#indiewebcamp 2013-08-20

2013-08-20 UTC
earplugs and erlehmann joined the channel
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erlehmann hlllo indieweb
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erlehmann aaronpk, tantek, i worked on my uncomplicated web test case
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erlehmann here is my first attempt http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/src/uncomplicated_web_tests.py
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erlehmann and this is what it outputs for google http://mister-muffin.de/p/ZChm.txt
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Loqi [@npdoty] @anildash I hear confusion over "app" which implies self-containment
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Loqi #indieweb software (like the Web itself) works best by interoperating. (http://twtr.io/bfZz7c9UEw)
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erlehmann anil “i use facebook comments to show i am not an extremist” dash
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erlehmann :3c
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tantek aaronpk - I've written a blog post summary of all the Twitter Related headlines questions I asked above (and a few more)
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npdoty anil's response to me: "@npdoty that I understand, but I'm interested in the domain of apps here."
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erlehmann tantek, apart ffrom the fact that it looks like unit tests (because it is), does a simple yes/no suffice for such tests?
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/anildash/status/369610969955442689
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@anildash @npdoty that I understand, but I'm interested in the domain of apps here.
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tantek erlehmann - yes, it's good to start with a simple yes/no for any kind of validator/test service
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tantek and a simple form where you can put in a URL and it tells you what the results are
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erlehmann transfer size is going through the roof
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tantek like http://validator.w3.org/
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erlehmann tantek, currently i only have this script. but i'll make it a web service
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erlehmann as soon as i am done with the tests.
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tantek why wait to be "done" ? why not start with a few and iterate?
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erlehmann i wonder what anil dash means with ”žinferiour“ clone
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tantek it's ok to be incomplete, to be imperfect :)
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erlehmann because i wrote this in the last two hours. and i want to go to sleep
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erlehmann and i already have a list of criteria to test.
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cldstr Hi everybody, taking the liberty to invite everybody to our next Personal Clouds gathering on Thursday in SF. http://personalclouds-ec2.eventbrite.com/ Continuing the discussion from IndieWebCamp on an "indie box".
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erlehmann also, a friend of mine wants to adopt the uncomplicated web design criteria for her web development process.
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erlehmann so having a command line validator that has more tests is more useful than having a web version that has less tests.
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erlehmann http://indieweb.com fails some tests
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erlehmann funny
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erlehmann who of you runs that site?
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erlehmann here is the output http://mister-muffin.de/p/PhiA.txt
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tantek no idea about indieweb.com
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erlehmann FAIL: test_transfer_size (__main__.LoadingTestCase)
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erlehmann AssertionError: 100418 not less than or equal to 20000
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erlehmann trololol
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aaronpk indieweb.com is a parked godaddy page...
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erlehmann let me find what makes this website so bloaty
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erlehmann err
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erlehmann i meant http://indiewebcamp.com
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erlehmann sorry
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aaronpk oh yea, it's a bit of a beast (mediawiki)
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erlehmann more like, jquery
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erlehmann in my circle of friends there is a line of jokes starting with ”žjust use jquery“, ”žjust use wordpress“, ”žjust use bootstrap“, ”žjust use mediawiki“
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erlehmann :3c
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erlehmann disclaimer: i wrote php code for monies, so i am allowed to make those jokes!
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erlehmann regarding anil dash, i found that my hipster news microblog is way superiour to twitter. for example, i do not get spam followers (since i don't care about who reads the feed) and can post more than 140 characters
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erlehmann i have used twitter and more than 50% of the people i know could built a better web page
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erlehmann i suspect the mobile apps do it for the service
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erlehmann they must be good (i have not tested)
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erlehmann with instagram i saw that. the website is abysmal, but everyone apparently uses the app.
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erlehmann (i don't)
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erlehmann aaronpk, do you know why http://indiewebcamp.com fails the user agent sniffing test?
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erlehmann https://mobile.twitter.com/nodrama_de/status/369615932878237697?p=v
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erlehmann > @anildash MediaWiki, WordPress, EtherPad, OpenStreetMap, LiveJournal, Mister Muffin Pastebin, Hipster News.
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erlehmann hehe
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rknLA cldstr: that looks cool.
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@crowd42 RT @comzeradd: Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/369616442410270720)
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rknLA i'm a bit confused by the "RSVP + contribution for food" though..
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cldstr rknLA: it's a community event, and we like to have some drinks and food, so we are asking for donations (but they are entirely voluntary)
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rknLA interesting. seems like a strange approach without context in the description.
