#indiewebcamp 2013-09-15

2013-09-15 UTC
pdurbin, smus, bnvk, pfenwick and tpinto joined the channel
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aaronpk reidab: woot
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk aaand we have microformats2 on calagator! http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcalagator.org%2Fevents%2F1250464804
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aaronpk reidab++
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Loqi reidab has 20 karma
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aaronpk next I should add RSVPing via webmention!
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aaronpk let's see how this goes
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@aaronpk Going to be hacking on #indieauth tomorrow at Sisters Coffee so it can be used as a replacement for MyOpenID! (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/14/3/indieauth-openid) (twitter.com/_/status/379112246380466176)
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aaronpk uh, almost
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aaronpk ah my site must be pulling in the github URL from the calagator URL parameter
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aaronpk that's not entirely incorrect
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aaronpk fixed my date-formatter library to handle dates with no timezone, so it shows up pretty well now! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/14/3/indieauth-openid
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@HenrikJoreteg @julien51 @ericflo by the way, I agree the concept is interesting... and that it's got UX issues. Bring your own URL is more indieweb-ish. (twitter.com/_/status/379130091218812929)
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@lmjabreu Train of thought today so far: Node, IndieWeb (feeling guilty), identity (code as memories), mobile gaming (iOS7 tech & new HW) (twitter.com/_/status/379183651428499456)
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@nslater POSSE (Publish On your own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere) and No Backend seem like a good fit for each other. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #jsconfeu (twitter.com/_/status/379244813998370816)
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bret ill be heading over to sisters in a few mins
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk donpdonp has arrived
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donpdonp aaronpk: our seating arrangement is a tetris piece
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donpdonp http://is.gd/ji9xUR
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aaronpk lol
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donpdonp aaronpk: is that guy with us?
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peat Thanks donpdonp!
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donpdonp peat: hi :)
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donpdonp bret: u there?
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bret sup
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bret hello world?
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bret yeah I'm here
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bret testing lag 123
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aaronpk donpdonp: yeah the guy next to bret
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bret :)
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peat I'm the one with the hat.
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bret hi peat !
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peat Howdy. :D
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donpdonp aaronpk: oh him too? i meant on your right
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donpdonp peat: that hat really sets you apart
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aaronpk oh yeah
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aaronpk him too
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peat ... fixing my Jekyll site to do the basic IndieAuth thing.
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neuro` Good evening #indiewebcamp
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donpdonp neuro`: hello. there is a gathering this morning (10:26am localtime) to work on indieauth
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donpdonp in Portland Oregon
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neuro` donpdonp: awesome! Unfortunately I'm 8681.09km (5394.32 miles) from Portland, so I won't make it.
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aaronpk here's an etherpad for collecting notes https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid
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donpdonp neuro`: understood. :)
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neuro` donpdonp: I'm releasing Publify 7.0 otnight, after a 1 week beta
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donpdonp neuro`: excellent. my blog is on publify now.
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neuro` donpdonp: excellent!
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neuro` donpdonp: are you happy with the evolution?
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donpdonp neuro`: yes things feel generally better
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donpdonp aaronpk: is mysql a requirement for indieauth app?
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bret https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid
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donpdonp aaronpk: if so, has anyone tried it with mariadb?
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donpdonp jokerswild663: welcome.
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aaronpk donpdonp: indieauth.com uses datamapper, so it should work with anything datamapper supports in theory
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aaronpk i've only tried using it with mysql
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donpdonp aaronpk: whats the do_mysql for?
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aaronpk where?
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donpdonp Using dm-migrations (1.2.0)
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donpdonp Installing do_mysql (0.10.11)
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donpdonp looks like a dependency, its not in the Gemfile
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aaronpk ah
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donpdonp it'll go away once i get mariadb installed
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aaronpk tlehman: welcome
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tlehman jokerswild663: ahoy
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@veganstraightedge Do you still care about OpenID? Want to help/watch https://indieauth.com/ add OpenID support? https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid (twitter.com/_/status/379300096560480256)
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donpdonp ha. i wish we had a streaming webcam
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shaners donpdonp: it'd be very loud. with background coffeeshop noise.
