#indiewebcamp 2013-03-15

2013-03-15 UTC
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mohitgupta.me edited /2013/Guest_List (+558) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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@benatkin On Silos vs an Open Social Web by @t:
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@wiretapped RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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aaronpk tantek: did you notice my new sidebar inspired by your old log pages?
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tantek yes! supercool!
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tantek I need to bring back my sidebar on posts like that.
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bretolius What do people here recomend as a replacement for google reader?
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bretolius i have been playing with fever reader, but its kind sucks in a lot of ways
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aaronpk a lot of people have been talking about NewsBlur
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aaronpk I haven't tried it myself yet
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aaronpk http://www.newsblur.com/
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bretolius the website wasnt loading for me earlier today
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bretolius :/ after boingboing posted about it
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aaronpk heh
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bretolius I want something that can combat truncated rss feeds, but does not rely on a 3rd party such as http://fulltextrssfeed.com/ or a readability api
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aaronpk that's an interesting problem
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bretolius and preferably a self hosted web-app
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bretolius or at least something that lends itself to be run continuosly on a server
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bretolius oh snap, can news blur be installed locally?
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aaronpk whoa it's open source? https://github.com/samuelclay/NewsBlur
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aaronpk didn't even notice that
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bretolius it does not look like it lends itself to easy self hosting
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@ant0ine RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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npdoty.name edited /2013/Guest_List (+624) "/* Creators */ npdoty would like to attend, pending travel arrangements" (view diff)
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@ehafen @thomaSchulz @avantgame @DatenundGesundh Agree and generating more siloed data. #ownyourdata
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@ehafen “@techreview: New Disease Registry Puts Patients in Control http://t.co/B3dxDVd8nA” @DatenundGesundh @NasriNahas #ownyourdata
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@tommorris Some indieweb reading matter: Tantek on silos vs. an open social web. And a response from Ben Werdmuller. I have ... http://tommorris.org/posts/8145
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@BarnabyWalters That excellent post of @t’s, like all well–hyperlinked documents, lead me to a whole raft of great #indieweb res… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1123/
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@fantasticlife RT @tommorris: Some indieweb reading matter: Tantek on silos vs. an open social web. And a response from Ben Werdmuller. I have ... http ...
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@BarnabyWalters Those last two notes posted using latest Web Action Hero Toolbelt, now with select-to-quote UI #webactions #indieweb… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1127/
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@tomhenrich Do you run any self-hosted web services rather than their third-party equivalents? i.e. @OpenPhoto rather than @Flickr? #ownyourdata
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@diffalot On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] http://userspace.io/?p=335
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aaronpk got a pingback from http://userspace.io/2013/on-silos-vs-an-open-social-web-indieweb/ to http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood and http://indiewebcamp.com/WebFinger
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aaronpk yes, loqi will tell us these things in the future, just don't have the plumbing set up right yet
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Loqi woot!
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@xtof_fr Lecture post #indieweb par @t http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web concernant les silos vs web social ouvert + belle réponse de @benwerd...
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@ade_oshineye This would be a great time to be running/promoting a realtimeconf or indieweb conference. Suddenly everybody's interested again.
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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barnabywalters hey eschnou
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barnabywalters does the storytlr posting UI support text autofilling via query string params (a la twitters intents)?
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eschnou barnabywalters, good question :-) I don't recall, let me have a look
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eschnou barnabywalters, there is something similar indeed which I used for a 'bookmarklet' which auto fills the url, title, and 'body' if you have secected text in the page, so yes, this could be used to autofill from other sources
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barnabywalters eschnou: oh cool, so you’ve already done a more specific version of what I’m working on at the moment
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barnabywalters that’s great to hear, I’ll add storytlr to my list of publishing software with webaction–usable URL APIs
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eschnou well, I'm not sure what you mean by webactionusable URL :-) But if I should add/modify something to expose that 'mehod', just let me know !
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barnabywalters if you’ve documented the query string params somewhere I could link to that — if not, is it just ?url &title= &body?
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barnabywalters eschnou: https://github.com/barnabywalters/web-action-hero-toolbelt
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eschnou hmm, it seems the params are u,t and s.. I was lazy back in the days :-) But happy to re-factor, upgrade this.
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eschnou https://github.com/storytlr/storytlr/blob/master/protected/application/admin/controllers/PostController.php#L43
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barnabywalters cool, thanks
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barnabywalters okay, documented in the web action toolbelt guide: http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/web-action-toolbelt-guide/
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Web_Action_URL_APIs (+205) "/* Web */ Added Storytlr API documentation" (view diff)
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tommorris off to hack day tomorrow to work on publicly-released Environment Agency data. hoping I can do some openstreetmap-improving, checkin-improving stuff with it.
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barnabywalters tommorris: nice! is this the dataset you blogged about?
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eschnou barnabywalters, watching the video.. really cool :-)
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barnabywalters eschnou: thanks, I’ve just been making some minor UI improvements so it’s a little shinier now :)
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barnabywalters it would be really cool to see <action> elements in storytlr!
