#social 2019-09-11
2019-09-11 UTC
xkr47, xmpp-social and BitBot joined the channel
# 
jesopo is there anyone that can look over this as an Actor document and tell me if it's broken? https://pastebin.com/raw/kmT2yFSP
# nightpool[m] jesopo: where is it being hosted?
# jesopo nightpool[m]: https://bitbot.dev/.well-known/host-meta
# nightpool[m] one thing I noticed is that the inbox link isn't actually a real link
# jesopo yeah but I'm not even getting 404s to the inbox link
# nightpool[m] and the ID doesn't resolve to the document
# jesopo also the bot5 links are all now invalid
# jesopo or bot4
# jesopo try bot6
# jesopo I've been cachebusting
# nightpool[m] I'm not saying the inbox link doesn't resolve, I'm saying it's not a well formed link
# nightpool[m] there's no protocol
# jesopo oh, no https
# jesopo that's a Problem
# jesopo thanks u
# nightpool[m] my other suggestion is to make sure you're severing the document with the right content type
# nightpool[m] ActivityPub uses content type negotiation heavily so if you're not serving the file with an activity+json or json+ld content type other servers won't start processing it
# jesopo yeah i *think* im doing content-types correctly
# jesopo will check
# jesopo thanks!
# jesopo otherwise looks relatively ok?
# nightpool[m] I can't check on mobile to make sure that's correct but when I'm at my computer in an hour or so I can check
# jesopo thnx!
# jesopo much much much appreciated
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# jesopo Content-Type: application/ld+json; profile="https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams"
# jesopo i believe that's right
# jesopo am i meant to be serving up signatures for queries inbound to me
# nightpool[m] no
# nightpool[m] that's what https is for
# jesopo yeah thought so :l
# jesopo still not much dine
# jesopo dice*
# jesopo is CC on activities neccessary? i see that everyone seems to use it
# nightpool[m] not sure what you mean by necessary
# nightpool[m] but there's nothing requiring you to use cc, no
# 
jaywink[m] not sure where I copied from but public posts I put "public ns" in TO and users mentioned in CC. For socialhome it doesn't make a difference where they are for incoming
# jesopo also does context/converstaion need to be a valid uri?
# nightpool[m] needs to be valid if present but doesn't need to be resolvable I think
# jesopo sorry for so many dumb Qs, I've tried finding the answers in documentation but can't
# jesopo very grateful for the help
# jesopo federation is hard
# jesopo I have been informed that mastodon won't actually use the content of the outbox. it will only show you toots from a user if an account on your instance was following them when the toots were made?
# jesopo that sounds ridiculous, especially given masto requests my outbox
# jaywink[m] TBH outbox seems mostly useful for C2S implementations. Does anyone use outbox for the S2S layer except for getting a count like Mastodon I think does?
# nightpool[m] I'm not sure what you're expecting mastodon to do with the outbox
# nightpool[m] should we download all of your posts just because we requested your profile once?
# nightpool[m] that seems excessive
# jesopo tru
# jesopo where can i read docs about delays
# nightpool[m] delays?
# jesopo uh
# jesopo relays
# jesopo or
# jesopo do relays just behave as a shared inbox, same as for a regular instance?
# jaywink[m] any good writeups about the conf?
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# rigelk[m] count me in
# jaywink[m] yay :)
# 
cwebber2 https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2019-09-11 announcement
# melody short notice but i'll see what i can do about making it
# nightpool[m] regular reminder that I would really appreciate if we could hold socialcg meetings at a time I could make them
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# hellekin hi there
# jesopo \o
# hellekin sorry I'm late, I was on another event preparation...
# jesopo not late. 3pm utc not bst
# hellekin looks like 3:21pm to me
# jesopo BST
# jesopo ,wa time in utc
# trwnh it's 2:21 utc right now
# hellekin or is it DST time still? Summer is +2. Duh.
# BitBot [Wolfram|Alpha] time in utc: b'2:21:54 P.M. Coordinated Universal Time, Wednesday, September 11, 2019'
# hellekin ok ok :)
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# cjslep[m] +1 to nightpool would be nice if I could attend too
