#social 2019-12-07

2019-12-07 UTC
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nightpool[m] Hi all! just a reminder that the next Social CG meeting is tomorrow! Please take a look at the agenda here and let me know if you have anything to add!
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nightpool[m] https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/12-7-socialcg-telecon/339
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nightpool[m] meeting in an hour and a half!
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cwebber2 hi!
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cwebber2 meeting in 45mins eh?
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sl007 happening now https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/2019-11-23-socialcg-meeting/321
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cwebber2 Shlee_: oh , I see you were deafened when I said that... not sure if I remember you being in the meeting before, if you're new be sure to join https://www.w3.org/community/SocialCG/ on that page before contributing (you can listen, but not contribute, without joining... this is to protect against people throwing submarine patents into the group)
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cwebber2 nightpool: assume you're joining? :)
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Shlee_ @cwebber2
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Shlee_ Sorry. I'm just getting setup. I was planning on purely listening, but didn't mean to mute my speakers (oops).
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cwebber2 Shlee_: np :)
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cwebber2 trackbot, start meeting
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RRSAgent logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/12/07-social-irc
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cwebber2 Zakim, this is mumble on dustycloud.org / port 64738 / password “goblincamp”
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Zakim got it, cwebber2
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cwebber2 RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, cwebber2
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cwebber2 Zakim, make logs public
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Zakim I don't understand 'make logs public', cwebber2
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cwebber2 Meeting: Social CG Telecon
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cwebber2 Meeting: Social CG Telecon
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cwebber2 RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, cwebber2
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cwebber2 chair: nightpool
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cwebber2 scribenick: cwebber2
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cwebber2 https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/12-7-socialcg-telecon/339
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cwebber2 topic: introductions
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cwebber2 cwebber2: I'm activitypub co-editor and socialcg co-chair
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cwebber2 nightpool: I'm a mstodon developer and socialcg co-chair
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cwebber2 sl007: I work on Redactor, an ActivityPub CMS
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cwebber2 topic: Goals and roadmap for the SocialCG in 2020
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cwebber2 nightpool: I wanted to get an interest check for what work the socialcg can do in 2020
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cwebber2 q+
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nightpool[m] ack cwebber
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nightpool[m] cwebber: I think the work on how to integration beear tokens an capabilities and stuff like that is of interest
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nightpool[m] cwebber: I would be really interested to see what the wider fediverse would like to prioritize. We have a smaller set of people at this meeting, but the work on protocol interation is of high interest to me
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cwebber2 sl007: I agree with cwebber about ocappub / bearer tokens / etc. I'd like to improve the onboarding experience, especially with main activitypub.rocks page
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cwebber2 sl007: I hoped hellekin would be here, but I could read the post about activitypub at offdem
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cwebber2 ack sl007
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cwebber2 nightpool: I definitely think that we need some sort of input from the wider fediverse here, would be interested in how we can do that... a survey, or?
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cwebber2 q+
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nightpool[m] ack cwebber2 (IRC)
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nightpool ack cwebber
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sl007 q+
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cwebber2 ack sl
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nightpool[m] ack sl
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cwebber2 sl007: I mentioned the post by rigel where Chris already answered some things on socialhub, some things were repeated on the forum, for example scmittlauch (sp?) to link things on the activitypub.rocks page, and top-bar links on there
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nightpool[m] cwebber: Surveys are useful, but we also need people to work on priorities, so having a long backlog doesn't help if we don't also pull in people to work on those things
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cwebber2 sl007: part of the question is, who can edit the main page?
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cwebber2 sl007: I can see also a demonstration, and he was already working on that
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cwebber2 nightpool: yes, I guess I'm not exactly sure how to answer that in the context of this discussion, but I definitely think improving activitypub.rocks is important; there's a couple of different avenues of open-ended "what should be on there" and individual getting-things-on-there. While I think it's good to keep talking about this about what to add to the page, it's a bit early to make concrete specific changes
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cwebber2 q+
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nightpool[m] ack cwebber
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nightpool[m] cwebber: I'm looking at the demo site right now (https://rigelk.gitlab.io/activitypub.rocks) and it looks pretty good, and I think a lot of the stuff can be handled pretty easily (the visual cleanup, linking to socialhub.activitypub.rocks, including some videos). There are a couple of more controversial/open questions about guides and what we put in the "for users" section.
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nightpool[m] cwebber: I think those sections are more tricky and the community needs to discuss that. And the user page is also tricky, because the implementations we prioritize could be a source of conflict.
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nightpool[m] cwebber: do you have experience on that to add, nightpool?
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cwebber2 q?