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rknLA like, i don't mind contributing, but i have no idea how much to contribute,
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@veganstraightedge @anildash If you simply add rel-me to your links to silo profiles and h-entry to your posts, you'll be #indieweb-ing too. (twitter.com/_/status/369619808041463808)
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@SimonDJacobs @anildash if you need to run your own instance of #indieweb apps, do they count as "consumer" apps? (twitter.com/_/status/369620786023112705)
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davystevenson.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+383) "/* Sunday AND Monday RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek shaners, well done with the incremental encouragement of anildash as well.
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shaners nods
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tantek shaners - also, Jay Allen, who you met at YxYY in the pool, is also one of the original awesome MT hackers.
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shaners right. i remember that. what's his @handle?
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tantek he's @jayallen and more importantly jayallen.org
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rkn.la edited /2013/Hollywood (+318) "/* Sunday ONLY RSVP */" (view diff)
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shaners rknLA: how about your grab your twitter avatar photo, resize it 128px and throw it in your h-card on your site. then use it on the 2013/Hollywood page. ;)
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rknLA i'm not supremely confident in that photo.
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shaners then use something that you like better
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rknLA therein lies the problem. i need a new headshot.
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rknLA might use my old headshot
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shaners Something > nothing
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iamshane.com created /2013/hollywood (+23) "redirect little h to big H" (view diff)
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iamshane.com edited /2013/hollywood (+5) "forgot the 2013/" (view diff)
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iamshane.com created /2013/la (+28) "La => #redirect:[[2013/Hollywood]]" (view diff)
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rknLA am i gonna be chastised for using a gravatar url for an avatar photo ;)
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shaners rknLA: i don't care. but it's prolly easy enough for you to toss it up on your site too, right?
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rkn.la edited /2013/Hollywood (+68) "/* Sunday ONLY RSVP */" (view diff)
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rknLA yeah, just not right now
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shaners totes grool. small moves, ellie.
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shaners rknLA: what's your work email? i wanna send you a thing.
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rknLA rkn@rd.io
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shaners short!
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rknLA yeah, very proud of that :)
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@zakkain Great to see local groups putting up well-made sites w/ modern web tech: http://hillcitysc.org #movethewebforward #indieweb (via @ARStager) (twitter.com/_/status/369635005032448000)
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benwerd off to find food and head to the meetup @ Local Edition a little later
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tantek aaronpk - questions blogged: http://tantek.com/2013/231/b1/questions-twitter-related-headlines-feature
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@veganstraightedge @anildash rel-me and h-card is the foundation of #indieweb interop. They enable auth and replys/comments, respectively. (twitter.com/_/status/369640853741895680)
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tantek shaners - the "largely theoretical" comment belies a certain cluelessness about how much microformats have been "obviously" consumed for quite some time, e.g. *four* years of Google consuming them for search results.
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shaners yep. i'm getting there.
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shaners this isn't a cross examination. it's a friendly conversation.
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tantek I can't tell if Anil is being deliberately obtuse with such statements or trolling or … ?
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shaners i think he just doesn't know me and is keeping his guard up
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tantek yes, perhaps you'll have better luck than me :)
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tantek go forth, set a good example :)
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shaners sometimes it just takes hearing it from a different person. you and he have all this history. so things get messy.
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shaners i'm just some dude
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tantek and you're building Homesteading :)
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shaners sure. that too.
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bret shaners, good news! girlfriend is down to go to LA in november
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shaners boom
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shaners did you mention that there will be avocados?
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shaners because there will be avocados. :D
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bret no! but i will
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rknLA aright, i'm off to food then Local Edition.
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bret so, hopefully she has her job situation settled out before that, and I can work out my shit, we can make it
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rknLA see y'all there!
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bret have fun!
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rknLA or, well, some of y'all
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shaners later rknLA
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bret someone be sure to itemise the ideas you guys talk about tonight
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bret part of me wonders if anil dash is too far away from development to really know what hes talking about (IRT: https://twitter.com/anildash/status/369598953496793088)
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@anildash Is there a single Indieweb (how ever you define that) app that you use/used which isn't merely an inferior clone of a closed app?
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bret does he actually make anything anymore?
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shaners bret: i don't know. but it's never too late to make stuff / make stuff again.
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shaners but ultimately, who cares. we just keep plugging along building our things and welcoming new people who come along. some people will join in. some won't.
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josephg how do I find the indieweb people at the local edition?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb meetup (at @LocalEditionSf w/ 3 others) https://foursquare.com/kevinmarks/checkin/5212e31f11d25305c186ef6e?s=UEKWff55OJR4YKrXuwZUSDnwT5A&ref=tw (twitter.com/_/status/369663009809260544)
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rknLA josephg: same question. I just got here
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rknLA And as I type that, I have found us.
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josephg :)
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josephg isn't down there yet
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josephg where abouts should I look?
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tantek.com created /mentions (+24) "redirect for now, can make this a separate page later" (view diff)
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tantek josephg - look for the glowing screens
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tantek at the red couches
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kevinmarks Local edition meet up going well
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benwerd Never in my wildest dreams as a teenager did I think I'd connect to IRC on my phone.
