#indiewebcamp 2013-01-19

2013-01-19 UTC
brennannovak, danbri, morrocco_mole, josephboyle, wajiii-afk, tantek, indiewebcamp-vis, andreypopp and rachelwente joined the channel
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tommorris tantek: you may enjoy this - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5083930
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tantek nice one tommmorris
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tommorris I'm thinking of informally speccing out some kind of ISO 8601 + vagueness thing for some more niche use cases I've run across.
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tommorris or perhaps leaving it all the hell alone and just bitching in comments. ;-)
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tantek feel free to add more real world examples to the research here: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Time
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tommorris should probably add a link to that from the Hacker News comment
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tantek I'm basically done with programmers insisting on storage of abstract values rather than what users (humans) have actually entered/committed. Too many programmers don't understand that their "automatic" conversions tend to be more lossy than they think - e.g. lose the information of how much precision was intended (as your comment points out).
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tantek Store the data directly collected from humans (or sensors). Period. Full stop. Don't convert it to some other units you think make more sense for your stupid database.
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tommorris indeed. the whole debacle with Wikidata and historic currency values.
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tantek heh
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tantek Ironically, the time zone comment is telling - the *best* place to do conversions is at the *last* possible moment. E.g. at presentation time. No sooner.
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tommorris if the source says that it cost 5 million francs in 1860, don't convert it to 2013 US dollars and store that...
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tantek heh
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tommorris regarding date-times, the only date-time library I've found that gets even vaguely close to handling the complexity of date-times as we use them is Natty, a Java natural language date time parser
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tommorris http://natty.joestelmach.com/
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tommorris it has an online testing mode too that shows you how it parses and understands what you've typed in.
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tantek tommorris, I have a question about "… in the media" sections on Wikipedia pages - is there a good guide for how to write them, what kind of images are ok to upload etc.?
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tantek e.g. sections like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborgs_in_fiction#Film
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@tobiaspeggs “@johnbattelle: Federated Media Now Has Greater Ad Reach Than Yahoo, Microsoft, AOL http://t.co/H4pmK6B7” Congrats @wtknapp et al! #indieweb
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tommorris tantek: not sure, will have a look
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tommorris tantek: I'd say http://enwp.org/WP:LISTN and http://enwp.org/MOS:SAL are worth reading
spinnerin and barnabywalters joined the channel
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tantek tommorris - do you have any experience with openannotation.org/spec/core/ and/or how it is any different than any other past RDF attempt to annotate the planet (and thus isn't doomed to all the metacrap fails we're familiar with?) ?
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tantek yeah - the lists thing is a bit of a red herring - I was thinking of just starting with one "Portrayal in Film" example for a particular article - and I was wondering if there are any guidelines specifically for that
rachelwente joined the channel
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tommorris tantek: so, just make sure there are sources. ;-)
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tommorris I haven't looked at openannotation but probably ought to
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tantek it's the basis of this designer-y silo that's popped up: http://hypothes.is/
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tantek well, it's more vaporware right now (here are our principles, goals, etc.) but there you have it - the page looks pretty
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tommorris yeah, I heard about hypothes.is a while back
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tommorris it's probably a more up-to-date version of Annotea
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tommorris there's been some interest in the RDF world in some sort of open, distributed version of something like Google's old Sidewiki project
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tantek I don't see how any of that is sustainable and won't just rot like efforts before it.
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rachelwente (sorry to interrupt) I am having trouble with http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:UserLogin for http://rachelwente.com
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barnabywalters rachelwente: aaronpk is the person to ask about indieauth problems
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barnabywalters what is the error message/problem you’re getting?
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rachelwente Perfect. Thanks. I read through a month of logs last night and saw some similar problems….
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rachelwente Flickr, twitter, facebook - no valid auth (I've since removed them from my links as I was troubleshooting.
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rachelwente GitHub - invalid credentials
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rachelwente Google - internal server error
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barnabywalters rachelwente: yeah, it’s a bit experimental at the moment. I’ve found twitter to be the most reliable
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rachelwente Geolqi - redirect error
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barnabywalters are you linking back to your own site from these profiles?
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rachelwente Yep.
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rachelwente I started with Twitter.
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rachelwente Realized I'm one of those that gets my profile url t.co'ed.
