#indiewebcamp 2013-07-11

2013-07-11 UTC
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@ronaldjadams RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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bret ack, i somehow closed this channel o.0
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@julien51 RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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@chris_vannoy RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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bret tantek, I am going to set up a pesetas setup for tumblr, as a backup dumping ground
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@osiziqol Why not to post (on Medium)^(2): https://medium.com/indieweb-thoughts/9d0e36524dbf … https://medium.com/surveillance
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tantek bret - sounds good
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bret trying to brainstorm where I keep all my little data piles right now
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bret so far there is a split between things I need to attend to at a later date and then dumping grounds of interesting things that I may want to reference later on if it every becomes more relevant to me
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tantek bret - perhaps start jotting down what you know and what you're not sure of on your User page
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek#my_indie_web_setup
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bret Im doing it on paper first, but I will once I feel like I have the indieweb relavant stuff separated out from the other random crap
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bret i will
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@StuRobson RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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@thecodezombie RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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bret.io edited /User:Bre.tc (+28) "Added redirect to my new domain" (view diff)
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@lbrt RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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@xtof_fr Pourquoi ne pas poster (on Medium)² :
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+4377) "Updated my user page a braindump" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+1) "/* my indie web setup */ typo" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+135) "/* Current IndieWeb Projects */ Added another project" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+87) "/* Current IndieWeb Projects */" (view diff)
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tommorris holy shit, I just saw annoying Tumblr advertising on my old archive site.
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+4) "/* Current IndieWeb Projects */ Woops! I mean non-cs" (view diff)
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tommorris puts "finally redirect Tumblr URLs" to the top of his to-do list
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bret what do you mean?
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@merlinrebrovic A post on Medium about not posting on Medium https://medium.com/surveillance-state/19a5db211e47 and own your data https://medium.com/indieweb-thoughts/9d0e36524dbf via @t
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (-1) "/* my indie web setup */ typo" (view diff)
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tommorris bret: my old site is still at blog.tommorris.org - I have been meaning to set up a redirect to tommorris.org
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tommorris and today I saw on there that Tumblr now have this stupid slidey advert on the right hand side. I thought something had gone wrong with my computer
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tommorris that they are now attempting to monetize my content like that is the final straw to finish nudging it all over to tommorris.org
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bret your new site is way cooler anyway
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tommorris thanks ;)
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tommorris it's just a matter of finishing off imports for a few post types I haven't been bothered to do yet
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tommorris and then pointing the old subdomain to the new URLs
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+19) "/* my indie web setup */" (view diff)
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bret OK goodnight
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Loqi gute nacht!
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neuro` Oh no, we're up all night to get Loqi
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Loqi is done
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hupili.net edited /User:Hupili.net (+641) "/* HU, Pili */" (view diff)
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hupili.net created /User_talk:Hupili.net (+539) "Created page with "Is there any test hubs for webmention? I have tried to reply someone's post but did not see any effect. I don't know whether it is because they have an approval process. Is there..."" (view diff)
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: does php-mf2 convert relative URLs to absolute?
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: yes
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sandeepshetty by default?
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barnabywalters if you pass a URL as the second constructor param
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sandeepshetty ok trying it now
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barnabywalters it’ll also resolve absolute URLs within the values of e-* properties
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barnabywalters and should for rels too
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sandeepshetty nice. so I just pass the url of the site that I retrieved the content from or do I need to convert it to a bar URL?
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sandeepshetty *base
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: nope, just the URL — “baseurl” is me badly naming things again
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barnabywalters php-mf2 is getting a bit of feature creep — I’ll be doing a bit of API redesign soon
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: webignition errors... looks like some dependencies are not being included
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sandeepshetty require-dev
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I use autoloading everywhere so if you’re not you may need to include the webignition classes manually
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sandeepshetty I've included vendor/autoload.php
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barnabywalters hm, that is strange — could you paste the error somewhere for me to see?
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barnabywalters I think aaronpk was having some similar problems
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sandeepshetty sorry gtg (have to pick up my daughter from school). Will be back in a few hrs and try again.
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barnabywalters okay, no problem
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@favstar_tech RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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edsu just curious, how did loqi pick up tantek's tweet
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Loqi who, me?
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edsu :)
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barnabywalters edsu: Loqi watches for #ownyourdata, #indieweb and #indiewebcamp
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edsu got it, thnx
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barnabywalters he(?) can also expand tweets — if you post the URL, he’ll say the tweet
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edsu nice
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barnabywalters e.g:
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barnabywalters https://twitter.com/BarnabyWalters/status/354342489471201280
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@BarnabyWalters Just out of the oven: gluten free rice flour chocolate+cinnamon soufflé!