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benwerd living the dream
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josephg lol
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josephg heads over
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-08-19-sf-drinkup (+60) "/* Food */ no outside food at Local Edition either." (view diff)
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melvster oh it's w3c geek week next week i think
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melvster "The idea is to have a week where we improve our skills, collaborate with each other on prototypes and fun projects that help W3C, and to come up for air from our everyday duties"
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@dipolesource RT @veganstraightedge: Want to help build the #indieweb? Join us @indiewebcamp : Hollywood 2013 at The @Farmhouse on 2013-11-03. http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/369685643674124288)
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@benwerd In darkness, an #indieweb meet. Can you name them all? https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/369694911949328384/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/369694911949328384)
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josephg Well, that was fun
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shaners josephg: did anything cool come of the drink up? or was it just drink up?
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josephg we talked about ways to reply with linkback stuff
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josephg and some security/crypto stuff
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@phaleon2 RT @nitot: Feat @t : RT @comzeradd: Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/369711553429270528)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-08-19-sf-drinkup (+20) "topics reply-context" (view diff)
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tantek josephg - see and please add more topics of our conversations tonight to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-08-19-sf-drinkup
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-08-19-sf-drinkup#Topics
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Jihaisse hello
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tantek and with that, it was wonderful seeing everyone out tonight. great conversations, and see you soon! everyone that attended - please yourself and any topics of conversations: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-08-19-sf-drinkup
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tantek good night
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Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
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tpinto Hi guys. I can't seem to get IndieAuth working with my domain, www.tiagopinto.pt
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tpinto I checked out the code from github to try it on irb
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tpinto and I get this
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tpinto <<<<<<< FETCHING tiagopinto.pt >>>>>>>
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tpinto absolute URL needed (not tiagopinto.pt)
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tpinto is this because www.tiagopinto.pt is a CNAME to an S3 bucket?
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tpinto thanks in advance
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tommorris aaronpk: tpinto has an indieauth question
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tommorris tpinto: aaronpk is the person to talk to about indieauth issues. ;)
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href tpinto: try using http://www.tiagopinto.pt ? (absolute url is with the protocol if I recall)
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tpinto I should have guessed that because the github's repo I cloned is his but I thought someone else could know the answer ;)
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Loqi agreed.
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tpinto href, i get the same output either with or without the protocol
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tpinto well, actually
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tpinto my bad
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tpinto not the same output
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tpinto but it gives me an empty array
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tpinto and I have a couple rel="me" links there, not sure if it is some dumb error on my markup or something else
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tpinto at least on https://indieauth.com/ doesn't work with either option and on the console it complains about the content encoding being utf-8?
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tpinto probably some misconfiguration on my end?
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tpinto ok, got it
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tpinto misconfigurated http headers on my s3 bucket that serves the static files
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tpinto sorry for bothering you guys with this
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tommorris no problem, tpinto
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tommorris glad to hear you've got it sorted
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tpinto btw, I just came across the movement a few weeks ago
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tpinto and discovered that an itch and some thoughts I've been having for some months have been your battle for some time now
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tpinto was thiking about joining you in Brighton in september
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tpinto but I'm not sure if I have something useful to add to the conversation. are participants required to bring work or presentations to IndieWebCamp?
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barnabywalters tpinto: nope! if you have a personal domain, you’re welcome :)
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tpinto well, at least I have no code to show and no extensive work like the one I've been discovering from a lot of you
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barnabywalters it’d be great to see you in Brighton
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barnabywalters maybe add yourself to the RSVP list? http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK
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tommorris tpinto: you may be inspired to jump in and do that stuff. I was when I attended last year.
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tpinto ok cool. we should meet there then, I'm keen to join the debate :)
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tommorris (even though I've been kind of busy since then and haven't been able to do as much as I'd like.)
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tpinto sure, I was just sorting out this problem with my domain and IndieAuth in order to add me to the RSVP
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tpinto thanks guys!
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@poulpita [social business] summer W3C Workshop on Social Standards, some notes from @indiewebcamp are available : http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/osfw3c #osfw3c (twitter.com/_/status/369771932431810560)
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@knitatoms I'm attending IndieWebCampUK, 7th-8th September 2013 in Brighton http://lanyrd.com/2013/indiewebcampuk/ (twitter.com/_/status/369773374379028480)
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amirchaudhry.com edited /2013/UK (+490) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2013/UK (+79) "/* IndieWebCampUK */ added OSM map link for venue" (view diff)
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knitatoms.net edited /2013/UK (+590) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: I'm trying to configure the webaction tool belt with firefox
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Jihaisse when I click on the "preference" button
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Jihaisse it goes to : chrome://webnactions_kango/content/options.html
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Jihaisse and says that there is no file there
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barnabywalters hm, weird — what version of ff are you using?
