#indiewebcamp 2013-09-14

2013-09-14 UTC
smus, smus_, wardn_, tantek, tpinto, npdoty, andreypopp, pfenwick, barneybook|2, catsup, abrereton, poppy, termie, sdboyer, julien51, benward, gjones, eschnou, LauraJ and adactio joined the channel
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pfenwick Finally have callbacks from Beeminder working. Now when I floss my teeth, my exobrain gets a ping (which then triggers it to update HabitRPG, and finally send me a reward tweet with XP and GP).
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tantek pfenwick - that is amazing.
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pfenwick tantek: It's getting to the point where I'm almost happy to show it off to others. :) I really want things to go to my pebble watch, but I haven't busted out the pebble SDK yet.
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tantek I know aaronpk has got bunches of cool things working with his pebble watch.
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squeakytoy Hey all. I got recommended to visit indiewebcamp, since I have a project idea that might align with indiewebcamp's own cause. However, reading the website.. I have to admit. I am a bit confused what indiewebcamp is all about, and how :-)
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squeakytoy Anyone got a good resource that I can read?
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Garbee http://indiewebcamp.com/principles Would probably be the best starting point.
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Garbee Have you seen that yet?
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squeakytoy Yea
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squeakytoy hm
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aaronpk !tell pfenwick that is awesome! Also for the pebble, if you have iOS 7 or Android, it's easy to make any notifications show up on the pebble without writing code for the pebble!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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neuro` Good not sur yet #indiewebcamp
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tantek squeakytoy re: "a bit confused what indiewebcamp is all about" - what in particular from http://indiewebcamp.com/ do you find confusing? E.g. start from the top.
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squeakytoy Garbee, gave me a better explaination thanks :)
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@RichardSmedley Much food for thought in @aral's #IndieData talk @ #WutheringBytes (twitter.com/_/status/378919224984756224)
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neuro` squeakytoy: I think tantek wanted to know what was unclear so we can make it clearer :)
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tantek neuro` squeakytoy - exactly
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squeakytoy none, sorry
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tantek and squeakytoy - what's your project idea?
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squeakytoy It was a discussion with Garbee that got my confused, to be honest
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tantek oh interesting - what did Garbee say that was confusing?
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squeakytoy oh, nothing :-)
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squeakytoy Sorry, but all is good.
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Garbee tantek, I misunderstood what he was saying. Which led me to recommend using Microformats and talking with this group, which they weren't understanding why I was recommending it.
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Garbee Pretty long odd conversation bread from a mis-understanding of word choice.
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tantek bred?
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Garbee yea that one...
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tantek squeakytoy - ah good. In that case, what's your personal site?
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tantek and welcome!
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squeakytoy hm
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squeakytoy Im just a random guy :-)
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tantek what got you interested in the subject?
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aaronpk we're all pretty random
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tantek so true
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squeakytoy I have a personal project, which is about creating an open social network, which I actually just submitted to Mozilla Hatchery
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squeakytoy I was talking about that, one thing lead to another, Garbee mentioned this channel, etc.
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@i_am_prometheus RT @RichardSmedley: Much food for thought in @aral's #IndieData talk @ #WutheringBytes (twitter.com/_/status/378931301556174849)
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tantek squeakytoy - most of us here are using the web itself as an open social network, which is likely why you were recommended to this channel.
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@aral RT @RichardSmedley: Much food for thought in @aral's #IndieData talk @ #WutheringBytes (twitter.com/_/status/378932635017707521)
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Garbee tantek, Also I am using Blogger since I figured out the cname issue I was having.
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Garbee Not self-done, but still exportable if I decide to move.
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Garbee I really just don't want to build/install/maintain yet another piece of software.
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tantek Garbee - excellent - perhaps you could document the issue and what you figured out here … (goes to create Blogger page on the indiewebcamp wiki)
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tantek Garbee - totally reasonable and one of the reasons we have such cname hosting as one of the options to consider when getting started on the indieweb.
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Garbee Sure, my issue though was from the host I was using.
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Garbee They setup MX records and all kinds of other stuff automatically.
