#social 2019-04-10

2019-04-10 UTC
eprodrom, dmitriz, rhunter, vitalyster and xmpp-social joined the channel
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rialtate[m]
heluecht : saw your post about private groups. http signed gets are an easy way to authenticate private fetches and many implementations support it.
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rialtate[m]
Also the proxyUrl property as I understand it is for c2s so clients can have servers mask their activity and also fetch private resources when the server holds their private key
timbl joined the channel
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cjslep[m]
Another data point: go-fed processes an activity's side effects synchronously but the uses a dependency-injected interface to do the delivery, up to the library user to do it synchronously, asynchronously, however the library user has implemented it.
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jdormit[m]
cjslep: I like that approach. Does go-fed handle signing the requests or does the library user have to do that themselves?
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cjslep[m]
go-fed/http-sigs is available for those that don't want to roll their own.
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cjslep[m]
As a separate stand alone library
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jdormit[m]
I see. I'm taking a more opinionated/all-in-one approach - ideally it should just be few lines of code to integrate ActivityPub into a project usingy library. I think I'll go for a sensible default with a pluggable delivery system for users with advanced needs
eprodrom joined the channel
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cjslep[m]
Nice!
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cwebber2
socialcg call today, amirite?
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cwebber2
also good morning
ahihi, timbl and dmitriz joined the channel
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melody
is there an agenda?
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cwebber2
I put ActivityPub issues on the agenda
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cwebber2
I know, issue tracking, not the most thrilling but it is important
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cwebber2
I'm also happy to take other topics
eprodrom_ joined the channel
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eprodrom
Weird
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eprodrom
cwebber2: heyo
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eprodrom
I have a Mumble question
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cwebber2
hi eprodrom
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cwebber2
what's up
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eprodrom
Is there a username I should use when connecting?
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cwebber2
eprodrom: not a specific one, you can specify a username
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cwebber2
eprodrom: are you having trouble connecting?
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eprodrom
Yes
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cwebber2
1sec, let me try
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eprodrom
I get "wrong certificate or password"
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eprodrom
"for registered user"
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cwebber2
eprodrom: did you set a certificate previously
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cwebber2
for your user
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cwebber2
eprodrom: just try switching it to anything else
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eprodrom
Uh, that did it
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cwebber2
I see you connected now
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cwebber2
eprodrom: so you probably set up a certificate for your user on some machine
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cwebber2
and then ~lost that
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eprodrom
OK, I bet what happened is that Plumble on my phone set up a cert for me, which wasn't available on my laptop
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cwebber2
that's probably it
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cwebber2
I'll join the right channel in a few, I'm looking for my headphones
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cwebber2
still setting up office in new place
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eprodrom
NBD, it's not for 5 minutes
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cwebber2
headphones found, horray
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cwebber2
still enough time to make some quick tea, too.
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eprodrom
START MINUTES HERE
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eprodrom
present+
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cwebber2
present+
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melody
present+
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eprodrom
cwebber2: do we need a scribe
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eprodrom
eprodrom: yes and it is me
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eprodrom
TOPIC: Evergreen recommendations
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I'm doing AC meeting stuff
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cwebber2
eprodrom: interesting stuff happening there
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cwebber2
eprodrom: there's a new recommendation track which would be "Evergreen Standards"
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cwebber2
eprodrom: which would be edited in place over time, aka a living document or living standard
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cwebber2
eprodrom: unlike the previous structure where you work all your way up, do PR, CR, etc, it will be continuously evolving
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cwebber2
eprodrom: there's anticipating there will be kind of a crossover
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cwebber2
eprodrom: some recs being on old rec track that might want to switch over to evergreen standards
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cwebber2
eprodrom: there might be others that might make more sense to continue on REC track
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cwebber2
eprodrom: so they see the idea of standards switching between tracks
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cwebber2
eprodrom: that may sound crazy, but in our own situation we did a lot of work to get to our own stable version, and there's a lot of stuff in implementations around questions, comments, small non-breaking changes, etc