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Jihaisse 23.01
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Jihaisse something like that
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Jihaisse 23.0.1
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Jihaisse maybe I missed something before loading the .xpi file
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barnabywalters I think I have that version somewhere, I’ll give it a go
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: ok, thanks
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barnabywalters wow, my non-nightly install is back at version 17! give me a minute to upgrade
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barnabywalters Jihaisse: okay, confirmed that that’s an issue. if you press the toolbar button it should take you to the right page
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barnabywalters which for me is chrome://webnactions_kango/content/options/index.html
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barnabywalters I should be able to fix it so that the preferences link works too
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Loqi I agree
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barnabywalters !tell tantek ever come across neo4j.org? graph database with semantic HTML-based interactive REST interface.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tommorris barnabywalters: I have. It's very useful for certain types of analysis
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: ok, great
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barnabywalters tommorris: I’m playing around with it, wanting to try using it for my degrees-of-separation spam prevention code
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tommorris I've looked at using it at work for doing visitor path analysis.
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barnabywalters I was blown away when I found the HTML interface. clearly the devs “get it”
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tommorris Indeed. It's almost as if one of the benefits of a REST interface is that it is *just* an HTTP interface, and HTML+JS is well suited to building a client for an HTTP interface. ;)
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barnabywalters heh
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tommorris But, I know, herp derp, needs more complexity.
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barnabywalters it’s a pity there’s no editing UI in the bare-bones representation
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barnabywalters it’s also the easiest database I’ve ever set up
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barnabywalters I don’t think there *was* any setup
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: ok, your link works
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Jihaisse but I don't know how to configure it
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Jihaisse (I use wordpress)
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barnabywalters Jihaisse: okay. do you know if you can pre-fill content into the wordpress “new content” UI via query string params?
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pfefferle you can use the bookmarklet
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barnabywalters okay I’ll have a look at the bookmarklet for params
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barnabywalters ah, perfect, they explain how to use it here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Press_This
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barnabywalters so, Jihaisse, say you want to be able to handle “post” web actions
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pfefferle yes
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barnabywalters you would use your-domain.com/wp-admin/press-this.php?u={url}
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barnabywalters then the {url} gets expanded at click-time to the URL of the page
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barnabywalters the actions in Twitter.com allow you to replace buttons on twitter.com with your own
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pfefferle if you install the oexchange plugin, the press-this ui also supports the more descriptive oexchange params like "url" and "title"
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barnabywalters the ones in Social Buttons allow you to do the same for tweet, like and +1 buttons across the web
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barnabywalters web action verbs allows you to define handlers for <action> markup
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barnabywalters and selection allows you to take actions on selected text, as {text} or {html}
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barnabywalters and multiple handling services can be assigned to any verb
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barnabywalters e.g. for selection handling I have Reply, Quote and Bookmark services
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barnabywalters each of which launches a new note form auto-filled in a slightly different way
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pfefferle barnabywalters btw. thanks for pointing me on that, this might be a way to fix the reply problem with the wordpress ui...
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pfefferle trying to extend the bookmarklet form
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barnabywalters pfefferle: oooh yes that would be cool
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pfefferle adding a reply-to field and auto generate the html for the output
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Web_Action_URL_APIs (+174) "/* Web */ added link to Press This wordpress URL API" (view diff)
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pfefferle (Y)
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pfefferle didn't even know that this page does exist ;)
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Jihaisse thanks barnabywalters and pfefferle
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pfefferle your welcome :)
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Jihaisse I will try this later
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Jihaisse I have some work to do :(
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hidgw Think I've confirmed that I did not, in fact, sign in to IndieWebCamp.com using OpenID. I guess aaronpk doesn't have to do a manual merge for me. :)
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cyberjar09 hello world
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cyberjar09 first timer here. great to be here
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barnabywalters greetings cyberjar09!
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cyberjar09 greetings
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cyberjar09 im going through the "getting started" guide on the site
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barnabywalters oh great — feel free to ask any questions here
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barnabywalters we’re always looking to improve the getting started material
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cyberjar09 Any Domain providers to recommend?
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cyberjar09 Ive read a little about dyndns. Can I use that?
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barnabywalters I use namecheap, I haven’t had any problems with them
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barnabywalters by dyndns do you mean Dyn the company, or do you want to host your site on your own machine?
