sl007Wondering who put this graphic on the Social CG Homepage which does neither mention the last 14 meetings nor the Conf and the repo, just a “blank graphic” https://mastodon.social/@sl007/105321164500565435
rhiaro... i'm very interested to hear from sebastian and others who are advocating for AP in the EU context what your experiences and needs are and how we could promote that conversation in the right way
rhiaro... I talked to two members of the EU parliament which is patrick briar, who is a good person to approach, the other is karen (??) who is actively promoting interop
rhiaro... in general it feels like germany and france are leading, but on the other hand some countries are protecting monopolies, the D9 group, the group with low taxes for google etc. Finalnd, Sweden, Poland, Ireland, Luxembourg
rhiaro... I want approach Dr Sylvia Gruntman who is a real expert, but is the head of internet of council of europe so not directly nvolved in legislation
cwebber2rhiaro: cwebber2 is in an irc channel with treora; treora has been working on some policy stuff in brussels, we might want to loop him into this conversation?
rhiaro... we don't have to talk about it now, but at some point, it is hard to think to address someone who doesn't know anything and just wants to engage
rhiaro... My primary concern is if we get many people using AP we should make very clear what an AP cnformant servcie would be. Does it have to support all tpyes? Seems nobody cares what it says now
rhiaro... we should support the whole of the protoocl but we should weigh it by design. Of course there will be specialised and diverse clients but they shouldn't lose information
rhiaro... at least I have ot know how I can send them a thing and we don't hav ea discovery things.. so mastodon says to me in advance that they only support Note, etc
rhiaro... but it's a compliment that we've got far enough along that it's not just nerds talking about sending data across the wire, but about building communities
rhiaro... If we were going to at this moment say we're going to give some principles for the EU to adopt right now as a recommednation or requirement, what would it be?
rhiaro... It has to be an open standard that federates. The key thing is there are multiple instances, providing the thing, that can talking to each other
rhiaro... if a major company has a proprietary implementation that they don't expose, we might not prefer it but it's not the end of the world if there are open options available
rhiaro... the biggest problem I have and emotionally have difficulty listening ot any of the hearings, is that everyone coming in is from the perspective that this is all about only big players
rhiaro... a lot of the languag,e despite a lot of good intents behind it, a lot of the language assumes that it's for big players, and didn't have the assumption that there would be self hosting
rhiaro... I've been by far the only major contributor to gofed and the lack of funding and lack of ease of obtaining open source funding definitely was a challenge to get other people motivated to help contribute
rhiaro... people see the value but then see the barrier and time and effort it can take to implement an AP thing, it's not an easy specification, they get very easily discouraged
rhiaro... in another situation I applied 11 times for funding at mozilla at the open tech fund and at ngi 3 times.. not blaming anyone that I didn't get funding but my impression is it's because everybody thinks if you did war photography for 30 years of yor life and are well known
rhiaro... and decide to step 100% in the AP world because you see the need for pan european media to do their own thing and become independant from facebook
rhiaro... the second one is the health of the community is often built on top of an economic system that isn't really built with the expetation in general that these kinds of free-rider problems
rhiaro... What is sounds like this is tying into is there a way in addition ot the first set of things - the principles to make sure there's a non-monopolistic community supporting approach to communicatin on the internet
rhiaro... While talking to regulators say we can make the situation better for our citizens by accomplishing this former thing - open protocols etc - but some of the work needs to be doine by people who aren't supported by our economic system
rhiarojoost: I agree with the fundamental issue that the maintainers and developers of architecture everyone is relying on are usually the most underpaid people
rhiaro... one of the main reasons we like to shift focus from these grants we manage from putting it into startups and proprietary or limited lifespan ideas, into the architecture and infrastructure that is being maintained by people on a voluntary basis
rhiaro... that we rely on major institutions, governments, etc, rely on US based proprietary infra to even get their point across, to engage with citizens.
rhiaro... that this type of alternative for twitter and facebook, I agree with gdpr and these interop discussions, in the end there's a very strange thing going on
rhiaro... I did not have a lot of technical expertise, still working on that, moving beyond the geek/developer only space to a space where people can explain it without using any of the lingo, that is an important time to wherever possible show members of parliament that there is already an alternative
rhiaro... you could go with the popular hype words of saying there's no 'fake news' on mastodon, can imagine that you might run a risk of the discussion being pulled in that direction, the echo chamber idea
rhiaro... something to be said that twitter and fb are fundamentally made to instigate sensationalism and extremism. They wll say it's not but that is to attract as many eyeballs
rhiaro... the conclusion here is that activitypub has a very solid footing right now and very solid position to show that there is already something bubbling in europe that the political people are not seeing
rhiaro... patrick briar siad to me that the group around him is very aware that activitypub needs additional funding if it becomes a law and he will help us
rhiaro... the last thing I want to get in - everyone roughly agrees on the framing that we put out earlier in this call about how to be able to go about it
rhiaro... joost mentioned that the whole twitter hatespeech idea might not be one to bring up - you may be curious that in the fediverse land there was a case where a far right extremeist group gab joined and eventually left because 99% of the communities on the fediverse wound up blocking them. It was an instant way th ecommunity self-healed
rhiarosl0071: I wanted to say the same as cj - it's very important that there is not much money involved in fb and twitter for moderation. what they're doing is an algorithm to block a page without any discussion about anything
rhiaro... it is exactly what cj said with gab - the AP community self-healed, humans which did this not algorithms, at facebook these are algorithms which make the loudest even louder instead of equalling the voices
rhiarojoost: involving my colleague michiel into this, he has a long background and connections in dealing with the EC from the political and administrative ends
sl007just btw: Is anybody here on mastodon.social? It is incredible slow for me (sl007) since today morning (Germany here) and only this, chaos.social (redaktor) is fine
sl007 Social CG meeting today is 3 UTC and we are meeting via jitsi https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/2020-12-04-socialcg-meeting/1166
Loqi [Sebastian Lasse, redaktor.me] @cwebber
@aaronpk WHO has put this ridiculous thing on the Homepage of Social CG recently?Frustrating Mobbing of volunteers.Why do we biweekly meetings with Logs ???
Why do we do a conf ⬡ https://conf.activitypub.rocks ???
Why are there many repo... https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/105/321/148/871/862/214/original/4b02025f1445a2c7.png
RRSAgent logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/12/04-social-irc
cwebber2 Zakim, this is jitsi on https://meet.jit.si/ScatteredConsequencesActRegardless
rhiaro ... I did not have a lot of technical expertise, still working on that, moving beyond the geek/developer only space to a space where people can explain it without using any of the lingo, that is an important time to wherever possible show members of parliament that there is already an alternative