#social 2021-04-23
2021-04-23 UTC
tantek, xmpp-social, Grishka and hellekin joined the channel
# 
hellekin hello. Social CG meeting in about 35 minutes right?
# Grishka afaik yes
sl007 and xmpp-social joined the channel
# sl007 Social CG meeting in 10 minutes, BBB https://bbb.w3c.social/b/rhi-vp1-fv6-vn7
paul joined the channel
# bengo1 Is there a calendar on next cloud for socialcg?
# bengo1 Wait. I thought it was tomorrow?
# bengo1 Err no. 10am
# bengo1 shoot. 9am.
# hellekin can we deprecate linear time?
# bengo1 lol
# Grishka linear time?
# bengo1 I’m subscribed to that next cloud cal via iCal and it shows up at 10am lol
# bengo1 weird
# Grishka can we at least deprecate the am/pm thing? ;)
# bengo1 That says 6pm London. It’s 5pm in London now, right?
# hellekin yes should be
# bengo1 But next cloud is off by one.
# bengo1 But the forum post says now, so let’s do now
# bengo1 Sorry, just had to move another meeting I had now. Joining
# Grishka the socialhub says it's 7 pm (can I change it to show it as 19?!) in Moscow timezone, which is about now
# hellekin I guess we are waiting for rhiaro to start the BBB meeting
# sl007 yes, rhiaro has to join as they started the room
# Grishka if anyone is wondering, setting the language to "English (UK)" did the trick
# bengo1 I’ve asked rhiaro privately to start it. Until then, I’ll be in https://meet.jit.si/SocialCG
# sl007 I could also open a second room on the bbb
paul joined the channel
# bengo1 We’re meeting in here https://meet.jit.si/SocialCG Sorry for last minute change.
# dmitriz ^ +1
# sl007 +1
# sl007 p+
# Grishka it says I'm the only one in the meeting
# bengo1 Doing reintroductions/hello
# Grishka okay, it's service workers AGAIN
# bengo1 Intros: bengo, Dmitri, Sebastian so far
# Grishka imagine making a website in 2021 without a service worker
# bengo1 (Using irc as light notes)
# dmitriz @Grishka - come to https://meet.jit.si/SocialCG
# bengo1 Grishka introducing https://github.com/grishka/Smithereen
paul joined the channel
# Grishka I'd show some screenshots but IRC doesn't support that
# dmitriz @Grishka - you could share screen tho
# bengo1 bengo: Beginning project updates (5m) with Sebastian: redaktor
# bengo1 Sebastian is sharing screen for demo. Cool!
# dmitriz scribe+ dmitriz
# dmitriz sl007 - (overview of Redacktor)
# dmitriz ... written in TypeScript, headless CMS
# dmitriz ... uses widgets / WebComponents
# bengo1 2min remaining
# dmitriz sl007 - I've done a PoC / pilot, where I showcased different widgets / cards
# dmitriz ... (showing screenshots)
# bengo1 Times up :)
# bengo1 scribe+ bengo
# bengo1 Dmitri: Hey I’m Dmitri, codenamedmitri in socialhub
# bengo1 dmitri: do a lot of work in verifiable credentials, solid, DIF Confidential Storage
# bengo1 dmitri: I’m always the first one to recommend ActivityPub whenever it’s appropriate. Want to build bridges to DIF, CCG, Fediverse
# bengo1 dmitri: Currently involved with two projects. First is life-server, which is a solid server written in javascript, which I’m working on adding ActivityPub integrations to
# bengo1 dmitri: Other one is xr3ngine, which is VR and AR (Augmented Reality) server and client that runs in the web browser
# 
Loqi [xr3ngine] xr3ngine: An end-to-end solution for hosting humans and AI in a virtual space, built on top of react, three.js and express/feathers. This repo includes a fully-feature client, API server, realtime gamerserver, game engine and devops for scalable deployment. Pick and choose what you need or deploy the whole stack and start building your application on top.
paul joined the channel
# bengo1 dmitri: Before I got involved int he project, I did not realize how much 3d/VR stuff is built into the web browser, and how good the WebXR APIs are
# bengo1 dmitri: VR community is interested in ActivityPub integration and Solid tech
# Grishka So this way, it would not only melt your GPU with all the 2D graphics, but also your CPU with all the JavaScript 🤣
# bengo1 dmitri: They are starting up a group that I’m encouraging to coordinate with this group here. Need to standardize things like friends list, contacts list, activitiy feeds, etc.
