2013-06-29 UTC
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# 00:51 tommorris tommorris.org has had a seasonal makeover. be sure to check it out.
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# 02:13 bret ozten: how did the camlistore expedition go?
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# 03:11 tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+71) "/* Level 0 */ rel-me is part of indieauth, stick to microformats2 for the "some content" requirement, more than one h-entry" (
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# 03:41 bret It would be cool to get posse working statically somehow
# 03:42 tantek that was why we added the clauses there we did
# 03:43 bret i think I need to re-figure out why I am doing static only. I was thinking about it and the primary connivence was due to github hosting.
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# 03:50 bret maybe there could be facebook like wall functions
# 03:50 bret IE, trusted domains could actually proactively send you a message to display in your stream
# 03:51 bret maybe it could be some cryptographic based implementation to establish trust or something
# 03:56 bret im hoping to post my IWC roundup this evening
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# 05:14 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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# 05:29 erikmaarten !tell barnabywalters: there seems to be a problem installing mf-cleaner with Composer. mf-cleaner requires tantek/cassis, but "no matching package found". Perhaps a minimum-stability issue?
# 05:29 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 05:30 erikmaarten !tell barnabywalters: sorry, mf-cleaner requires helpers, which require tantek/cassis.
# 05:30 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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# 06:28 bret already found an error in the syndication
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# 08:17 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 08:17 bret tantek you still have your upcoming link
# 08:18 bret its one of the nicer logos i have to say
# 08:21 bret tommorris are you accepting post replies?
# 08:24 bret In response to your RSS problem, its not idea, but fever works okay
# 08:27 bret feedbin looks alright, have not tried it
# 08:27 bret works with reeder right? I love my offline caching for my phone
# 08:28 tommorris well, it works with Reeder on iPhone, but they haven't yet sorted out Reeder for iPad and Mac
# 08:28 tommorris Reeder for Mac is the killer for me - I do most of my RSS reading on my laptop on the way to work
# 08:29 bret someone needs to write an h-atom parser and implement it into a feed reader
# 08:29 tommorris they are removing Reeder for Mac and iPad from the App Stores on July 1 because they won't work with anything else but Google Reader for a while
# 08:30 bret you could try to sneak by uins the iphone app
# 08:30 tommorris yeah, but I'd then have to use my iPod touch for reading everything
# 08:31 bret good time to open source the desktop app and accept pull requests
# 08:32 tommorris OS X version as open source loss leader for the iPhone/iPad versions ;)
# 08:33 bret i wish newsblur wasnt such a hassle to self host
# 08:33 bret i also wish "reeder support for news blur will likely never happen" wasnt the reality
# 08:34 tommorris so, I have a copy of ReadKit, which is an offline Instapaper client for OS X
# 08:34 bret i have little trust in most small mac app developers
# 08:35 bret so many seem to be so slow to keep up or eventually abandon their apps
# 08:39 bret haha! whacha gonna do with all those stars? yikes!
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# 10:24 aaronpk tho now that people are publishing "likes", really an upvote should just be a syndicated "like"
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# 10:32 pfefferle as mentioned yesterday, i am experimenting with a push enabled feed reader… with the focus on the content independent new push spec...
# 10:33 pfefferle for that i am updating my php-libs (namespaces, new spec…)
# 10:33 pfefferle are you interested to release it under the hood of the indieweb repo?
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# 15:30 tantek who here is working on building / integrating a personal feed reader into their personal site? i.e. so you can read what your friends are saying and seamlessly reply right there inline and have it post your replies to your own site?
# 15:32 tantek opens Google Reader one last time to see if I missed anything.
# 15:34 tantek looks like Twitter turned off Atom feeds on 2012-10-09
# 15:35 sandeepshetty excited about some feed stuff I'm doing. more when I have something to show :)
# 15:38 tantek I had heard people talking about it but wasn't sure who had prioritized it as an itch or a "working on"
# 15:40 tantek Similar to indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Working_On (hey Aaronpk is that section empty? are you not working on anything? or just haven't bubbled some itches up to working on?)
# 15:41 tantek (I tend to overthink things before I code them :) )
# 15:42 tantek so it looks like maybe I just haven't opened Google Reader since 2012-10-09?
# 15:42 tantek here's a major flaw (comparing RSS readers to Email). If I don't open the reader, it fails to read/receive posts. Whereas email queues up whether I open the Email reader or not.
# 15:48 tantek sandeepshetty - I think I prefer it for some sources. Others I want to read every post.
# 15:49 tantek it's source dependent for me. not plumbing (Atom vs SMTP) dependent
# 15:49 tantek it's just plain dumb that feeds work that way by default
# 15:49 tantek especially for server based readers like Google Reader
# 15:50 tantek they could have had a setting like [x] aggregate on the server
# 15:53 tantek interesting, twitter returns HTTP 406 Not Acceptable for requests to what used to be their Atom feeds.
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# 16:56 tantek judging from various Google Reader subscriptions - it really does look like a huge amount of feeds died in 2011
# 17:00 tantek another pattern I'm noticing is that a lot of sites have their feed for anything at /feed appended to the path
# 17:01 tantek for anyone who wants to just publish a stream of posts without home page furniture links etc., that might be a good pattern
# 17:04 tantek even when the content in the middle changes :)
# 17:04 tantek and apparently I have 0 starred items in Google Reader. right then, buy bye.
# 17:04 tantek good riddance Google Reader - you never supported proper Atom parsing of XHTML anyway.
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# 17:07 aaronpk hm is there the concept of an "author" for an h-event?
