#indiewebcamp 2013-08-05

2013-08-05 UTC
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aaronparecki.com created /website-analytics (+462) "stub, feel free to expand and add yourself" (view diff)
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pdurbin melvster: I'm curious what you'll use for self hosted analytics
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Loqi 1 files modified in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/40c83f79b32d...3cf4b43209f3
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Loqi aaronpk: use /verify endpoint instead
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melvster pdurbin: dont know yet, id need to research the options
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aaronpk melvster: I tried out piwik at one point, and benwerd uses it
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melvster thanks
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pdurbin looks at... Free Web Analytics Software - Analytics - Piwik - http://piwik.org
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+466) "/* Itching */ self-hosted scrobbling" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+54) "add www-authenticate header" (view diff)
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aaronpk ooh I think I can write a chrome extension to handle the www-authenticate response http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging
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aaronpk oh this is fun, with distributed-indieauth and indieweb-messaging in place, it's not a huge step to combine them and build a debt ledger between people
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pdurbin I/O U ;)
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pdurbin is listening to an interview with evanp about pump.io: http://notapodcast.co.uk/post/57337280889/9-the-prince-of-aberystwyth
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aaronpk u.io
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aaronpk and now my brain is going faster than my note-taking and implementation
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christopheducamp.com edited /website-analytics (-5) "/* Piwik */ User:Werd.io" (view diff)
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aaronpk this indieweb messaging mechanism actually translates to semi-private sharing of posts quite nicely as well
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neuro` Good morning (UGT) #indiewebcampers
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aaronpk good morning
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aaronpk is heading to bed in a few minutes, trying to launch this fancy new thing first :)
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neuro` I wish I was still in bed
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+521) "/* Bob is not at his computer */ add instructions for getting a token without completing auth" (view diff)
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tantek reads-up on indieweb-messaging
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aaronpk tantek: when you do, you have a message waiting :D http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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aaronpk note the fallback to an HTML login form, which should actually work right now
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aaronpk !tell eschnou,barnabywalters,benwerd you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske aaronpk, does indieauth support <link rel="me"> now?
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aaronpk no not yet
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aaronpk I will update the github issue when it does https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/15
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neuro` aaronpk: I have a 3 hours train trip tonight. If my MacBook Pro keyboard is kind enough to work, I'll do this one.
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aaronpk sweet!
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neuro` There's if: the bottom line of my keyboard works when it wants so I need to plug a keyboard to work :/
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aaronpk heh
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neuro` And my Airport is no longer detected either, I hope they'll be able to do something at Apple.
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aaronpk alright i'm out. goodnight!
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Loqi sleep tight!
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neuro` Good night aaronpk
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Loqi eschnou: bret left you a message 9 hours, 26 minutes ago: Firefox beta has become really aggressive about http embeds on https pages, looks like quite a few things are not showing up on your page due to this new policy.
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Loqi eschnou: aaronpk left you a message 21 minutes ago: you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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eschnou !tell aaronpk, I can't login, indieauth is broken for me due to my site in https, although I do link to https site from twitter/github. Need to debug this with you when online.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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eschnou !tell bret, I know need to force https on external stuff I embed, although not always possible (e.g. avatar of users having sent a webmention).
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Jihaisse hello
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@eschnou Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@pfefferle RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@DrFry RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@mattsches RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@alipasha cc @calibanatspace “@eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb”
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@virer_dot_net RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@raphdg RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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aaronpk eschnou: crap right, it's because your cert authority is not recognized by my server
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Loqi aaronpk: eschnou left you a message 7 hours, 29 minutes ago: I can't login, indieauth is broken for me due to my site in https, although I do link to https site from twitter/github. Need to debug this with you when online.
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eschnou aaronpk, I'm not sure, I wonder if you are not caching something somewhere... it complains that I link to http in my twitter/github profile, wich was true, but I have since then updated to https, it seems it didn't refresh that.
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cweiske "COMODO CA Limited"
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cweiske wasn't that the one that got compromised
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cweiske ?
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eschnou aaronpk, Insecure redirect error. http redirected to https. To fix, link to https://eschnou.com/ directly.
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eschnou file: relparser.rb
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eschnou location: load_page
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eschnou line: 66
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aaronpk ah yea there's a cache as well. but i'm guessing if you hit "re-scan" it fails to retrieve naything?
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cweiske no, that was diginotar
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eschnou aaronpk, ha! I had not seen the rescan button, was just pressing reload :-)
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eschnou aaronpk, but yrah, now that I did click rescan... it is stuck at about 5% progress
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aaronpk oh and also you need to log in as https://eschnou.com explicitly now, not just eschnou.com
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eschnou aaronpk, better :-) I got all the way to twitter auth but now i have a whitepage on your site once redirected
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aaronpk on aaronparecki.com?