# nightpool[m] I would be able to attend basically any time on the weekend
# nightpool[m] maybe we should do a whenisgood?
# melody are we or are we not (also?) meeting in a few minutes?
# jesopo i believe s
# jesopo o
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# jesopo if u need irc bots, im yr nerd
# jaywink[m] would love to join but mumble doesn't agree
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: How about we start with introductions
# dmitriz2 … Couple of things
# dmitriz2 … those of you joining for the first time — in order to participate in this Community Group in any substantial way, you need to official join the group (see link above)
# dmitriz2 … and the reason for that is Intellectual Property / patents type stuff
# dmitriz2 … I'll start. I'm Chris Webber, chair of the CG
# dmitriz2 … editor of the ActivityPub spec
# dmitriz2 cjd (?): hi, I'm Caleb,
# dmitriz2 … I went to the ActivityPubConf event
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# dmitriz2 dariusk: I'm Darius, I just wrapped up a Mozilla Fellowship working on decentralized social media stuff
# dmitriz2 … I'm interested in helping people hang out with their friends in a nice way, so that's pretty much why I'm here
# dmitriz2 … and I make some AP software as well
# dmitriz2 gargron: hello, I'm the main developer of Mastodon,
# dmitriz2 … and am here to listen in on what the current ideas are, and to make comments as well
# dmitriz2 hellekin: I'm involved in a project in Brussels, Petit Singularity,
# dmitriz2 … also involved in a EU consortium, that gives money to Open Source projects, among them AP
# jesopo mind if i do it on irc?
# jesopo @ cwebber2
# jesopo I'm jess. software dev for work and fun. hardware integration for work and mostly IRC bots for fun. Been writing up an S2S AP implementation in BitBot (my irc bot) for the last week or so. I love decrentralised systems and the theories behind them
# jesopo <3
# hellekin dmitriz2: that's Petites Singularités :)
# dmitriz2 lain_soykaf: hi I'm Lain, I started the Pleroma project, and am one of the main dv
# dmitriz2 melody: hi, I'm melody, primarily concerned with anti-harassment and anti-abuse in social networks
# trwnh hi i'm trwnh (abdullah tarawneh) and i'm a casual observer who likes to know how things work. i've done a bit of scattered work for various fedi projects, i guess mainly pixelfed for now. btw it's pronounced ta-rawn-eh
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: ok, let's hop into the topics
# dmitriz2 … a lot of stuff happened at AP Conf
# dmitriz2 … the first day was a day full of talks, all very good, the second day was
# dmitriz2 … a keynote from Mark Miller of Object Capabilities fame, and the rest was unconference format
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# dmitriz2 … event went really well, conversation with implementers
# dmitriz2 … I'm really excited about it, and to continue the conversation in the future
# dmitriz2 … ah, rigelk just joined the call, let's do introductions
# jaywink[m] Hey, forgot to intro too. I'm jaywink, have been lurking in the W3C SocialWG/CG for some time. I work on Socialhome a Django based federated platform and also involved in the Federated Network Association.
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: ok lets talk about queue management on W3C type calls
# dmitriz2 … in general, you type q+ to add yourself to the queue
# dmitriz2 … and we acknowledge people in order, so they don't trip over each other
# hellekin q+
# dmitriz2 … I'd love to get a feel for where everybody is, on moving forward as a community
# dmitriz2 q+
# dmitriz2 hellekin: during the conf, I proposed that we start a dedicated AP devroom at FOSDEM
# dmitriz2 … we picked that up, currently 7-8 ppl working on this, deadline is Sep 20,
# dmitriz2 … if you're interested in joining, there'll be a dedicated mailing list for this
# dmitriz2 … details forthcoming
# dmitriz2 … the idea is to reproduce the setup we had at APConf
# dmitriz2 … which is, first day of talks, then unconf the second day
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# cwebber2 dmitriz2: I greatly enjoyed APConf, it was really good to get an idea of the current state of the industry of the projects; Mastodon, Pleroma, Florence, etc. I had to leave early, missed the second day due to a family emergency, but the reason I added myself to the queue was to say that I was really glad the community was focusing on authorization and cross-server hashtag search, and hopefully extends to general purpose text search and user search
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: a lot of the conversation (2nd day) was about what the future of ActivityPub might be
# dmitriz2 … in some ways, the conf brought together part of the Web of Trust community (that was one of the reasons we co-located with them) and the wider AP community in general
# dmitriz2 … some of the things we discussed was how to use some of the general ideas (such as Object Capabilities for authorization), also Data Shards (for persistence of data and accounts when servers go down)