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barnabywalters I’ve rolled them out to my notes, with twitter intent links as feedback
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barnabywalters I might add a do=subscribe one on my homepage, wrapping a subToMe button and twitter follow button
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barnabywalters yay fallback
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tommorris barnabywalters: not sure I blogged about it. I was having a poke at some of the data as geodata is notoriously painful to deal with in large quantities
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barnabywalters tommorris: oh, I thought it might have been the one with the nasty opaque numeric type IDs
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tommorris Yeah
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tommorris Canals data.
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tommorris I might play with the beach data.
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@igorwesome RT @t: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web
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eschnou barnabywalters, only URL so far ? you could look at how I implemented fetching the title and selected content in javascript for my bookmarklet
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barnabywalters eschnou: the minimal information sent over the wire is on purpose, but I’d be interested to see your bookmark — code link?
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barnabywalters my fork of aaronpk’s indieweb-reply extension was the prototype for the web action toolbelt — it could send quite a bit more information, but at the same time was much more complex
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barnabywalters and generalising button customisation was tricky
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barnabywalters the idea of just providing url is that the receiving server/post UI can then request the page and parse it in whatever way it wants
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barnabywalters e.g. autodetect twitter page and autofill all @names in a multi-user reply, for EG
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barnabywalters or parse microformats on the target URL and present the user with D&D author, link preview and the like
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eschnou barnabywalters, make sense indeed. In our case, selecting text in the page and pre-filling it in the body saves you one copy-paste if you want to quote something :-)
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eschnou barnabywalters, here is the bookmarklet generation: https://github.com/storytlr/storytlr/blob/master/protected/application/admin/views/scripts/bookmarklet/index.phtml
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barnabywalters eschnou: absolutely, *but* that is not all that is possible. For example, I automatically wrap the quoted HTML in <blockquote>, and the URL in an <a> element, with “source” for the text
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barnabywalters that is all done *through the service URL*
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barnabywalters so it’s not very readable (yet) but super-flexible
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barnabywalters thanks, I’ll have a look at your bookmarkley
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barnabywalters *t
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barnabywalters eschnou: liking the bookmarklet, I’m going to adapt that for my own site so I can do selection -> new note on my iPad (grr no extensions on iOS)
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barnabywalters I was thinking of maybe auto-generating a bookmarklet for any web action I’ve configured in the extension
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eschnou barnabywalters, I've installed the extension, and configured storytlr, where can I try it ?
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barnabywalters eschnou: any of my individual note pages have post, bookmark and reply verbs on
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barnabywalters e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1000
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eschnou barnabywalters, yup, nice idea, works as a fallback for any web page
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eschnou barnabywalters, hmmm, I think I did everything alright (Chrome, latest pull from your github) and it does not work :-(
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eschnou how can I debug ?
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barnabywalters eschnou: I haven’t tested the latest version on chrome, give me a min and I’ll see if it’s going wrong for me too
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eschnou Error in event handler for 'undefined': Cannot read property 'name' of null TypeError: Cannot read property 'name' of null
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eschnou :-( I can pastebin the full stacktrace if you want (<- Hmm.. do we also need an #indiebin ? :-)
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barnabywalters hm, I am getting that too. fixing…
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barnabywalters okay, sorted it. Pushing…
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barnabywalters done. should be fine now :)
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi gute nacht!
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@eschnou Shared the link: Web Action Hero Toolbelt #indieweb http://eschnou.com/entry/web-action-hero-toolbelt-indieweb-62-24890.html
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@erinjo @borismus RE RSSS - you should chat w some of the people in #indiewebcamp IRC sometime about content production, syndication, and networks.
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@eschnou Shared the link: On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb] - by @t http://eschnou.com/entry/on-silos-vs-an-open-social-web-indieweb---by-t-62-24891.html
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@brianjesse yess. I've been waiting for somebody to call it an apocalypse #rss #indieweb
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tantek.com edited /why (+51) "/* Focusing on the Positive */ noting another silo link redirector - YouTube. with 3 examples this phenomenon might deserve its own page." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /why (-7) "/* Focusing on the Positive */ no need to actually hyperlink to youtube's redirector" (view diff)
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tantek would it be useful to document real-world anti-patterns on the indiewebcamp wiki?
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tantek e.g. link-wrapping / link-redirecting
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tantek (and which of those is the preferred terminology? or are they different?)
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tantek.com edited /2013/Guest_List (-1) "update counts, resort" (view diff)
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tantek nice looking hCard on Nick Doty's home page (one of the recent sign-ups) http://npdoty.name/
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tantek with a 'key' property even
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tommorris the Stamen Designs OSM renderings are always pretty too ;)
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tantek that's a clever idea for a home page background
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tantek gives immediate context while being visually appealing
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tommorris oh yeah, tantek, was gonna say in response to your post about using your domain name for contact... representative-hcard type stuff is also useful for wayfinding
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tantek geo wayfinding?
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tommorris imagine if you could open up your map application and type in the URL of a company you are visiting and it'd take you to their office
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tantek oh yeah!
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tantek or display a set of pins on a map of their location(s) plural
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tommorris you are in brighton and are visiting adactio. type in clearleft.com into your device and it shows you a map to their location
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tommorris if I published my phone number, people could "dial" tommorris.org rather than some 11 digit number I can't remember
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aaronpk why is this not already a thing!
