#indiewebcamp 2013-04-30

2013-04-30 UTC
b0bg0d and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk - my post permalinks now have a proper p-author h-card inside their h-entry's :)
#
aaronpk excellent!
#
tantek !tell barnabywalters - I moved my author icon/name inside my h-entry so you should be able to parse out full post/note information including p-author and h-card with image and name in the alt.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
tantek aaronpk, barnabywalters let me know how it works with your preview/context display code!
#
aaronpk oh! that brings up an interesting question about URLs
#
tantek.com edited /friendly (+54) "see also" (view diff)
#
aaronpk I see you use relative URLs for photo and author url
#
aaronpk so of course that should be relative to the URL i'm parsing
#
tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+53) "see also" (view diff)
#
aaronpk my question is, should an mf2 parser be responsible for expanding those into fully-qualified URLs? my inclination is yes, because it makes the code consuming the parsed data simpler
#
tantek aaronpk - relative to the URL you're parsing yes, consider <base> tags as well
#
tantek yes - it's the mf2 parser's responsibility to expand them to full URLs
#
tantek it's right here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property
#
tantek "if there is a gotten value, return the normalized absolute URL of it, following the containing document's language's rules for resolving relative URLs (e.g. in HTML, use the current URL context as determined by the page, and any preceding <base> elements). "
#
tantek so I guess that'll have to be a test case for the parsers :)
#
aaronpk great! I'm opening an issue on php-mf2
#
tantek nice
#
tantek aaronpk - why do your notes not show an icon: http://aaronparecki.com/notes, but your replies do: http://aaronparecki.com/replies (next to each post) ?
#
aaronpk I thought it would be redundant to have an icon on all my notes, since the page title "notes" implies it's things I've written
#
aaronpk but on the "replies" page, the first bit of text in each reply is someone else's username
#
aaronpk so without my icon, it sometimes looks like it's something they wrote
#
tantek oh ok
#
tantek twitter profiles show your icon next to each note
#
tantek I think so that they can show others' icons when you do retweets
#
aaronpk yea
#
tantek is there a reasonable indieweb notion of a retweet?
#
tantek repost?
#
aaronpk I haven't figured out how I want to do "retweets" yet
#
tantek retumbl?
#
tantek yeah - it's an interesting design issue
#
aaronpk I think there is, but I don't want it in my notes feed
#
tantek really? I think that's the whole point of a retweet
#
dpk some in this channel might be interested: i've created a mirror of the old W3 site that's still in CERN's AFS. http://w3.infologie.co/ is the base, http://w3.infologie.co/www/TheProject.html the homepage. explanation: http://www.w3.org/mid/23B14A3B-B2F1-4DF8-A71E-4977B1AFA715@dpk.io
#
aaronpk well
#
tantek because you want everyone following your notes to see them
#
aaronpk it goes back to my produce vs consume distinction
#
aaronpk i'm considering putting retweets in the same list as favorites and bookmarks
#
tantek then they're not really retweets IMHO
#
tantek they might as well just be bookmarks
#
aaronpk yea that's pretty much true
#
tantek maybe you just don't want retweets in your notes :)
#
tantek which is cool of course
#
aaronpk that might be the case
#
tantek maybe you just want quotation posts (a la Tumblr)
#
aaronpk I've actually been retweeting on twitter less and less
#
tantek where the whole post is a quotation
#
aaronpk that makes more sense to me
#
tantek and it's styled differently
#
tantek I think it's totally a personal preference issue
#
tantek whether you want to do "retweets" or "quotations"
#
tantek it's a personal design / content decision
#
aaronpk also like how we've been talking about pulling in some basic info from URLs like twitter does with the twitter cards, it may just look like that
#
tantek like a link preview
#
aaronpk yes
spinnerin joined the channel
#
tantek cool.
#
tantek well I'm pretty happy with this minor update to Falcon / my site
#
tantek had plenty of room in the left sidebar to put a recognizable icon, and I don't need to put a name explicitly (it's in the image alt)
#
tantek I suppose I could put it in the title too for hover
#
tantek yes that works. ok that's good enough for now. I'll wait to see the issue :)
#
tantek I wonder if there is someway to get github issues on microformats to show up in the microformats irc chanel
#
aaronpk oh yes there is a way
#
aaronpk :) loqi knows
#
tantek :)
#
tantek aaronpk - so basically, with this design update to my notes, I feel like I have a decent building block for expanding to include reply context above my reply notes, or comments below my notes
#
aaronpk aha! great
#
tantek I'll just use smaller images for other folks (maybe 48px), smaller text, and the light gray background
#
tantek those conventions work great
#
tantek and that way it's really obvious what the primary object of the page is
#
tantek ok - off to go shopping for new running shoes
#
tantek this is a good enough incremental improvement for today :)
josephboyle, spinnerin, scor, jalbertbowdenii and tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk !tell tantek I just updated IndieNews to work with comments the way we talked about yesterday! Here are the updated instructions: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/how-to-comment
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
xtof, b0bg0d and tantek joined the channel
#
Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 21 minutes ago: I just updated IndieNews to work with comments the way we talked about yesterday! Here are the updated instructions: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/how-to-comment
#
tantek !tell barnabywalters I noticed you have <a class="u-as-downstream-duplicate u-alternate"> in your posts - consider adding rel=syndication to those links too! E.g. on http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1329/
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
tantek aaronpk - indieauth login to indienews is not working for me: https://indieauth.com/auth?me=&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.indiewebcamp.com%2Findieauth
cweiske, b0bg0d1 and b0bg0d joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk - nm - indieauth is now working for me on indienews :)
tantek, seyz, eschnou and barnabywalters joined the channel
#
Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 8 hours ago: - I moved my author icon/name inside my h-entry so you should be able to parse out full post/note information including p-author and h-card with image and name in the alt.