# dmitriz2 … as well as the idea of Stamps introduced in OCap Pub, which could be adapted standalone
# dmitriz2 … I sensed initial skepticism early on (in terms of, it seemed that the OCap Pub ideas were "all or nothing")
# dmitriz2 … but I hope to get across that the various components can be adopted individually, piecemeal
# dmitriz2 … anybody else want to queue up?
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: I think the FOSDEM development is really great,
# dmitriz2 … I know there's also a Federation conf (not AP-specific) being planned in Barcelona next year
# dmitriz2 … next up, we'll speak about social.activitypub.rocks,
# dmitriz2 … also I want to talk about how much of a bottleneck I've been for this community, and how to reduce that
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# dmitriz2 … so a devroom at FOSDEM is a great example of that (of reducing bottlenecks)
# dmitriz2 … I'm really interested in seeing what we can do as a community to keep each other engaged, moving forward, without me being a blocker
# dmitriz2 … including in the SocialCG here
# dmitriz2 … part of the problem I suspect is that we organize on the w3c Wiki, which is not easy
# dmitriz2 … and also only corporate members of W3C can actually edit the wiki,
# dmitriz2 … so I'm interested in talking about that
# dmitriz2 q+
# cwebber2 dmitriz2: one good first step we can do is a general call for volunteers, to find an alternative wiki to host these, etc. I personally definitely volunteer to help run the regular meetings, and I know that marie/maloki is also interested, and I'm sure we'll get other volunteers. Other q is, given how AP is ramping up, should we move the calls to biweekly or even weekly
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: moving the calls to bi-weekly or weekly is really great
# dmitriz2 … for a while, we were meeting more regularly, but lost some energy,
# dmitriz2 … partly due to stumbling block of extension points for activity streams etc
# dmitriz2 … anyways, I agree that now, with renewed energy, we should be having this more often
# dmitriz2 … another question is, when should we host them?
# dmitriz2 … a few people on IRC asked if we can move this to Saturday or Sunday
# hellekin q+
# rigelk (sorry for the lack of introduction earlier - I've had problems with my bridge) I'm Rigel Kent, part of the PeerTube and now OLKi project, a Django federated platform for scientific data.
# dmitriz2 … so timing would be a great thing to reopen discussions on
# dmitriz2 hellekin: about frequency of meetings and where to host the logistics,
# dmitriz2 … I think there's a fear of missing out that we shouldn't fall into
# dmitriz2 … and if we have a better venue, in advance, for discussing,
# dmitriz2 … then a monthly or bi-weekly meeting would be enough
# dmitriz2 … cause we can have async conversation, and we can use the meeting for high-bandwidth communication, to clarify and so on
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: to reply to hellekin - makes sense, we need a better forum
# dmitriz2 … I think it'd be a good idea to test out bi-weekly, see if that works
# dmitriz2 … does that sound reasonable?
# dmitriz2 hellekin: yep!
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: on that note, if nothing else on that topic, lets talk about social hub
# dmitriz2 q+
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: yeah, let's try to gauge people's availability
# dmitriz2 … and maybe we can test it on social hub on activitypub.rocks
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: let's open that up by asking hellekin to introduce it and its purpose
# dmitriz2 hellekin: it started as a SocialHub network, started by mxb (?) from (?),
# dmitriz2 … and I thought it was a good idea. when we organized the Decentralized Internet devroom at FOSDEM last year, we moved about 40 people to that platform,
# dmitriz2 … with the idea of not splitting people over too many places
# dmitriz2 … then mxb kind of disappeared from the internet, which made us run into the 'hit by a bus' factor,
# dmitriz2 … and I think it's time to move on
# dmitriz2 … I know that jaywink started another forum,
# dmitriz2 … but I think we need an ActivityPub-specific forum
# dmitriz2 … and knowing that Discourse will implement ActivityPub at some point,
# hellekin socialhub.network, socialhub.activitypub.rocks, forum.feneas.org
# dmitriz2 (pause for scribe catch-up :) )
# rigelk[m] I'd prefer to
# jaywink[m] my mumble doesn't seem to work
# rigelk[m] I'm part of the PeerTube project and now of the OLKi project
# jaywink[m] feneas forum is https://talk.feneas.org - but as said, it's a bit larger in scope, not just activitypub
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: the proposal is to set up the forum at socialhub.activitypub.rocks