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cwebber2 nightpool: yeah... the Join Mastodon has gone through a few different changes in terms of how we source them, we initially just sourced them from the crawler, recently there's a new standard they have to adhere to
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cwebber2 nightpool: there's an "instance covenant" that lays out a baseline about what needs to be included on the page. so instances that agree to that can be added. a question to me is "who is the main use case for the for users page"?
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cwebber2 nightpool: are we trying to promote the visibility of implementations? A more aspirational picture of what's possible? What's the high level goal, where do we see that fitting into the current page which is very implementor focused
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cwebber2 nightpool: I definitely think... it's good to change that, but I want to think about what that means
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cwebber2 cwebber: should we move this discussion to the socialhub forum?
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cwebber2 nightpool: I think that makes sense
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nightpool[m] cwebber: i don't think we need a resolution on this, let's just move this conversation there if there aren't any objections.
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nightpool[m] nightpool: what's the specific, practical end-goal of those discussions? something to propose to the group?
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cwebber2 cwebber: topic 1: Should activitypub.rocks link to a guide that isn't the speicfication, and if so, what?
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cwebber2 cwebber: topic 2: Should activitypub.rocks give recommendations to users on software / instances to start using?
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sl007 q+
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nightpool[m] ack sl
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cwebber2 cwebber: I think maybe it makes more sense to not recommend instances but just recommend software, the software cand recommend their own implementations
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cwebber2 sl007: we could link to https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/c/software
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cwebber2 nightpool: yes but let's move this discussion to the forum
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cwebber2 nightpool: I think if we think these visual changes are easier to make, let's set a goal. I can take this on as an action item, or you can cwebber2?
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cwebber2 nightpool: do you think we can get them made before the next emeting?
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cwebber2 cwebber2: I can try to get them done by today, if I can't, it won't happen by the next meeting
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cwebber2 nightpool: ok, I can try to see how to get it running
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cwebber2 cwebber2: I can give some instructions off-meeting
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cwebber2 nightpool: anything else if we're popping the stack upwards
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cwebber2 nightpool: any other thoughts on 2020?
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cwebber2 q+
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sl007 q+
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nightpool[m] ack cwebber
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cwebber2 cwebber: how to keep engagement in these meetings?
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nightpool[m] cwebber: we've been really spiky with engagement in this meeting, should we set a goal on that / do people have thoughts on how to keep the drumbeat going?
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cwebber2 nightpool: I think that's important... let me collect my thoughts
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nightpool[m] ack sl
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cwebber2 sl007: I just wanted to mention the FOSSDEM / OFFDEM thing again, it's just this one post in the socialhub forum in it so far, but nobody replied to hellekin. After organizing apconf I can't organize it on my own. If we want to be with activitypub at either of them, there needs to be some other people
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cwebber2 sl007: there is a dedicated room where we can have a dedicated conference at OFFDEM, there's an opportunity not seen at FOSDEM not normally seen in the tech meeting of FOSDEM
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cwebber2 nightpool: great, do you think about how that ties in with (bi)weekly meetings?
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cwebber2 sl007: I'm not sure, maybe we should wait until hellekin is in the meeting
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cwebber2 nightpool: one other thing to mention quickly, then we can set this down for now, the post you made on socialhub on offdem is only visible to people in a certain category... it's only visible to people who have made interest in FOSDEM, maybe we can make it more public?
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cwebber2 sl007: yes I'll point that out to hellekin
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cwebber2 nightpool: yeah I think this meeting tends to get a lot of interest when people have things they want to discuss. Capturing that and making progress on them will make a difference. kaniini mentioned that these meetings don't tie in as well into the issue tracker. we can mention these things on the issue tracker / telecon
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cwebber2 q?
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nightpool[m] ack cwebber2 (IRC)
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nightpool[m] cwebber: two things. first about the issue tracker / forum threads, I think it makes sense to mention that, and there's two directions that can flow. One is mentioning these meetings on those issues, and the other is getting those issues onto the meeting agenda. A lot of our open issues have been pretty stagnant, and we can work to get resolution on them and walk through them in this meeting.
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cwebber2 q+
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cwebber2 nightpool: that's a good point, there's two categories of issues, one is to get clarification on the spec. sometimes those move to normative / non-normative spec changes. Making a list of those and going through them on the meetings can be useful especially when they're low hanging fruit, and may give us forward momentum. The second is the broader issues we keep coming back to: in-page social activity, restricting replying, etc.