#
Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 47 minutes ago: I noticed you have <a class="u-as-downstream-duplicate u-alternate"> in your posts - consider adding rel=syndication to those links too! E.g. on http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1329/
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
barnabywalters hm, been meaning to fix that for a while — probably just replace them as they were prototypes of u-syndication
#
tantek right - I remember when we talked this through the first time
#
barnabywalters live now
#
barnabywalters time to fix that relative URL thing too
#
tantek nice
friedcell and xtof joined the channel
#
christopheducamp.com created /friendly-fr (+1800) "[fr : translated from canonical page]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /rel-canonical-fr (+269) "[fr: translation from original/canonical page]" (view diff)
#
tommorris from small beginnings - http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html ;)
#
tommorris http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22249490
#
christopheducamp.com created /h-card-fr (+255) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /Template:indieauth-status-fr (+655) "[fr: Ce modèle a démarré sur [[Template:indieauth-status]] ]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /Template:indieauth-status-fr (+3) "[fr: {{up-fr}}]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /Template:indieauth-status-fr (-1) "typo" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /Template:up-fr (+95) "[fr:translation up=prêt - suggestions welcome]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /Template:down-fr (+101) "[fr: down translated to "hors-service" suggestions welcome]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /Template:unsupported-fr (+205) "[fr: translated unsupported with non-supporté. suggestions welcome. non-soutenu ?]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /App.net (+2) "/* IndieWeb Friendly Components */ <del>two</del> <ins>three</ins> interessing possibilities" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /App.net-fr (+5493) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
barnabywalters joined the channel
#
christopheducamp.com edited /indieauth-fr (+1072) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
bnvk and pfefferle joined the channel
#
christopheducamp.com edited /Getting_Started-fr (+2066) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /Getting_Started-fr (+31) "<span class="rel-canonical">[[Getting Started]]</span> : is that correct ? suggestion welcome." (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /h-entry-fr (+570) "[fr : translated iwc page]" (view diff)
barnabywalters, bnvk, mxuribe and scor joined the channel
#
christopheducamp.com edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-fr (+81) "[fr: sync'd translation + added example app.net]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-fr (-80) "[fr: ''Cette page a démarré sur [[How to set up web sign-in on your own domain]]'' ]" (view diff)
morrocco_mole and eschnou joined the channel
#
tantek tommorris: looks like TheProject has been overlinked - not responding for me.
#
tommorris works fine for me
spinnerin joined the channel
#
tommorris the markup is pretty amazing - https://gist.github.com/tommorris/5489641
#
barnabywalters tommorris: HTML 1 was way ahead of it’s time — they had a <header> element
#
tommorris <NEXTID> is no more, but it still renders (in quirks mode)
#
barnabywalters IIRC in an early version of HTML there was also an <input type=scribble>
#
tommorris and, yes, HEADER, although not the same as HEAD ;)
#
barnabywalters not sure if it was ever implemented
#
tommorris type="scribble" could actually work now that we have touch devices.
#
tommorris "These fields allow the user to scribble with a pointing device (such as a mouse or pen) on top of a predefined image. The image is specified as a URI with the SRC attribute. If the user agent can't display images, or can't provide a means for users to scribble on the image, then the field should be treated as a text field. The VALUE attribute can be used to initialize the text field for these users. It is ignored when the user agent provides scr
#
tommorris http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/input.html
#
barnabywalters I wonder what the use cases were
#
cweiske signatures?
#
barnabywalters cweiske: ah, quite possibly
morrocco_mole joined the channel
#
tommorris barnabywalters: use cases? "hell, that'd be awesome!"
eschnou and caseorganic joined the channel
#
christopheducamp.com edited /discovery-fr (+258) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com created /rel-author-fr (+59) "[fr: sync'd translation - to be translated on uf wiki]" (view diff)
#
christopheducamp.com edited /rel-author-fr (+49) "[fr:''Cette page a démarré sur [[rel-author]]'']" (view diff)
catsup joined the channel
#
@xtof_fr Ch. le mot-magique ds #mediawiki pour "Edit Summary" "Résumé" pour #syndication notes #indieweb http://christopheducamp.com/w/2013-04-30
hadleybeeman_, jancborchardt_, tantek, seyz, eschnou, barnabywalters, jalbertbowdenii and caseorganic joined the channel
#
aaronpk looks like IndieSquare may need to happen sooner rather than later http://www.hasoffers.com/blog/check-check-ins-foursquare-start-selling-data/
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: just launched some major changes to IndieNews! http://news.indiewebcamp.com/submit
#
barnabywalters good afternoon aaronpk
#
aaronpk hello! how is iceland this evening?