# dmitriz2 … as an additional incubation space
# dmitriz2 … one of the things we discussed at APConf is that this community needs a place to continue its discussions
# dmitriz2 … so that's my impression of why we're talking about setting this up
# dmitriz2 … so I'll be setting up the DNS
# hellekin q+
# dmitriz2 sebastian: the new place - could it be an ActivityPub actor itself?
# dmitriz2 thx
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: I think hellekin mentioned earlier that Discourse will be AP-powered soon, I'm not sure what that means exactly,
# dmitriz2 … but I'm hoping it'll interop with the fediverse
# dmitriz2 sl007: my name is Sebastian, and me and Morgan just organized this past APConf, which was a great success,
# dmitriz2 … and I'm currently doing the video editing from the conferene
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: thank you so much, we are all very grateful for your work
# dmitriz2 hellekin: I wanted to add on to the reasons as to why have this forum,
# dmitriz2 … as you said, the w3c platform has some friction, so one of the main drives to start this forum
# dmitriz2 … is to host a special interest group to prepare in advance discussion topics for the Social CG calls
# dmitriz2 … and it may be good to have a lot of discussions for ActivityPub outside the CG,
# dmitriz2 … to free up resources / time in the CG
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: just to clarify,
# dmitriz2 … Aaron Parecki is the co-chair of the CG,
# dmitriz2 … and yes, he's more traditionally involved in IndieWeb community, but he has implemented ActivityPub
# dmitriz2 … also, since there's not a lot of activity in the CG, it's not like we're going to overload or displace the CG with ActivityPub conversations
# hellekin q+
# dmitriz2 … ok, the other thing we want to discuss about socialhub is the governance. hellekin?
# dmitriz2 hellekin: first things first, we want to avoid the Bus Factor, so we want to have a larger group of moderators and admins
# dmitriz2 … I set up a specific VM for this, so I can share sysadmin/root access
# dmitriz2 … of course we'll need to vet this,
# dmitriz2 … hopefully people I've met in person at APConf, or other known people in this community
# dmitriz2 … as far as moderators, I know that maloki is interested, as well as other people as well
# dmitriz2 … re governance -
# dmitriz2 … how it's worked so far is - I was proposing stuff and leaving time for the collective to respond
# dmitriz2 … and I really hope we can have some sort of collective governance model
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: great
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: anybody else, before we move on to next topic?
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: the next two topics were sitting on the agenda for a while
# dmitriz2 … but it's worth bringing them up again
# dmitriz2 … the first one is the Evergreen Standards page at W3C
# dmitriz2 … the Evergreen Standards idea is - instead of the current mechanism (that standards start up in Community Groups, and go through chartering of Work Groups,
# dmitriz2 … and they go through the standard process,
# dmitriz2 … the idea of Evergreen standards is - we acknowledge that specs are dynamic, and evolve over time
# dmitriz2 … and we continue working on them and occasionally make snapshots
# dmitriz2 … so, read the document,
# dmitriz2 … and the question is, is this something the AP community wants to pursue?
# dmitriz2 … the most likely place we'd want to use it is to specify the behavior of _side effects_ of various terms
# lain_soykaf q+
# dmitriz2 … which the working group touched on, but needs to be expanded, especially for new extensions that have appeared
# dmitriz2 lain_soykaf: I think this is absolutely needed, no way around it
# hellekin +1
# dmitriz2 … if it doesn't happen officially, it'll happen implicitly and unofficially on wikis and so on
# dmitriz2 … cause we're already adding new extensions and implementing them
# dmitriz2 … so, I'm all for this
# dmitriz2 +1
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: I'd like to make a tentative proposal for this
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: just to gauge interest.
# trwnh +1
# hellekin +1
# Gargron +1
# jaywink[m] +1
# dmitriz2 … if you're interested in moving to an Evergreen Standard in general, type a +1/-1 etc
# dmitriz2 +1
# rigelk +1
# dariusk +1
# melody +1
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: I think the ayes hav eit
# dmitriz2 … looks like overwhelming support for this
# dmitriz2 … I propose we give people one meeting to review this page, specifically,
# rigelk +1
# dmitriz2 … and, barring objections, on another meeting, we move this towards taking the official step
# dmitriz2 q+
# hellekin there's the issue of using github. Otherwise the process sounds good.
# rigelk +1 hellekin
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: so, funny thing about that...
