than at a spec level.
# rialtate[m] trwnh: https://www.w3.org/TR/odrl/ might have what you are looking for
# trwnh rialtate[m]: hmm no that doesnt seem remotely similar
# rialtate[m] Erm well it doesn't cover specific social interactions but Annotate, Excerpt, Duplicate, Backup, Save translate semantically to some parts of the process
# trwnh i'm really thinking more of an attached Note maybe
# trwnh maybe `context` could be used for this? idk context is a bit vague
# trwnh intentionally vague, according to the activitystreams spec
# rialtate[m] trwnh: if you are going to use a Note I think it makes more sense as an `attachment`
# fr33domlover trwnh, what if you implement these properties as an extension? Unaware servers will ignore them and send you activities; reject those. Then gradually get this extension supported in existing servers so that your software can be contacted by users of other fediverse servers (Mastodon, Pleroma, etc.)
# fr33domlover trwnh, also, I'm not sure using pinned posts etc. is a bad idea: Custom properties would be most useful if there's literally new program behavior to be done based on them. I'd say, base your property choices on figuring out exactly which part of the interaction needs to be done by macine-to-machine interaction
# fr33domlover Because for humans, you can just put a pinned post like in forums
# fr33domlover Q: Should I give every actor an outbox? Even if that outbox is always empty?
# fr33domlover I have non-human actors that never post anything
# fr33domlover But the spec says the outbox property is required
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# schmittlauch[m] ohai
# schmittlauch[m] I wonder whether I can utilize AP Relay or Group Actors in my project. Do you know any resources I can read to get more information about these actor types?
# schmittlauch[m] AFAIK the relay actor is currently used in the Mastodon and LitePub (Pleroma) relays, while Prismo makes use of the Group actor.
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# fr33domlover schmittlauch[m], do you mean like a mailing list, where you address something to a group, and that actor them delivers to all the group members? Idk how relay/group stuff works in Mastodon or Pleroma, but I wonder if/why special support is needed for that: You just send something addressed to the https://GROUP/members collection, and the destination server makes the actual delivery (the list of members
# fr33domlover can be private, so, it's something the server needs to be ready to do, it can't rely on the message author to do that)
# schmittlauch[m] fr33domlover: Ah, interesting. Yes, something like that. Interested servers shall be able to subscribe to an actor on a server responsible for certain content, and then shall receive all posts sent to that actor.
# schmittlauch[m] fr33domlover: I'd like to know where I can find descriptions of these special actors. because the ActivityPub spec only mentions actors in general but doesn't describe certain types of them.
# schmittlauch[m] Or is the best way to figure out what certain actors do & how they work just reading the source code of implementations?
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# fr33domlover schmittlauch[m], are these actors special though in any way>
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# fr33domlover schmittlauch[m], maybe they're just regular actor's, whose type is Group or Forum or whatever, instead of Person
# schmittlauch[m] fr33domlover: Might be. Honestly I'm relatively new to AP and also only skimmed throuh the spec. I mostly wanted to know how people deal with newly introduced actor types and whether they are documented somewhere.
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# gazo Hi, just wondering if anyone has any insight as to why the test suite has been down?
# jdormit[m] I think cwebber (cwebber2) owns that
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