#indiewebcamp 2013-03-15

2013-03-15 UTC
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mohitgupta.me
edited /2013/Guest_List (+558) "/* Creators */"
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@benatkin
On Silos vs an Open Social Web by @t:
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@wiretapped
RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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aaronpk
tantek: did you notice my new sidebar inspired by your old log pages?
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tantek
yes! supercool!
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tantek
I need to bring back my sidebar on posts like that.
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bretolius
What do people here recomend as a replacement for google reader?
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bretolius
i have been playing with fever reader, but its kind sucks in a lot of ways
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aaronpk
a lot of people have been talking about NewsBlur
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aaronpk
I haven't tried it myself yet
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bretolius
the website wasnt loading for me earlier today
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bretolius
:/ after boingboing posted about it
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bretolius
I want something that can combat truncated rss feeds, but does not rely on a 3rd party such as http://fulltextrssfeed.com/ or a readability api
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aaronpk
that's an interesting problem
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bretolius
and preferably a self hosted web-app
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bretolius
or at least something that lends itself to be run continuosly on a server
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bretolius
oh snap, can news blur be installed locally?
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aaronpk
didn't even notice that
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bretolius
it does not look like it lends itself to easy self hosting
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@ant0ine
RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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npdoty.name
edited /2013/Guest_List (+624) "/* Creators */ npdoty would like to attend, pending travel arrangements"
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@ehafen
@thomaSchulz @avantgame @DatenundGesundh Agree and generating more siloed data. #ownyourdata
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@ehafen
@techreview: New Disease Registry Puts Patients in Control http://t.co/B3dxDVd8nA” @DatenundGesundh @NasriNahas #ownyourdata
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@tommorris
Some indieweb reading matter: Tantek on silos vs. an open social web. And a response from Ben Werdmuller. I have ... http://tommorris.org/posts/8145
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@BarnabyWalters
That excellent post of @t’s, like all well–hyperlinked documents, lead me to a whole raft of great #indieweb res… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1123/
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@fantasticlife
RT @tommorris: Some indieweb reading matter: Tantek on silos vs. an open social web. And a response from Ben Werdmuller. I have ... http ...
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@BarnabyWalters
Those last two notes posted using latest Web Action Hero Toolbelt, now with select-to-quote UI #webactions #indieweb… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1127/
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@tomhenrich
Do you run any self-hosted web services rather than their third-party equivalents? i.e. @OpenPhoto rather than @Flickr? #ownyourdata
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@diffalot
On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] http://userspace.io/?p=335
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aaronpk
yes, loqi will tell us these things in the future, just don't have the plumbing set up right yet
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Loqi
woot!
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@xtof_fr
Lecture post #indieweb par @t http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web concernant les silos vs web social ouvert + belle réponse de @benwerd...
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@ade_oshineye
This would be a great time to be running/promoting a realtimeconf or indieweb conference. Suddenly everybody's interested again.
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@indiewebcamp
RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters
hey eschnou
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barnabywalters
does the storytlr posting UI support text autofilling via query string params (a la twitters intents)?
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eschnou
barnabywalters, good question :-) I don't recall, let me have a look
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eschnou
barnabywalters, there is something similar indeed which I used for a 'bookmarklet' which auto fills the url, title, and 'body' if you have secected text in the page, so yes, this could be used to autofill from other sources
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barnabywalters
eschnou: oh cool, so you’ve already done a more specific version of what I’m working on at the moment
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barnabywalters
that’s great to hear, I’ll add storytlr to my list of publishing software with webaction–usable URL APIs
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eschnou
well, I'm not sure what you mean by webactionusable URL :-) But if I should add/modify something to expose that 'mehod', just let me know !
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barnabywalters
if you’ve documented the query string params somewhere I could link to that — if not, is it just ?url &title= &body?
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eschnou
hmm, it seems the params are u,t and s.. I was lazy back in the days :-) But happy to re-factor, upgrade this.
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barnabywalters
cool, thanks
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barnabywalters
okay, documented in the web action toolbelt guide: http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/web-action-toolbelt-guide/
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Web_Action_URL_APIs (+205) "/* Web */ Added Storytlr API documentation"
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tommorris
off to hack day tomorrow to work on publicly-released Environment Agency data. hoping I can do some openstreetmap-improving, checkin-improving stuff with it.
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barnabywalters
tommorris: nice! is this the dataset you blogged about?
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eschnou
barnabywalters, watching the video.. really cool :-)
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barnabywalters
eschnou: thanks, I’ve just been making some minor UI improvements so it’s a little shinier now :)
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barnabywalters
it would be really cool to see <action> elements in storytlr!
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barnabywalters
I’ve rolled them out to my notes, with twitter intent links as feedback
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barnabywalters
I might add a do=subscribe one on my homepage, wrapping a subToMe button and twitter follow button
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barnabywalters
yay fallback
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tommorris
barnabywalters: not sure I blogged about it. I was having a poke at some of the data as geodata is notoriously painful to deal with in large quantities
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barnabywalters
tommorris: oh, I thought it might have been the one with the nasty opaque numeric type IDs
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tommorris
Canals data.