# dmitriz2 … we don't have a mailing list
# dmitriz2 … early on, people only wanted to use Github,
# dmitriz2 … but now it makes more sense, especially to use socialhub.activitypub.rocks
# dmitriz2 … so, proposal
# dmitriz2 … I think it's worthwhile to get community buy-in
# lain_soykaf do it
# dmitriz2 … (typing proposal)
# trwnh +1
# dmitriz2 +1
# Gargron +1
# rigelk +1
# hellekin +1
# lain_soykaf +1
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: yes
# melody +1
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# dmitriz2 … we can have a separate convo about bridging the two
# dariusk +1
# sl007 +1
# dmitriz2 … but since we don't have a mailing list currently, this won't be a blocker
# dmitriz2 great, makes sense!
# dmitriz2 thanks!
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: ok resolved! when I set up the DNS, I'll open a thread discussing the Evergreen Specs
# dmitriz2 … and what the next steps are
# dmitriz2 … is there anything else people want to discuss?
# dmitriz2 … next up: using Accept / Reject for more stuff than just Follow and Offer actions
# trwnh +q
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: ok, I don't remember the context, but it should be possible to use Accept/Reject for other stuff
# trwnh ok so this might have intersections with the discussion around extensions and evergreen stuff, but...
# jaywink[m] Would be great if platforms sent a Reject for activities they are not going to process so senders could relay that information to users.
# dmitriz2 oh interesting.
# trwnh my thinking with proposing this was to signal whether an activity was processed with side effects, in a way that is more informative than just http status codes.
# dmitriz2 q+
# cwebber2 dmitriz2: I agree for sure that more info in machine readable format would be great. I'd much rather see it... not as an extension, but handled at the AP level that the response contains a JSON object with more information, including about rejection, rather than use an activity-level Reject object for it
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: I think part of the challenge is that -
# dmitriz2 … and this became more clear to me as I was writing the AP test suite
# dmitriz2 … one of the reasons that AP doesn't give you a lot of information immediately with request/response, is that async implementations need time to process
# trwnh +q
# dmitriz2 … or a user needs to take time to process a decision
# dmitriz2 … so expecting immediate feedback in a response might not be possible
# dmitriz2 … but one way around this could be - something along the lines of Promises that get resolved, possibly using Webhooks or something
# trwnh i think the async factor is exactly why such signalling might be useful? if you send me a Create and i receive it successfully, i may want to let you know a day later that it wasn't delivered to the actor
# dmitriz2 … but I realize that I'm just throwing it out there without a formal proposal, so it might be confusing
# trwnh or that something else went wrong
# dmitriz2 does ActivityStreams2 have an explicit Error object?
# trwnh similar to how email servers give you indications
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: so there's a challenge to introducing new places to use Accept / Reject might increase confusion among implementors
# dmitriz2 … I'm uncertain about doing this stuff ad-hoc
# trwnh +q
# dmitriz2 … it would be great to make a list where this kind of more informative errors would be helpful
# trwnh this would probably be a good thing to discuss more in-depth on socialhub after it's set up
# trwnh since it is very in-depth
# dmitriz2 +1
# trwnh and it would be nice to have a generalized framework
# hellekin +1
# hellekin Might HTTP code 102 (Processing) or 202 (Accepted) be useful in this context?
# dmitriz2 oh good call, re http 202
# hellekin will do
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: excellent, lets bring that convo to the discourse server when it's set up
# dmitriz2 … any other comments?
# dmitriz2 … next up: when do we want to do the next meeting?
# melody q+
# dmitriz2 melody: I was just thinking, one thing that we want to keep in mind is
# dmitriz2 … the usecase where - I think there's a certain degree to which implementations are relying on being opaque
# dmitriz2 … in terms of what information they give back to actors
# dmitriz2 … especially in scenarios of where somebody is blocked, or soft-blocked
# trwnh q+
# dmitriz2 … so, being able to explicitly NOT say that an activity succeeded, is important
# dmitriz2 +1, excellent point
# trwnh i conceptualized it months ago as similar in vein to accept/reject follow, but of course general
# trwnh so there exists the state
# trwnh where the follow is neither accepted or rejected
# dmitriz2 something like 'acknowledged'? :)
# trwnh similarly, impls that don't want to reveal info
# trwnh can simply choose not to send accept/reject
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: that's true, although it does leave the question
