#social 2021-05-07
2021-05-07 UTC
xmpp-social, erincandescent, dmitriz, er1ncandescent and sl007 joined the channel
# 
sl007 Meeting at 5pm UTC https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/2021-05-07-socialcg-meeting/1697
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# 
RRSAgent logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-social-irc
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-social-minutes.html rhiaro
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# dmitriz reminder - SW CG meeting in 49 mins
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# dmitriz meeting starting at https://bbb.w3c.social/b/rhi-vp1-fv6-vn7
# dmitriz scribe: dmitriz
# dmitriz scribenick: dmitriz
# dmitriz bengo: ok, let's start this off
# Grishka +present
# dmitriz present+
# bengo present+
# dmitriz dmitriz: <intro>
# dmitriz grishka: Hi. Am interested in giving Social Media back to people
# dmitriz argh, scribe missed sl007's intro
# dmitriz bengo: next topic: let's revisit the Saturday alternating meeting time
# dmitriz ... the current time (7am PDT) is a bit early.
# dmitriz ... So I was wondering if we could do like, a ranked choice voting on the Saturday time slot. Any objections?
# dmitriz grishka: no objections, later would be better
# dmitriz bengo: ok, let's do a ranked choice vote on the time slots (Sunday also available)
# dmitriz sl007: hey, Sunday would be even better
# dmitriz grishka: that FEP has to do with confirming whether an item already exists in the collection before adding it
# dmitriz ... I'd like to hear people's opinions on whether that's already needed, or just me
# bengo scribenick: bengo
# bengo bengo: Send an Accept to a Follow if you want to, but you don’t have to
# bengo bengo: Do you feel blocked on implementing something?
# bengo grishka: It’s not Accept, it’s Add. Because you’re proposing to Add something to the Collection.
# bengo grishka: I’m thinking about updating the FEP with this requirement of the Add activity
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# bengo bengo: Yes, update the FEP and notify us of changes
# bengo grishka: someone says it’s excessive to require the Add activity
# dmitriz bengo: since the spec says SHOULD instead of MUST, seems like you're fine
# bengo bengo: What about your other use case of querying remote collection for containment
# bengo grishka: I need to read more
# dmitriz q+ to talk about LDP paging (to suggest against)
# bengo Q?
# bengo Dmitriz: Paging/sorting was not done well in LDP-PAGING.
# bengo dmitriz: It’s very under-specified.
# sl007 q+
# bengo dmitriz: That said, LDP did have a long discussion on adding an item only if it doesn’t exist
# bengo dmitriz: The initial proposal was to using If-Not-Modified HTTP headers
# bengo dmitriz: It was complicated for some implementations to normalize/canonicalize the items of the collection to understand if an item was present, and what the If-Not-Modfiied HTTP header value should be
# bengo dmitriz: The discussion was inconclusive.
# bengo bengo: Is that the approach you’d tak enow?
# bengo dmitriz: Not sure. Need to think about it
# Grishka someone has the same email alert sound as me lol
# dmitriz bengo: one thing that's on my mind a lot is, with AP, should we even use HTTP headers? (vs stuff everything into the request body?)
# dmitriz ... given that AP lends itself well to non-HTTP transports (websockets etc).
# dmitriz ... so I'd be hesitant to use a header like If-Not-Modified
# bengo “HTTP Signatures” is mentioned only twice in AP TR
# bengo and not with normative languages
# bengo grishka: HTTP Signatures are used in more implementations. And are easier to implement and universally understood
# bengo grishka: For example, Pleroma doesn’t support JSON-LD at all. Only relies on HTTP Signatures
# bengo dmitriz: Funny thing is that HTTP Signatures is seeing more activity at IETF, and they’re in process of changing it
# bengo bengo: Linked Data Signatures WG forming https://w3c.github.io/lds-wg-charter/explainer.html#usage
# bengo grishka: There is a 2-year old topic about these signatures
# bengo grishka: I have implemented Linked Data Signatures with unit tests
# bengo Grishka: Now I’m not touching them
# dmitriz q-
# dmitriz ack sl
# bengo sl007: In the last meeting we talked about finding out whether the impl would support Accept/Follow
# bengo sl007: If you would have a think like Follow, for instance, you could be able o say which actions are supported for which groups of people