# Grishka *3D
# bengo1 dmitri: First call for that group is today in 2.5 hrs
# bengo1 dmitri: Open meta verse intro group
# bengo1 (2m15s remaining)
# bengo1 dmitri: I want to see cross pollination there. People from this community should come join
# bengo1 dmitri: Come join the open meta verse interop group
# bengo1 Grishka is gregory?
# bengo1 Grishka: I don’t think anyone has seen my project
# bengo1 Grishka: This is the news feed. Looks like Facebook. Has posts like this.
# dmitriz https://github.com/grishka/Smithereen ^
# bengo1 Grishka: There are walls (on user profile pages). You can go to other peoples pages, write something. Can change language
# bengo1 (it looks like og thefacebook.com but green)
# bengo1 Grishka: There is. page for my friends. Can see friend requests. Can see profiles with walls.
# dmitriz +1, Groups are super important
# bengo1 Grishka: The one thing that no one wants to talka bout ever in ActivityPub… Groups!
# bengo1 Grishka: This is a group, where people can join. Other people can manage. Or moderate.
# bengo1 Grishka: They are fully federated. Haven’t tested that, because there is only one instance, which is this one.
# hellekin I'd be interested in setting up a smithereen instance for testing
# bengo1 Grishka: This only works locally right now. So you can’t promote remote users to administrators.
# dmitriz @Grishka -- good design!
# bengo1 Grishka: This is a feature I built the other day: Blocklists
# hellekin maybe we can do that on Thursday during the workshop Grishka?
# bengo1 Grishka: Groups also have walls. (Demos it)
# bengo1 Grishka: Next features I’m working on is: being able to send email notifications/confirmations, password resets
# bengo1 Grishka: Currently there is no way to reset your password. That’s annoying. After that’s done, I will make my first release
# bengo1 Grishka: Collaborators not at this point
# bengo1 Grishka: I’ve always created a Fediverse Enhancement Proposal about federated walls. That’s something I want other projects to support if they have such features
# bengo1 Inspired by VK
# dmitriz VKontakte
# dmitriz (which just translates to "In Contact")
# bengo1 ianconsolata: demoing
# Grishka hellekin you'll be able to do that after I make my first release ;)
# bengo1 ianconsolata: Project I’m working on is https://understory.coop
# bengo1 ianconsolata: One thing I want to show off and talk about and could use eyes/help on is...
# bengo1 ianconsolata: I used to work at circleci. We wanna know: How can we use solid as a personal data storage layer to configure things people want to deploy on a regular basis
# bengo1 ianconsolata: new verbal build based on these configuration files
# bengo1 ianconsolata: understory.garden is a personal content management system. Write notes. Configure content in our system
# bengo1 ianconsolata: what you do to deploy that is to write this simple turtle file that talks about what you want to deploy. Takes a template.
# bengo1 ianconsolata: We’re trying to lean into how can we get users to deploy their own social applications
# bengo1 ianconsolata: promotes all these unique takes on social networks
# bengo1 ianconsolata: we want them to all be interoperable.
# bengo1 ianconsolata: reach out to understory.coop
# dmitriz ianconsolata: we're interested in doing a Solid + Federated ActivityPub server
# dmitriz ... we need some type of Webhook / update functionality (like WebSub)
# bengo1 (I had forgotten to start timer FWIW)
# bengo1 https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/
# dmitriz ... if anyone has suggestions, I'm new to the standards process and to W3C, but my background is from industry, so I have a lot of things to contribute
# bengo1 Nee https://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/
# dmitriz ... I'm really excited about these standards from a technical perspective, and I want to see wider adoption
# Grishka one thing I forgot to say about Smithereen — the aim here is to recreate that cozy experience of just you and your friends and nothing in between you all, like in the good old days of VK before it was acquired and ruined
# dmitriz bengo1: next up, let's talk about process
# dmitriz ... I added something to the GH issue tracker a week ago,
# dmitriz ... with the resolution / proposal that - that is should be the Issue Tracker for this CG
# dmitriz ... hellekin commented recently, proposing that we should use a Federated issue tracker, when that's ready
# dmitriz bengo1: I want to incentivize people to move issues forward, async (outside of this call)
# dmitriz ... and there's always room for process improvement
# dmitriz q+
# Grishka lol'd at hellekin's github profile pic
# hellekin q+
# bengo1 dmitri: no big objection.
# bengo1 Dmitriz: How is SWICG diff than SocialCG
# bengo1 bengo: I think they’r enot
# bengo1 Q? hellikin
# bengo1 hellikin: We had previous resolved to use that
# dmitriz hellekin: we were thinking of using the w3c ActivityPub repo for this
# dmitriz ... we didn't want to use the larger CG with AP stuff
# dmitriz ... so I propose that, for AP-specific issues, we use the AP repo. And for more general issues, we use the one Ben proposed?
