#indiewebcamp 2013-08-05

2013-08-05 UTC
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aaronparecki.com
created /website-analytics (+462) "stub, feel free to expand and add yourself"
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pdurbin
melvster: I'm curious what you'll use for self hosted analytics
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Loqi
1 files modified in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/40c83f79b32d...3cf4b43209f3
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Loqi
aaronpk: use /verify endpoint instead
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melvster
pdurbin: dont know yet, id need to research the options
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aaronpk
melvster: I tried out piwik at one point, and benwerd uses it
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pdurbin
looks at... Free Web Analytics Software - Analytics - Piwik - http://piwik.org
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aaronparecki.com
edited /p3k (+466) "/* Itching */ self-hosted scrobbling"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /indieweb-messaging (+54) "add www-authenticate header"
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aaronpk
ooh I think I can write a chrome extension to handle the www-authenticate response http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging
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aaronpk
oh this is fun, with distributed-indieauth and indieweb-messaging in place, it's not a huge step to combine them and build a debt ledger between people
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pdurbin
I/O U ;)
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pdurbin
is listening to an interview with evanp about pump.io: http://notapodcast.co.uk/post/57337280889/9-the-prince-of-aberystwyth
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aaronpk
and now my brain is going faster than my note-taking and implementation
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christopheducamp.com
edited /website-analytics (-5) "/* Piwik */ User:Werd.io"
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aaronpk
this indieweb messaging mechanism actually translates to semi-private sharing of posts quite nicely as well
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neuro`
Good morning (UGT) #indiewebcampers
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aaronpk
good morning
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aaronpk
is heading to bed in a few minutes, trying to launch this fancy new thing first :)
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neuro`
I wish I was still in bed
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aaronparecki.com
edited /indieweb-messaging (+521) "/* Bob is not at his computer */ add instructions for getting a token without completing auth"
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tantek
reads-up on indieweb-messaging
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aaronpk
note the fallback to an HTML login form, which should actually work right now
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aaronpk
!tell eschnou,barnabywalters,benwerd you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske
aaronpk, does indieauth support <link rel="me"> now?
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aaronpk
no not yet
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aaronpk
I will update the github issue when it does https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/15
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neuro`
aaronpk: I have a 3 hours train trip tonight. If my MacBook Pro keyboard is kind enough to work, I'll do this one.
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aaronpk
sweet!
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neuro`
There's if: the bottom line of my keyboard works when it wants so I need to plug a keyboard to work :/
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neuro`
And my Airport is no longer detected either, I hope they'll be able to do something at Apple.
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aaronpk
alright i'm out. goodnight!
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Loqi
sleep tight!
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neuro`
Good night aaronpk
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Loqi
eschnou: bret left you a message 9 hours, 26 minutes ago: Firefox beta has become really aggressive about http embeds on https pages, looks like quite a few things are not showing up on your page due to this new policy.
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Loqi
eschnou: aaronpk left you a message 21 minutes ago: you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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eschnou
!tell aaronpk, I can't login, indieauth is broken for me due to my site in https, although I do link to https site from twitter/github. Need to debug this with you when online.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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eschnou
!tell bret, I know need to force https on external stuff I embed, although not always possible (e.g. avatar of users having sent a webmention).
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@eschnou
Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@pfefferle
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@DrFry
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@mattsches
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@alipasha
cc @calibanatspace@eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb”
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@virer_dot_net
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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@raphdg
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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aaronpk
eschnou: crap right, it's because your cert authority is not recognized by my server
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Loqi
aaronpk: eschnou left you a message 7 hours, 29 minutes ago: I can't login, indieauth is broken for me due to my site in https, although I do link to https site from twitter/github. Need to debug this with you when online.
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eschnou
aaronpk, I'm not sure, I wonder if you are not caching something somewhere... it complains that I link to http in my twitter/github profile, wich was true, but I have since then updated to https, it seems it didn't refresh that.
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cweiske
"COMODO CA Limited"
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cweiske
wasn't that the one that got compromised
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eschnou
aaronpk, Insecure redirect error. http redirected to https. To fix, link to https://eschnou.com/ directly.
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eschnou
file: relparser.rb
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eschnou
location: load_page
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eschnou
line: 66
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aaronpk
ah yea there's a cache as well. but i'm guessing if you hit "re-scan" it fails to retrieve naything?