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tommorris we got slightly close to it with operator
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tommorris I had Operator hooked up to Skype so when it found a phone number, I could click in the toolbar to dial it in Skype
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aaronpk +1 for phone number redirects like that
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tantek so this might be something you could implement right now on a FirefoxOS device actually
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tommorris and I wrote some JavaScript to hook it up to Mojo, BT's really excellently designed (but sadly cancelled) IP telephony service
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tantek without having to write your own phone dialer
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tantek I think there's a "dial phone number" web activity that as an app you can query for and execute
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tommorris you could send an HTTP request to initiate a call
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tantek and that the default phone dialing app registers to handle
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tantek tommorris - you mean a "tel:" request?
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tantek that should work too
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tommorris nope. this was different
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tommorris I hooked it up to Operator back in the day
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tommorris basically it let you send a request saying {"to": num, "from": num}
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tantek "dial tommorris.org" -> navigate to tel:abc where abc is the phone number discovered via representative hCard from tommorris.org
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tommorris and it'd ring from, you pick up, and it'd dial to.
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tantek then the browser hands tel: off to whatever app handles it
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tommorris yep, that's probably now doable
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tantek so domain as discovery for phone number is better than using a phone number directly (since then you're not bound to a particular phone number)
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tantek however I'd still prefer to have a solution where the domain hosted the receiving of the message somehow instead
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tommorris it gets even cooler: imagine if you are travelling and have multiple phone numbers (with SIMs for different countries)
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tantek and then on the backend pushed the message out along whatever realtime update notification channel I happened to be signed into
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tommorris and you check in.
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tommorris and your phone number updates on the site based on the country of the last checkin
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tantek I'd prefer to not have to be dependent on phone number infrastructure for the communications backend
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aaronpk tantek: isn't that basically what we scoped out with indieweb messaging?
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tantek aaronpk - yes
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tantek I'm pitching the case for indieweb messaging over phone numbers as backend
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tommorris phone numbers are legacy infrastructure. or ought to be. ;)
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tantek what's even cooler than traveling with multiple SIMs - traveling with zero SIMs
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tantek right, we should be building systems to bypass them completely
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tantek rather than just being backward compat
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tantek the only reason to build backward compat with phone numbers is to be able to dial/txt out to those stuck with just numbers (rather than domains with indieweb messaging)
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tantek similar to what Apple did with iMessage
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tommorris the .tel section of http://tommorris.org/posts/2629 has some ideas from 2011 which are somewhat pertinent
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tantek if both parties are on iMessage, the phone network never sees the txts
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tommorris O2 in the UK have done something similar called TU Go, which routes phone data over IP via wifi
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tommorris which is useful as I live in a coverage deadspot
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tantek if the iMessage server is unable to deliver to an iMessage recipient, the device falls back to sending a phone system txt
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aaronpk tantek: I do like iMessage when it works. but when it fails it causes more problems than it solves
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aaronpk it's not a problem if you only have one phone number and use that phone number for your imessage identity, but multiple devices (ipad, computer, two phones with different phone numbers) signing in to the same imessage account gets super confused
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tantek aaronpk - I've heard anecdotes about iMessage not working well if you're signed into it on multiple devices
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tantek like it decides apparently at random which device receives messages, rather than all signed-in devices (the only sensible default).
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aaronpk yea i've definitely experienced that
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aaronpk today in fact. missed a message for 20 minutes because it popped up on my ipad, even though i was looking at my computer and my phone was next to me
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aaronpk the weird thing is the message was synced to all my devices, just didn't show an alert
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tantek oh so it was in the list of active conversations, but just didn't push a notification to all?
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tantek perhaps this is an issue with the notification/alerts/push API rather than messages itself.
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aaronpk yes, exactly
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tantek so far I only use iMessage on one device (at a time)
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tantek clearly they've optimized for that use case
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tantek tommorris, aaronpk, I just verified that clicking on a tel: link on Firefox on Android or on FirefoxOS's browser app will automatically take you to the "dialer" app with the phone number prefilled in. all you have to do is click the green phone/dial button to initiate the call.
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aaronpk cool. same thing on iphone.
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tommorris thanks for verifying
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aaronpk I wonder if an HTTP redirect to a tel: URL works
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aaronpk call.aaronparecki.com -> HTTP redirect tel:15035678642
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tantek aaronpk I just tried that and it just redirects to aaronpareck.com
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tantek er aaronparecki.com
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tantek was that a hypothetical or did you actually setup that redirect?
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tantek related - I just filed a bug for "callto:" support as well https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851717
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tommorris is just attempting to process the news that people have actually changed their career plans after reading a blog post he wrote.
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tommorris All this publishing-one's-thoughts-on-the-web stuff would be so much easier if people didn't read and act on them.
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@julienduprat On Silos vs an Open Social Web [#indieweb]: http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web via @t
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aaronpk hypothetical :)
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tantek darn - here I thought you'd already deployed it and wanted me to test it ;)
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tantek tommorris - no pressure. keep speaking your mind. ;)