# 17:08 aaronpk i just changed the class on my h-entry to h-event and now I see an author of the h-event :)
# 17:09 tantek I think you still want an h-entry when you post about an event
# 17:09 tantek but on an event permalink page - you want an h-event
# 17:10 tantek events themselves don't have authors - unless they're booksignings ;)
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# 17:54 aaronpk ugh, php datetime doesn't support setting only timezone offsets, you have to set an actual timezone
# 17:56 JonathanNeal Let me know if you happen to notice an easier way of describing the system.
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# 18:03 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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# 18:32 bret aaronpk: Replacing upvotes with syndicated likes is a good idea
# 18:34 bret aaronpk: also, it looks like something went a little wrong when your site parsed my note:
# 18:47 aaronpk ah there is no space between the URL and the <p> tag
# 18:47 aaronpk <a class="u-in-reply-to" href="http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/06/28/1/indieweb">@aaronparecki.com</a><p>How cool! Really great work.</p>
# 18:49 bret well, I'll fix on my end, and resend a mention when you do
# 18:50 aaronpk i think i want to store versions of comments internally so I can at least see if something was updated
# 18:51 bret That makes sense. Especially if you reply to it
# 18:51 aaronpk I like how twitter avoided that problem entirely by not allowing updates
# 18:54 bret I was playing around with my git repo for my site last night
# 18:54 bret I can go back to any point in time and see what the site looked like
# 18:55 bret More of a curiosity than anything else
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# 19:22 bret Say I have a list of stories on a page marked with h-entry. Does each story have to have an h-card in it? Or could I somehow reference a single h-card somewhere else on the page in each h-entry?
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# 19:42 aaronpk not sure how many people have actually implemented that algorithm yet, but that's the right idea
# 19:45 erikmaarten aaronpk: I think you do support updates :) I tried resending a webmention to you, and although an already_registered error was returned the mention was updated
# 19:45 bret so you can link to another page with the h-card
# 19:46 aaronpk erikmaarten: do you know what page you sent it to?
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# 19:48 erikmaarten I noticed my microformatting wasn't quite ok, so I tried resending and was a bit surprised that it updated on the spot :)
# 19:51 aaronpk when I check if the site links to my page, that part of the code goes and updates the remote file on disk. so by the time my code replies "already registered" the file has already been updated
# 19:51 aaronpk guess i'll need to re-evaluate that whole flow now that we have the CRUD spec
# 19:53 aaronpk where did the whole thing about CRUD go on the wiki?
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# 19:59 erikmaarten I think I might just enable deleting and updating for a short time period after the original webmention
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# 20:00 erikmaarten and also, there is no risk of losing important parts of conversations
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# 20:04 erikmaarten working on a filter for arbitrary number of tags/categories -- proved trickier than I thought ...
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# 22:00 Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 3 hours, 56 minutes ago: - there are still a few more things left.
# 22:01 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 22:03 Loqi yes: caseorganic left you a message 1 minute ago: - just a very few
# 22:03 tantek hey Loqi, you can be spoofed for !tell message delivery
# 22:12 caseorganic tantek: woah - that's fantastic. i'm going to be using this in the future
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# 22:44 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 22:46 tantek sandeepshetty because there's an expectation that an hCard at the destination of the rel-author will be richer (e.g. have an avatar) than the one on the post page
# 22:46 tantek because if they're using rel-author, they literally may only have a link
# 22:46 tantek and one of the primary use-cases of authorship discovery is to retrieve an avatar for the person
# 22:48 sandeepshetty actually I was thinking in the context of a feed when it usually points to the same (home) page
# 22:54 tantek sandeepshetty - good questions. I'm documenting use-cases and design notes on the authorship page as a result.
# 22:56 sandeepshetty It looks like the h-feed p-name on sandeep.io will have to be hidden because I can't think of a place to add it in the content other than the html.head.title tag
# 22:58 tantek.com edited /authorship (+2054) "explicitly document use-cases and design notes to provide background into why the authorship algorithm works the way it does." (
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# 23:00 tantek <html class="h-feed"> … <title class="p-name">sandeep.io</title>
# 23:02 tantek is working on fixing / updating / improving his reply posting code today.
# 23:05 tantek as of HTML5, class is allowed on <html> <head> <title> <meta> etc., and as of microformats2, parsers are required to support it
# 23:05 tantek get it working and I'll add your site as an example of how to do so on the microformats h-feed page :)
# 23:06 tantek browsers have styled those elements for years, so you can use CSS also
# 23:10 sandeepshetty tantek: what does it mean to style those elements when they are not visible (except maybe title)?
# 23:17 tantek they are only not visible because they are display:none by default in the UA stylesheet
# 23:25 sandeepshetty hmm.. just noticed the display:none.. since the head only has tags.. nothing wil show up though and I tried adding some free-form content inside head but that messes up the dom
# 23:26 tantek yes it does - HTML doesn't really support free form content there
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# 23:45 sandeepshetty hmm.. the fallback to treat title as p-name means one more pass at the html (especially if you're using php-mf2... how about also an alternative to use the page's URL as p-name?
# 23:56 tantek I think any new wiki I start I will require indieauth
# 23:57 sandeepshetty pdurbin: was meaning to ask sivoais about a real world implementation like that... will drop later maybe.
# 23:59 tantek aaronpk - thanks for starting the CRUD article - had been meaning to do that :)