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cweiske
no, that was diginotar
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eschnou
aaronpk, ha! I had not seen the rescan button, was just pressing reload :-)
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eschnou
aaronpk, but yrah, now that I did click rescan... it is stuck at about 5% progress
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aaronpk
oh and also you need to log in as https://eschnou.com explicitly now, not just eschnou.com
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eschnou
aaronpk, better :-) I got all the way to twitter auth but now i have a whitepage on your site once redirected
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aaronpk
on aaronparecki.com?
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eschnou
yes, signin.php?...
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aaronpk
oh strange... let me check
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aaronpk
at least indieauth is workign now!
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eschnou
I got to go, will be back later tonight, happy to help debug more if needed
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aaronpk
ok cool!
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aaronpk
ah fixed it crap
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@NotOnTwtr
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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Loqi
benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 10 hours ago: you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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aaronpk
and yes I realize the irony of the slug partially revealing the contents of the message :)
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benwerd
aaronpk: :) it's awesome though. alas, once I log in, it WSODs for me
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aaronpk
oh no stil??
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benwerd
aaronpk: also, I was just pinged separately about this, which attempts to be a PHP port of pingback.me: https://github.com/mapkyca/pingback2hook
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aaronpk
huh weird, I don't see an exception on my site
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aaronpk
benwerd: you're logging in as http://werd.io, not https://werd.io right?
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benwerd
correct
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aaronpk
benwerd: huh for some reason it wasn't able to verify the login with indieauth.com
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aaronpk
adding a better error message for that :)
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aaronpk
benwerd: can you try logging in again?
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benwerd
"Was not able to verify the IndieAuth login"
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aaronpk
*blink blink*
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benwerd
OK, SMS worked
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benwerd
GitHub failed
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aaronpk
ok that doesn't make sense
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benwerd
I don't think I'm going to be able to get auth headers working by the demo, but man, you can bet I will be before too long
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tantek
aaronpk - hmm - I got "Was not able to verify the IndieAuth login"
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tantek
using twitter for indieauth
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aaronpk
is this a problem with aaronparecki.com or with indieauth? can you try signing in to the wiki or to indieauth.com with twitter?
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aaronpk
oh good at least I can make it fail logging in with github for myself
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tantek
signing into indiewebcamp.com with indieauth via twitter worked
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aaronpk
ohhh I know... my bad
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tantek
btw I'm working on getting space at Mozilla for the IndieWebCampSF Hack Day tomorrow 13:00-17:00
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benwerd
Cool! I'm being drilled at midday but will be along after that. Don't ask me to eat anything. (Also, I've always wanted to visit Mozilla SF.)
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tantek
benwerd - good luck with the drilling - when do you finish up?
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benwerd
hopefully quickly! I don't really know.
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benwerd
I imagine I'll be able to come in by around 2:30
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bret
I get in at 8:10 :[
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bret
(am)
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Loqi
bret: eschnou left you a message 10 hours, 1 minute ago: I know need to force https on external stuff I embed, although not always possible (e.g. avatar of users having sent a webmention).
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aaronpk
benwerd: ok I think I fixed it
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benwerd
aaronpk: confirmed. Nice work!
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aaronpk
*whew* thx
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aaronpk
was pre-emptively adding something for distributed indieauth
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tantek
bret - I believe I can get you into the Mozilla SF common space in the morning if you want to just hang out
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tantek
feel free to add details to the wiki page (when you get in, which airport etc.)
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bret
Ill probably take bart over and try to get in
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@wadimkr
RT @eschnou: Blogged about: Implementing "Prism Break" https://eschnou.com/s/0w8J #indieweb
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bret
however long that takes… maybe by 10 or so?
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tantek
bret - flying into OAK?
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tantek
fortunately BART is running
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bret
o.0 it wasn't runnig?
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bret
tantek: no SFO
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tantek
strike almost happened today.
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tantek
the governor intervened
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bret
tikes
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bret
yikes*
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bret
ill be staying with my sister in Mill Valley in between days
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aaronpk
do we have an event page on the wiki for this?
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aaronpk
oh cool
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bret
I tried to syndicate that page to news.indiewebcamp
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bret
It didn't accept the webmention
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aaronpk
I don't see a link from that page to indienews
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bret
I removed it when it didn't work
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aaronpk
strange then
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aaronpk
let me try
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aaronpk
ah I htink it needs u-syndication
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tantek
and it's official on the Mozilla status for this week: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2013-08-05#Tuesday.2C_06_August
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bret
whoops i just did syndication
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aaronpk
oh... i see
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bret
tantek: do I just walk in and tell someone I am there for that? just hang out in the lobby?
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aaronpk
i think indienews assumes there's an h-entry. that is probably not what it should do.