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cwebber2
eprodrom: maybe in two to three years as we're not making many more changes it's time for ActivityPub 1.1 and we freeze it, it goes back in the old REC format
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I think that's very interesting for our document formats
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cwebber2
eprodrom: we've been trying to do something where the version on w3c.org might be different than our GH thing
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cwebber2
eprodrom: so I wanted to bring the idea for discussion
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eprodrom
scribenick: eprodrom
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eprodrom
cwebber2: chance to bridge the gap between spec and reality
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eprodrom
cwebber2: why is energy in CG not reflecting energy in fediverse
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eprodrom
cwebber2: could help bring back energy
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cwebber2
scribenick: cwebber2
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cwebber2
eprodrom: there's a temptation when you write standards docs is to think that's how you solve it, that you solve it by writing more standards, but I think there's only so much you can do to in terms of editing standards
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cwebber2
eprodrom: but I think we've had a problem where people say the spec says do it this way, but this other way is easier to do so that's what we're doing
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cwebber2
eprodrom: and I think we've been like *shrug*
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cwebber2
eprodrom: so in that sense I think we can better serve those people who are using these specs for reference
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I think that if someone says "I'd like to make this change" and we say "sorry we're closed", that's not very helpful... so it may be helpful to have a structure where things are open for conversation
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cwebber2
cwebber2: is this at the point where it's still in discussion?
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cwebber2
eprodrom: yes I think so, and I'm not 100% sure I understand how it works
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cwebber2
eprodrom: so it's definitely something where we need to look at it, then follow up and say "hey, we think these documents would be good candidates"
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cwebber2
eprodrom: one I def think would def be a good candidate is AS2 vocab
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cwebber2
eprodrom: giving more definition, showing what they do, etc etc
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cwebber2
eprodrom: those are all good things to do and could be really helpful
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cwebber2
eprodrom: AS2 core doesn't seem as volatile
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cwebber2
eprodrom: so maybe that one doesn't make as much sense
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cwebber2
eprodrom: but they talk specifically about vocabularies and registries
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I think ActivityPub may also be a good one
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cwebber2
cwebber2: what are next steps?
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cwebber2
eprodrom: maybe read through the document
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eprodrom
all for me
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eprodrom
scribenick: eprodrom
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cwebber2
TOPIC: AP issues
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cwebber2
cwebber2: Previously people were hacking {Block} and then {Undo {Block}} to do this
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eprodrom
{Undo {Accept}}, then {Reject}
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cwebber2
cwebber2: recommendation then became sending {Reject {Follow}} at any future time
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I feel like maybe the relationship is between three states, you request and it's undetermined, you accept, and then if you undo it set it back to undetermined, then you reject
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cwebber2
eprodrom: it seems like what you've suggested is the cleanest state machine
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cwebber2
sorry, that was me talking to eprodrom
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cwebber2
eprodrom: yes, it's a clean state machine
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cwebber2
melody: I think it might not matter either way
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cwebber2
melody: I think there's not a distinction, because from Bob's perspective of being removed or undo'ed it's the same situation of not getting updates
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cwebber2
melody: if I later sent a reject as well, you may be like I already unsubscribed from bob
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cwebber2
melody: the one step unsubscribe is the same either way
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cwebber2
cwebber2: I think we should probably accept default behavior?
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I think it makes sense to accept the way mastodon is doing it
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cwebber2
MEETING ENDS
timbl and heluecht[m] joined the channel
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heluecht[m]
@rialtate:matrix.org: Can we discuss this at the post. I would like to keep discussions together.
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rialtate[m]
heluecht: I can't make any promises that I'll sign up to a non federated server to discuss federation 😙
timbl joined the channel
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cwebber2
Just a straw poll of interest here.
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cwebber2
If we did a W3C workshop on federation and ActivityPub, would you want to attend? Is it something you'd be willing to travel for?
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cjslep[m]
Yes
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jaywink[m]
> <@irc_cwebber2:cybre.space> If we did a W3C workshop on federation and ActivityPub, would you want to attend? Is it something you'd be willing to travel for?
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jaywink[m]
If in Europe, yes
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rhiaro
cwebber2: if in europe, yes :)