#indiewebcamp 2012-07-03

2012-07-03 UTC
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tantek.com
edited /2012/Notes (+1752) "braindump a few notes"
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tantek.com
edited /2012/Notes (+60) "add them to an index etherpad"
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tantek
donpdonp - did the wiki collision discourage you? promise not to touch http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/Guest_List for a few minutes ;)
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donpdonp
tantek: heh yeah but i'll add myself. i swear.
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tantek
btw who was it yesterday that said they knew Haskell?
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tantek
"pandoc" is the tool that needs some hacking
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tantek
myopenid.com is down again
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tantek
time to explore using phpMyOpenID
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Wraithan
myopenid.com is run by janrain right?
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brennannovak
tantek: I believe it was Brian Brennan, the dude from Brooklyn
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Wraithan
brennannovak: he went offline right after saying 'time to explore...'
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brennannovak
oh shoot
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brennannovak
thnks
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Wraithan
np
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brennannovak
peace y'all
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tantek
thanks brennannovak wraithan - I do try to check the logs ( indiewebcamp.com/irc )
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aaronpk
pretty neat that this IRC channel has been around for a year and a half already!
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aaronpk
tantek: I just realized that your permalinks for your text updates appear to not be automatically generated. do you create those when you post an update?
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aaronpk
example: http://tantek.com/2012/182/t2/mobileme-gallery-idisk-iweb-plazes-indieweb-ownyourdata -> "PSA: LAST DAY to download MobileMe Gallery iDisk iWeb data (especially private!) and Plazes•com #indieweb #ownyourdata"
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tantek
oh you mean the slug part
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tantek
those are semi-automatic
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tantek
they're a subset of the non-stop-words in the note
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tantek
biased towards including the #hashtags
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tantek
and yes, I hand edit them down to what you see
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aaronpk
so you did write some code to find those words to use in the slug?
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tantek
no that's on the task list
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tantek
pretty sure it could do an even more intelligent job
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tantek
the words are in the same order they are in the note
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aaronpk
there seem to be quite a few lists of stop words available
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tantek
exactly
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tantek
it should be a pretty easy cassis function to write
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tantek
do you have a favorite list of stop words?
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aaronpk
no, I haven't looked around much yet
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aaronpk
I did build up my own list for cybersanta tho
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aaronpk
but it was very use-case-specific
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tantek
I'd almost want a service to just feed all my posts into and have it spit back a word histogram
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tantek
I'm totally ok with a hard-coded list of personal stop words
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aaronpk
and hashtags would have a larger weight than other words?
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toolness.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+623) "/* Creators */ added me"
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tantek
nicely done
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aaronpk
thx! this is coming along nicely actually! using jekyll
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aaronpk
I will also end up with XML feeds of 1) all content 2) blog posts 3) status updates 4) checkins, all of which I can publish using pubsubhubbub
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aaronpk
I'm also excited to add all the microformats 1&2 markup to this content after I get a little farther with it
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tantek
sweetness all around!
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tantek
also - amazing photos from IndieWebCamp
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tantek
that eye-fi is truly nifty
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aaronpk
it's really handy!!
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aaronpk
it's the only thing that's kept me posting photos at any sort of regular intervals
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aaronpk
tantek: in the source of your updates, do you reference "@aaronpk" and your site converts to twitter.com/aaronpk, or do you reference twitter.com/aaronpk and convert to @aaronpk?
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tantek
my autolinker turns @aaronpk into a hyperlinked version
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tantek
the autolinker is in cassis.js
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aaronpk
ah, ok
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tantek
btw - add indieweb, indiewebcamp2012, mozparty, mozparty2012 to the photos!
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tantek
(tags)
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tantek
we never did iterate the use-cases of why your (everyone's) indieweb site should allow others to log-in to it.
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tantek
1. show more detailed hCard to white-listed logged in users (e.g. phone number, home address)
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tantek
2. show limited-access posts (e.g. geolocation checkins)
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tantek
3. allow comments (perhaps again when in a white-list)
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tantek
4. allow tagging (perhaps anyone? or a whitelist) of posted items (as pointed out by aaronpk here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/7492244882/in/photostream/ )
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tantek
5. allow minor edits to posts, e.g. to fix typos, grammar errors (again per a white-list) - check for % of change, or # of characters changed as a threshold.