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neuro` donpdonp: https://github.com/fdv/publify/releases/tag/7.0.0 releasing a stable, major version of a soft the day before you start a new job is a good sign :)
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peat ... reference OpenID server: https://github.com/openid/ruby-openid/tree/master/examples/rails_openid
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aaronpk tlehman: here's the etherpad https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid
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tlehman aaronpk: got it, thanks
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peat ... the important server part: https://github.com/openid/ruby-openid/blob/master/examples/rails_openid/app/controllers/server_controller.rb
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donpdonp aaronpk: i think config.yml.template needs a database_url example
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk yep it's missing some things
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aaronpk donpdonp: pushed to https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/tree/openid-server
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donpdonp aaronpk: gotit
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donpdonp aaronpk: openid-server Gemfile has pg gem but dm
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donpdonp dm-mysql-adapter
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aaronpk found a sinatra openid server http://bogomips.org/local-openid/
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tlehman learned the hard way not to Command-K clear a curses application
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peat hah!
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aaronpk hehe I do that all the time
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dpk tlehman: if you do that in screen or irssi you can fix it by changing window back and forth
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dpk probably others too
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erinjorichey.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+302) "/* Sunday AND Monday RSVP */" (view diff)
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tlehman dpk: Screen rules
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tlehman aaronpk: I have successfully authenticated tobilehman.com on indiauth, but I have not been able to log into to slashdot or pragprog
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aaronpk great. you should be able to log in to sites that support indieauth now
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jokerswild663 hi
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@donpdonp The amount of #indieauth at @SistersPearl is palpable. #openid https://twitter.com/donpdonp/status/379312342716010497/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/379312342716010497)
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aaronpk bret: check out https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/blob/master/environment.rb#L39
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aaronpk it's hard-coded for google scopes right now, need to add a case for github
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tlehman jokerswild663: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth
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donpdonp peat:aaronpk: possibly better example for finishing the openid request https://github.com/openid/ruby-openid/blob/master/examples/rails_openid/app/controllers/consumer_controller.rb#L58
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donpdonp than local-openid
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bret http://developer.github.com/v3/oauth/#scopes
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peat aaronpk: https://github.com/openid/ruby-openid/blob/master/lib/openid/store/memory.rb
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peat aaronpk: Lines 206 - 220 in local-openid/lib/local_openid.rb has the signing and response code. "#server" provides a singleton at line 167.
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bret jokerswild663: https://github.com/bcomnes/IndieAuth/commit/5228918072e85422e561fa01911566b56953bd62
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bret jokerswild663: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid
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bret testing 123
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_6a68 hey all!
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_6a68 first time dropping by, have been poking at the wiki a bit
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_6a68 i've got an idea for an app that lets you make artisanal handmade recommendations
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_6a68 as opposed to the current trend of machine learning algo-mediated recommendations
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_6a68 i haven't started writing code yet, and this would be my first little app with indie web in mind
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_6a68 in particular, since this doesn't cleanly hook into existing services, it'll probably start out as its own silo
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_6a68 but i want to make sure it's friendly for POSSE syndication from the start
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_6a68 what
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_6a68 s the best way to support existing tools/microformats?
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_6a68 i'll be in and out all day, feel free to throw links/ideas at me
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aaronpk _6a68: check out http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly
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_6a68 aaronpk: great! thanks :)
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_6a68 aaronpk: so, suppose I want to build a simple API with messages of the form, "if you like X, you should check out Y"
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_6a68 aaronpk: is there any direct path to implementing that with existing formats?
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_6a68 I suppose I could always just construct a JSON API, but I was hoping for something that would just work for people already syndicating
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aaronpk i guess what would this look like on your own site?
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aaronpk what is your personal domain? and what would you publish on it?
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_6a68 aaronpk: i'm still figuring out the ideas, haven't really considered UX yet
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aaronpk well to start with, what's your domain?
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_6a68 aaronpk: couple of use cases:
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aaronpk for your personal identity
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_6a68 aaronpk: ah, i haven't done work to set up any identity tools
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_6a68 aaronpk: i'd probably use 6a68.net for this
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_6a68 aaronpk: btw i hack on mozilla persona with ozten who was at the camp a few months ago, that's how i heard about indie web
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_6a68 aaronpk: anyway, use cases are along the lines of "I write a book/magazine review, then add a few 'if you liked books A, B, or C, you'll love this book X"
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_6a68 aaronpk: and so on for other media, like comparing songs/albums or movies or web content (blog posts)
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_6a68 aaronpk: but maybe i need to set up some kind of identity stuff at my domain, which currently is just running github pages?
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_6a68 looks at indie web wiki some more
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tommorris hey _6a68, welcome to indiewebcamp
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_6a68 tommorris: howdy
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tommorris _6a68: awesome that you work on Persona. I use it on my site for login.