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Garbee :(
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tantek still - things like MX records often get screwed up, and often in similar ways
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Garbee so I had to dig around and remove all their stuff, then the cname worked fine.
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tantek your experience and insights will likely help others
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Garbee I'll explain the issue (and misunderstanding) I hit so if someone else hits it they may see it isn't an issue.
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Garbee stupidly thought for a week that removing the MX record for the jonathan subdomain would stop jonathan@garbee.me from forwarding email.
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Garbee It randomly hit me what was going on. :P
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Garbee so I'll doc what I went through somehow once I am home.
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Garbee Running the store right now.
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Garbee I also vaguely remember needing to chat with you about something and MicroFormats... Once I remember that I'll get back to you.
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tantek.com created /Blogger (+1294) "stub with definition, brief bit of history, domain hosting, issues" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Blogger (+8) "/* Issues */ custom domain" (view diff)
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tantek Garbee - could you drop in some of that issue text into http://indiewebcamp.com/Blogger#Issues ?
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tantek.com created /blogger (+21) "r" (view diff)
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Garbee Yea, I can work on a quick blurb.
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Garbee ugh, need to do some work on the blogger site to get auth working on the site.
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tantek.com edited /Getting_Started (+12) "linky linky" (view diff)
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Garbee I'll need to do that when I'm not at the store and so distracted.
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tantek heh
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tantek.com edited /Blogger (+109) "link to Blogger hosting instructions, getting started" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+4) "/* A Web You Can Call Your Own paragraph 1 */ link Blogger" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Blogger (+60) "was an early SaaS" (view diff)
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aaronpk is updating the ruby and php webmention clients
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aaronpk I want to use this ruby webmention test suite to test my php client... is that weird?
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aaronpk icco: just pulled in your changes for the ruby webmention client and made some updates!
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aaronpk it's now published on rubygems!
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@rubygems webmention (0.1.0): http://rubygems.org/gems/webmention A gem for sending webmention (and pingback) notifications (twitter.com/_/status/378967975426265089)
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tommorris ooh nifty
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tommorris can rip out the crappy webmention code he wrote and use a gem instead
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aaronpk it should be pretty resilient. check out the test suite!
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aaronpk complete with webmock tests!
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aaronpk trying to add it to travis-ci
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aaronpk there it goes
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aaronpk https://travis-ci.org/indieweb/mention-client-ruby
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aaronpk now time for the php version
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Loqi [@BarnabyWalters] Supported http://t.co/CfWWbzqywu, #indieweb MozFest session (although personal domains &gt
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Loqi github.io… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4S2LUs/ (http://twtr.io/cbLUL2ZpeD)
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message 2 days ago: superthanks for finishing php-mf2!! pin13.net is updated with it now!
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message on 9/12 at 5:06pm: good catch. didn't change my markup recently. you found a bug in parsing spec. when to apply vcp when parsing u-*. I updated http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property - please review.
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barnabywalters tantek: Updated u- parsing looks good, should the same apply to all other non-dt properties?
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aaronparecki.com edited /webmention (-127) (view diff)
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shaners aaronpk: does the pin13 parser resolve relative urls into absolute ones?
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aaronparecki.com edited /webmention (+57) "/* Webmention-related libraries and tools */" (view diff)
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aaronpk shaners: yes it does now!
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shaners i might've found a bug then
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shaners http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fanneke.me
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shaners photo": [ "http:\/\/anneke.me\/img\/anneke-hiatt.jpg"
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shaners looks good when i use the full absolute url
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shaners BUT i'll change it back to the relative one and then...
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shaners nm. looks like it's working now.
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shaners :D
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jschweinsberg barnabywalters: It seems that the hrefs of your autolinked h-cards are broken: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4S1D17/, http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4S0KGt/
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aaronpk shaners: lol ok
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barnabywalters jschweinsberg: Indeed, that is the case
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barnabywalters I’m aware of it, haven’t got round to fixing yet :)
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aaronpk shaners: if you do find a bug, open an issue or add a test case that fails: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/blob/master/tests/mf2/URLTest.php
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barnabywalters Need to do a bulk fix soon
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aaronpk we spent a while building that test suite :)
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aaronpk turns out there are tons of edge cases with resolving urls
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shaners roger wilco
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shaners in other news. i built my girlfriend a website for her painting stuff. and her show tonight. added rel-me links, h-card and h-event. because that's what nerd boyfriends do.