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tantek
6. allow major edits (an even smaller white-list)
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tantek
7. allow posting new posts on behalf of (an even smaller white-list), e.g. something you might have an assistant do for you
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tantek
(without having to give *your* password/identity/full-access to)
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tantek
8. allow *deleting* posts (maybe only white-listed to your attorney?)
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tantek
those are all I've come up with so far
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tantek
ok that's probably enough to capture on a wiki page, but perhaps in the morning.
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aaronpk
that's a good list
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tantek
aaronpk - thanks again for so many amazing photos.
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tantek
any way we can enable image embeds on indiewebcamp without having to re-upload to indiewebcamp.com?
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tantek
(e.g. on microformats.org, a simple URL to a jpg/png will auto-embed the image)
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aaronpk
yes that would be good. If it doesn't allow already, I will investigate. I believe mediawiki lets you just put a URL?
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tantek
yes, and even hyperlink images like this: [URL http://example.org/foo.jpg]
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tantek
I'm not sure of which mediawiki configuration we set up to do that
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aaronpk
I should be able to find it pretty quick
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tantek
we've capture some info here on the microformats.org set-up: http://microformats.org/wiki/mediawiki
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Loqi
yea!
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aaronpk
works!
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tantek
yeah!
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tantek
so you just set that $wg… = true in LocalSettings.php?
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tantek
thanks! updated microformats mediawiki customization docs accordingly :)
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tantek.com
created /Classof2012 (+261) "stub"
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tantek
yea it works!
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tantek
time to add the rest of the awesome photos in approximate time sequence order to: http://indiewebcamp.com/Classof2012 (I made a day 1 and a day 2 section, which could be further subdivided)
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tantek
just like a yearbook page :)
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tantek.com
edited /Classof2012 (+345) "subsections"
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tantek.com
edited /Classof2012 (-48) "smaller top photo to fit next to ToC"
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tantek
ok that's enough from me for tonight - check out AaronPK's awesome photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/tags/indiewebcamp2012/ and add them accordingly by time sequence to the http://indiewebcamp.com/Classof2012 page!
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tantek
night night!
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aaronpk
goodnight!
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Loqi
sweet dreams
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jancborchardt
tantek: no I’m not on Flickr
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@superfeedr
@aral You could also hijack the user's action at the browser level with an app. This was our @indiewebcamp project. More soon! cc @voxpelli
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aaronpk
I'm trying to set up PuSH on my site, but I need someone to subscribe to the feed in order for app engine to accept the posts. Are there any test implementations of PuSH subscribers so I don't have to set one up myself?
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tantek
aaronpk - even more than test - anyone on status.net can subscribe to any PuSH feed
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tantek
here I have an identi.ca account - what's your PuSH URL?
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singpolyma
status.net/identi.ca and rstat.us are the two good public ones, yeah. Though you can use the pubsubhubbub.appspot.com test subscriber also if you like
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aaronpk
singpolyma: what's the "test subscriber"? all I can find is a form that makes the subscribe request, but requires me to handle all the postbacks and such
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tantek
aaronpk - what URL would you like me to subscribe to?
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singpolyma
aaronpk: oh, possibly. I always just use identi.ca or rstat.us, I just knew they had a link for "test subscriber" that they link to
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aaronpk
tantek: it's just a scratch feed, i'm going to delete it in a few minutes. if identica can subscribe to it that'll be easiest for me to test with
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singpolyma
yeah, it can
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tantek
it can - you log in, and then on the right column there's a [+] Remote button
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tantek
click that
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tantek
and it will drop down a text box to enter the URL
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aaronpk
swee that's perfect
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aaronpk
I just enter the atom URL and it'll find the hub?
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aaronpk
weird, it says "Sorry, we could not reach that address. Please make sure that the OStatus address is like nickname@example.com or http://example.net/nickname"
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aaronpk
doesn't let me enter tantek's atom URL either
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tantek
aaronpk - atom URL? what are you doing with the invisible web?
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aaronpk
oh, hmm
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aaronpk
that works
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tantek
always prefer visible HTML serving URLs
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tantek
the other stuff is for lazy programmers ;)
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aaronpk
so for my test one, I need to make an HTML page that links to the atom feed which then references the hub?