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eschnou yes, signin.php?...
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aaronpk oh strange... let me check
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aaronpk at least indieauth is workign now!
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eschnou I got to go, will be back later tonight, happy to help debug more if needed
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aaronpk ok cool!
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aaronpk ah fixed it crap
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@NotOnTwtr RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 10 hours ago: you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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aaronpk and yes I realize the irony of the slug partially revealing the contents of the message :)
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benwerd aaronpk: :) it's awesome though. alas, once I log in, it WSODs for me
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aaronpk oh no stil??
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benwerd aaronpk: also, I was just pinged separately about this, which attempts to be a PHP port of pingback.me: https://github.com/mapkyca/pingback2hook
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk huh weird, I don't see an exception on my site
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aaronpk benwerd: you're logging in as http://werd.io, not https://werd.io right?
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benwerd it's on the http://aaronparecki.com/signin.php?redirect... page
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benwerd correct
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aaronpk benwerd: huh for some reason it wasn't able to verify the login with indieauth.com
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aaronpk adding a better error message for that :)
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aaronpk benwerd: can you try logging in again?
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benwerd sure
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benwerd "Was not able to verify the IndieAuth login"
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aaronpk *blink blink*
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benwerd OK, SMS worked
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benwerd GitHub failed
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aaronpk ok that doesn't make sense
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benwerd I don't think I'm going to be able to get auth headers working by the demo, but man, you can bet I will be before too long
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tantek aaronpk - hmm - I got "Was not able to verify the IndieAuth login"
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tantek using twitter for indieauth
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aaronpk is this a problem with aaronparecki.com or with indieauth? can you try signing in to the wiki or to indieauth.com with twitter?
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aaronpk oh good at least I can make it fail logging in with github for myself
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tantek signing into indiewebcamp.com with indieauth via twitter worked
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aaronpk ohhh I know... my bad
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tantek btw I'm working on getting space at Mozilla for the IndieWebCampSF Hack Day tomorrow 13:00-17:00
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benwerd Cool! I'm being drilled at midday but will be along after that. Don't ask me to eat anything. (Also, I've always wanted to visit Mozilla SF.)
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tantek benwerd - good luck with the drilling - when do you finish up?
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benwerd hopefully quickly! I don't really know.
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benwerd I imagine I'll be able to come in by around 2:30
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bret I get in at 8:10 :[
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bret (am)
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Loqi bret: eschnou left you a message 10 hours, 1 minute ago: I know need to force https on external stuff I embed, although not always possible (e.g. avatar of users having sent a webmention).
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aaronpk benwerd: ok I think I fixed it
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benwerd aaronpk: confirmed. Nice work!
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aaronpk *whew* thx
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aaronpk was pre-emptively adding something for distributed indieauth
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benwerd :)
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tantek bret - I believe I can get you into the Mozilla SF common space in the morning if you want to just hang out
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tantek feel free to add details to the wiki page (when you get in, which airport etc.)
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bret Ill probably take bart over and try to get in
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@wadimkr RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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bret however long that takes… maybe by 10 or so?
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tantek bret - flying into OAK?
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tantek fortunately BART is running
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bret o.0 it wasn't runnig?
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bret tantek: no SFO
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tantek strike almost happened today.
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tantek the governor intervened
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bret tikes
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bret yikes*
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bret ill be staying with my sister in Mill Valley in between days
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aaronpk do we have an event page on the wiki for this?
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bret aaronpk: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-08-06-hack-day
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aaronpk oh cool
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bret I tried to syndicate that page to news.indiewebcamp
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bret It didn't accept the webmention
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aaronpk I don't see a link from that page to indienews
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bret I removed it when it didn't work
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk strange then
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=events/2013-08-06-hack-day&curid=873&diff=4248&oldid=4247
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aaronpk let me try
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aaronpk ah I htink it needs u-syndication
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tantek and it's official on the Mozilla status for this week: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2013-08-05#Tuesday.2C_06_August
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bret whoops i just did syndication
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aaronpk oh... i see
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bret tantek: do I just walk in and tell someone I am there for that? just hang out in the lobby?
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aaronpk i think indienews assumes there's an h-entry. that is probably not what it should do.
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jihaisse_ hi
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bret hi jihaisse_
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aaronpk oh well the page is already an h-event so it should work
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bret and I think I got the syndication inside that
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2013-08-06-hack-day (+277) "add my rsvp and syndication link to indienews" (view diff)
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aaronpk there we go http://news.indiewebcamp.com/post/indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-08-06-hack-day
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bret sweet :) aaronpk what was wrong?