# Grishka there's also a third one where FEPs live
# dmitriz bengo1: my main goal is to consolidate the various places (forum threads, etc), and make it clearer on where issues should be brought up
# dmitriz q+
# bengo1 dmitriz: All good points. Sounds like we should revisit this topic on the next call
# bengo1 dmitriz: We want to resume regular calls again.
# bengo1 dmitriz: summary: We have two specific specs with their own issue trackers (activitypub + activity streams) not to mention websub
# bengo1 dmitriz: for more general social web issues, we should figure out where the issues go.
# bengo1 dmitriz: We should figure out where the FEPs live too
# bengo1 dmitriz: Main deliverable by next call is a page that outlines this process.
# bengo1 dmitriz: e.g. activity pub issues go here, FEPs live here
# bengo1 dmitriz: i.e. a documentation page
# bengo1 dmitriz: Brings up the question which is: What is the entryway to this group?
# dmitriz sl007 - so, ActivityPubRocks is currently the main entryway
# hellekin q+
# dmitriz ... some community members did a lot of work on rebooting it (like CWebber), but that hasn't been published yet
# dmitriz ... and it would be nice if we could resurrect it
# dmitriz ... the idea was to make it an entrypoint for users, developers, also a link to the forum,
# dmitriz ... Also, if anybody wants to take over FediverseSpace, the source code is open, and we can link to it as well
tantek joined the channel
# dmitriz hellekin: I think sl007 makes good points,
# dmitriz ... we need a way to get collective ownership of the site, so that no one person is a bottleneck
# dmitriz ... there's already a topic on that, on SocialHub
# dmitriz ... and we can open a topic on the specific issue tracker, once we settle on one
# dmitriz bengo1: sounds like dmitriz has proposed that - we summarize the state of the issue trackers. (at least list them)
# dmitriz ... anybody want to volunteer to do that? Or I can
# bengo1 ACTION: bengo to draft issue tracker overview
# dmitriz @bengo1 - I'm happy to collaborate with you on that
# dmitriz bengo1: also, I have an ActivityPub.com domain, which I'd love to use
# dmitriz ... to manage collectively
# dmitriz ... and I'd love to set up an Infrastructure As Code repo that automates some of it, so that people can make PRs etc
# dmitriz ... similar to w3id.org
# dmitriz ... I'll draft a proposal for that over time.
# dmitriz ... but lets start with this first proposal, of just listing / sorting out the issue trackers
# bengo1 Q?
# dmitriz bengo1: next up - anybody have suggestions for next topics, general discussion points?
# bengo1 Call for Topics for next call
# dmitriz ianconsolata: i'd be happy to help set up that community infrastructure repo when the time comes / that proposal passes, Ben
# Grishka I don't think that queue bot works without you setting it up first
# bengo1 It’s an imaginary Q
# dmitriz bengo1: how does one use that?
# dmitriz bengo1: I've heard the beginnings of a topic from Grishka, about some of the related standards, like Capability Negotiation, Groups, etc
# dmitriz +1, Grishka, config discovery / negotiation is hugely important
# dmitriz Grishka: yeah, we have 1000s of ActivityPub installations with disparate feature sets
# dmitriz sl007: helleken, ah, we're talking about /negotiation/ part of capabilities, not like Object Capabilities specifically
# dmitriz Grishka: right, basically, discovering what feature sets each server supports
# dmitriz sl007: let's start with the Conformance section in the spec.
# dmitriz sl007: if I read it correctly, we don't really have any major Conformant software on the market except Pleroma
# dmitriz sl007: because that section says you need to implement the ENTIRE protocol for conformance
# dmitriz ... which is not realistic
# dmitriz ... (mentions multi-language support problems with Mastodon)
# dmitriz ... so yeah, we need machine-readable ways of feature conformance discovery
# bengo1 q+ to wrap meeting
# dmitriz oooh right, we're at the top of the hour
# bengo1 (People can stay after though, but we can relieve scribe etc)
# bengo1 Sebastian proposing an agenda item for capability authorization work for next time
# hellekin s/authorization/negotiation/
# hellekin q+
RRSAgent joined the channel
# 
RRSAgent logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/23-social-irc
Zakim joined the channel
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/23-social-minutes.html rhiaro
# hellekin present+
# Grishka a thought: maybe we should have ActivityPub compliance "profiles" that are discrete feature sets
# Grishka like a groups profile, that includes groups themselves and moderators
# Grishka and the basic microblogging profile that is most of the Mastodon feature set
# bengo1 hellekin: how do I move this out of ‘Drafts’ and into some community topic? https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/social-cg-issue-trackers/1648
# hellekin oh, don't you have a "publish shared draft" button? Then it must be limited to Staff. Let me hit that button for you.
# bengo1 Thank you
# hellekin done
# hellekin maybe use this as a link to FEPs https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/about-the-fediverse-enhancement-proposals/1168 bengo1
# hellekin or even the public page https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/pub/fediverse-enhancement-proposals
xmpp-social joined the channel
# bengo1 @hellikin done
Zakim left the channel
xmpp-social, Guest67 and jon[m] joined the channel
# dansup_ Forgot about this channel, its been a minute ;)