# dmitriz2 … how should those impls render the new state?
# dmitriz2 … especially if we're adding it all over the place
# trwnh basically, we already have this issue to some degree
# dmitriz2 … but this is great conversation for Discourse
# dmitriz2 … let's move on, since we only have a couple mins left
# trwnh again though, more in-depth on discourse forum :)
# dmitriz2 … Do people want to move this to two weeks from now (as opposed to next month)?
# dmitriz2 … I'm going to make a proposal
# hellekin q+
# dmitriz2 q+ to ask about where the meeting notes will be published
# dmitriz2 hellekin: with another group, we had rotating meetings on weekends and weekdays, so people could have more choice
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: let's do a quick show of hands
# hellekin +0
# sl007 +1
# rigelk +0
# hellekin +0 +1
# trwnh +q
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: good question, also we're out of time,
# dmitriz2 … I'm gonna make a quick proposal
# dmitriz2 +1
# trwnh +q
# hellekin +1
# sl007 +1
# trwnh i was thinking if we alternate, can we also cycle times of day?
# hellekin yes good idea
# trwnh waking up at certain times consistently is uncertain
# dmitriz2 good idea.
# melody 0
# hellekin +q
# trwnh otherwise +1 to cycling dates at least between wed / weekend
# dmitriz2 we can also discuss this on Discourse
# dmitriz2 hellekin: yeah, we can start the discussion on Discourse.
# dmitriz2 … how about we have the next meeting on Sep 28, and then make a doodle poll,
# dmitriz2 … and get more info
# dmitriz2 cwebber2: sounds good
# dmitriz2 … ok, let's wrap up! thanks everyone
# hellekin o/
# dmitriz2 … see you in 2 weeks, and on Discourse
# lain_soykaf byebye
# rigelk bye!
# sl007 bye
# dmitriz2 cwebber2 - where do the minutes go? the wiki?
# dmitriz2 ok cool, and maybe the discourse would be a good place for those
# sl007 Please correct the https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2019-09-11—> Logs Link and
# sl007 DO NOT click the current link ;)
# dmitriz2 or, you know, another early usecase for data shards / encrypted vaults :)
# cwebber2 https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2019-09-11/minutes meeting logs posted!
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# melody didn't think of this during the vote, but should we maybe not do the final vote on the evergreen proposal until the month has rolled around? the new meeting time + shorter span between meetings may give people less time to review the full page than expected, especially people who couldn't make this meeting and were maybe not expecting us to move to more frequent ones
# dmitriz2 agreed
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# hellekin rotating meetings every 15 days would actually mean most people would attend once a month
# hellekin cwebber2: next meeting can change the date of the following meeting :)
# hellekin and people who wanted a weekend will be happy anyway.
# hellekin thank you all for the support, especially as I saw developers from Mastodon and Pleroma agreeing to have a single Discourse :) Thank you Gargron for being around at this meeting. I hope we all work more closely together in the future.
# cwebber2 ok here goes https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2019-09-28
# nightpool[m] hey all, backreading the chat now
# nightpool[m] really excited by the Evergreen Standards idea, definitely interested in digging in more on the specifics
# nightpool[m] what's the status of Evergreen Standards as a w3 process? Is it something other groups have done, is it something the advisory committee has weighed in on, etc?
# hellekin nightpool[m]: super interested in your findings... Especially whether it's Github-specific or simply linked to a Git repository and/or an issue tracking tool
# nightpool[m] well, it's a process document for w3 groups, and w3 groups use github
# hellekin github should be free software and a foundation. But well... Reality begs to differ...
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# melody one big question about the upcoming forum -- will gab devs and the operators of kiwi farms and similar abuse networks be allowed to join and participate? it seems inevitable this is going to be a question we will need to answer
# nightpool[m] agree w melody that this is going to be a question we will need to answer
# fr33domlover We've had a forum thread iirc about a similar topic, would we support proprietary implementations on the forum if they want to participate, ask for help, etc.
# fr33domlover *We had
# fr33domlover It was some months ago ^_^
# fr33domlover Personally, I think nobody should be blocked from speaking, but if those people spoke, I'd have to ask them about the nature of their projects before I could feel comfortable to help them or work with them. I think a good guideline may be that projects whose purpose is to serve people, the public, in harmony, those are the safe ones to have in the community, and the projects that have other purposes such
# fr33domlover as profit, we should be very very careful about
# fr33domlover Because they could bring damage to the ecosystem and social web user community
# fr33domlover And we'd be teaching them how to do it..
# fr33domlover Or giving them the tools, access, visibility, etc.
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