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aaronpk needed u-syndication
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bret ok
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tantek now being announced in the Mozilla all hands meeting
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tantek #airmozilla on irc.mozilla.org if anyone's curious
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aaronpk sweet, I just got to check out the new mozilla portland office, but haven't seen the SF one yet!
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tantek I haven't seen the mozpdx office yet!
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aaronpk it's really nice!
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aaronpk do g+ photos not have permalinks?!
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tantek not as far as I can tell :(
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aaronpk fine, https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zhjn-TrU2LM/UfgvxlA5WeI/AAAAAAAAAgc/3ZZY9NIysIE/w1085-h797-no/20130730_142645_973.jpg
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aaronpk from amber's glass :)
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tantek yeah I grabbed JPGs also
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tantek URLs that is
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tantek e.g. for the SFHTML5 talk
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tantek whoa nice office!
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aaronpk they put a loooot of money into it!
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aaronpk it's one of the most expensive office spaces to rent in portland per square foot
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tantek glad to hear we're taking good care of Portland Mozillans!
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aaronpk yeah! I hear a lot of people who were remote in the area (~300 mile radius) are thinking about moving to portland now!
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tantek that's good!
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aaronpk good for increasing home values too :)
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tantek dick hardt shared this with me but I'm pretty sure he'd be ok with me sharing it with the channel: http://www.roxie.com/events/details.cfm?eventID=7F924A31-DB9F-B680-9D9C5096A9FDD8C6
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bret With a pre-screening of that iCentipad south park right before :)
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bret I would see that
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bret reminds me of http://tosdr.org
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tantek yeah
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ozten Sounds like an exciting week!
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tantek ozten - we'll be here in the channel the whole time!
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ozten looking forward to it
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@brennannovak @benwerd thanks for backing #Mailpile i've seen your name in IndieWebCamp for awhile- we definitely want to make MP play nice with IW sites
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@benwerd @brennannovak Also, re: #indieweb in particular, I have some use cases that really need an extensible self-hosted email client.
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bret I wonder how hard MP is going to be to set up. Email server seem difficult.
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tantek this is brilliant: http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/06/why-we-dont-sell-ads/
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tantek thinking it has some good material for our business-models page
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+101) "consider avoiding advertising on the indieweb" (view diff)
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aaronpk bret: I think ease of install is one of the things they're focusing on
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bret sweet
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benwerd That is really very cool indeed
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benwerd very forward-thinking statement
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benwerd are any of you on whatsapp?
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bret now if only whatsapp could close all their security holes
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bnvk benwerd: I am
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aaronpk I think I have an account but I don't use it
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bnvk bret: our goal (ambitious, yes) is to make #mailpile quite easy- think one click desktop installer style. But, at first it will only be a mail client not a full on server!
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bret right on
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aaronpk i like the idea of it also being the mail server tho. or at least it would go install postfix for you
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aaronpk oh cool, eschnou's post is on hackernews! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6159701
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tantek I think the #1 competitive problem with mail is coming up with automatic spam filtering better than gmail. from what I can tell - no one else is even close.
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aaronpk also, this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6160323 "Would someone please invent or do a kickstarter project for an "email server in a box" project. A plug and play email server with webmail, TLS, etc? Maybe running the whole thing on a pi that you just plug in to your home network so you can host your own mail?"
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benwerd I like the idea of choice, too - being able to point it at an IMAP server somewhere. tantek is right on about spam though
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benwerd maybe scope for an akismet-like service?
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aaronpk tantek: yes totally agree. that's ultimately why I'm using gmail. i have all my domains forward to my gmail account which I don't give out the address to
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eschnou aaronpk, yeah :-)
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aaronpk benwerd: the problem with an anti-spam service is it would involve sending all your mail through it :) kind of defeats the purpose of self-hosting email
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benwerd true true true
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eschnou wrt email, the main issue I ever had hosting it myself was outbound, not inbound. Receiving email is easy, but sending emails and not being treated as spam is really hard (MX, SPF, etc etc)
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aaronpk eschnou: also good point
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aaronpk yes, email is hard.
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tantek My approach is to move more things off of email
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benwerd +1 to that
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tantek and only use email for legacy organizations
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tantek similar to: only use fax machines for legacy organizations
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tantek brb
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benwerd makes the indieweb messaging work really interesting, aaronpk
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aaronpk benwerd: totally! I'm excited for someone else to take a stab at it next!
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benwerd You will not be able to keep me away
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benwerd My bandwidth is a little limited this month, because I'm in earning-direct-money mode out of necessity
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benwerd which means idno is suffering a little
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benwerd but I will get it in there.
