#indiewebcamp 2013-03-14

2013-03-14 UTC
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tantek Google Reader shutting down: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-second-spring-of-cleaning.html
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tantek another step backwards in support for reading from the distributed web
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tantek (vs. silos)
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@Nadreck Regarding the Google Reader shutdown: This is why we need better #IndieWeb solutions, across the board.
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@AskedRelic Well, I have written a client for reading feeds, why not write my own feed service #ownYourData
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@zakkain @poritsky Digital homesteading is a huge interest of mine as of late. Do you know about http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page
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aaronpk WHAT? noooo! that is terrible news
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aaronpk although this seems to be a promising alternative http://newsblur.com/
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@tabatkins @CrowChick W3Conf had a decent one, and IndieWebCamp.
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tommorris wait, Google Reader shutting down? but it's fucking useful
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tantek http://gigaom.com/2013/03/13/chris-wetherll-google-reader/
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tommorris tantek: if only there were a self-hostable version. ;)
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tommorris.org created /Other_efforts (+319) "creating list" (view diff)
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@tomhenrich Migrated the feeds I actually read from Google Reader into a self-hosted solution:
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tantek Tommorris - are "other efforts" really worth a separate page, or rather, why separate them from projects - we have this section there currently: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#other
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tommorris tantek: not sure. probably ought to be merged.
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tantek Cybe appears to be a silo at cybe.me
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tantek with a ton of rhetoric
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tommorris Yeah. I snarked about it a bit on my blog. Because I'm an awful human being.
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tommorris http://tommorris.org/posts/8144
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tommorris "Microsoft Bob in the Cloud" was my description ;)
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tantek.com edited /projects (+237) "/* other */ add Diaspora in Other section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /silo (+153) "Other Silos, cybe" (view diff)
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tantek there's nothing decentralized about Cybe
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tantek it's all based on subdomains at cybe.me
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tantek for pay!
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tommorris ah. they spammed me with flattering email a while back. I hadn't looked into it much.
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tantek.com edited /Other_efforts (-291) "merged into projects, except cybe which got added to silos" (view diff)
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tantek hey aaronpk - why does the wiki add "?redirect=" in the URL when redirects happen (sometimes)?
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tantek it's screwing up fragment references
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tommorris I think that's so that the wiki can show the little (redirected from Y) thing underneath the title.
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tommorris depending on how mediawiki is setup, you can suppress the passing of those around
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tommorris they are useful on WP in my experience because sometimes you want to be able to get back to the redirect page to, say, delete it, or point it elsewhere
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tantek.com edited /projects (+234) "/* other */ may still be able to learn" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - no other mediawiki I've seen does that in the URL and yet still shows the (redirected from Y) thing underneath the title (e.g. wikipedia, microformats.org)
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tommorris yeah, 'tis a bit strange. probably worth documenting on-wiki at a wiki quirks page
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tommorris speaking of, I was going to suggest setting up autoconfirmed on microformats.org to prevent main page spam and spam to the 'core' format pages like hCard
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tommorris given quite a few people probably end up reading the core microformat specs, might be an idea to make them the equivalent of Wikipedia "semi-protected"
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tantek yeah
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tommorris just means you have to have had an account open for N days
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tommorris someone with access to LocalSettings.php needs to set it up.
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tommorris I should probably put this on the wiki. ;)
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tantek something you can add here? http://microformats.org/wiki/admin-to-do#wiki
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Loqi yea
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tantek lol
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tommorris done
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tommorris right, back to some work people actually pay me for
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aaronpk tantek: it's an HTTP redirect plugin which actually sends a 301 redirect instead of serving the page from multiple URLs
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aaronpk I can take out the "redirected=XXX" part easily
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tantek that would be great
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aaronpk try now
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tantek as that's messing up some wiki redirects (ironically)
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tantek fixed!
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tantek :)
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aaronpk sweet
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tantek aaronpk - now how about those CSS template tweaks? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/ ;)
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aaronpk that works pretty well!
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aaronpk thanks for the super detailed notes!!
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tantek yay thanks so much aaronpk!
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tantek this will allow much narrower IndieWebCamp wiki windows on my 11" air :)
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aaronpk ah excellent
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tommorris someone referred to my 11" MBA as "girly" recently. my response is that he obviously considers back pain to be manly.