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_6a68 tommorris: awesome! glad to hear it.
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_6a68 tommorris: OT but if you have a bit of time, we'd love to hear your pro/con thoughts on your experience integrating and thoughts on the feature set
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_6a68 tommorris: we've been talking about evolving the APIs to make them simpler, over on the dev-identity list
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_6a68 anyway
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tommorris it was very easy. I'm using Rails, and Omniauth, the plug'n'play auth library for Rails has a Persona module
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_6a68 glad to hear it :)
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tommorris so does Allauth, the Django auth library we use at work for social login
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tommorris (sadly, the app I'm using Allauth for is Facebook-only, but that's because it's a Facebook-based social media campaign.)
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_6a68 nods
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tommorris but in general, I love Persona. I have Firefox Mobile on my Android phone, and I have also tested it from my iPad and it works seamlessly
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_6a68 thanks again. great to hear your experiences have been solid.
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jokerswild663 hello
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tommorris hey jokerswild663
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jokerswild663 so, I am just getting started. I already have a domain. How do I simply test things and get started with the app
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tommorris which app? ;)
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donpdonp bret: wuzzup
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tommorris there are people building indieweb-type projects in all sorts of apps, jokerswild663. some are open source, some are just homebrewed and private, some sit on top of platforms like Wordpress.
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jokerswild663 IndieAuth
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tommorris oh, you want to authenticate with indieauth or run your own indieauth setup?
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tommorris aaronpk can help here. ;)
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jokerswild663 yes
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tommorris indieauth is his baby
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jokerswild663 hey aaronpk, how do I get setup for testing.
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jokerswild663 have the domain setup
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aaronpk jokerswild663: are you able to log in at indieauth.com yet?
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jokerswild663 ye
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jokerswild663 yes
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aaronpk cool, that's all you can do for now until we finish signing the openid request :)
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jokerswild663 okay
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jokerswild663 any tasks / files to investigate?
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barnabywalters btw tommorris, loving the new design! what do the different permalink star colours signify?
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barnabywalters or are they random hash prettyness?
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donpdonp neuro`: i just discovered the short-status feature on publify. http://donpark.org/blog/3Ypy8v
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neuro` donpdonp: do you know you can push them to Twitter (needs some configuration) and even add them to your main feed?
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donpdonp neuro`: i saw the twitter flag. didnt know about the main stream.
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donpdonp neuro`: is there/will there be a way to add an in-reply-to
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donpdonp id like to use the short-satus to add a comment to http://aaronparecki.com/events/2013/07/28/1/indieweb-hack-session
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neuro` donpdonp: already the case with reply to from Twitter
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neuro` donpdonp: in-reply-to using microformats will be added in the next major version
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donpdonp k. cool.
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tantek greetings from Brighton
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tantek is checking out the indieauth-openid work in progress
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barnabywalters evening tantek
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donpdonp waves to tantek
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bret aaronpk forgot tantek in brighton! Crap!
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tantek lol
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tantek and even got diverted to Paris for a few days
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tantek had to go deeper (bwooooooong)
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bret tantek: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid
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tantek bret - I'm there
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bret derp
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bret my favorite section: === Minimum Implementation ===
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bret ahhhhhh: https://github.com/bcomnes/bcomnes.github.io/commit/ebaf666473278ed817e04fb255cad33ea0e3a776
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tantek yeah - just openid 1.0 is enough
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tantek don't need all the crap in 2.0
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bret sooooo, once this works, we can use indieauth on stack overflow
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bret slashdot, sourceforge
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bret what elses?
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bret actually bringing this list to the either pad
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barnabywalters only place I ever used openid was my status.net install
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donpdonp stackoverflow.com
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ShaneHudson We've implemented OpenID recently on the project at work. Not particularly happy about it, but at least we don't have to handle people's data
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barnabywalters I tried on openstreetmap a few times but it never worked properly
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bret list off openID services starting on line 105 https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth-openid
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bret it would be nice to note where IndieAuth is now supported once its working
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ShaneHudson Has anyone done any interviews about IndieWeb? To get it more well known?
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barnabywalters ShaneHudson: there was a little wired article after IWC portland 2013
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_6a68 aaronpk: i put together a little readme just now, to make my ideas explicit. if this is already a thing (especially a microformat for recommendations), I'd love references. https://github.com/6a68/handmade-rex
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bret donpdonp: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Appfog
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tommorris so I'll be able to delegate OpenID to indieauth?
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bret tommorris: yeah!