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aaronpk nice
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@aaronpk Just published updated versions of the PHP and Ruby webmention clients! https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php and... http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/14/2/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/378986576795033600)
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aaronpk *whew* lots of code today
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tantek scrolls up
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tantek oh darn - was going to ask him what he meant
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@veganstraightedge The M7 motion coprocessor might enable quantified self tracking where you #ownyourdata. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/379000327040557056)
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bret aaronpk: When were you going to have the openid hack session again?
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aaronpk sisters coffee tomorrow am!
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aaronpk adds to /events
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aaronpk it's on calagator already tho http://calagator.org/events/1250464804
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Loqi IndieAuth OpenID Hackathon on Sunday, Sep 15, 10:00am at Sisters Coffee
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bret ah
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bret i didnt look there
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bret i forgot
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bret i check /events though
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bret checked*
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi rofl
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bret would anyone mind if I put the TOC in the upper right hand corner? a la http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Bret.io/Main_Page
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ShaneHudson bret: looks fine to me, easier to navigate
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tantek bret - photos of people > TOC
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tantek that's why the TOC is *below* the photos of people
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tantek also - most of the things in the TOC are not worth "navigating" to
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bret mmmk
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tantek better to scroll to them
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tantek no seriously - take a look at the specific items in the home page TOC - can you actually imagine anyone wanting to jump to one of them in particular rather than scroll down?
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aaronpk yeah it's short enough to just scroll down
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bret should we just remove toc alltogether then?
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aaronpk considers adding microformats2 markup to calagator
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tantek aaronpk - awesome!
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aaronpk shouldn't be hard
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aaronpk there are also a surprising number of installs of calagator
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bret ok ill brb
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Loqi pfenwick: aaronpk left you a message 7 hours, 1 minute ago: that is awesome! Also for the pebble, if you have iOS 7 or Android, it's easy to make any notifications show up on the pebble without writing code for the pebble!
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@stefek99 #devnull #indiewebcamp #itunesfestival https://vine.co/v/hnvdxJKunEI (twitter.com/_/status/379008512585895936)
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wyomingplease hi there, folks! I'm new here, so I though it would be nice to introduce myself and tell you some relevant info, since I'd really like to join this community. So, basically, I'm a software engineering student from Serbia (not to be confused with Siberia or Syria or whatever) and I've spent the last 10 years building my own web stacks. Currently, all my content is offline due to various circumstances, but I am working on
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wyomingplease restoring my independent web presence ASAP. I'd like to say that I am extremely glad that I am not alone in this thing and I'd really like to jump in and become a member of this community. :-)
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ShaneHudson Hey wyomingplease, welcome!
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wyomingplease ShaneHudson thanks!
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wyomingplease I'd like to talk about some aspects of IndieWeb
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wyomingplease namely
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wyomingplease I used to run WordPress for years
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wyomingplease but I find it a little bit overwhelming for my needs
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wyomingplease so I switched to Octopress
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wyomingplease but I find it too minimalistic for my needs
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wyomingplease basically I'd like something in the middle and to be able to POSSE easily
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wyomingplease can someone give me any recommendation? I have a Linode VPS so it doesn't matter what language/framework is used
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ShaneHudson Ah yes that is the problem I found, Wordpress is amazing but cluttered. Everything else is amazing if you want to do purely what they are made for.
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wyomingplease yeah, that's the problem
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wyomingplease it would be nice to have something that's modular as WordPress but not too cluttered with functionality
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ShaneHudson Might be worth speaking to tantek, I think part of his cms is open source. Not sure if that includes the POSSE part though?
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ShaneHudson Though personally I've decided to just start from scratch. It is nice to have something suited to just your own needs
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tantek welcome wyomingplease!
