#indiewebcamp 2013-05-23

2013-05-23 UTC
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pdurbin $date = date("Y-m-d")
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pdurbin header("Location: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/$date");
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pdurbin aaronpk: by leveraging https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-mysql I'm able to back up my mysql database with only a few lines of Puppet code: https://github.com/pdurbin/greptilian-vagrant/blob/master/modules/server1/manifests/init.pp#L234
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tantek.com edited /Google (+196) "readonly silos, e.g. Buzz" (view diff)
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pdurbin starts catching up on http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-05-22
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pdurbin tantek: thanks for asking about G+ comment permalinks! too bad they shrugged :(
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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pdurbin "Known feature request that's never made it to the head of the priority queue." when I asked a Googler here: https://plus.google.com/+AdeOshineye/posts/6zUWbNKbWrM
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pdurbin see also http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57405079-264/why-each-google-comment-should-get-its-own-web-address/
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tantek.com created /Google_Buzz (+1561) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google+ (+663) "add Issues section with Lack of comment permalinks issue" (view diff)
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tantek np. captured. http://indiewebcamp.com/Google%2B#Lack_of_comment_permalinks
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pdurbin reading the log is making me tired. and it's dark out. time to bike home to the family
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pdurbin tommorris: I am curious to hear more about wikipedia as a silo, though. you make it sound like a bad thing. do you have a vision for something like wikipedia that isn't a silo? I get a lot of value out of wikipedia already. it seems to work well enough
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tantek one month til IndieWebCamp 2013! http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/
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Loqi [mention] http://pb21.de/2013/05/webschau-mai-2013/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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@xtof_fr .@BenHasnae Plan "Viens je t'emmène" (sur #indieweb)
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bret is the 50 person limit a hard limit?
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@francoisL comments-presentation -How comments are presented, should be, and who is doing what #IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation
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@BarnabyWalters @sandeepshetty using Mandrill — I documented it on the wiki http://indiewebcamp.com/email (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1443/)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1443/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/email (pingback)
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tommorris pdurbin: "wikipedia as a silo" - I don't think that's a bad thing, but it is a centralised place. attempts at building decentralised wikipedias (or indeed competitors) have failed
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tommorris same with OpenStreetMap and other services - all can be used to augment indieweb (say, by using OSM as a location DB, which I do) but they are silos
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tommorris except they are kind of "open silos" in the sense that all the data and code is free, so if they were to turn evil, you can fork
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pdurbin sure, at least with wikipedia, one can download massive database dumps, from what I understand
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pdurbin it's the same with stackoverflow. they make dumps of their data available
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tommorris the point I'm makng is simply: they are silos that are useful to us and we should treat them as neutral rather than hostile. ;)
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tommorris also, OSM is available for download. it's quite large though. ;)
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pdurbin yea, I feel ok from an "own your data" perspective contributing to sites such as wikipedia or stackoverflow since they make the data available. stackoverflow even has a nice API from which you can download all your questions, answers, and comments.
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tommorris Wikipedia is pretty helpful too - if you are a trusted community member, you can run queries against a live mirror database
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tommorris I got access to the new live mirror system yesterday. I can run a query that scans the `page` table and it takes about a minute. ;)
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pdurbin cool. and I didn't know about the OSM data dumps
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tommorris OSM is particularly good - if you set up a mirror, you can get nearly live diffs. weekly, daily, hourly or even minute-by-minute
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pdurbin over and over Jeff Atwood has said he wanted StackOverflow to make the internet better. in general, I think he's achieved this. so I'd call his efforts better than neutral :)
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tommorris oh yes, StackOverflow makes my life a lot easier
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pdurbin yeah. same with wikipedia. better than neutral :)
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pdurbin the big question for me is always, "Can I get my data out of this thing?"
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pdurbin tommorris: anyway, I'm glad you're not as against these sites as I suspected from your comments yesterday :)
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tommorris oh no, I'm an OSM contributor and a WP admin. ;)
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tommorris ooh, you can donate to OSM via Bitcoin.
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pdurbin :)
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@xtof_fr @Anthere http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page réponse #indieweb á raffiner + tard ds ta #wikibox personnelle http://christopheducamp.com/w/Anthere ;) Je t'embrasse xtof
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aaronpk bret: no it's not
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tantek tommorris, pdurbin, I'm not sure I'd call everything centralized a "silo". Silo to me implies some amount of wall, restrictive TOS, or other weird proprietariness/corporateness.
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tantek wikipedia, OSM, and indeed indiewebcamp.com are not silos IMO, but more instances of commons.
