#indiewebcamp 2013-05-01

2013-05-01 UTC
scor, xtof, caseorganic, jaquecoustaeau, EdwardHinkle, EdwardHinkle_, tantek, jfranusic, b0bg0d and spinnerin joined the channel
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bret Whoa, cool http://news.indiewebcamp.com/
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EdwardHinkle aaronpk: I was reading about p3k on indiewebcamp. When you have a chance, I had some questions about your git integration
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aaronpk EdwardHinkle: sure thing
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EdwardHinkle aaronpk: You show a UI for writing a note. I assume an article works close to the same way. If so, you have the PHP doing all the middle-man work? (Taking the post, turning it into a markdown file and saving it to a git-backed directory?) Does PHP automate the commit message, or how does that work? More of a broad-view, I'm not asking for a step by step :)
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aaronpk actually I only have a UI for notes
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aaronpk writing an article involves opening a text editor
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aaronpk I do have a script that generates the initial .md file with the proper yaml header for setting the title, slug, date, location, etc
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aaronpk I haven't bothered to write a UI for articles yet because I write much fewer articles compared to notes, and I don't post articles from my phone
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aaronpk on the notes side, the UI submits to a PHP script, which builds up the .md file and commits to git
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EdwardHinkle Oh okay. Makes sense. Thanks :) I'm looking into the various paths everyone's taking and trying to figure out what I want to do for my site. Since you use a text editor for articles, I'm assuming the PHP builds its list just based on scanning the directory?
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aaronpk yea exactly
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EdwardHinkle Cool! Thanks
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aaronpk the directory scan, and reading the files are cached in memcache
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EdwardHinkle ohh, that's smart.
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tantek aaronpk, with the shutdown of Upcoming, I wonder if it's time to figure out indievents
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tantek events.indiewebcamp.com
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tantek similar to indienews in interaction - you post an event by syndicating it from your own site
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tantek comments, upvotes etc.
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tantek except with the addition of event-specific verbs
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tantek attending, interested
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tantek or even explicit rsvp not-attending.
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aaronpk excellent idea
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aaronpk actually indienews already knows how to parse h-events for a title and location, and uses that as the name of the post
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aaronpk woudln't be far fetched to repurpose it for events.indiewebcamp.com with a slightly different presentation!
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aaronpk what would an "attending" RSVP look like? Somehow I'd make a post on aaronparecki.com that says I'm attending http://indiewebcamp.com/2013?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: best place to look would probably be existing RSVP tweets/notes
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aaronpk good point :)
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barnabywalters the only one of mine I can think of right now is this one: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1142
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barnabywalters although now I would probably tag it #event or #attending
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aaronpk seems like the most likely thing is that people will post "Just RSVP'd for X" where X is a URL representing an event
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barnabywalters aaronpk: the other thing worth considering is that the people talking about the event and people attending the event are likely to overlap considerably
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aaronpk yea, definitely needs to be an explicit yes/no/maybe
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barnabywalters so, I quite often see people tweeting “really sorry to be missing X event” as well as “just got tickets for event Y”
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barnabywalters not sure I’ve ever seen a tweet saying “I might go to event Z”
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barnabywalters so yes/no are covered by existing behaviour, not so sure about maybe
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barnabywalters my initial thoughts on UI+markup for this are:
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barnabywalters 1. I write a note linking to an event.
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barnabywalters 2. My publishing software detects h-event markup in the link and presents me with a summary of the event, along with a Going? Yes/No UI
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barnabywalters 3. The resulting markup for that note includes the h-event with my h-card as a p-participant (or whatever the classname is)
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barnabywalters 4. I ping the event page/indieevents/whatever, it parses my page for h-event, sees me as a participant, registers that I am coming
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bret aaronpk, is IndiNews getting a news feed?
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aaronpk oh like show recent activity on the site?
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bret yeah but in rss/atom format
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tantek aaronpk - re: "what would an attending RSVP look like?" - there are examples on many social networks
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bret or I guess just new posts really
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tantek e.g. on FB, in the news stream, you see little mini-posts from people saying, so-and-so is attending such-and-such event
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aaronpk bret: ah hadn't thought about rss/atom. right now theres the /newest URL which shows all new posts
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tantek aaronpk is /newest marked up with h-entry?
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aaronpk i thought so
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aaronpk yes it is: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/newest.json
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tantek because if so, then you've already got a feed :)
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aaronpk yea I don't really want to do rss/atom
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tantek leave it to the lazyweb to write an h-entry -> RSS/Atom proxy if they really desire such backward compat legacy support ;)
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aaronpk let's make better tools to consume mf2 h-entry feeds :)
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tantek exactly
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bret my rss reader can't see it :(
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tantek bret - so help write a h-entry -> RSS/Atom proxy
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tantek or write an h-entry reader instead :)
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aaronpk surely it would be trivial to make a proxy to convert h-entry to RSS/Atom feed that can just take the URL http://news.indiewebcamp.com/newest as input
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tantek exactly
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EdwardHinkle I was thinking about how everyone's posts are distributed yesterday and was thinking an h-entry reader is definitely a direction to head in the long term. Something that would be like a distributed version of a Facebook Newsfeed, only well built.