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rachelwente (From an earlier log.)
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barnabywalters oh, I didn’t realise that happened :(
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rachelwente I also tried using one of my dev sites. (My rachelwente one is squarespace. I thought that might be an issue. But even my standalone sites are encountering same issues.)
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rachelwente No worries. I'll ping aaronpk.
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rachelwente I thought figuring it out might be one of the challenges for entry. :)
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tommorris rachelwente: have you got an OpenID you could fall back on?
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barnabywalters liking the rotating photo background gallery btw, and welcome to #indiewebcamp :)
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rachelwente I do. Haven't used it in a while. (And it's still vidoop, so I know I need to find new host.)
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rachelwente (thanks)
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barnabywalters I can’t remember if indieauth.com works with openID anymore. It was making things unreliable and I can’t remember if aaron found a more solid library or not
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tommorris I found that Twitter worked best for indieauth
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rachelwente Do you know if I can un t.co my URL in my profile? I searched a bit last night and didn't see any hacks.
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rachelwente I was able to actually get grant access prompts with google and github, but both came back with errors. Twitter didn't even get that far.
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barnabywalters rachelwente: well, you could try changing it and changing it back, but I’m not optimistic that would do anything
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rachelwente Great minds. Tried that yesterday afternoon.
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rachelwente (sorry, didn't thread that)
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rachelwente thanks for the input everyone… I'm going to tackle it again service-by-service on a different site tonight. I'll keep a log and share with aaronpk. Happy Saturday.
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barnabywalters rachelwente: good luck, hope it works out :)
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ - looks like lots of problems with indieauth's OAuth handling of various providers
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tantek I know aaronpk was looking into problems with Github auth the other night that Phae had.
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tantek rachelwente - I saw the rel-me link you had on your home page: <a href="http://geoloqi.com/rwentechaney" rel="me">geo</a>
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tantek I didn't realize Geoloqi had Oauth support (and thus IndieAuth) - though it makes sense - does that actually work Aaronpk?
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rachelwente tantek yes. It's the one I ended with when I hit the wall last night.
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rachelwente I don't have the skill to debug the auth part, but can make a detailed path for aaronpk. I'll grab snips for each service and try each browser, too.
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barnabywalters rachelwente: I know tommorris had some problems at IWCUK due to using FF aurora
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rachelwente Before that, though, I have a little boy with his skis on, looking at me expectantly. I'll send more info tonight, once we return. cheers….
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rachelwente and thanks again for all the advice.
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tommorris barnabywalters: yeah, I had problems with Github. Twitter has been fine for me. ;-)
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barnabywalters tommorris: twitter has always been the most reliable for me too, but my profile URI isn’t tco'ed
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barnabywalters now I am scared to ever change it in case they hide it behind their nasty shortener ;)
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tommorris openstreetmap do oauth. that'd be a nice thing to have. ;-)
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tommorris sadly, not sure if they linkback
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barnabywalters tommorris: see https://indieauth.com/#faq-how-to-be-added-to-supported-providers for how to get a new provider added
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tantek barnabywalters - rel-me-auth is supposed to follow redirects
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tantek my guess is that the indieauth code that's doing rel-me parsing/retrieving is failing to follow a redirect and then match on the redirect rather than the link in the page
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barnabywalters tantek: I know, but a) it is clearly not at the moment, and b) I don’t particularly like t.co
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barnabywalters looks in the source
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tantek is the indieauth code on github where we could inspect it and see if we could figure that out?
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barnabywalters tantek: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth
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tantek tommorris, barnabywalters - perhaps file issues against the github repo? (have to run for now)
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tantek documenting the problems with using github.com, and what rachelwente said about using geoloqi.com too? and the twitter t.co issue as well.
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barnabywalters okay, by the looks of https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/blob/master/lib/relparser.rb#L89 indieauth is just parsing for URLs which look similar, not actually resolving rel=me URLs
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tantek let's at least capture these issues there - even if we can't find the code solutions immediately
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tantek barnabywalters - would be great if you could file those as github issues. much appreciated!
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barnabywalters tantek: doing
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tommorris barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 3 karma
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tantek barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 4 karma
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barnabywalters created issues https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/7 https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/8 https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/9
spinnerin, andreypopp, eschnou and tantek joined the channel