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aaronpk understanable tho
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tantek is reading https://eschnou.com/entry/implementing-prism-break-62-25013.html
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tantek benwerd - exactly
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tantek people use SMS / FB messaging as higher priority (more signal to noise) than email anyway
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tantek email is something you use for work
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aaronpk we're trying to wean people off of email at work too :)
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aaronpk in favor of communicating on github
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tantek indeed, anything about a project should be in a project specific space, whether github or a wiki
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tantek aaronpk - github is not very mobile friendly
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aaronpk doesn't matter for work :) everyone's on their computers
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tantek aaronpk, I was able to read: http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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tantek :)
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aaronpk excellent!
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aaronpk if you look closely you'll see a www-authenticate header when you make the first unauthenticated request, but I made it "fall back" to support browser logins so you can also auth through that form that's displayed
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benwerd token-based auth is going to be such a big deal. suddenly you get to have per-item access permissions
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benwerd across the web
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aaronpk so as I was implementing this, I realized that indieauth is basically the first step of OAuth, where you get the authorization_code. the indieauth token isn't an access token.
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aaronpk so it's still up to the service to implement its own auth scheme after getting the indieauth token
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benwerd good!
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aaronpk that's why the browser login works on my site, because after you pass in the indieauth token, the response has a Set-Cookie header with a php session ID
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aaronpk i'm wondering if we should make that explicit in the indieauth spec
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tantek there's an indieauth spec?
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tantek aaronpk - or do you mean relmeauth?
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aaronpk no, indieauth
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aaronpk it's not written to look like a spec yet, but there's enough there that it could be now
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tantek or is this the indieauth federation piece built on top?
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tantek that would be great
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aaronpk the spec would be more like federated relmeauth
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tantek totally fine if you want to call that indieauth
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aaronpk basically a way to delegate the actual OAuth dance to another service
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tantek brb
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aaronpk although interestingly, once it's set up it doesn't even technically need to use rel-me at all, assuming you are your own indieauth provider
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benwerd (also good)
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tantek aaronpk - another reason to name it indieauth and make it its own thing
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aaronpk good point
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tantek maybe just reference or incorporate relmeauth as previous work
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aaronpk well the relmeauth part of it is still core to it, and certainly required if you aren't implementing your own indieauth server
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tantek sure. I'm just saying however you want to reference/incorporate is totally fine by me.
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aaronpk cool
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tantek space booked @MozSF tomorrow from 13:00-18:00
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-08-06-hack-day (+196) "note specific time, place" (view diff)
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bnvk aaronpk: tantek: yah, we Mailpilers definitely need to figure out how to handle spam in some clever ways and we're really into the idea plug & play Rasberi Pi type mailserver idea
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bnvk Bjarni's already got a lot of stable code & infrastructure made that does SSH tunneling to handle edge of network issues
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bnvk so hopefully we'll be able to do some neat experimental stuff :)
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message on 8/5 at 12:00am: you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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barnabywalters aaronpk: lookin good! The indieweb-messaging spec is looking pretty great.
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aaronpk thanks!
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barnabywalters I would contend the “first” claim (I implemented indieauth-protected notes ages ago) but a) it’s no longer live and b) it didn’t have threading, so you’re way ahead of me :)
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aaronpk well, it's also a bit pre-emptive of a claim given that nobody else has yet sent me a response so it isn't actually a thread yet :)
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barnabywalters I’ve been either sick or busy entertaining my family for the past week — I skimmed the logs, but has anything super exciting happened? other than distributed-indieauth and indieweb-messaging?
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aaronpk lots of anticipation for the event this week with hacking at mozilla tomorrow!
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barnabywalters oh yeah the social web thingie where you’re going to blow everyone away with amazing demos of stuff which actually works! hope it goes well
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barnabywalters is there a live feed of any sort? etherpad?
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aaronpk not sure!
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barnabywalters anyone else checked out http://noflojs.org?
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barnabywalters I’m all for ditching the whole programming == lots and lots of huge blogs of text thing, and their UI comps look nice
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barnabywalters it’s unclear about whether or not they have a lot of the abstraction and debugging tools I want to have in a spatial programming environment
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tantek yes let's create an etherpad for the w3c socialweb thing
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tantek the explicit hashtag for the event is #osfw3c
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tantek according to http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/agenda.html
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aaronpk good, i'm sure i'll remember that on wednesday
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tantek so here you go: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/osfw3c
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tantek hello indiewebcamp-vis, go ahead and use /nick to change your username!
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voidfiles If I wanted to create an activity streams feed based on the latest and greater spec where is the best place to find it?
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voidfiles Is this still a good resource http://indiewebcamp.com/activitystreams?