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aaronpk that is the correct response
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aaronpk also that's bizarre, i've never heard that the entire time i've had my 11" air
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tantek tommorris - how odd
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aaronpk everybody who sees me with it at a coffee shop asks how I like it, and I say it's been my main computer for almost 2 years and they're always blown away
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tommorris Indeed. But then most of the time, I'm running terminal full screen or MacVim full screen or a browser full screen. ;)
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tantek tommorris - also: http://www.corporate-aliens.com/quotes/getquote.php?Yoda&quoteid=380 (ssory about the Flash)
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tommorris Truth.
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tommorris and just as we are singing the praises of 11" MBAs, work turn up with my 15" MBP
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tantek.com edited /Why_web_sign-in (+39) "/* But a domain is a big investment */ g" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WebFinger (+97) "note general problems with email addresses as identifiers" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WebFinger (+63) "ISODate, and provide URL citation to IRC discussion" (view diff)
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barnabywalters and agreed with tommorris — my first thought was “this is like MS Bob, or VRML, or something. not a new idea”
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aaronpk he mentioned me on twitter asking for feedback... i haven't replied yet cause I was travline
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I wasn’t really sure what to say :/
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aaronpk yea me either...
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aaronpk that manifesto of his seems very... manifesto-ey
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barnabywalters lol
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barnabywalters ha, just seen, if you give them $10,000 they name a day of the year after you. that is somewhat creepy
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barnabywalters cybe reminds me a little of this gem of weirdness I found last month: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/pangaia/index.php?title=Main_Page
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barnabywalters I am still not sure whether or not is is serious
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aaronpk whoa, yea really
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tantek I tend to view such things as "performance art"
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tantek kind of like modern James Joyce
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aaronpk performance art! lololol
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barnabywalters hah
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tantek.com edited /silo (+98) "dying silos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+12) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Posterous (+235) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /posterous (+23) "r" (view diff)
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@t On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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@infty_ RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters interesting use of square brackets there tantek — I’d be interested to know reasoning behind that microsyntax
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@BarnabyWalters “I am not a number, I am my domain name” — @t eloquently summarises #indieweb thinking in On Silos vs an Open Socia… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1114/
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@elieuw RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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aaronpk tantek: what's the significance of the square brackets around the hashtag?
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tantek aaronpk - a nod to email list customs of using [tag] in the subject lines
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tantek since it's in the name of my blog post
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tantek blog post name/title ~ email list subject
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@davidmead RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk great post!
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aaronpk how long did that take to write, out of curiosity?
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@EdgarsLabRat [moz] Tantek Çelik: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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aaronpk oh nice, another square bracket keyword lol
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tantek aaronpk - about 3-4 hours in a row with a few interruptions.
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aaronpk great, that's about my average too
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tantek oh cool - good to know I'm not too slow ;)
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tantek also it happened to touch on *a lot* of things on my mind currently
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aaronpk i usually write fewer words as well
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tantek and links I'd recently visited
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tantek so it was timely
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barnabywalters yeah, I think 3-4 hours is my average too
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aaronpk amber says she usually spends 3-4 hours per post as well
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barnabywalters reminds me: I need to install a note posting authoring timer in #taproot
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barnabywalters that would give me a metric to improve on through UI improvements
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barnabywalters characters per second
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aaronpk lol, i hate metrics like that
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tantek yeah - fewer characters is often better, and it often takes longer to edit them down accordingly!
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tantek bad metric!
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tantek so is my blog post merely preaching to the converted, or do you think we might see some new folks show up here in the channel?
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barnabywalters tantek: speaking as one of the converted, I have no idea. But hopefully
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@toddbarnard RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters well, maybe characters per second isn’t a good metric to aim for. But speeding up common tasks through web actions and autosuggest is no bad thing
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@caseybecking Tantek Çelik: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] - http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web #mozilla #mozillians @mozilla
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tantek.com edited /posts (+124) "/* Posts about the IndieWeb */ On Silos vs an Open Social Web #indieweb" (view diff)
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aaronpk I've been making slow progress on IndieNews btw, we'll have a great repository of indieweb-related posts soon!
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barnabywalters oh wow aaronpk — so what actually is it?
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tantek brb
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aaronpk barnabywalters: it looks kinda like hackernews, in that it has posts and upvote buttons
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aaronpk but you submit stories by creating a link on your post to news.indiewebcamp.com then sending a pingback or webmention
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barnabywalters nice!
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aaronpk so you can only submit stories you wrote yourself, since you need the link to news.indiewebcamp.com to be there
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aaronpk which is an intentional limitation, since one of the goals is to encourage use of webmention
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@_pius Important piece. RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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tantek that's a clever setup aaronpk
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barnabywalters sounds great, looking forward to seeing/using it
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tantek realizes his blog post turned out longer than he expected, wonders if people will actually read anything that long any more.