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tommorris
I might play with the beach data.
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@igorwesome
RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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eschnou
barnabywalters, only URL so far ? you could look at how I implemented fetching the title and selected content in javascript for my bookmarklet
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barnabywalters
eschnou: the minimal information sent over the wire is on purpose, but I’d be interested to see your bookmark — code link?
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barnabywalters
my fork of aaronpk’s indieweb-reply extension was the prototype for the web action toolbelt — it could send quite a bit more information, but at the same time was much more complex
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barnabywalters
and generalising button customisation was tricky
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barnabywalters
the idea of just providing url is that the receiving server/post UI can then request the page and parse it in whatever way it wants
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barnabywalters
e.g. autodetect twitter page and autofill all @names in a multi-user reply, for EG
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barnabywalters
or parse microformats on the target URL and present the user with D&D author, link preview and the like
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eschnou
barnabywalters, make sense indeed. In our case, selecting text in the page and pre-filling it in the body saves you one copy-paste if you want to quote something :-)
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barnabywalters
eschnou: absolutely, *but* that is not all that is possible. For example, I automatically wrap the quoted HTML in <blockquote>, and the URL in an <a> element, with “source” for the text
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barnabywalters
that is all done *through the service URL*
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barnabywalters
so it’s not very readable (yet) but super-flexible
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barnabywalters
thanks, I’ll have a look at your bookmarkley
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barnabywalters
eschnou: liking the bookmarklet, I’m going to adapt that for my own site so I can do selection -> new note on my iPad (grr no extensions on iOS)
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barnabywalters
I was thinking of maybe auto-generating a bookmarklet for any web action I’ve configured in the extension
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eschnou
barnabywalters, I've installed the extension, and configured storytlr, where can I try it ?
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barnabywalters
eschnou: any of my individual note pages have post, bookmark and reply verbs on
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eschnou
barnabywalters, yup, nice idea, works as a fallback for any web page
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eschnou
barnabywalters, hmmm, I think I did everything alright (Chrome, latest pull from your github) and it does not work :-(
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eschnou
how can I debug ?
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barnabywalters
eschnou: I haven’t tested the latest version on chrome, give me a min and I’ll see if it’s going wrong for me too
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eschnou
Error in event handler for 'undefined': Cannot read property 'name' of null TypeError: Cannot read property 'name' of null
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eschnou
:-( I can pastebin the full stacktrace if you want (<- Hmm.. do we also need an #indiebin ? :-)
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barnabywalters
hm, I am getting that too. fixing…
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barnabywalters
okay, sorted it. Pushing…
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barnabywalters
done. should be fine now :)
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barnabywalters
goodnight all
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Loqi
gute nacht!
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@erinjo
@borismus RE RSSS - you should chat w some of the people in #indiewebcamp IRC sometime about content production, syndication, and networks.
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@eschnou
Shared the link: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] - by @t http://eschnou.com/entry/on-silos-vs-an-open-social-web-indieweb---by-t-62-24891.html
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@brianjesse
yess. I've been waiting for somebody to call it an apocalypse #rss #indieweb
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tantek.com
edited /why (+51) "/* Focusing on the Positive */ noting another silo link redirector - YouTube. with 3 examples this phenomenon might deserve its own page."
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tantek.com
edited /why (-7) "/* Focusing on the Positive */ no need to actually hyperlink to youtube's redirector"
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tantek
would it be useful to document real-world anti-patterns on the indiewebcamp wiki?
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tantek
e.g. link-wrapping / link-redirecting
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tantek
(and which of those is the preferred terminology? or are they different?)
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tantek.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (-1) "update counts, resort"
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tantek
nice looking hCard on Nick Doty's home page (one of the recent sign-ups) http://npdoty.name/
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tantek
with a 'key' property even
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tommorris
the Stamen Designs OSM renderings are always pretty too ;)
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tantek
that's a clever idea for a home page background
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tantek
gives immediate context while being visually appealing
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tommorris
oh yeah, tantek, was gonna say in response to your post about using your domain name for contact... representative-hcard type stuff is also useful for wayfinding
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tantek
geo wayfinding?
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tommorris
imagine if you could open up your map application and type in the URL of a company you are visiting and it'd take you to their office
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tantek
oh yeah!
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tantek
or display a set of pins on a map of their location(s) plural
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tommorris
you are in brighton and are visiting adactio. type in clearleft.com into your device and it shows you a map to their location
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tommorris
if I published my phone number, people could "dial" tommorris.org rather than some 11 digit number I can't remember
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aaronpk
why is this not already a thing!