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barnabywalters he’s a pretty great bot
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barnabywalters Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 158 karma
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edsu loqi++
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Loqi loqi has 159 karma
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edsu :)
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@edsu It’s your data. It’s your life. #ownyourdata also, hi loqi :-)
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edsu hmm let's try that again
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@edsu It's Your Data. It's Your Life. http://t.co/jAeuE8tT7H #ownyourdata also, hi (again) loqi :-)
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@AubreyMcFato RT @edsu: It's Your Data. It's Your Life. http://inkdroid.org/journal/2013/06/27/its-your-data-its-your-life/ #ownyourdata also, hi (again) loqi :-)
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@TimHaines RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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@Harramydeytemmy RT @pfefferle: My Webmention plugin for #WordPress should be kind of stable now… Time to ping the #IndieWeb… http://notizblog.org/t/1TB
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@dobata RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: PHP Fatal error: Call to undefined method webignition\\NormalisedUrl\\Path\\Path::hasTrailingSlash() in converspace/vendor/webignition/absolute-url-deriver/src/webignition/AbsoluteUrlDeriver/AbsoluteUrlDeriver.php on line 91
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barnabywalters oh crap it’s yet another bloody versioning error
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barnabywalters okay, that’s it, I’m getting rid of those libraries
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barnabywalters bear with me while I implement a url resolver within php-mf2
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sandeepshetty what sort of versioning error?
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lionzan Hi all, this is my first-time-ever on IRC 8-P I'm getting my indieweb up at lionzan.me and I'll hang around a while here to see what's going on :[] thanks bret for showing me here!
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sandeepshetty aren't you commiting the lock files to as well?
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: sandeepshetty yeah, but IIRC those libraries don’t always require the right versions
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barnabywalters or stable versions
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sandeepshetty hey lionzan
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barnabywalters greetings lionzan!
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: I was in the process of implementing a url resolver and was hoping I won't have to :)
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barnabywalters lionzan: lionzan.me is looking good! how about adding some microformats2 h-entry to those blog posts
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I’ll try to fix it by just requiring a stable version
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sandeepshetty lionzan: I read the OIR stuff a few days ago :)
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lionzan barnabywalters thx! sure, I want to do it in the following days but I have to make sense of it all
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lionzan sandeepshetty: good, hope you liked it! non-tech guy trying to get indie ;)
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barnabywalters lionzan: okay, great — feel free to ask if you come across any stumbling blocks, we’re always trying to improve the documentations
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barnabywalters *documentation
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lionzan barnabywalters: thx! Just add the microformats2 h-entry? Will I have also to send this info out (push?) ?
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barnabywalters lionzan: just adding the markup is the most important part — by push are you referring to pubsubhubbub?
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lionzan barnabywalters: silly me, no nothing. It's there so that when I get quoted I can be referred to, right?
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barnabywalters lionzan: that’s one of the most common usages at the moment, but also so your comments can be parsed and all sorts of other good stuff
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pfefferle barnabywalters: have also thought about supporting the <base /> tag?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: in php-mf2? it works, including the weird edge case of having a relative URL in the <base> element
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pfefferle :D
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pfefferle i am searching through my code… i thought i implemented something like an absurl function anywhere...
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lionzan barnabywalters: i'll do it in the next days hopefully (which normally means hours OR weeks ;)
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barnabywalters pfefferle: see also http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1384/
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pfefferle oh man… weird
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: should I wait for you to implement it or hack something up? (currently stuck at implementing /authorship and need to follow the rel="author" which is/could-be relative
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cweiske relative URLs are not allowed in <base>
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cweiske http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#edef-BASE
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cweiske href = uri [CT]
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cweiske This attribute specifies an absolute URI that acts as the base URI for resolving relative URIs.
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href yep
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: for the moment, try requiring the webignition/url library with @stable, that might work
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sandeepshetty (Y) also this might help for implementing your own http://sourceforge.net/projects/absoluteurl
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barnabywalters cweiske: not so in html5: http://developers.whatwg.org/urls.html#base-urls
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barnabywalters step 3: resolve <base href> to fallback base URL (the document’s address)
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cweiske barnabywalters, I don't see this sentence
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cweiske ok
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cweiske Resolve url relative to fallback base url
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: http://web.archive.org/web/20090202135530/http://nadeausoftware.com/articles/2008/05/php_tip_how_convert_relative_url_absolute_url
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pfefferle yea, thats the article to the lib that barnabywalters found
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tommorris barnabywalters: you might want to have a look at Addressable - Ruby library that actually implements URIs to spec
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: just pushed v0.1.19 which requires an @stable version of absolute url resolver — installing mf2/mf2 in a clean environment works fine for me now so hopefully it’ll work for you too
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pfefferle (Y)
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: ran composer udpate and I can see it upgraded to .19 but I'm still seeing the same error
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: hm, strange
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barnabywalters ah, I recognise this problem actually
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barnabywalters do you have the i18n extension installed & up to date?