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tantek seems like my reply-posts always end up longer than my original topic posts
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tantek hopefully the headings help break things up a bit
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aaronpk the headings are really helpful
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@planetmozilla Tantek Çelik: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters RE replies being longer than topic posts — that is really interesting.
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tantek barnabywalters - I added you to that branch in case you want to add a link to commentary of your own :)
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tantek since non-originators can only add one person, you'll have to add the next indieweb person
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tantek I tried adding you aaronpk but it wanted to tweet an @-mention (rather than DM you) so I canceled. I'm assuming that didn't work.
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tantek you may need to sign-in to branch for it to be able to DM you
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tantek not sure how the permissions work
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aaronpk oh! how'd you get it to DM barnaby?
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aaronpk I tried adding some people to branch the other day and it @-mentioned everyone without telling me it was going to do that :(
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barnabywalters tantek: thanks :) aaronpk, do you want me to add you?
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tantek I don't know, it by default offered to DM barnaby
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aaronpk barnabywalters: I may be able to write a response this weekend, don't have time today tho
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barnabywalters presumably branch detected that we follow each other and therefore could DM
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah, I have nothing right now either — just ping me if you do want to be added :)
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tantek but aaronpk and I follow each other also and it didn't give me that option
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barnabywalters yeah, that is weird
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@cstanhope RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters although the point about stealing UI did remind me I need to document reusing UI for the indieweb and wider purposes
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barnabywalters e.g. I used cardDAV to manage my contacts so I could use address book and not have to write a CRUD UI
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tantek huh, apparently someone deemed my post worthy of posting to Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5377534
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tantek (I can never tell if that's good or irrelevant)
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aaronpk that's good
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aaronpk i still think there's some value in hackernews
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aaronpk there's actually a surprising number of people there who post stuff from their own indieweb sites
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aaronpk huh, look at the latest thing this guy submitted! https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=_pius
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barnabywalters yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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@kevinmarks RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters finally getting somewhere with document.getSelection. Select -> quote web action UI coming soon!
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npdoty.name edited /IRC (+185) "/* need to identify via SASL */ still a problem" (view diff)
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tantek fascinating
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tantek sounds like someone new who got stuck trying to get into the IRC channel!
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barnabywalters that is really weird, I am using colloquy and have never had any problems
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barnabywalters or on iOS for that matter
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barnabywalters ah, by the looks of it, it’s to do with using tethered/MiFi style internet connections
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aaronpk nice, just got a pingback from http://benwerd.com/2013/03/14/silos-the-open-web-and-selfdogfooding/
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tantek aaronpk - a pingback to what post?
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tommorris ooh, a new tantek longpost. I needed something to read on the train
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benwerd wakes up
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benwerd to selfdogfood
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benwerd I assume
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tommorris "our UX sucked" - my UX can suck as much as I can tolerate (and, boy, it does suck). but I'm the only person who has to use it.
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tommorris but the flipside: if the UX sucks, I can fix it.
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aaronpk tantek: to http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood, because your quote that's in that post linked to it!
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tantek tommorris - you're the only who has to use the *posting* UX, however all your readers have to use the *reading* UX on your site.
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tantek so that's worthy making nicer
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tantek (in fact I spend way more time on the "viewing" UX of Falcon than on the posting UX - which decidely is quite incomplete / sucky)
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benwerd (unless you make it easy for them to syndicate the content somewhere else and read it in their own UI, potentially?)
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tantek aaronpk - that's awesome!
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tantek any chance we can get a feed of pingbacks to indiewebcamp.com to show up in this channel?
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tantek (assuming you're somehow spam filtering them ;) )
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tantek aaronpk, I'd like to start collecting examples of "this post is also syndicated on…" sections in our posts as UI/UX examples
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tantek so far I think only you and Barnaby do it automatically
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tantek I've added an "Elsewhere" section by hand to my recent post
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tantek this feels like a post building block
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tantek.com edited /elsewhere (+69) "more kinds of elsewhere" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /posts (+65) "See also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /elsewhere (-6) "posts-elsewhere sounds better" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /identity-elsewhere (+369) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /posts-elsewhere (+1351) "stub with a few examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /building-blocks (+156) "/* Building Blocks */ posts!" (view diff)
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tantek it's fascinating how aaronpk, barnabywalters, and I ended up with very different ways of presenting "this post elsewhere".