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tommorris nice.
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ShaneHudson barnabywalters: Ah nice :)
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barnabywalters greetings _6a68
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_6a68 barnabywalters: heya
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bret donpdonp: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/issues/779
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barnabywalters you should check out http://microformats.org/wiki/h-review
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tantek ShaneHudson - see http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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tantek re: interviews
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_6a68 barnabywalkters: awesome, thanks
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tantek should we make a separate page on interviews in particular? or are videos good enough?
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_6a68 *barnabywalters, derp ^^
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tantek also - re: OpenID consumers: #osbridge!
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barnabywalters _6a68: a good place to start for your use case would be to find some real world examples of people publishing this sort of data
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barnabywalters np :)
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ShaneHudson I used to run an interview site (which my mum now runs) so got lots of contacts if you are ever wanting to promote anything
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bret ShaneHudson: have you seen http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb ?
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_6a68 barnabywalters: it's funny, people tend to either publish an event stream (like scrobbling/last.fm) but leave it to machines to analyze, or their recs are buried in lots of prose (eg, blog posts or even amazon reviews).
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_6a68 barnabywalters: your advice is really good, though--I should do some digging. thanks for the recommendation ;-)
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ShaneHudson bret: I hadn't :)
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tantek _6a68 - how do you publish reviews?
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_6a68 tantek: i tend to lurk more than publish, but often it's nestled in a tweet when i do review something
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tantek _6a68 have you considered posting tweets to your own site?
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_6a68 tantek: yes, i'm definitely interested in exploring the indie web tech that's already available
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tantek _6a68 - great! let's start with - add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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_6a68 tantek: the idea of decentralizing/distirbuting non-algorithmically-generated recommendations is partly an excuse to get into indie web stuff
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_6a68 tantek: sweet, looking now
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barnabywalters _6a68: not sure if anything at http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/?tagged=review might be useful examples, I think most of them are straightforward reviews as opposed to specific recommendations
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_6a68 barnabywalters: nice! thanks, i should start a list in the README. i just found http://www.whatshouldireadnext.com/
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tantek ShaneHudson - you should add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people as well!
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_6a68 tantek: I like how adding myself => need to sign into wiki => how to set up domain-based sign-in. that's a great onboarding step
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ShaneHudson Hah there are so many pages on the wiki I've not come across! That is my main problem with wikis, so hard to find stuff without knowing what you're looking for
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shanehudson.net edited /IRC_People (+57) "Added myself." (view diff)
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_6a68 tantek: just updated my homepage + logged into wiki \o/
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6a68.net edited /IRC_People (+50) "Add _6a68" (view diff)
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tantek ShaneHudson - it's ok, when you need something, you search for it, and you find it
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tantek _6a68 woot!
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Loqi :D
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tantek and yes, you figured out our onboarding hack ;)
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_6a68 :-)
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_6a68 thanks for the input, y'all. have to run for the afternoon, i'll be around later on
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aaronpk wooo it's live!
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ShaneHudson aaronpk: What's live?
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donpdonp i just logged into stackoverflow with openid using a delegate of https://www.indieauth.com/openid
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donpdonp http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID
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ShaneHudson donpdonp: Brilliant :D
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barnabywalters woo! nice work
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donpdonp congrats to aaronpk/peat
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@Indie_Auth RT @aaronpk: Going to be hacking on #indieauth tomorrow at Sisters Coffee so it can be used as a replacement for MyOpenID! (http://t.co/dS7… (twitter.com/_/status/379349538416234496)
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aaronpk it's like magic
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ShaneHudson Is it easy to setup?
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aaronpk super easy
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ShaneHudson :)
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@peat Sweet! @Indie_Auth (https://indieauth.com/) now supports #OpenID delegation. I'm officially off http://t.co/kQDwpBJXNw. (twitter.com/_/status/379350021239353344)
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@ShaneHudson RT @peat: Sweet! @Indie_Auth (https://indieauth.com/) now supports #OpenID delegation. I'm officially off http://t.co/kQDwpBJXNw. (twitter.com/_/status/379350074976788481)
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@aaronpk RT @peat: Sweet! @Indie_Auth (https://indieauth.com/) now supports #OpenID delegation. I'm officially off http://t.co/kQDwpBJXNw. (twitter.com/_/status/379350348315373568)
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donpark.org edited /OpenID (+322) "openid relying party tags" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /OpenID (-10) (view diff)
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bret way easy
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aaronparecki.com edited /OpenID (+379) (view diff)
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tobilehman.com edited /OpenID (+56) "/* List of notable websites that consume OpenID */" (view diff)
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@donpdonp RT @peat: Sweet! @Indie_Auth (https://indieauth.com/) now supports #OpenID delegation. I'm officially off http://t.co/kQDwpBJXNw. (twitter.com/_/status/379352750573637632)
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barnabywalters just successfully logged in to stackoverflow and OSM using indieauth — amazing work aaronpk peat!