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wyomingplease thanks, tantek :)
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tantek indeed, as ShaneHudson says, we're currently a community of mostly craftsman - building our own solutions because we're just not satisfied with what's out there
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tantek and we have different itches to scratch
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tantek we're all learning from each other
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tantek and we're all open sourcing at least some of what we create
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tantek sharing building blocks
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wyomingplease ShaneHudson - yeah, I thought about that, too, but currently I don't have a lot of time to pursue such a venture, but I think that eventually I'll just have to do just that
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ShaneHudson At one point (aka, until last weekend) I was going to write a plugin for Ghost for POSSE and just use that. It is a really nice node.js blogging system. Brand new so the code is pretty good
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tantek wyomingplease - funny, a lot of us decided we didn't have the time to futz with installing, configuring, maintaining existing solutions
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ShaneHudson But it is designed to be just logging
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wyomingplease tantek - experience has taught me that it's easier to just write your own stuff instead of spending vast amount of time studying others codebases
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ShaneHudson *blogging
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tantek wyomingplease - indeed. the key is start with something very minimal
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tantek just get *something* *anything* working on your own site
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tantek no matter how minimal
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tantek and then iterate on the next most important thing you want to fix
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wyomingplease tantek - yeah, that's a way to do it, but the problem is I know so many languages and frameworks that I just can't decide which one to pick up, because I am a software engineer that has been trained to look at a bunch of aspects :)
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ShaneHudson html files work a treat
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ShaneHudson :p
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wyomingplease the idea is to be able to easily POSSE :)
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tantek wyomingplease indeed - it's why I prefer to code in #cassis.js
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tantek I'm tired of new languages, so I'm writing code in a language that works today across the most computers and will likely last forever (JS-compat)
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wyomingplease tantek - I've been playing around with Ruby on Rails for some time now, but I find it too complex for a relatively basic blogging needs...
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ShaneHudson Right I'm going to head off now.. trying to get this chapter finished by this time tomorrow! Nice to meet you wyomingplease :)
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wyomingplease ShaneHudson me too, see you around :)
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tantek wyomingplease - there are some other ruby/rails folks here too
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wyomingplease tantek - that's great, I am looking forward to meet as many folks here as possible
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tantek I for one think the interpreted-language-battle is over, and that JS has won (long term view). There rest is just short/medium term momentum that's playing itself out.
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tantek hence cassisproject.com
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wyomingplease I'll check it out
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tantek (it's basically PHP-compatible JS - code that runs in both without reinterpretation)
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tantek (so I can deploy it immediately on any webserver, and any webbrowser)
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wyomingplease seems pretty interesting, as PHP has been my language of choice for years
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aaronpk a lot of us are using php here too, somewhat to my surprise
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aaronpk there's also a good microformats parser in php https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 and a webmention client https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php
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tantek wyomingplease - yes, much of Falcon is still PHP-only. Over time I'm moving more and more functions to CASSIS
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wyomingplease I tend to avoid it these days because it's relatively primitive for the whole Web 2.0 madness and client code and everything in between
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tantek PHP still has a good rep for getting simple things done quickly with minimum "ceremony"
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wyomingplease that's completely true
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wyomingplease it does a vast array of things pretty well
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aaronpk wyomingplease: sorta, but it's also pretty easy to deploy and maintain. a lot of the reasons people dislike php are due to poor code
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wyomingplease but trying to accomplish anything more complex can be a real pain
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wyomingplease aaronpk - yeah, I've seen loads of poor code
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aaronpk also check out http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/03/16/1/a-reasonable-php-development-stack which sets up a development stack that looks like ruby+sinatra+sequel
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wyomingplease looks promising
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aaronpk poke around https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews if you'd like, it's written with that setup
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wyomingplease cool
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wyomingplease I'm a newbie here, trying to familiarize myself with everything and stuff
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wyomingplease but someone has to start somewhere
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aaronpk successfully added mf2 classes to the single event view on calagator!
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aaronpk and now to the list views!
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aaronpk that was easy
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aaronpk https://github.com/calagator/calagator/pull/46
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aaronpk reidab: ^
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aaronparecki.com edited /Events (+658) "add indieauth hackathon, move indiewebcampuk to past" (view diff)
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reidab reviews aaronpk's pull request
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