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cyberjar09 on my own machine
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barnabywalters cyberjar09: maybe check out https://pagekite.net/ if you want to go down that route
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cyberjar09 ok I will check back with more questions if I have any
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cyberjar09 Thanks @barnabywalters
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vrypan cyberjar09, barnabywalters about "dyndns", I use amazon route53 to host my domain and update a subdomain record with my home IP. http://blog.vrypan.net/2012/12/20/dynamic-dns-with-route53/
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vrypan s/host my domain/"for my DNS server/
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Loqi vrypan meant to say: cyberjar09, barnabywalters about "dyndns", I use amazon route53 to "for my DNS server and update a subdomain record with my home IP. http://blog.vrypan.net/2012/12/20/dynamic-dns-with-route53/
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cweiske cool idea with the txt record
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cweiske gotta add that to http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/ssh-dyndns.htm
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@getpublify @jbbarth if you write a status which doesn’t fit in a tweet, you get a clickable link as « read more ». http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter (twitter.com/_/status/369834763764645888)
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: I've tested webactions
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barnabywalters Jihaisse: cool. thoughts?
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Jihaisse for twitter : reply, ok I have the button, but for RT and favorite, no buttons
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Jihaisse for facebook : like : no buttons
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barnabywalters hm, weird
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Jihaisse yep
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Jihaisse I don't have investigated
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barnabywalters I’m having a look now
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barnabywalters hm, looks like twitter might have changed their markup
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Jihaisse oh, ok
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mapkyca evening, morning all :) quick question, is there some guidance/best practice anywhere for how to render webmentions/pingbacks - mf2 classes, etc etc?
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mapkyca ack, never mind... found the page :)
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barnabywalters mapkyca: see http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /comments-presentation (-3) "/* How to markup */ changed h-entry to h-cite" (view diff)
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mapkyca cheers :) ... having a slow brain day... :/ (and I was just wondering why it was h-entry and not h-cite) ;)
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barnabywalters mapkyca: :) same applies for p-in-reply-to
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barnabywalters !tell Jihaisse I updated web action toolbelt to work with new twitter.com markup, haven’t looked at like buttons yet. thanks for the heads-up!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi tantek: barnabywalters left you a message 3 hours, 47 minutes ago: ever come across neo4j.org? graph database with semantic HTML-based interactive REST interface.
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neuro` Good *.* tantek
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tantek good morning neuro` :)
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tantek barnabywalters - sounds complicated :)
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barnabywalters tantek: it’s actually the easiest database I’ve ever set up
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barnabywalters because there wasn’t really any
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barnabywalters the REST interface can be accessed as JSON, but if you look at it in a browser it’s all semantic HTML and forms
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tantek how is the data actually stored though?
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tantek that's one of the problems with the database anti-pattern
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, the big-magic-file problem is the one thing keeping me from using DBs to store my content
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tantek it's perhaps the biggest problem with using DBs for anything persistent
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tantek because you can't trust it
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tantek however that's ok if you're only using it as a cache for performance reasons
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tommorris problem with that logic is it is what Daniel Dennett called a universal acid
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tantek and keep your "real storage" in proper easily readable/maintainable flat files
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tommorris if you can't trust the database, you can't trust the filesystem
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tommorris whatever you create in place of the database is itself a database. ;)
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tantek tommorris - false. databases have proprietary poorly maintained file formats.
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barnabywalters yeah, the two things I’m considering trying to use it for are foundation for a personal indieweb structured search engine and degrees-of-separation based spam filtering
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tantek that's where that logic fails
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tantek whereas (presumably) your flat files use standard open human readable/writeable formats like HTML
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tommorris but they also have tooling that allows backup and distribution
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tantek hah! "allows backup" = you mean a *separate* back up task from the backup you're already doing of your files.
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tantek = database tax
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tommorris what databases lack is simple, zero-configuration backup process, sort of like Time Machine on the Mac
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tantek "allows … distribution" = irrelevant for the indieweb use-case
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aaronpk streaming replication of a filesystem would be pretty cool
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tantek sounds like I need to add these to the anti-pattern page
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tantek because they sounds like quick quips that db-apologists may promote
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tantek aaronpk - indeed - that's the right level to do it
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tommorris of course, I think most shared web hosts also lack simple, zero-configuration backup processes.
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tantek tommorris - its called scp/rcp
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aaronpk rsync goes a long way though
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tantek or rsync - exactly
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aaronpk i've been running an rsync backup of all my shared hosting environments for like 8 years now
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tantek aaronpk - brilliant
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tommorris if you can rsync files, you can rsync the result of mysqldump
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tantek tommorris - so why add the extra step of remembering to or setting a process to do mysqldumps?
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tommorris because databases are quite useful. ;)
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tantek which is nothing but a db tax
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tantek not worth the incremental maintenance cost
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tantek certainly not for individuals
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wardn databases provide indexing... what you're really looking for is a good indexer
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aaronpk i would rather not back up my database because i could always re-create it from the data in the filesystem at will
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tantek wardn - sure, indexing is a nice feature … for a *cache* of your data. not the persistent store.