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tantek shared community spaces where some corporate entity isn't claiming ownership of your work, and there is very low (little/no) effort involved in moving your data in/out.
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tantek another "test" of silo-ness, can someone freely create a mirror, and if the original shuts down, have the mirror effectively replace the original from a community perspective? with silos I'd say no. with commons I'd say yes.
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barnabywalters we come up with a lot of these little tests — maybe we need a new wiki page for them
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tantek barnabywalters - they're on each page that they're relevant for
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tantek not sure aggregating all "tests" would be useful for anything in particular
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tantek I typically bring things like this up in the channel to see if there is quick agreement (or not) on them, and if so, then add them to the wiki.
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tantek barnabywalters - what do you think of my distinction between a "silo" and a "commons" ?
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pdurbin it's useful
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barnabywalters makes sense
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tommorris tantek: sensible distinction
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benwerd Out of interest, is anyone *reading* webfinger in anger, and if so, are you looking for specific information? (I'm aware of the conversation about it not necessarily being useful in the Indieweb context)
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tantek in anger?
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benwerd sorry - in a live system :)
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tantek benwerd do you mean the webfinger email list / support forum, or webfinger magic invisible URLs/files or ?
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benwerd I'll clarify: is anyone, in their production software, reading information from another system's webfinger URLs / files, and if so, are you looking for certain properties in particular?
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benwerd (Sorry)
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tantek good question. not sure why you'd bother to do so when you can get better information from visible hCards on people's sites.
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benwerd Right. And I already have that. I'm basically wondering if it's worth developing support.
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aaronpk I haven't gone anywhere near webfinger
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tantek benwerd, support for publishing or looking for?
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aaronpk I tried setting it up on parecki.com back at the FSWS in 2010 but it was kind of confusing
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benwerd Support for publishing
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tantek I don't think anyone's active /projects bother consuming it at all
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tantek plus, do you really want to take on the tax of maintaining another piece of duplicate invisible metadata?
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benwerd not really ;) but I was going to if it was going to be useful to someone
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benwerd cool. anyway, thanks for the feedback - decision made.
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tantek.com edited /silo (+575) "note corporate ownership, restrictive TOS, content ownership claims" (view diff)
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aaronpk that's what we're here for :)
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tantek.com created /commons (+1662) "draft a stub with definition, examples, test" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris, pdurbin, barnabywalters, for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/commons
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barnabywalters tantek: like it
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tantek.com edited /commons (+17) "(or no explicit) TOS" (view diff)
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tommorris will have a look shortly. just having fun with banks
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pdurbin fun with lucene
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EHLOVader I had a question that I don't think was answered on the why web sign in faq about the use of RelMeAuth...
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EHLOVader I think I may be missing something, but I didn't know if there was anyone here now that really knew about it. I just discovered it.
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EHLOVader Let me preface that I think the concept sounds interesting.
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tommorris hey EHLOVader
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EHLOVader But for the end users, I don't quite understand the benefits, or why typing in a domain name, besides hosting a page there with the relMe links, would be any simpler than buttons that provide the user a one click choice of provider to authenticate through, via oAuth. Like this http://i.imgur.com/e3t19lt.png
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brbcoding that looks wooty
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Loqi yay!
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pdurbin !tell tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/commons looks good. nice work
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pdurbin links it up: http://irclog.greptilian.com/wonderstudy/2013-05-23
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tommorris EHLOVader: it isn't "simpler" for the end user, it gives more control to the end user. also, you avoid the NASCAR problem
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tantek EHLOVader "buttons that provide the user a one click choice of provider" are "simpler" for the user in the same way that fascism or totalitarianism is simpler for the end user.
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tantek explicitly providing a text input provides a much more level playing field for users to choose an identity among large or small silos or their own domain
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tantek it's a deliberate design to shape the experience to *not* bias for larger corporate silos that inevitably do not have the user's best interests in mind, for all the same reasons as: http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in#Why_not_3rd_party_provider_email
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@adactio @mathowie Probably when I was in town for IndieWebCamp almost two years ago now.
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exts.ch edited /2013/Guest_List (+489) "/* Creators */ add self" (view diff)
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exts.ch created /User:Exts.ch (+428) "li'l profile" (view diff)
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@natevw I'm *so* on their guest list. http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/Guest_List
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brennannovak.com edited /email (+250) "/* How To Accept Inbound Email */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/patrol () "marked revision 2932 of [[User:Exts.ch]] patrolled" (view diff)