# bengo sl007: For example, is someone allowed to post a ‘Wall Post’.
# bengo sl007: So ‘as:Public’ would advertise that anyone can post to the Wall
# bengo sl007: Another example ‘partyCheckin’ saying who could Arrive and who could Leave
# bengo sl007: Specify which activity type, which object type, and which actors
# bengo grishka: It should be specified who can add something to a collection
# bengo grishka: Owner of a Collection should be able to do anything with it
# bengo bengo: This reminds me of Web ACLs in Solid
# bengo dmitriz: In general I think ActivityPub needs better Authorization/ACL specs applied to it
# bengo dmitriz: Can we map the existing solid-style ACL to this type of operation? I’m not sure
# bengo dmitriz: I’m campaigning to get Solid to adopt AP-style Follow. But we haven’t gotten to Access Control
# bengo sl007: The main reason this is useful. I want to know from an AP implementation: “Do you support groups"
# bengo sl007: or “Which actions do you support?"
# bengo sl007: e.g. if I invite someone to a group, in my implementation a group invite can result in an Accept/Reject. But in Mastodon it requires something else.
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# bengo bengo: Have you implemented this?
# bengo sl007: Not yet, but we’re just starting to talk
# bengo bengo: I encourage you to either implement it or author an FEP for others to implement
# bengo Dmitriz: Someone describe OMI
# bengo dmitriz: OMI is “Open Metaverse Interoperability” group. https://github.com/omigroup/OMI
# bengo dmitriz: They want to standardize some of their social/identitiy protocols, and maybe adopt some social web existing work
# bengo sl007: I should translate my sketch to an FEP or implementation
# bengo sl007: My question is: Any opinions on what we should specify via Link relations
# bengo sl007: for example rel=“Inbox” link rel header to the AP inbox
# bengo sl007: In the HTML markup, should we specify that a link relation is an ActivityPub actor vs somethinge else
# dmitriz (side note - welcome to paul & tim from the OMI community, to the call)
# bengo bengo: use https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Content_negotiation
# bengo Sl007: Do any other implementations use friend of a friend link relations?
# dmitriz makes warding signs
# bengo dmitriz: Let’s talk about the issue trackers
# bengo dmitriz: bengo had brought up “Is there a single issue tracker for the SocialCG?”
# dmitriz consensus: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/social-cg-issue-trackers/1648
# bengo dmitriz: Result seems to be these links
# bengo dmitriz: There’s a swing issue tracker, there’s an ActivityPub-specific one, there’s an ActivityStreams2 one
# bengo dmitriz: There are also Fediverse Enhancement Proposals mechanism
# dmitriz bengo: I like how the Aries RFC process is structured
# dmitriz ... might be worth looking at, for us, re the FEP process
# dmitriz ... while we might not be able to update the Activity Pub spec, we can do a lot through FEPs/RFCs
# bengo grishka: [someone] requires that two implementations interop with each other
# bengo dmitriz: Yes, w3dc
# dmitriz s/[someone]/IETF/
# bengo humbletim: What is redaktor?
# bengo sl007: It’s my activitypub-compliant CMS
# bengo https://github.com/redaktor
# bengo humbletim: OMI is many different meta verse process collectively becoming aware that there’s an opportunity/need to collaborate
# bengo humbletim: It’s still formative, but that’s how I’m engaging with it
# bengo humbletim: ActivityPub is one of the things I’ve been looking at
# bengo humbletim: immerse.space has been using it as a thing for inter-world communications
# bengo humbletim: I’ve been trying to prove out some interop. But I’m not sure what to do next with it.
# bengo Dmitriz: Great question
# bengo Dmitriz: Good news is there’s a spec to use. Bad news is it’s kind of vague. Do you have access to source code?
# bengo humbletim: Yes, it is open source.
# bengo humbletim: https://github.com/immers-space/activitypub-express
# bengo humbletim: https://github.com/immers-space/immers-app
# dmitriz and http://immers.space/
# dmitriz (that's a nice AP-express lib!)
# bengo humbletim: I’d like my POC to use a mongodb database. I’ve adapted it to use a pure JavaScript mogo emulation layer. I want to get it to be turnkey for people to play with, make interop easy
# dmitriz everybody, go vote for your preference for alternate week SocialCG calls: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/proposal-rank-choice-meeting-times-for-the-weekend-socialcg-meeting/1713
# bengo Zakim, end meeting
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-social-minutes.html Zakim
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# bengo RRSAgent, bye
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