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aaronpk bret: I think I might add another feed showing all posts + comments, not just the top-level posts like /newest has
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bret That would be nice
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps /activity could show all posts + comments as they occur in a single timeline
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aaronpk cool, /activity sounds like the right URL
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aaronpk not sure how best to indicate something is a comment though
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tantek the talk bubble icon
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bret ^^^
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tantek and perhaps the icon of the person making the comment
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tantek or icon plus talk bubble like graphic affordance, ala iOS Messages
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aaronpk and posts would not have the person's icon?
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tantek aaronpk - is there anyway for someone to submit a post from another site other than their own? that seems like a common use-case on HN
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aaronpk tantek: it is a common use case on HN, but there isn't a way on IndieNews because it requires the syndication link to exist
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aaronpk I think the best way to do that would be to post a note on your site with a link to the site you're talking about, and then submit your note to IndieNews
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps that would be a good thing to add in the "How To" section
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tantek "How To Submit Articles From Other Sites"
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aaronpk does that seem like a sane approach?
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tantek let's go with that for now and see how it works
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aaronpk interestingly, the first post not from me did this: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/post/waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1373/
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tantek odd, somewhere along the line of all their profile/newsfeed updates, Facebook appear to have dropped the posts saying "so-and-so are going to such-and-such event"
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tantek I can't seem to find them
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tantek I even just clicked "Going" on an event tomorrow to see if anything would show up on my profile page or newsfeed - and nothing
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tantek I guess I'll write it up as a "in the past" example
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tantek another example (of an RSVP post), when people sign-up for an event on eventbrite and then cross-post to FB, Eventbrite posts a RSVP-like post on their profile
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tantek haven't seen one in a while - but they're distinguishable by the eventbrite logo that's posted along with the post
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tantek ah, they still have RSVP posts on event pages themselves. well that's a start.
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tantek aaronpk, I started this: http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-examples - perhaps you could add to it? maybe screenshots of what you've seen? (you seem to have a better screenshot publishing flow than me :) )
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tantek if we can collect a few examples of what rsvp posts look like, we can maybe start figuring out what an indieweb rsvp post should look like (and how it should syndicate etc.)
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aaronpk great!
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aaronpk I used to self-host screenshots too actually
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tantek.com created /rsvp (+196) "stub with a definition" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow, upcoming.org redirects to yahoo.com now :(
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aaronpk it's just completely gone
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tantek.com created /event (+469) "stub with definition and thoughts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /posts (+23) "/* Kinds of Posts */ add event, rsvp" (view diff)
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barnabywalters IIRC statusnet has/had an event publishing UI, and RSVPing
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tantek barnabywalters - yeah I remember evanpro saying/showing something about that (StatusNet event/RSVP posts)
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barnabywalters tantek: just taken a screenshot off my install
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tantek if you're able to dig up any examples (preferably public URLs), perhaps you could add to: http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-examples
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tantek oh great!
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tantek definitely add a StatusNet section there under Examples, and braindump what you see and remember seeing
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barnabywalters aw, no file upload?
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tantek transclusion works
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barnabywalters btw tantek did you see the inline commenting web action demo aaronpk + I did on indienews?
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tantek just put http://example.com/screenshots.png in the source and mediawiki will embed the image
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aaronpk barnabywalters: i thought file upload was enabled on the wiki
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aaronpk or do you mean microformats?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: not on the mf wiki
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk not my baby
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tantek lol
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tantek yeah - can always upload to the indiewebcamp wiki and transclude into the microformats wiki
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tantek probably better that way, since the bar for contributing to the indiewebcamp wiki is higher
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tantek (and we still have to daily fight spam on the microformats wiki)
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aaronpk tantek: why does the events page say to mark up an event with both h-entry and h-event? I thought an item could be one or the other
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tantek aaronpk - that's one of the elegant design aspects of microformats - you can mark something up as multiple types of microformats - so that consumers of either kind of object find it.
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tantek also helps with forward compatibility if/when we introduce more specific microformats for things, e.g. if we created a special "comment" microformat that somehow had more than just a normal h-entry, you could mark something up as both
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tantek in fact, my blog (and I think barnaby's) already does this
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tantek with h-entry and h-as-note or h-as-article
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, I’m using h-as-note and article
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tantek so an event post would simply have class="h-entry h-event"
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tantek and everything would work
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barnabywalters when I add commenting, they’ll probably be a child h-feed p-comments or something like that
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aaronpk true good point
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tantek barnabywalters - there's been some past work on comment markup brainstorming
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tantek although there's a difference between
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tantek a) a comment post (AKA reply post)
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tantek and
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tantek b) a comments *section* in a post
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tantek those may be two different enough use-cases to merit different research
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tantek but similar (but maybe not exactly the same) solutions
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tantek would be great if you could add your ideas (in maybe a new section at the top) here: http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-brainstorming
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barnabywalters tantek: will do in a min, currently sketching big UI changes for taproot
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tantek nice! sketch away :)
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tantek (just wanted to make sure you had a link to start from)
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barnabywalters great, thanks
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barnabywalters woah, I hadn’t realised so much research had been done on comment markup! cool
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tantek indeed. and the page can likely use some cleanup too. but feel free to simply add a new section at the top and not worry about cleanup.
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aaronpk welp there goes another one http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/01/yahoo-acquires-to-do-app-astrid/
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tantek Yahoo - where your content gets acquired to die a slow neglected death.
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