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sandeepshetty what extension is this?
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barnabywalters a php extension for dealing with translations and such things — for some reason the version of webignition/url which is needed for the url resolving to work requires it
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barnabywalters it’s probably just easier to get rid of the dependency althgether
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sandeepshetty by extension you mean complied code? Can't use custom extensions on my host
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barnabywalters yep
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sandeepshetty it looks like an issue with either requiring or specifying the namespace
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barnabywalters the problem is that relative-url-resolver loosely requires the url lib, but the version of the url lib which is actually necessary to resolve urls requires the intl extension, so composer gets the latest version which *doesn’t* require the extension
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barnabywalters the require statement in webignition/relative-url-resolver is not strict enough
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sandeepshetty how about filing a bug for it on webignition/relative-url-resolver ?
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barnabywalters which is another reason we need to get rid of that dependency
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: that’ll make it a little easier to debug, but won’t let it work on hosts which don’t have the intl extension installed
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barnabywalters but good plan, I’ll do that now
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sandeepshetty do you know where/why the url lib requires the intl extension?
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barnabywalters huh, the require is actually strict enough https://github.com/webignition/absolute-url-deriver/blob/master/composer.json#L19
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barnabywalters must be a composer bug then
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I suspect it’s for IDN -> ASCII normalisation
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sandeepshetty barnabywalters: tried to require "dev-master" of webignition/url which happens to be 1.7.2 and I got the error related to ext-intl: "webignition/url 1.7.2 requires ext-intl * -> the requested PHP extension intl is missing from your system."
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barnabywalters sandeepshetty: okay so that shows us what the bug is
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sandeepshetty so it's the latest version that requires it
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sandeepshetty (of webignition/url)
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barnabywalters yep, and the latest version is required to do relative url resolution
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sandeepshetty and it seems to be installing 1.4.1 instead
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barnabywalters yeah, I had exactly this problem before I installed the extension
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barnabywalters so we just need to add the resolving logic to php-mf2
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barnabywalters or, I have a bunch of URL-related functions I’ve been meaning to package up, and I’m betting you do too
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barnabywalters so we could make a functional URL package with it in and require that, making it reusable
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sandeepshetty I'm wondering if we can just use http://sourceforge.net/projects/absoluteurl/ for now... don't want to get distracted with a URL lib right now....
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sandeepshetty so dropping the dependency and we use that prj for now or just include it with php-mf2?
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sandeepshetty I see a lot of prj's on github that just use that lib by including it..
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barnabywalters in transit, bbiab
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@jonnybarnes New post: https://jonnybarnes.net/blog/2013/07/indieweb-and-short-urls
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@matro RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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EHLOVader I assume that is in here because jonny is too
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EHLOVader but don't know the handle. need to setup a website where I can reply through indieweb to these things... :-/
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tantek @jonnybarnes see: http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#why_personal_short_URLs
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tantek EHLOVader http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started :)
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EHLOVader but shortening urls on third party data silos is used (by me) and maybe others to track clicks and interest
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EHLOVader thanks tantek
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EHLOVader I have been talking in here moar than lurking recently, I should update the wiki
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EHLOVader if you are hosting your data, indieweb style, you don't need shortened urls for tracking clicks and traffic anymore
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EHLOVader it is only for removing burden of long urls, or maybe twitter
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tantek EHLOVader - see above "why personal short URLs" link
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tantek many more reasons documented there
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tantek also a few seconds of googling for why short URLs found:
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sandeepshetty !tell barnabywalters: https://github.com/webignition/absolute-url-deriver/issues/2
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URL_shortening#Purposes
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tantek http://mashable.com/2009/04/05/url-shorteners/ (weak but a few points of note)
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tantek http://www.searchdiscovery.com/blog/short-urls/
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tantek http://qntm.org/urls
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tantek (nice self-referential URL)
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tantek and http://hansengel.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/short-urls/
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EHLOVader tantek: that is what i was responding about
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EHLOVader I agree
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EHLOVader and was just discussing
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tantek referencing your "only for" - there are plenty of other reasons too.,
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EHLOVader ooh that one is good over at hansengel
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EHLOVader oh
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EHLOVader so wait tantek you use short urls like at qntm in your url shortening things?