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wardn with a good indexer over file storage you could rsync your *data* and still have quick access to it
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tantek so sure, if you have performance issues (measure it), and a database would help improve those issues (test it), then setup a db as a cache in front of your persistent store.
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wardn and it'd still be archeology-friendly
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tantek btw - for those following along re: Twitter's "Related headlines" feature - the answers are coming and they're quite indie-unfriendly.
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tantek read to the bottom of this: https://dev.twitter.com/blog/headlines-tell-story-behind-tweet
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tommorris gives us money and we'll link your shit
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aaronpk https://dev.twitter.com/form/request-participation-twitter-headlines
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aaronpk "Thank you for your interest in Twitter Headlines."
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aaronpk i don't see a form
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barnabywalters “you must login to see this form”
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aaronpk oh
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barnabywalters I’m pretty meh about most stuff twitter do now
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aaronpk whatever
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wardn or maybe they already knew who you were...
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wardn hi btw... I'm new here
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tantek welcome wardn!
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barnabywalters greetings wardn!
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barnabywalters do you have a personal url?
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wardn registered one for this purpose... edwardsheffler.com
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wardn working on the content
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tantek wardn - awesome!
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wardn just found you guys the other day
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tantek how did you find us?
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wardn golang -> bradfitz -> camlistore -> indieweb
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wardn a rather circuitous route
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tantek another googler?
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wardn na
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wardn I have friends at google but I'm a programmer at heart
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wardn not that they're mutually exclusive
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wardn my interest is mostly hobby
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tantek wardn - join the club :)
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wardn happily... I like the way you all think
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tantek a lot of what gets done here is simple and very minimalist because it is precisely that - mostly hobby - time constrained
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wardn if it's not simple it's not maintainable
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tantek = no time for any extra bullshit (e.g. just one little extra mysqldump task every once in a while)
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tantek hobby (personal time constraint) + selfdogfood = much better constrained and focused design and discussions
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wardn agreed
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/principles
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@devseo Decentralized comments and the IndieWeb - http://benwerd.com/2013/07/01/decentralized-comments-and-the-indieweb/ #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/369860453507563520)
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tantek hey benwerd, you've been #socialmedia tagged :)
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benwerd wait, what does that mean?
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barnabywalters benwerd: you’re one of those social media gurus now
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benwerd oh, right
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benwerd hey, does that mean I get paid the big bucks?
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benwerd would like to be paid with big bucks
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barnabywalters misread that as “ducks” several times
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benwerd would like to be paid with big ducks
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barnabywalters I want to bring back duckrolling. it sounds infinitely more entertaining than rickrolling
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aral Hey folks, I’ve set up a sign up form for the Terms and Conditions May Apply screening on the 7th (4PM-6PM) that will be taking place during Indie Web Camp UK — here’s the link for you guys before I tweet it. Please sign up separate if you’d like to attend even if you’ve already signed up on the Wiki for Indie Web Camp as seating is limited to 30 people.http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/event/5655728436
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aral PS. More info on the film: http://tacma.net
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benwerd barnabywalters: make it so
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aral As far as I know, this will the first time the film is screened in the UK.
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aral * will be
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barnabywalters aral: registered, thanks
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aral Awesome :)
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tommorris Are there any terms and conditions one must agree to before signing up for the screening?
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aral Yes. We own your first born.
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aral Or your Star Trek collection.
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tommorris I have neither, so I'd be fine.
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tommorris Alas, I won't be there as I'll be in New York.
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aaronpk awesome!
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cldstr There's one Terms and Conditions screening coming up at Mercado in Santa Clara on Oct 22. http://www.tugg.com/events/5194
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barnabywalters I need to try to organise a Reykjavik screening
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aaronpk benwerd: whoa you are on le hackernews
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tantek signed-up for the screening of Terms and Conditions May Apply Film Screening during IndieWebCampUK
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aaronpk tantek: I just discovered a problem with my URL scheme for notes
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tantek uh oh
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aaronpk I want to go back and import all my instagram photos as notes
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aaronpk but because they're numbered sequentially, if I add my old photos they will be out of order with the text notes on the same day
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tantek aaronpk - this reminds me of the one of the original use cases I came up with for my own different URL short codes / post types
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tantek different storage / service / posting processes
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aaronpk yes, it wouldn't be a problem if I use a different post type prefix for photos
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benwerd aaronpk: oh yeah! onto every NSA watchlist I go.
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tantek this is in fact perhaps the biggest reason I have for a separate /p short code for photos
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tantek in other news, looks like G+ +1s affect search ranking (a lot) : http://moz.com/blog/google-plus-correlations
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tantek perhaps a reason to POSSE to G+ via a G+ +1 button.