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tommorris
we got slightly close to it with operator
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tommorris
I had Operator hooked up to Skype so when it found a phone number, I could click in the toolbar to dial it in Skype
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aaronpk
+1 for phone number redirects like that
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tantek
so this might be something you could implement right now on a FirefoxOS device actually
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tommorris
and I wrote some JavaScript to hook it up to Mojo, BT's really excellently designed (but sadly cancelled) IP telephony service
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tantek
without having to write your own phone dialer
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tantek
I think there's a "dial phone number" web activity that as an app you can query for and execute
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tommorris
you could send an HTTP request to initiate a call
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tantek
and that the default phone dialing app registers to handle
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tantek
tommorris - you mean a "tel:" request?
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tantek
that should work too
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tommorris
nope. this was different
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tommorris
I hooked it up to Operator back in the day
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tommorris
basically it let you send a request saying {"to": num, "from": num}
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tantek
"dial tommorris.org" -> navigate to tel:abc where abc is the phone number discovered via representative hCard from tommorris.org
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tommorris
and it'd ring from, you pick up, and it'd dial to.
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tantek
then the browser hands tel: off to whatever app handles it
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tommorris
yep, that's probably now doable
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tantek
so domain as discovery for phone number is better than using a phone number directly (since then you're not bound to a particular phone number)
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tantek
however I'd still prefer to have a solution where the domain hosted the receiving of the message somehow instead
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tommorris
it gets even cooler: imagine if you are travelling and have multiple phone numbers (with SIMs for different countries)
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tantek
and then on the backend pushed the message out along whatever realtime update notification channel I happened to be signed into
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tommorris
and you check in.
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tommorris
and your phone number updates on the site based on the country of the last checkin
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tantek
I'd prefer to not have to be dependent on phone number infrastructure for the communications backend
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aaronpk
tantek: isn't that basically what we scoped out with indieweb messaging?
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tantek
aaronpk - yes
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tantek
I'm pitching the case for indieweb messaging over phone numbers as backend
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tommorris
phone numbers are legacy infrastructure. or ought to be. ;)
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tantek
what's even cooler than traveling with multiple SIMs - traveling with zero SIMs
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tantek
right, we should be building systems to bypass them completely
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tantek
rather than just being backward compat
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tantek
the only reason to build backward compat with phone numbers is to be able to dial/txt out to those stuck with just numbers (rather than domains with indieweb messaging)
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tantek
similar to what Apple did with iMessage
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tommorris
the .tel section of http://tommorris.org/posts/2629 has some ideas from 2011 which are somewhat pertinent
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tantek
if both parties are on iMessage, the phone network never sees the txts
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tommorris
O2 in the UK have done something similar called TU Go, which routes phone data over IP via wifi
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tommorris
which is useful as I live in a coverage deadspot
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tantek
if the iMessage server is unable to deliver to an iMessage recipient, the device falls back to sending a phone system txt
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aaronpk
tantek: I do like iMessage when it works. but when it fails it causes more problems than it solves
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aaronpk
it's not a problem if you only have one phone number and use that phone number for your imessage identity, but multiple devices (ipad, computer, two phones with different phone numbers) signing in to the same imessage account gets super confused
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tantek
aaronpk - I've heard anecdotes about iMessage not working well if you're signed into it on multiple devices
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tantek
like it decides apparently at random which device receives messages, rather than all signed-in devices (the only sensible default).
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aaronpk
yea i've definitely experienced that
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aaronpk
today in fact. missed a message for 20 minutes because it popped up on my ipad, even though i was looking at my computer and my phone was next to me
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aaronpk
the weird thing is the message was synced to all my devices, just didn't show an alert
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tantek
oh so it was in the list of active conversations, but just didn't push a notification to all?
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tantek
perhaps this is an issue with the notification/alerts/push API rather than messages itself.
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aaronpk
yes, exactly
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tantek
so far I only use iMessage on one device (at a time)
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tantek
clearly they've optimized for that use case
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tantek
tommorris, aaronpk, I just verified that clicking on a tel: link on Firefox on Android or on FirefoxOS's browser app will automatically take you to the "dialer" app with the phone number prefilled in. all you have to do is click the green phone/dial button to initiate the call.
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aaronpk
cool. same thing on iphone.
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tommorris
thanks for verifying
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aaronpk
I wonder if an HTTP redirect to a tel: URL works
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aaronpk
call.aaronparecki.com -> HTTP redirect tel:15035678642
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tantek
aaronpk I just tried that and it just redirects to aaronpareck.com
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tantek
er aaronparecki.com
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tantek
was that a hypothetical or did you actually setup that redirect?
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tantek
related - I just filed a bug for "callto:" support as well https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851717
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tommorris
is just attempting to process the news that people have actually changed their career plans after reading a blog post he wrote.
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tommorris
All this publishing-one's-thoughts-on-the-web stuff would be so much easier if people didn't read and act on them.
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@julienduprat
On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web via @t
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aaronpk
hypothetical :)
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tantek
darn - here I thought you'd already deployed it and wanted me to test it ;)
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tantek
tommorris - no pressure. keep speaking your mind. ;)