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singpolyma
sometimes they seem to require that, yeah
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tantek
aaronpk - see my <head> - note the rel hub
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aaronpk
ok i'll just mirror that format
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singpolyma
tantek: I don' think implementations actually support the rel hub in your <head>, though
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tantek
singpolyma - statusnet does
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tantek
that's how hub discovery works
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singpolyma
really? they added support for that?
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singpolyma
interesting
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aaronpk
I would have assumed it found the hub from the <link> tag in the xml file
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singpolyma
What topic URI do they associate with that, then, though? your main page is just HTML, and I'm pretty sure they don't accept PSHB hAtom yet
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tantek
my main page has hAtom, and links to a rel alternate of Atom
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tantek
the point is to get away from depending on Atom / XML
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tantek
welcome mime
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aaronpk
hrm, when I add the <author> tag to my xml file statusnet says it can't find the web page anymore...
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tantek
is tempted to update his blog to microformats 2 version of hAtom (h-entry) and then make a feature request to parse that instead of Atom
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tantek
(to statusnet)
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tantek
(and superfeedr while we're at it)
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aaronpk
i'm getting close to being able to do that with my new site
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aaronpk
(publish h-entry and other microformats)
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tantek
aw he left already
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singpolyma
I've thought about adding hAtom support to rstat.us, but haven't got that far yet
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jancborchardt
aaronpk: tantek there’s a typo on the front page: »The third annual IndieWebCamp will be June 22 through July 23, 2013, « (Not sure which date is correct though)
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tantek
singpolyma - do you have any existing microformats parsers?
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* When */ typo"
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tantek
jan - I had it right in the <time> element - only the prose was in error :D
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singpolyma
tantek: I have the hAtom parser I use for my personal aggregator (I use hAtom as the intermediate and storage format so that I can consume many feed formats but process it all with the same code)
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tantek
oh sweet
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tantek
would be interested to hear how hard it is to upgrade that to support microformats 2.0
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tantek
and/or if there's any key details missing from http://ufs.cc/w/uf2
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singpolyma
may not be latest, but latest published: https://github.com/singpolyma/aggregator
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singpolyma
I won't imagine it'd be too hard, though I'd rather stick with hAtom :)
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aaronpk
tantek: I couldn't find anything explaining what the single-letter prefixes mean
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aaronpk
or about the motivation behind them
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tantek
oh *those* 1-letter prefixes :D
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aaronpk
h-card, p-url
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tantek
anyone have or know a good URL for PuSH 0.4
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aaronpk
woot just got pubsub set up on this feed! proof of concept complete!
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Loqi
woot
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tantek
nice!
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tantek
for more on uf2 prefixes (and thoughts behind) see: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-prefixes
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aaronpk
aha there it is
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tantek
shane (@veganstraightedge) mentioned this weekend that he had a slightly different set of post-type short-code 1-letter prefixes from mine ( http://ttk.me/w/Whistle#design ) - but I can't find his on the web - anyone know of them?
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aaronpk
I think he mentioned it was only written in a file on his computer
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aaronpk
I would love to see his list as wel tho
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tantek
I'm considering collapsing my 'v' into my 'a' (audio -> audiovideo), and then re-purposing 'v' for "venue".
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aaronpk
that seems reasonable
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tantek
I haven't posted / implemented 'a' nor 'v' yet in Falcon
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tantek
and I have a feeling I may get to implementing v / venue first
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tantek
(and post many more of them, if we actually get indieweb checkins to work)
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tantek
btw - just as Evan, Julien, donpdonp et al developed their open people search service, I can see wanting/needing/using an open venue search service as well
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aaronpk
open venue search is a great idea
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tantek
interestin
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tantek
i'd use "name" instead of "title"
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tantek
storing the slug explicitly is interesting
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aaronpk
there are various reasons for those items to be there because of the way jekyll works
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tantek
I guess I store it as part of the permalink
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aaronpk
the HTML that's actually generated is quite different and can be much more flexible
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tantek
and I would substructure the address
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aaronpk
the slug allows me to reference that page from the checkin pages
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tantek
street-address, locality, region, country-name (from vCard/hCard)
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aaronpk
good idea, i'll do that with the address
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tantek
odd - my slugs are optional
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tantek
leaving them off of URLs still works
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aaronpk
well if I make a venue page for Geoloqi HQ, I need to be able to reference that venue from a checkin
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aaronpk
so the checkin says "venue: geoloqi-hq" which is the page's slug
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tantek
shane wanted to use 'x' for venue (x marks the spot), but I think 'v' for venue is better, and the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the temporal playback aspect of both audio and video made them similar enough in presentation/UI to collapse.