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aaronpk oh interesting
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benwerd what a pain
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aaronpk having a +1 button on all my notes would be interesting
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aaronpk oh! "Google has been using Google+ to discover new content, and many web professionals have discovered that URLs shared on Google+ are crawled and indexed very quickly."
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tantek I'm thinking of having a +1 button only on my posts that have yet to be POSSEd to G+, and only have it show up when I'm signed-in to my site.
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tantek I really dislike how much overhead G+'s JS/iframe adds
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aaronpk only you would see it?
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tantek yes - it becomes a semi-automatic POSSE UI for me
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tantek and then I would show a simple "View on Google+" link to the rel=syndication copy
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tantek rather than execute Google's horrible javascript
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tantek for *every single reader* of my posts
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aaronpk but just +1'ing a post doesn't give it a permalink on G+ does it?
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tantek if they happen to be a G+ user, they can click the "View on Google+" link and then click +1 there.
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tantek aaronpk - pretty sure it does if you're the first
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tantek but yes - getting the syndicated copy permalink is the challenge
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tantek there should be some way to automatically do so by polling their read-only API
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barnabywalters they have a couple of URL APIs, I can’t remember if there’s one for +1s
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aaronpk I would suspect if you started +1'ing all your own posts it wouldn't really help their rankings
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aaronpk probably is better if a non-author +1s a post
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aaronpk is guessing wildly
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tantek aaronpk - I think it may share it to your G+ stream?
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tantek which then other G+ users can +1
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tantek etc.
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aaronpk worth an experiment
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tantek experiment, yes. slowing down everyone's experience who reads my site, no.
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barnabywalters sucking up to google = not a good plan in the long run IMO
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barnabywalters not worth the bad experience, probably not worth the search boost
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barnabywalters certainly not worth the effort it would take to automatically POSSE to G+
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tantek more fuel to the Medium flames: http://www.codingjohnson.com/medium-sucks
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tantek barnabywalters - yeah, I have other priorities as well. I may still write it up on the wiki however in case it's a priority for someone else, or perhaps some indieweb googlers want to try it (since googlers in general apparently use G+ directly in all seriousness)
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benwerd oh, hey, mailpile met its goal!
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tantek.com edited /Google+ (+622) "/* POSSE */ add subheads for POSSE why (with article), indieweb examples, Will Norris" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk did you apply for Twitter Headlines?
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tantek fill out the form etc.
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shaners good morning, sailors!
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tantek good morning shaners
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shaners is reading the logs
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tantek looks like benward answered some of my questions about Twitter
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shaners yep. maybe, embed those tweets in your blog post? #meta
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tantek shaners - that was my first thought too (actually to do a second blog post with just the questions that he answered)
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tantek but then I realized that that would result in too much repeated text. so I'm likely to just blockquote the answers from his tweets
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iamshane.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+115) "/* added my original "no more sharecropping" post to 2010 */" (view diff)
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SRCR Is there a directory of indieweb sites ?
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iamshane.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+125) "/* added my "We Need a Twitter API Clone Ruby Gem" to 2010 */" (view diff)
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aral Hey folks, anyone know if Brad (Fitzpatrick) is in the house? The installation instructions for Camlistore should include a line about setting the PCK_CONFIG_PATH — otherwise the build fails (at least when go is installed via brew). This worked for me: export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/Cellar/sqlite/3.7.17/lib/pkgconfig (you’ll have to change the version). Best thing would be to add this to the build script if possible.
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iamshane.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+119) "/* added my "JSON-LD is an Unneeded Spec" post to 2013 */" (view diff)
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pdurbin he hangs out here?
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pdurbin swoons
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aral Hey Tantek, any chance you can bring Brad with you when you pop over for Indie Web Camp? :) Wondering if we can’t build the file system for Prometheus on top of Camlistore… *goes back to playing with it*
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melvster has anyone to date written an indieweb game?
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@aral @TinyClanger Humph—I guess we need to rebuild the whole freaking web, #indieweb style :) (twitter.com/_/status/369906944179707905)
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bret SRCR: Here are my bookmarks of indiewebish sites I come across: https://pinboard.in/u:bcomnes/t:indieweb/
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bret melvster: no indieweb games that I have seen. You have some ideas?
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aaronpk melvster: we were toying with the idea of indieweb chess, each person makes a move by publishing a post on their site
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bret Proof of concept
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bret XD
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aaronpk comes up now and again https://www.google.com/search?q=chess+site%3Aindiewebcamp.com%2Firc
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-04-16/line/1366142463
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bret has anyone made progress with webactions?
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aaronpk lol http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-25/line/1372216011
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bret Should I add some action buttons to my site?
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bret benwerd: do you have any suggestions for realtime video on the web?