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bret
hi jihaisse_
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aaronpk
oh well the page is already an h-event so it should work
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bret
and I think I got the syndication inside that
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2013-08-06-hack-day (+277) "add my rsvp and syndication link to indienews"
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bret
sweet :) aaronpk what was wrong?
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aaronpk
needed u-syndication
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tantek
now being announced in the Mozilla all hands meeting
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tantek
#airmozilla on irc.mozilla.org if anyone's curious
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aaronpk
sweet, I just got to check out the new mozilla portland office, but haven't seen the SF one yet!
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tantek
I haven't seen the mozpdx office yet!
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aaronpk
it's really nice!
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aaronpk
do g+ photos not have permalinks?!
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tantek
not as far as I can tell :(
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aaronpk
from amber's glass :)
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tantek
yeah I grabbed JPGs also
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tantek
URLs that is
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tantek
e.g. for the SFHTML5 talk
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tantek
whoa nice office!
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aaronpk
they put a loooot of money into it!
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aaronpk
it's one of the most expensive office spaces to rent in portland per square foot
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tantek
glad to hear we're taking good care of Portland Mozillans!
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aaronpk
yeah! I hear a lot of people who were remote in the area (~300 mile radius) are thinking about moving to portland now!
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tantek
that's good!
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aaronpk
good for increasing home values too :)
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tantek
dick hardt shared this with me but I'm pretty sure he'd be ok with me sharing it with the channel: http://www.roxie.com/events/details.cfm?eventID=7F924A31-DB9F-B680-9D9C5096A9FDD8C6
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bret
With a pre-screening of that iCentipad south park right before :)
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bret
I would see that
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ozten
Sounds like an exciting week!
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tantek
ozten - we'll be here in the channel the whole time!
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ozten
looking forward to it
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@brennannovak
@benwerd thanks for backing #Mailpile i've seen your name in IndieWebCamp for awhile- we definitely want to make MP play nice with IW sites
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@benwerd
@brennannovak Also, re: #indieweb in particular, I have some use cases that really need an extensible self-hosted email client.
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bret
I wonder how hard MP is going to be to set up. Email server seem difficult.
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tantek
thinking it has some good material for our business-models page
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tantek.com
edited /business-models (+101) "consider avoiding advertising on the indieweb"
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aaronpk
bret: I think ease of install is one of the things they're focusing on
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bret
sweet
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benwerd
That is really very cool indeed
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benwerd
very forward-thinking statement
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benwerd
are any of you on whatsapp?
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bret
now if only whatsapp could close all their security holes
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bnvk
benwerd: I am
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aaronpk
I think I have an account but I don't use it
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bnvk
bret: our goal (ambitious, yes) is to make #mailpile quite easy- think one click desktop installer style. But, at first it will only be a mail client not a full on server!
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bret
right on
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aaronpk
i like the idea of it also being the mail server tho. or at least it would go install postfix for you
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aaronpk
oh cool, eschnou's post is on hackernews! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6159701
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tantek
I think the #1 competitive problem with mail is coming up with automatic spam filtering better than gmail. from what I can tell - no one else is even close.
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aaronpk
also, this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6160323 "Would someone please invent or do a kickstarter project for an "email server in a box" project. A plug and play email server with webmail, TLS, etc? Maybe running the whole thing on a pi that you just plug in to your home network so you can host your own mail?"
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benwerd
I like the idea of choice, too - being able to point it at an IMAP server somewhere. tantek is right on about spam though
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benwerd
maybe scope for an akismet-like service?
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aaronpk
tantek: yes totally agree. that's ultimately why I'm using gmail. i have all my domains forward to my gmail account which I don't give out the address to
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eschnou
aaronpk, yeah :-)
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aaronpk
benwerd: the problem with an anti-spam service is it would involve sending all your mail through it :) kind of defeats the purpose of self-hosting email
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benwerd
true true true
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eschnou
wrt email, the main issue I ever had hosting it myself was outbound, not inbound. Receiving email is easy, but sending emails and not being treated as spam is really hard (MX, SPF, etc etc)
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aaronpk
eschnou: also good point
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aaronpk
yes, email is hard.
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tantek
My approach is to move more things off of email
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benwerd
+1 to that
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tantek
and only use email for legacy organizations
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tantek
similar to: only use fax machines for legacy organizations
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benwerd
makes the indieweb messaging work really interesting, aaronpk
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aaronpk
benwerd: totally! I'm excited for someone else to take a stab at it next!
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benwerd
You will not be able to keep me away
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benwerd
My bandwidth is a little limited this month, because I'm in earning-direct-money mode out of necessity
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benwerd
which means idno is suffering a little
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benwerd
but I will get it in there.