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barnabywalters tangent: stackoverflow didn’t even pre-fill my “website” profile field with my openid. wat.
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aaronpk barnabywalters: woot!
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Loqi giggles
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@pdxleif RT @peat: Sweet! @Indie_Auth (https://indieauth.com/) now supports #OpenID delegation. I'm officially off http://t.co/kQDwpBJXNw. (twitter.com/_/status/379353566265090048)
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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aaronparecki.com edited /OpenID (-4) "/* Setup */" (view diff)
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@schofeld Site sign in with your own domain name. https://indieauth.com/ from @Indie_Auth looks pretty amazing. (twitter.com/_/status/379355452544651264)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+406) "add openid delegate instructions" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Events (-1) (view diff)
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bret aaronpk: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Bret.io/Main_Page
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tantek bret - still got the ToC at the top?!?
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bret lemmi fix that
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pdxleif When did indieauth's openid consumer support break?
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aaronpk last year some time
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pdxleif There was issues with omniauth's support?
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tantek consuming openids sucks
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aaronpk it would just fail 50% of the time
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek it's why it's dying off
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aaronpk it was the omniauth bit that was broke
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pdxleif openid seems to work well enough for all those sites out there
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aaronpk i still have no idea why it was failing
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page (-18) "Remove TOC" (view diff)
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tantek pdxleif - nah - it's been a pain in every instance I know (to get consuming working)
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aaronpk __NOTOC__ <- kills the toc or __TOC__ forces it to that location
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tantek and most of us here who bothered to try gave up
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page (+9) "Really removed it this time" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (-7) "add TOC to make it easier to click on section links and thus get (semi) permalinks to specific sections" (view diff)
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tantek pdxleif - http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID#Abandonment
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pdxleif Doing auth is more complicated than delegating auth, yes.
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page () "(-2625) Removed stuff off the front page edit into their own page to get a better feel for the changes" (view diff)
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pdxleif The new openid connect is just built on oauth2 using existing providers: http://openid.net/connect/
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bret.io created /User:Bret.io/Main_Page/New_Pages (+2609) "Created page with "== New pages == I think that these could be broken off into new pages or put into the sidebar. === Things for the sidebar === * [[to-do]] - next steps for IndieWebCamp and indi..."" (view diff)
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@peat Instructions on how to use https://indieauth.com/ as an #OpenID delegate: http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID (twitter.com/_/status/379357936696311808)
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aaronpk yeah that stuff makes way more sense
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page (+13) (view diff)
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tantek pdxleif - however, now IndieAuth is simpler than OpenID Connect
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page (-257) "Removed the news section since its in the sidebar now" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Events (+369) "fix markup" (view diff)
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pdxleif Would like to see some representation at the internet identity workshop
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@znmeb RT @peat: Instructions on how to use https://indieauth.com/ as an #OpenID delegate: http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID (twitter.com/_/status/379359145293807616)
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aaronpk pdxleif: when is the next one
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aaronpk oh really soon
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pdxleif Oct 22-24
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page (+10) "Moved the images up" (view diff)
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aaronpk ergh, I don't know if I can go down for that
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pdxleif Next one after that is May 6-8. It's bi-yearly. An unconference, just go and put some cards up on the wall for a talk.
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aaronpk i'm already going to SF twice in october and LA at the end
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pdxleif more travel = more interesting geodata for you to track
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io/Main_Page (-10) "Undo revision 5211 by [[Special:Contributions/Bret.io|Bret.io]] ([[User talk:Bret.io|talk]])" (view diff)
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aaronpk hah
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bret tantek, aaronpk, besides updating it to reflect the current homepage changes, what do you think of this: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Bret.io/Main_Page
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pdxleif Can't you get your work to sponsor "travel in general" for you, in the name of geo-stuff?
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk ouch it's expensive too
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tantek pdxleif - how many IIWs have you been to?
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tantek yeah it's a pseudo-unconference (pricey)
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ShaneHudson Are any of you going to lxjs? Giving my first talk there!