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tantek
aaronpk - I'm going to just use create/publish date, as I do for all my other post types for URL referencing
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tantek
4sq uses a venue-id
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tantek
but I think that's unnecessary when you can generate them on the fly from date information
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aaronpk
so what would your URL be for Geoloqi HQ?
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tantek
short url? probably something like ttk.me/v/XXX1 where XXX was the date I first created (possibly checked into) the venue, and 1 assuming it was the first venue I created that day.
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aaronpk
that's fine, but then how would you refernce it from a checkin? It just seems like a named identifier would be easier to deal with in the source files
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tantek
reference it? by URL of course
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aaronpk
long or short?
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tantek
i'd use the *name* of the venue for display purposes though
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tantek
probably short, though I may opt for tantek.com/v/XXX1 rather than ttk.me, space permitting.
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aaronpk
One of the downsides of using Jekyll or other static site generators is that you kind of lose the concept of ids vs names in permalinks, like I can't really have a page have both the URL aaronparecki.com/venue/XXX1 and aaronparecki.com/venue/XXX1/geoloqi-hq
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tantek
oh that sucks
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tantek
well, i'd say drop the slug then - since that takes creative effort to uniquify
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aaronpk
well I do want the readable slugs in the URLs since it's more human-friendly and also more search-engine friendly
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tantek
sure, that's why I do them too
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tantek
however, priorities, auto-generated has bigger benefits
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aaronpk
actually now that I think about it, I could probably create a RewriteRule to handle that assuming all my IDs were in the same format
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mkowens
I still haven't had anyone be able to sell me on the idea of a static site generator.
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aaronpk
mkowens: the major benefit I see is that it has very low requirements for hosting the content
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aaronpk
the only other thing that comes close in terms of ease of deploying is PHP
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mkowens
I guess, but I feel like the vast majority of hosting is really cheap.
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aaronpk
it's not about cheap, it's about how easily it'll break
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aaronpk
and how easy it is to move to other hosting providers
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mkowens
I guess.
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tantek
yes, maintainability is #1, portability is #2.
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tantek
and not having to install extra crap is probably #3
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tantek
ok, I've updated http://tantek.com/w/Whistle#design accordingly - 'a' is now for audio and video, and 'v' is for venu
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tantek
venue
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aaronpk
I don't like the idea of running an "app" which powers my essentially unchanging website content
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tantek
aaronpk - falcon is one file, falcon.php, for rendering my permalinks and index pages
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aaronpk
yea exactly, that's much better
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aaronpk
vs a framework like codeigniter (php) or rails/sinatra (ruby)
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tantek
yeah - I have no interest in a big pile of files to maintain
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tantek
it's got to be super-simple for rendering
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tantek
so people's sites can "just work" even if any/all authoring infrastructure is down
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tantek
ideally, ftp one file and have it work
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tantek
though some mods to .htaccess may be needed (I needed to make some)
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tantek
FYI: barnabywalters, veganstraightedge (in case these get picked up by Google alerts monitoring our IRC archives) - I've updated my Whistle short-codes: http://tantek.com/w/Whistle#design - 'a' is now for audio and video, and 'v' is for venue
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aaronpk
example: Eran sent me the oauth.net site since I took over hosting it. From the moment I said "ok I'll host it" it took about 8 minutes to receive a .zip file of the site, unpack it on my server, set up the vhost, and it was running
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tantek
btw - aaronpk - how hard it would it be to setup an Atom feed of the IRC archives of the last like 255 utterances on here or something, and then ping a hub with them?
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aaronpk
it's basically just a bunch of php files with some <?php include() ?> lines for grabbing headers
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aaronpk
tantek: I was actually just thinking about that!!
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mkowens
Yeah. I mean, that's what I use for mowens.com
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mkowens
I wrote a very basic PHP framework to throw it up on a shared hosting. I could copy/paste that folder to any Apache/PHP server and it'd be fine.
