#indiewebcamp 2013-01-23

2013-01-23 UTC
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ianloic tantek, I sat in on a really interesting training on GPS the other day. Even moving as fast as a speeding bullet you should be able to compensate for the doppler effect..
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tantek ianloic, indeed, GPS itself (the radio protocols) you can, however, mobile devices aren't engineered to be that responsive with GPS.
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tommorris yeah, I have a proper GPS I use for OpenStreetMap. it gets accuracy of <4m when my Android phone is giving me 15-20m accuracy.
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tantek welcome Stevef!
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Stevef hello
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Stevef just watching for the mo...
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tantek Stevef, you may be interested in http://indiewebcamp.com/Semantics_Of_Article-Note_Distinction
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tantek a good article that tommorris started to start to capture some of these distinctions
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tantek I'm curious - who here allows comments on their posts on their site, and how do you mark them up?
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Stevef thanks will read
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tantek great - hope to see you around here regularly Stevef
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Stevef got the channel open at startup so probably will :-) but now i gotta go an collect my kids
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tantek sounds good - have a nice night!
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tantek thought folks might find this interesting - various brainstorming on how a pinterest "post" should be marked up: http://html5doctor.com/html5-simplequiz-7-pinterest/
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tommorris tantek: I've thought about comments, but I'm not wild about dealing with spam
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tantek lots of challenges there, from post-type semantics, to WebActions, to stats about the item etc.
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tantek tommorris - we've had no spam on indiewebcamp.com - perhaps you could simply require indieauth.com logins for comments ;)
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tommorris not a bad plan
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tantek also helps promote indie-identity of course
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scor sorry, arriving late to the party
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scor tommorris: tantek: "I've thought about comments, but I'm not wild about dealing with spam" <-- where is that presented/discussed?
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tommorris scor: nowhere, just in my head. ;-)
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scor has an interest in fighting spam in comments
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tantek hi scor - a lot of what's been discussed has been around white-listing commenters, e.g. via a blogroll or via twitter followings.
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tantek also potentially allowing 2nd degree, e.g. everyone who's in a blogroll of someone in my blogroll
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tantek or everyone who is followed by someone I am following
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tantek (on Twitter, or any other asymmetric follow network)
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tantek probably worth starting and indiewebcamp wiki article on this
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ianloic I wonder if you could round-trip comments through a third-party spam checking service, for example gmail
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ianloic and train it there
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tantek notes that there's a /notes article but not a /articles article, nor a /comments article. ripe for the starting, tommorris ;)
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tantek ianloic - worse than spam are trolls.
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tantek the trust networks I mentioned would minimize both
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ianloic tantek, as a troll I resent that!
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tantek if not eliminate
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ianloic trust networks are hard.
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tantek ianloic - not really, only in the SemWeb sense are they hard, because they misdefined "trust"
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ianloic advogato was originally an experiment in trust networks for Raph Levien's PhD research
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tantek faceted trust (e.g. for comments) is easy
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barnabywalters ianloic: but XFN is easy, if time consuming to follow
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tommorris tantek: bit busy dealing with a 'pedia issue.
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ianloic I want comments from strangers, but comments from strangers who don't suck.
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tommorris tantek: also, misdefined trust? I think what the semweb trust folk are working on is more fact-provenance-tracing.
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ianloic unrelated: is there good self-hosted wiki software I should use? Or should I just run mediawiki with a less awful theme?
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tantek tommorris - np - good luck.
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tommorris mediawiki is the least awful wiki software out there. which is saying something, because it's pretty awful in lots of ways.
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tantek ianloic - either mediawiki or federatedwiki
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barnabywalters I envision a service where I can say: here is the URL containing my XFN network, here’s the URL of the person who wants to leave a comment, tell if they’re within n degrees of separation
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tantek if you haven't seen federatedwiki - go check out Ward's demo (plenty of videos online I think)
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tantek barnabywalters - Google's Social Graph API used to be able to do pretty close to that
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ianloic fed.wiki.org?
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tantek that sounds right
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barnabywalters tantek: by the number of complaints when it shut down, it did a lot of good stuff! I never got to play with it
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tantek yeah
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tantek comments might be a good use for PESOS actually
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tantek e.g. using some silo as a "neutral zone" of sorts, where strangers can comment, and then you manually whitelist them as they show themselves to be trustworthy, and then your blog/site only PESOS in the comments from those on the whitelist
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tantek currently I'm using G+ for comments in this regard (haven't yet built the part where I stream the good ones back into my site)
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tantek G+ seems like a decent comment silo
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tommorris my problem with comments is that it is a negative disincentive to joining some kind of decentralized system.