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pdxleif tantek: Just the one in Oct 2012. Work sponsored me. A good portion of it was over my head - spec authors and such.
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tantek pdxleif - I've been several times previously and have given up on IIW
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tantek too diluted by talkers more than creators
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@danabatnag RT @peat: Instructions on how to use https://indieauth.com/ as an #OpenID delegate: http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID (twitter.com/_/status/379361559983566849)
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pdxleif Figure it's a good place to interact with identity people from companies from all over.
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tommorris new rule: anything that has "identity" in the title will most likely end up being filled with people explaining that identity is a hard problem to solve rather than doing anything to try and solve it.
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aaronpk tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 12 karma
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tommorris Hmm. Bloggable.
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (+476) "Consumption Complexity" (view diff)
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pdxleif There's notes from the prior talks online, if you wish: http://iiw.idcommons.net/Main_Page
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tommorris IIW is $375 despite also being sponsored by companies including Microsoft and Google.
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tantek tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 13 karma
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tommorris That virtually guarantees it'll be filled only with people mouthing pieties about how difficult it is to solve the problems of identity without trying to solve them.
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tantek $375 is NOT an unconference - it's a professional pay-for conference
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ShaneHudson tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 17 karma
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tantek yeah I agree, $375 filter in enterprise blowhards
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tommorris this is why many years ago I instituted my 20-rule. I don't pay more than £20/$20/€20 to attend events.
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tantek tommorris - yeah - I make exceptions for conferences with very high concentrations of awesome creative people. E.g. dConstruct, XOXO, YxYY
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tommorris I pay a tiny amount more for Wikimania when I attend. that's usually like €40-50, but it's run by a non-profit.
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aaronpk esri is actually a really good citizen in the identity space. for example you can delegate arcgis.com logins to your own enterprise infrastructure using saml, which means you can even auth against arcgis.com from an auth server that's behind a firewall
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pdxleif Well, then the people in those circles will go on not knowing you exist. It's all OpenID Connect and NSTIC and stuff, there.
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tommorris identity rule now has a URI: http://tommorris.org/posts/8553 ;)
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tantek pdxleif - the beauty of mostly-talker (rather than creator) conferences, is that they don't actually end up making a difference in terms of what gets created. what gets talked about maybe. but not created.
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pdxleif OAuth and Google exist.
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tantek OAuth happened because of a small number of creators on a mailing list - nothing to do with IIW
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tantek Google was pressured publicly and at Social Graph Foo 2008 into implementing OAuth
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pdxleif People working on OAuth specs are well-represented at IIW
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tantek again, nothing to do with OAuth
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tantek sorry, again, nothing to do with IIW
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tantek pdxleif - "people working on OAuth specs" - it's been a cluster***: http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-hell/ (citation)
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tommorris Yes. OAuth proves the case wonderfully.
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tommorris They produced a simple, workable spec. Then the corporate identity working group type people got involved and fucked it all the way to Jupiter and back.
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pdxleif Well, OAuth2 is easier to work with, and I find the spec more readable.
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aaronpk same thing happened with oauth2 though. it was simple until the corporate identity people got involved, now there's like 5 different branches of it
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pdxleif I'm simply saying that engaging people is better for proselytizing than withdrawing.
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tantek.com edited /OAuth (+139) "Criticism" (view diff)
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tantek pdxleif - engaging creators is productive
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tantek engaging talkers is minimally so
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tommorris reminds me of the first time I saw a W3C working group that had a representative from Agfa. You know, the German photographic film manufacturer.
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tantek best way to proselytize is to just ship. especially on your own site.
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tommorris I was like "wait, what exactly are they doing on a working group?" ;)
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tantek.com edited /OAuth (-1) "/* Criticism */ fmt" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2013-09-15-pdx-indieauth-openid-hackathon.jpg]]""
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shanehudson.net edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+122) "Added Jeremy's Beyond Tellerrand (it is incredible)" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /events/2013-09-15-pdx-indieauth-openid-hackathon (+6853) "add notes from etherpad" (view diff)
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aaronpk speaking of shipping... I expect all you guys to add the delegation tags now that it's live! ;) http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID
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@n8ji RT @peat: Instructions on how to use https://indieauth.com/ as an #OpenID delegate: http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID (twitter.com/_/status/379367280624160768)
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tantek aaronpk - on it
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tantek myopenid--
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Loqi myopenid has -1 karma
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tantek.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+1) "/* 2013 */ ]" (view diff)
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tommorris the closure of myopenid is one reason I'm very glad I used tommorris.org and delegated rather than using tommorris.myopenid.com...