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aaronpk
I think a lot of the motivation behind Jekyll and others is that Ruby/Python don't give you trivial options for hosting like PHP does
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mkowens
See, that I get.
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tantek
wonders if there are any existing PuSH-enabled IRC archives
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mkowens
The right tool for the right job, in my mind. PHP, while not what I would choose to build a robust web application, is perfect for small, rarely-changing websites.
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aaronpk
well crap, now I'm re-considering this whole jekyll thing and need to investigate a simple PHP site again
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tantek
ok, time for brunch
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mkowens
Have a good one
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aaronpk
one of these days I'm going to pick a framework and finish my damn site
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tantek
hey - just skip the framework step ;)
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tantek
or feel free to use/add to cassis.js :D
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aaronpk
well by framework I mean jekyll vs php files
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tantek
php can run cassis.js
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tantek
ok - off to brunch bbiab
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aaronpk
"environment" is a better word in that case than "framework"
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aaronpk
I can't figure out why statusnet won't accept this: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/logs (atom feed is http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/feed.atom)
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aaronpk
tantek: wb. You should be able to subscribe to this in statusnet: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/logs but I seem to be having trouble getting it to recognize it as a valid feed
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aaronpk
well if somebody would be so kind as to subscribe to this feed using the app engine hub, then they should start pulling it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/logs
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benatkin
I really like IndieAuth :)
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benatkin
I have a small project that it's perfect for
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brennannovak
tantek: just bought my ticket to dConstruct2012, let's make this IndieWebCampUK happen
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tantek
awesome!
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tantek
ok, time to add something to the events page to start gathering interest/ideas
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brennannovak
tantek: Yes! Did you get my DM about this eve?
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tantek
I did - and replied
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brennannovak
tantek: dah, twitter fail
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tantek
oh really?
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brennannovak
tantek: yah i didn't get any of my notifications
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@ErnestSpencer
2012/Twitter Tools for Publishers - IndieWebCamp: 2012/Twitter Tools for Publishers. https://etherpad.mozilla.or... http://t.co/5DnK4yWs
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brennannovak
food would be good, have you ever been to Prasad? Or have anywhere in mind?
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brennannovak
tantek: --^
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tantek
I had no particular evening food plans
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tantek
are the Geoloqi kids up for it too?
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tantek
maybe they have suggestions
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brennannovak
ah aaronpk: said he may be up for hackage, not sure if he's interested in dinner, Aaron?
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^
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brennannovak
tantek: aaronpk: i've been meaning to hit up the new Bamboo sushi on NW 23rd and BlueHour has a good happy hour
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tantek
oh nice! what time is the happy hour?
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brennannovak
4:00 to 6:00
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@themsgboy
If you are a loyal #igoogle user, you should give us a shot: http://t.co/lWsLwPln
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tantek
anyone know how @themsgboy is related to #indieweb since they hashtagged it?
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brennannovak
tantek: nah, never heard of them
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tantek
aaronpk - consider omitting the "<email>" elements - they're optional, and making up fake email addresses is more harmful than helpful
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tantek
also, it seems like you're running the irc text through some sort of text-munger before putting it into the feed
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tantek
i.e. you have escaped hyperlink markup around URLs - when we're not typing any such thing into the irc
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tantek
also there's stuff like this:
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tantek
"there&acirc;��s"
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tantek
(now that should be fun in the feed)
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tantek
somehow my plain single quote ' in there's is being auto-smartened - when it shouldn't be - the feed should just reflect the plain text that is coming from IRC
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tantek
oh I see - for turning things into entities - you have to use numeric entities for it be valid XML
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tantek
named entities other than the standard 4 (amp lt gt quot) only work in HTML
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tantek
finally, I think it is more semantically correct to use <content> elements for the utterances rather than <summary>, because you're putting the entire contents in the feed, not summaries.
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^
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brennannovak
tantek: wanna meet up at Blue Hour at 5:30 ?
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tantek
Blue Hour? is that different from Bamboo?
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tantek
which one has the happy hour?
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tantek
and what kind of food does Blue Hour have?
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brennannovak
Oh, shoot sorry if that was confusing. Happy Hour is at BlueHour till 6- it's like standard upscale fare http://www.bluehouronline.com/menus/happyhour_menu.pdf