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EHLOVader is there an automated way to pull out the most meaningful word from the title?, if you plan to take it down to one
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EHLOVader can you @ people in here and it gets to them somehow or somewhere in the indieweb system?
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EHLOVader like you did tantek with jonny
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tantek not yet, but aaronpk is working on it
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tantek for Loqi to do so
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EHLOVader interesting
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EHLOVader would it be like commenting as us?
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tantek I think aaronpk has the specifics figured out. It's just a small matter of programming. :)
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EHLOVader does our hostmask get matched up somewhere already? like on our website with all the rel= attributes?
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EHLOVader nickname!UserID@Host sort of thing, like they do for flags in IRC anyway
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EHLOVader that will be neat
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tantek I believe the plan is to use this http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people as the connection between people here in the channel and their personal site, rel-me'd to their Twitter.
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tantek and yes, the idea is to have Loqi *only* do @-replies for people listed in http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people (i.e. not just anyone in the channel) as way of limiting spam/abuse.
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Loqi dude
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tantek dude
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donpdonp logging into indewebcamp wiki with github.com/donpdonp throws an indieauth error "Parameter "profile" must be one of the rel=me links"
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donpdonp is rel=me not enough anymore?
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tantek donpdonp - sharecropped identity (github.com/donpdonp) is not enough
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donpdonp then i dont understand the error. the setup at https://indieauth.com/setup seems to be the same as before
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donpdonp tantek: oh im not logging in with github.com/donpdonp, im logging in with donpark.org and selecting github.com/donpdonp
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tantek oh weird - perhaps double-check you have https in all the right places?
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tantek aaronpk ^^^
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donpdonp hmm. donpark.org contains <a rel="me" href="https://github.com/donpdonp">code</a>
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tantek sounds good. and your github links back to donpark.org?
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donpdonp the github profile page has <a href="http://donpark.org/" class="url" rel="nofollow me">http://donpark.org/</a>
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donpdonp does that need to be https ?
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tantek no - just has to be consistent -
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tantek unless you redirect http://donpark.org/ to https://donpark.org/
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donpdonp i dont.
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tantek then I'm stumped. aaronpk?
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neuro` donpdonp: happy to see you're still using Typo (even though you're 2 versions late)
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donpdonp neuro`: ha. hello! yeah im still holding on to typo.
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neuro` donpdonp: typo was renamed Publify 2 days ago, a new version should be released during August.
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donpdonp neuro`: OH okay. interesting.
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neuro` donpdonp: should include web mention support
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donpdonp fantastic.
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tantek neuro` - perhaps add Publify to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects ?
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tantek especially when there are at least two of you using it! (even if different versions)
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tantek do you consider Typo/Publify "production" or still "experimental"?
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neuro` tantek: Typo is 7 years old, and used to power weblog.rubyonrails.org in 2006-2007
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neuro` I'd say we have a few thousand users considering the number of stars / forks on github
Phae_, shaners_, cweiske, bretolius, EHLOVader[znc], fu9ar, tantek, andreypopp, donpdonp_, brixen_, donpdonp, elf-pavlik, lionzan, xtof, musigny and demis joined the channel
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demis donpdonp: are your site's rel="me" links on the main home page or on a separate profile page?
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donpdonp demis: https://github.com/donpdonp links to the url im logging in with, if thats what you mean
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donpdonp the setup has been working for a year, i suspect something on the indieauth side has changed
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demis benwerd: I'm getting the same error on indieauth as donpdonp since I switched to Idno, could it be because my rel="me" links are now on the profile page, and that the profile page link from index.php doesn't include rel="me"?
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benwerd Yeah. I ended up writing myself a small custom plugin for werd.io to push my profile block to the front page
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benwerd I can let you have that if you'd like?
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benwerd it maybe should be a top-level option in idno
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demis that would be awesome thanks
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benwerd can you email me at ben@benwerd.com? I'll reply with the plugin
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demis I was looking through the code last night for where it's generating the link but couldn't make heads or tails of it
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demis it would be great if rel="me" was automatically added when the link is generated
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benwerd It is
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benwerd but in the profile block
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benwerd demis: sent you the plugin & other info
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demis benwerd: awesome thanks!
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sandeepshetty !tell barnabywalters: See the comment I added to that issue. It looks like "1.3.*@stable" is resulting in composer downloading 1.3 of webignition/absolute-url-deriver instead of the latest version which is 1.3.4.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@mjohnq3 RT @t: Why not to post (on Medium)²:
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@joshwnj go #indieweb go!
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