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aaronpk the delegation tags look even better than when using a provider like myopenid, because there is no concept of an "indieauth account" you link to, there's just your own domain
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shaners aaronpk: kudos for your work on indieauth + openid, but i have zero need for signin with opened anymore. :/
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk shaners: there's still several sites out there that consume openid that I want to keep signing in to
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shaners sure. totally fair. makes sense for you (and others). just saying, i'm not adding the delegate tags back to iamshane.com
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aaronpk ah
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shaners IWC was the last site i personally needed it for. and that's long since moved on.
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aaronpk i should have added a disclaimer. *if you currently use openid
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shaners but srsly. :star: for doing it.
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shaners ;)
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Loqi I agree
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shaners oh Loqi.
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek has updated tantek.com to point to indieauth
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tommorris openstreetmap uses openid, as does stackoverflow
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aaronpk tantek: w00t
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tommorris if you point your domain to myopenid, it's worth switching to something else, so someone else can't pinch myopenid.com when it expires and log into stuff with your domain
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aaronpk tommorris: excellent point
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tantek and boom - just signed into OSBridge wiki via IndieAuth
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aaronpk sweet!
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tantek Successful verification and log in as user Tantek / Your OpenID is http://tantek.com/ .
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aaronpk it's kind of magical when you see it happen
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tantek good bye myopenid and good riddance
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tommorris doesn't wish good riddance, but is rather sad that it didn't work out
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tommorris myopenid were pretty innovative and did things like two-factor auth long before Google got around to it
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tantek fair enough tommorris
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tantek oh? I didn't know about that
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ShaneHudson I wish there was a way to own domains. If for some reason we lose our domain, going this route, we lose our entire web identity
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pdxleif There's a list of OpenID consumers on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID#List_of_notable_websites_that_consume_OpenID
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tommorris yeah, they did over-the-phone verification. they'd phone you up and read a code out which you typed in
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pdxleif And client certs, if you wanted
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tommorris Yep, that too.
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aaronpk client certs would be fun to add to indieauth.com
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tantek ShaneHudson - we need a way to easily buy domains for a ridiculous number of years, and then share access to it with power of attorney
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tantek and I'd like to see the Internet Archive become a registrar, and accept donations / willings of domains
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aaronpk last time I renewed aaronparecki.com I renewed it to the max, so it's good til 2016 now
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tantek so they can preserve your permalinks for you
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tommorris they also did botbouncer which had one of the best ways of doing CAPTCHA - they showed you a grid of images, and three keywords. you had to pick which keyword was represented by the images.
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tantek with redirects to their latest archive of all your stuff
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ShaneHudson tantek: I love that idea, Internet Archive becoming a registrar
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tantek I've been pitching it for a while
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tantek I'm going to keep bugging Brewster about it and any other Internet Archive folks until it happens.
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tommorris trusts the Internet Archive a lot more than he trusts ICANN.
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ShaneHudson Mine currently runs out in October 2014
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tantek I'd like to see it happen with aaronsw.com for example - not sure who has the keys to it.
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ShaneHudson Yeah I wish we could remove the trust of ICANN, why should they need to own domains to make DNS work? Doesn't make sense
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tommorris To be fair, I trust the sleazy dude who sells drugs under railway bridges more than I trust ICANN.
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ShaneHudson tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 14 karma
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tommorris But, yes, I think a lot of people would be happy to fling a few dollars each year to keep aaronsw's site going.
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ShaneHudson Yeah.. there are so many websites that deserve to be around for the lifetime of the Web
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tlehman http://icannhascheezburger.com/
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ShaneHudson haha
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Loqi rofl
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tlehman those guys seem legit
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ShaneHudson I own books that are hundreds of years old. I doubt any website will become that old
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pdxleif I use to use an alternate root - AlterNIC I think.
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ShaneHudson pdxleif: Hadn't heard of that... interesting.
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tantek pdxleif - re: Google people at IIW
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tantek I have one thing to say about that
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tantek Google doesn't care about federated/distributed/decentralized/user-owned identity
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tantek I went to all the identity-related sessions at Google IO this year
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tantek and ALL of them were all about how to add Google+ sign-in
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tommorris.org edited /OpenID (+346) "/* Consumption Complexity */ spec bloat, ReallyOpenID." (view diff)
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tantek ALL of them
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pdurbin sad
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tantek Google's answer to identity is "Add Google+ Sign-in because here are the benefits you get as a consumer of Google+ identities"
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tommorris Google+ identities are awesome. They'll call up my closeted trans friends' Christian fundamentalist parents and ask them to send a scan of their passport and/or delete their Gmail.
