2011-07-12 UTC
DawnFoster1, josephboyle, shaners, quartzjer, MarkDilley, kcomandi1h, danbri and lmorchard joined the channel
dbounds joined the channel
dbounds, spinnerin, DawnFoster, MarkDilley, quartzjer and shaners joined the channel
# 17:52 aaronpk The IndieWeb needs our own version of +1 and Like # 18:13 Alphi where would we store the Likes? # 18:14 Alphi so more of a linkblog then? # 18:14 aaronpk but I also want to tell the other site that I liked it, so it can do something with that information # 18:17 Alphi the biggest problem is one of trust # 18:18 Alphi i'm going to ignore your trackback because I don't trust your data as being useful and n spam # 18:18 Alphi thats why most sites don't display their trackbacks any more, they were all spam # 18:19 aaronpk so this seems like a benefit of large networks like google and facebook, because they've established trust to some extent # 18:20 aaronpk seems like a critical problem to solve for the indieweb to work # 18:21 Alphi its certainly not easy :) # 18:21 aaronpk guess that's the problem that the SSL authorities are solving # 18:24 Alphi that means they are who they say they are, which isn't the problem with trackbacks # 18:24 Alphi you are looking for someone to say "i'm a real and trustable person" # 18:24 Alphi or "you and I know somone who will vouch for me" tantek joined the channel
# 18:42 Alphi i'm interested in doing something like pgp key signing to establish the trust for the trackback # 18:44 Alphi i haven't seen that, I'll have to check it out # 18:45 Alphi my ultimate site would be a self-hosted 'facebook' where you Friend someone using PGP # 18:46 Alphi ...but hide it from the user # 18:47 shaners Alphi: "self hosted facebook" sounds a lot like the diaspora goals, have you looked into that? # 18:58 Alphi yeah, I've looked at it, but its not really what I'm going for # 18:58 Alphi its not distributed enough # 18:58 Alphi its not designed from the ground up for everyone to host # 18:59 Alphi it has that capability now, but it needs to be more core # 18:59 Alphi their big point was to host your own facebook # 18:59 Alphi not everyone host your own facebook # 18:59 Alphi they have a federation model now, but the last time I looked at it it was pretty rough danbri joined the channel
# 19:12 Alphi tantek: it doesn't look like Salmon deals with spam at all though, right? # 19:12 Alphi wouldn't it suffer from the same problems as trackback, just with a fancier publishing model? # 19:13 Alphi oh wait, I'm seeing something now # 19:13 tantek it might - it hasn't been sufficiently implemented to find out :/ # 19:14 tantek supposedly the use of OAuth in the protocol forces some level of authentication (so you know *who* you are getting the comments/slaps from is actually who they say they are) # 19:14 tantek aaronpk - Diaspora is small-group focused - not indieweb focused # 19:15 tantek as in, one person would setup a diaspora seed for their family to all use on the same server # 19:15 tantek rather than everyone host their own (indieweb) # 19:15 tantek it's a different (yet still admirable) focus, just not indieweb # 19:15 aaronpk I haven't been keeping up with it recently, but I thought last year the goal was to have everyone hosting their own site with federation between them? quartzjer joined the channel
# 19:15 tantek well that's what Max wants, but he got out vote by the other 3 # 19:18 aaronpk that explains some of my confusion around diaspora recently then :) gazoombo joined the channel
# 20:06 tantek aaronpk yeah that was gone a while ago I think # 20:07 tantek is there any way to enable Ctrl-E = Edit on the wiki? # 20:07 tantek <li id="ca-edit" ><a href="/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit">Edit</a> </li> # 20:08 tantek <li id="ca-edit" ><a href="/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit" accesskey="e">Edit</a> </li> # 20:08 tantek all that stuff has got to be template generated # 20:08 tantek so there must be a way to make it generate the accesskey="e" for the edit link danbri joined the channel
# 20:15 aaronpk tantek: yep, looks like the skin I'm using didn't include the MediaWiki code to set the access keys, should be able to add it # 20:20 danbri tantek, ... do you mean that indieweb means one software installation per person? (vs diaspora sharing an installation eg. per family) # 20:20 danbri or is the key distinction re namespace/domain granularity # 20:20 danbri so one installation might serve a dozen family members, but each using their personal domain? indiewebcamp-vis and tantek joined the channel
# 21:21 tantek