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tommorris I don't want you to post a comment to my site, I want you to get your own site and post it there and I'll link back to it.
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barnabywalters tommorris: agreed, hence work on pingback and own-your-comments extension
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tommorris indeed.
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tommorris building comments and then maintaining them seems a waste of time when we could be building something that serves the same function as comments that doesn't suck.
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tantek tommorris - agreed. however, if you required indieauth sign-in for people to comment, then you would be nudging them along the path of getting their own site to post stuff on.
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tantek so perhaps that's a good compromise.
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barnabywalters small steps :)
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ianloic own-your-comments is the right long-term approach
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barnabywalters you could even do something stupid like have a character counter on the comment box, and if it goes over a certain number (say, 10) pop up a dialog saying “hey, that’s a decent comment — you should probably post that on your own website”
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tommorris most people I know seem to just use Twitter to respond.
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tantek barnabywalters, tommoris - do both
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ianloic barnabywalters, implement a blogger API comment to implement that? :)
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tantek have a comment box on your site with a character counter that simply posts on Twitter for them in reply to your post.
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ianloic if only twitter had an API to give me all the comments that reference my URL...
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barnabywalters …and mark it up with some classname so that people with own-your-comments enabled get it redirected to their personal site
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tantek ianloic, if you POSSE out your posts to Twitter, then you can make sure that the "comments" that people post on twitter are in-reply-to the Tweet ID of the copy of your post on Twitter.
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tantek and Twitter *does* have an API for getting all the @-replies in response to a particular status ID.
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ianloic tantek, oh right.... that would totally work. Presumably I can do the same for facebook, right?
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barnabywalters tantek: what, related_results?
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tommorris also, Topsy.
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tantek plus that also encourages better threading etc. of the view on Twitter itself, since there will be others who may reply to your tweet directly on Twitter.
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tantek and thus they'll get interleaved with the folks coming from the comment box on your site.
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tantek in fact, that might be a good fallback for those who can't setup IndieAuth in order to comment "natively" on your site.
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tantek so two choices, sign-in with indieauth to comment here (without 140 char limit), or sign-in with Twitter to post a comment via an @-reply which may or may not get reverse syndicated into the indieweb post on the site itself.
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tantek so that's actually 3
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tantek 1. is what barnaby/tommorris mentioned. comment on your own site, then pingback to the original post.
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tantek 2. sign-in with indieauth and leave a comment on the site itself
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tantek 3. sign-in with Twitter and post an @-reply on Twitter in response to the twitter copy of the current post (limited to 140 chars minus @-reference, may or may not get reverse syndicated back on the post permalink page itself).
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tantek ok since no one here actually *has* comments on their own site (correct me if I'm wrong), who is *posting* comments on their own site in response to posts elsewhere on the web and using pingback etc.? barnaby?
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tantek (scenario 1 above)
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tommorris tantek: I'm commenting on my own site, mostly in response to Barnaby. Not sending pingbacks yet. It's on my to-build list.
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barnabywalters tantek: all my twitter replies are notes, and on a couple of occasions I’ve POSSEd comments elsewhere, linking back to a note on my site in-reply-to the URL I’m commenting on
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barnabywalters finds example
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barnabywalters here’s one: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/736/
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tantek barnabywalters - that's fascinating and awesome!
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tantek did that work automatically? or did you manually POSSE your comment out to http://threads2.scripting.com/2012/december/theEasyStuffShouldBeEas#comment-745698589
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tantek and if you did it automatically, what API(s) did you use to POSSE it out to http://threads2.scripting.com?
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barnabywalters tantek: not automatic, although it will be soon with my own-your-comments cross-browser extension
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tantek bbiab
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tantek oh - that's disqus - just noticed
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tantek does disqus have an API for posting comments like that?
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barnabywalters wow, 32 members — is that an #indiewebcamp record?! Great to see lots of new (to me at least) faces over the past few days
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ianloic federated wiki looks really cool, but I find the implementation choices distasteful. I'm probably just a bigot.
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@BarnabyWalters @JovianSalak oh cool! @briansuda gave me some similar ones after #indiewebcamp in Sept. I really need to start… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/869/
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