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bret I'm working on a project to put an Scanning electron microscope online for educational purposes, was eying webrtc
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aaronpk lol I like the "for educational purposes" disclaimer. makes it sound way more insidious.
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bret Its kind of the only excuse in academia to work on a project that increases accesss
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bret so it seems, I don't really know
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bret someone click this https://apprtc.appspot.com/?r=21610215
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bret in chrome or firefox
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aaronpk i see me
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bret :/
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bret It says waiting for someone to join: URL
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bret oh well
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bret thank aaronpk
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bret hi julien51
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wardn says I'm currently sharing my microphone... although there's no microphone attached
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bret I closed my session at this point
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barnabywalters bret: in reply to your earlier question: yes, please go ahead and put <action> markup on your site
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barnabywalters if you have any questions I can probably answer them
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bret Do you have an example reference?
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bret or recommend one?
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bret just what do do on your site?
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@devseo The IndieWeb as a minimum viable social web ecosystem - http://benwerd.com/2013/07/09/the-indieweb-as-a-minimum-viable-social-web-ecosystem/ (twitter.com/_/status/369918201523875840)
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barnabywalters bret: I have <action> buttons for post, reply and bookmark verbs on note permalink pages
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barnabywalters and just reply on my note feed
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bret ok
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aaronpk i'm still on the fence about web action markup within the site
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barnabywalters aaronpk: me too
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aaronpk so far i've been happy with my bookmark toolbar method
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aaronpk also it works on every site right now :)
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barnabywalters in-page markup does have some advantages, e.g. replying to a note in a feed without having to go to the permalink page
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eschnou bret, my site also has actions enabled on items, would love feedback on this. Note that I took the choice to style them (and still wait for barnaby to show some love to his own buttons :-)
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barnabywalters yes my buttons are rather ugly
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barnabywalters where is the algorithm for fetching a original post URL from a syndicated copy?
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aaronpk original post discovery
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barnabywalters I want to get that built tonight
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery
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barnabywalters thanks aaronpk
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eschnou just passing by following benwerd post and realizing there are 73 users on this channel?? Is it a consequence of the wired article? Really cool anyway!
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aaronpk eschnou: yes I believe so! lots of new people joining the last couple days!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: are you doing original post discovery on all URLs or filtering by known silos e.g. twitter?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: all URLs
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bret eschnou: i don't see the action buttons
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barnabywalters cool
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aaronpk i think... let me double check
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eschnou bret, should be on every item, reply and share. Do you see them on barnabywalters site? Mine are re-styled in blue links that matches the page styling.
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aaronpk hm no actually it's just doing it for tweets right now, although the code is basically set up to handle it for everything
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eschnou bret, huh? I just realized they are gone...
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bret I see "Reply Tweet Favourite" below barnaby's notes and just a comment box on your site
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bret oh heel!
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barnabywalters bret: you’re seeing the fallback elements
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eschnou barnabywalters, could my site moving to https have an impact on your app?
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bret but they are wrapped in the action tags
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barnabywalters eschnou: my app?
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barnabywalters the extension?
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barnabywalters I’m pretty sure not, no
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eschnou barnabywalters, my bad, I was in firefox, had forgotten it was a chrome extension :-)
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eschnou and I don't use chrome anymore :-D
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barnabywalters eschnou: technically it’s a cross-browser extension :) and good choice
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eschnou barnabywalters, really? never realized that, I'll try out in FF then!
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barnabywalters eschnou: yep, I use the kango framework which builds extensions for opera, ff, chrome and safari from one codebase
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barnabywalters if you pay them you can also get IE support
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eschnou cool!
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barnabywalters it’s not *actually* a proper open source framework, but works really well and is free as in beer, which is good enough for the moment
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bret Not supporting IE is a feature in my book
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@jddunn Just in general, FOSS and indieweb social software alternatives are absolute crap from a UX and human factors perspective. (twitter.com/_/status/369934675852029952)
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@benwerd @jddunn A lot of us are trying to work on this. Specific, constructive UX #indieweb feedback is really helpful. (twitter.com/_/status/369937823404539905)
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@t @jddunn, http://jareddunn.org looks nice. What software / plugins / templates are you using? #indieweb #ux (ttk.me t4Rc2) (twitter.com/_/status/369940040010727424)
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@CraigHadix Meet the hackers who want to jailbreak the internet, eliminating vendor lock-in #indieweb #openid #camlistore http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffera80da&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/369943699335442432)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: are you using the twitter shim when doing original post discovery?
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@tistre Blog post w/ lots of links: Indie Web resources: Silos vs. an open Web http://www.strehle.de/tim/weblog/archives/2013/08/21/1641 (inspired by @bastianallgeier) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/369951754450108416)
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bret someone running new chrome and or firefox wanna test webRTC with me?
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bret https://talky.io/testconvo
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bret nm closed it
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