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cwebber2 It's not as clear to me whether it's as useful to do so in the meetings
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nightpool[m] cwebber: right, is there a meaningful way to gauge progress vs. layering coats of paint on the bikeshed. If there isn't a lot of momentum being made, do people really have something new to say and if there isn't something new, we should move things further back on the queue
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cwebber2 nightpool: yeah, if we do triage maybe we can figure that out better, at least if we do that we can get to the state of knowing what they are
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cwebber2 q?
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cwebber2 https://emacsconf.org/2019/
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cwebber2 https://emacsconf.org/2019/videos
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nightpool[m] cwebber: about conferences—personally, i'm not traveling next year. Are there ways we can still do conference-like things that still allows people who don't travel to attend? For example, the emacs conference this year happened entirely online using free software, using jitsi meet for online live streaming. Is that something worth exploring?
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nightpool[m] cwebber: There's a lot of value in meeting in person, but there are a lot of costs too. A lot of people got a lot of value out of the recent ActivityConf, but a lot of others weren't able to attend. Is an econference thing something people are interested in doing?
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nightpool[m] ack sl
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cwebber2 sl007: cwebber you mentioned the barcelona thing, is there any news on that one?
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cwebber2 cwebber: I don't know of anything about the barcelona event
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cwebber2 sl007: if this is not happening I would go for the virtual conference
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cwebber2 nightpool: I think a virtual conference would be great. Making a good decision on that now so we could give people on that lead time would be great, maybe around this summer?
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cambridgeport90[m] If it's virtual, then, I might even actually try and be there? That would be great. Not sure how much I can contribute not being a developer, but ... we'll see.
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cwebber2 cwebber2: the person who ran the emacs conference, which I thought went great, offered to help guide us in running one
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cwebber2 https://emacsconf.org/2019/videos
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cwebber2 nightpool: yes we should put it on the forum but be clear that it's tentative, not say we're completely committed yet, we're still exploring it but gathering feedback
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cwebber2 +1
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sl007 +1
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Shlee Do you have an estimation of costs for a emacscon style econference?
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nightpool[m] cwebber: I don't have any estimation on the costs, but I will ask. My guess is that the costs are extremely negligable, they did the streaming off of jitsi meet and put up the recordings on peertube and another mirror. The main costs are probably going to be time and volunteer effort, but I'm definitely going to reach out and ask
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cwebber2 bandali
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nightpool[m] action item: nightpool to create the socialhub thread, and chris to talk to bandali, who ran emacsconf, and follow up on the thread.
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RRSAgent records action 1
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cwebber2 cwebber: just wanted to say congrats on doing a great job chairing your first socialcg meeting :)
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sl007 to nightpool /me applause applause applause
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cambridgeport90[m] What do you guys need and I will help out. I just got a new server and right now she needs stuff to do, so bring it on.
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cwebber2 nightpool: I think the final topic can be deferred for this meeting (content and plain text stuff) doesn't have the interested parties so we'll do that next time
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cwebber2 cambridgeport90[m]: cool thanks :)
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cwebber2 Zakim, bye
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cwebber2 RRSAgent, create minuttes
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RRSAgent I'm logging. I don't understand 'create minuttes', cwebber2. Try /msg RRSAgent help
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nightpool[m] s/do that next time/move that discussion back to the forums and bring it back here when there's more progress to talk about/
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cwebber2 RRSAgent, create minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/12/07-social-minutes.html cwebber2
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cwebber2 RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2019/12/07-social-actions.rdf :
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RRSAgent ACTION: item to nightpool to create the socialhub thread, and chris to talk to bandali, who ran emacsconf, and follow up on the thread. [1]
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RRSAgent recorded in https://www.w3.org/2019/12/07-social-irc#T16-54-59
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nightpool[m] there was another action item, which was cwebber2 to send me documentation on the current activitypub.rocks install and me to try and get a version of it running locally to develop with
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cwebber2 yes
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cwebber2 nightpool: will work on that
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cambridgeport90[m] Of course. I will have a PeerTube server running along with a Friendica, Nextcloud, and possibly some other little things.
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nightpool[m] Zakim, by
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nightpool[m] Zakim, bye
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nightpool[m] oh zakim already left, I missed that
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nightpool[m] whoops
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nightpool[m] great meeting everyone!
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cwebber2 yes indeed :)
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fr33domlover Hey people
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fr33domlover I see a mention of ocappub
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fr33domlover I'm not a fediverse server dev but I'm very interested to see ocappub on the fediverse ^_^
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cambridgeport90[m] They are pretty awesome.
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cwebber2 nightpool: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/how-to-hack-on-activitypub-rocks/375
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cwebber2 I figured, why not document it for everyone
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nightpool[m] great!