danbri - indieweb per indiewebcamp.com definition # 21:22 tantek if you're sharing the installation - you don't control your data # 21:22 tantek fairly isomorphic to the hosted service problem # 21:23 tantek because if you don't own/control the domain, then once again, you don't control the permalinks # 21:23 danbri i'd hope diaspora would eventually allow personal domains, or v small group domains... # 21:24 tantek danbri - I'm going to optimistically claim that Diaspora does allow personal domains and that it's a matter of configuring it. I'm not an expert on Diaspora though - however that's my understanding from talking with Max. # 21:24 danbri agrees on importance of going back to lots of domains # 21:25 tantek and the "matter of configuring" is mostly because it's not designed for personal domains # 21:26 tantek well the Diaspora kids are young and fearless and that can count for a lot - plus they're energetic optimists - so they deserve encouragement. # 21:31 tantek btw - http://webchat.freenode.net/ is quite decent - and seemingly essential when using a Virgin Mobile MiFi - because attempting to directly connect via Colloquy (Mac or iOS) results in: an error message: "*** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server" # 21:32 tantek of course good luck finding documentation on how to "identify via SASL" # 21:40 tantek hmm - looks like the Colloquy for iOS has a SASL option - trying that now... tantek-ipod joined the channel
# 21:42 tantek-ipod Interesting - that seems to work. tantek_ and dbounds joined the channel
# 22:14 tantek edited /IRC (+877) "first draft of troubleshooting "need to identify via SASL to use this server"" (
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# 22:15 tantek_ also, aaronpk - any idea why we don't get the little mini Edit buttons next to all the headings the way Wikipedia and microformats.org/wiki has? tantek joined the channel
# 23:07 tantek edited /IRC (+93) "/* need to identify via SASL to use this server */ link to blog post of someone who got it working via doing their own build" (
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# 23:08 tantek aaronpk, you said "IndieWeb needs our own version of +1 and Like" - do you have a user scenario flow that shows what you mean by that? # 23:09 tantek like just a set of sketches of who does what on what site and what each site involved does/shows at each step? # 23:10 tantek I guess what I'm saying is, I want the IndieWeb version of +1 and Like as well - but because we haven't defined a user-flow - that might mean something different to me than to you. # 23:12 aaronpk so I'll ahve to think about what exactly the use case is aside from that # 23:14 tantek even though people use each of them for the other # 23:15 tantek hence why it's important to specify a specific use-case, and then ask how are people solving it today # 23:17 tantek btw - I also think that the right way to figure out the IndieWeb version of something is to first try building something on your own site that uses whatever exists (e.g. Twitter's tweet buttons) to figure out the UI/UX issues (which are paramount IMHO) # 23:17 tantek and once you understand the user-flow from an existing working personal partial indieweb scenario # 23:17 tantek then attempt to abstract up from that to a more generic indieweb-to-indieweb scenario # 23:18 tantek because I don't have much confidence in attempting to diagram a user-flow in the abstract, without starting from a concrete *working* *real-world* example # 23:25 tantek I started doing that - trying to build in some Twitter Web Intents support - and then realized it was a UI/UX first and foremost # 23:26 tantek - then tried to write-up / blog what I had explored and realized that even explaining the term/phrase "web intents" just completely sucked # 23:26 tantek and then started gathering UI/UX examples of what people might be referring to as "web intents" in an effort to come up with a more understandable phrase tantek joined the channel
Loqi [http://twitter.com/toddbarnard] Reading @marcoarment's 'Own your identity' http://t.co/Yx4tyqB @marshallk op. cit. #indieweb
Alphi where would we store the Likes?
aaronpk sure it is! how am I going to trust that https://example.com is really who they say they are? I'm going to ask someone I trust to verify it.
tantek btw - http://webchat.freenode.net/ is quite decent - and seemingly essential when using a Virgin Mobile MiFi - because attempting to directly connect via Colloquy (Mac or iOS) results in: an error message: "*** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server"