#
barnabywalters very good thanks — a little cold, but sunny
#
barnabywalters new stuff in indienews looks good!
#
barnabywalters it’s a perfect demo app for indieauth, webmention and indieweb commenting
#
aaronpk yep!
#
aaronpk my goal is to give people another reason to support those, as well as to have another place for testing as they develop their sites
#
barnabywalters aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 130 karma
#
barnabywalters I just pushed php-mf2 v0.1.11, which solves the relative URL problem
#
aaronpk oh great!!
#
barnabywalters unfortunately it introduces the first dependency, as I didn’t want to reinvent the joining code
#
aaronpk joining?
#
barnabywalters s/joining/resolving
#
Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: unfortunately it introduces the first dependency, as I didn’t want to reinvent the resolving code
#
aaronpk ahh
#
barnabywalters (been living in python for the last few weeks)
#
aaronpk that's ok
#
barnabywalters but works for supplied URL or <base href>
#
aaronpk that's what package managers are for
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: I know, great right? ;)
#
aaronpk oh and here is what I was talking about where you can know the URL on IndieNews before submitting it http://news.indiewebcamp.com/constructing-post-urls
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: so what is the etiquette for submitting posts? e.g. is it okay to write a listener which just submits any post I tag with #indieweb?
#
aaronpk i think that would be fantastic!
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: okay, I’ll do that once I’ve wrapped up a little bug in the php mf2 url resolving
#
aaronpk once a few people start upvoting things, the relevant ones will be towards the top too!
#
barnabywalters (it wasn’t working for implied URLs)
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: idea for the commenting: how about adding an experimental inline web action element I’m working on? which expands into an iframe when activated, for in-context commenting?
#
barnabywalters it’s just <action inline do="reply" with="url" >Fallback instructions</action>
#
aaronpk oh that would be kind of fun
morrocco_mole joined the channel
#
barnabywalters I’m using postMessage, so if the embedded form detects it’s in an iframe, it hides header/footer, and sends a message to the parent window telling it what height to make the iframe
#
aaronpk huh... can the target of a webmention be implied?
#
barnabywalters once more browsers support seamless iframes even the postMessage will not be needed
#
aaronpk shouldn't I be able to just say "hey [webmention endpoint], check out this page!" and it can go find the target by parsing the page
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: you’ve lost me — in what context is this happening?
#
aaronpk say I want to submit this page http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/04/27/1/indieweb
#
aaronpk I shouldn't have to say source=___ and target=____, because that page already has the pointer to the target
#
Loqi it is probable
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
aaronpk trying to think why that would be a bad idea
#
aaronpk anyway, so I should wrap this comment blurb in that action element? https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/blob/master/views/post.php#L12
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: that’d be great, I’d love to try it out
#
barnabywalters IRL
#
aaronpk literally like you typed it? or do I replace "url" with the page URL?
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah, @with should be the URL the action is taking place on
#
aaronpk well this should be interseting
#
aaronpk post some screenshots!
#
aaronpk biab
texburgher joined the channel
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: brilliant! almost there, at the moment it’s giving me a form to comment on the original post, not the indienews entry, but apart from that everything’s in place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgOJ3XLLAaM
#
barnabywalters (no sound)
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: that's correct actually :)
caseorga_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk that came from my discussion with tantek
#
aaronpk in order for IndieNews to be a good indieweb citizen, it should encourage behavior that should exist even if IndieNews didn't exist
#
aaronpk that's why to comment, now you link in-reply-to to the original URL, and syndicate it out to IndieNews just like you syndicate original posts
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: ah, I missed that — brilliant, I’ll add support for that too
#
barnabywalters probably tomorrow — enough programming for one night
#
aaronpk awesome! nice video
#
aaronpk i got your pingback too!
#
barnabywalters ha, youtube is so funny — on a screen recording it’s saying “we found ways to enhance this video’s lighting”
#
barnabywalters what lighting?!
#
aaronpk hahahaha
#
Loqi awesome
#
barnabywalters off for a walk. goodnight all
#
Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
jaquecoustaeau, eschnou, caseorganic and catsup joined the channel
#
@jalbertbowdenii "the not so hidden politics of class online" great read via @zephoria http://www.danah.org/papers/talks/PDF2009.html #indieweb
#
jalbertbowdenii i guess Loqi's a bot, and pulls in specific hashtags...is that open source? where can i read more about Loqi?
#
Loqi is done
ddahl__ joined the channel
#
@gglplay #200円以下のアプリ