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aaronpk
understanable tho
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tantek
benwerd - exactly
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tantek
people use SMS / FB messaging as higher priority (more signal to noise) than email anyway
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tantek
email is something you use for work
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aaronpk
we're trying to wean people off of email at work too :)
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aaronpk
in favor of communicating on github
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tantek
indeed, anything about a project should be in a project specific space, whether github or a wiki
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tantek
aaronpk - github is not very mobile friendly
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aaronpk
doesn't matter for work :) everyone's on their computers
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aaronpk
excellent!
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aaronpk
if you look closely you'll see a www-authenticate header when you make the first unauthenticated request, but I made it "fall back" to support browser logins so you can also auth through that form that's displayed
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benwerd
token-based auth is going to be such a big deal. suddenly you get to have per-item access permissions
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benwerd
across the web
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aaronpk
so as I was implementing this, I realized that indieauth is basically the first step of OAuth, where you get the authorization_code. the indieauth token isn't an access token.
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aaronpk
so it's still up to the service to implement its own auth scheme after getting the indieauth token
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aaronpk
that's why the browser login works on my site, because after you pass in the indieauth token, the response has a Set-Cookie header with a php session ID
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aaronpk
i'm wondering if we should make that explicit in the indieauth spec
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tantek
there's an indieauth spec?
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tantek
aaronpk - or do you mean relmeauth?
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aaronpk
no, indieauth
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aaronpk
it's not written to look like a spec yet, but there's enough there that it could be now
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tantek
or is this the indieauth federation piece built on top?
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tantek
that would be great
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aaronpk
the spec would be more like federated relmeauth
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tantek
totally fine if you want to call that indieauth
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aaronpk
basically a way to delegate the actual OAuth dance to another service
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aaronpk
although interestingly, once it's set up it doesn't even technically need to use rel-me at all, assuming you are your own indieauth provider
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benwerd
(also good)
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tantek
aaronpk - another reason to name it indieauth and make it its own thing
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aaronpk
good point
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tantek
maybe just reference or incorporate relmeauth as previous work
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aaronpk
well the relmeauth part of it is still core to it, and certainly required if you aren't implementing your own indieauth server
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tantek
sure. I'm just saying however you want to reference/incorporate is totally fine by me.
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tantek
space booked @MozSF tomorrow from 13:00-18:00
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tantek.com
edited /events/2013-08-06-hack-day (+196) "note specific time, place"
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bnvk
aaronpk: tantek: yah, we Mailpilers definitely need to figure out how to handle spam in some clever ways and we're really into the idea plug & play Rasberi Pi type mailserver idea
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bnvk
Bjarni's already got a lot of stable code & infrastructure made that does SSH tunneling to handle edge of network issues
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bnvk
so hopefully we'll be able to do some neat experimental stuff :)
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Loqi
barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message on 8/5 at 12:00am: you have a message waiting! http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: lookin good! The indieweb-messaging spec is looking pretty great.
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aaronpk
thanks!
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barnabywalters
I would contend the “first” claim (I implemented indieauth-protected notes ages ago) but a) it’s no longer live and b) it didn’t have threading, so you’re way ahead of me :)
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aaronpk
well, it's also a bit pre-emptive of a claim given that nobody else has yet sent me a response so it isn't actually a thread yet :)
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barnabywalters
I’ve been either sick or busy entertaining my family for the past week — I skimmed the logs, but has anything super exciting happened? other than distributed-indieauth and indieweb-messaging?
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aaronpk
lots of anticipation for the event this week with hacking at mozilla tomorrow!
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barnabywalters
oh yeah the social web thingie where you’re going to blow everyone away with amazing demos of stuff which actually works! hope it goes well
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barnabywalters
is there a live feed of any sort? etherpad?
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aaronpk
not sure!
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barnabywalters
anyone else checked out http://noflojs.org?
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barnabywalters
I’m all for ditching the whole programming == lots and lots of huge blogs of text thing, and their UI comps look nice
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barnabywalters
it’s unclear about whether or not they have a lot of the abstraction and debugging tools I want to have in a spatial programming environment
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tantek
yes let's create an etherpad for the w3c socialweb thing
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tantek
the explicit hashtag for the event is #osfw3c
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aaronpk
good, i'm sure i'll remember that on wednesday
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tantek
hello indiewebcamp-vis, go ahead and use /nick to change your username!
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voidfiles
If I wanted to create an activity streams feed based on the latest and greater spec where is the best place to find it?
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voidfiles
Is this still a good resource http://indiewebcamp.com/activitystreams?