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tantek wow
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tommorris Not a real example.
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pdurbin well, at least sites like Stack Overflow allow you associate multiple OpenIDs with your account... maybe other systems too such as OAuth these days...
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aaronpk tantek: wow how many sessions can you have about adding google+ sign-in?
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tommorris But I know people who will have all sorts of fun with sites like Google+ when they change their name and public gender ascription.
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tommorris obligatory link to http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Who_is_harmed_by_a_%22Real_Names%22_policy%3F :)
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tantek aaronpk a lot. profiles. apps. etc.
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aaronpk huh, guess so
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pdxleif G+ is implementing OpenID Connect.
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tantek pdxleif - yeah as a provider
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tantek same problem as before with OpenID
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tantek none of the silos want to be a consumers
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tantek all of them want you to use them as your provider - so they own you
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tommorris just logged into openstreetmap with tommorris.org openid-ed through indieauth
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tantek so who cares if G+ is implementing OpenID Connect?
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tommorris The OpenID Foundation's Intellectual Property Rights Policy is only available as... PDF or Word.
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aaronpk wow
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tlehman facepalm
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tommorris http://i.qkme.me/3pevg4.jpg
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aaronpk aw
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tantek and this is why we don't waste our time with more new foundations
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tantek tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 15 karma
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@habitmelon Great hackathon with @aaronpk, @donpdonp and other @IndieWebCamp folks, #IndieAuth now provides OpenID support! #ownyouridentity (twitter.com/_/status/379374971434180608)
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habitmelon I should use a more consistent naming scheme
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Loqi fo sho
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tantek habitmelon and then add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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tantek and hey you too pdxleif! http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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aaronpk pdxleif left. I think we scared him off :(
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tommorris didn't know that pdxleif is a fellow linked-data freak. :)
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tantek aaronpk - yeah, he kept uttering bubble after bubble after bubble :(
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tantek (that have long since been burst)
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tantek so here's the question, why are people so susceptible into buying into $375 unconference bullshit?
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tommorris.org edited /OpenID (+44) "/* List of notable websites that consume OpenID */ +openstreetmap" (view diff)
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tobilehman.com edited /IRC_People (+61) "Add myself" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: working in a big company, want to do something good, get offered the chance to be on some kind of collaborative working group on something. it may get nothing done, but if you are in a big enough company, you probably don't get a huge amount done internally anyway.
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aaronpk hey who is barryfrost.com?
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tobilehman.com edited /IRC_People (+0) "sort manually" (view diff)
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aaronpk he's got a sweet site!
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aaronpk http://barryfrost.com/posts/4
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aaronpk he even implemented indieweb likes!
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ShaneHudson Not sure I know him.. only got three people in common on twitter (although one is stephen fry lol). Appears to be very into indie web though
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tobilehman.com edited /IRC_People (-1) "sort(1) all the names" (view diff)
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tobilehman.com created /User:Tobilehman.com (+179) "Fill out my wiki page" (view diff)
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adactio That Barry Frost has a niiiiice set up: http://barryfrost.com/colophon
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aaronpk wow
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aaronpk that's a great page
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@aaronpk @barryf I really like your http://barryfrost.com/colophon page! I might have to pilfer that format for my own... #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/15/2/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/379382350854881280)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-09-15-pdx-indieauth-openid-hackathon (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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tommorris and he does SMS posts via Twilio.
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tommorris win.
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aaronpk yeah!
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@habitmelon IndieAuth now supports OpenID delegation! http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/379383407563657216)
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@aaronpk IndieAuth now supports OpenID delegation! Bye-bye MyOpenID! http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/379383934343077889)
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@Indie_Auth RT @aaronpk: IndieAuth now supports OpenID delegation! Bye-bye MyOpenID! http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/379384348488658945)
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tantek tommorris - you're right, it's sad to see myopenid go. They did *ship* after all, and never pulled any evil stunts
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aaronpk adactio: this is awesome! http://adactio.com/journal/6495/
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tantek retracts his good riddance.
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adactio aaronpk: Thanks!
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@domenicoperri IndieAuth now supports OpenID delegation! - Aaron Parecki http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/379384885263085568)
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tantek aaronpk, adactio: http://adactio.com/journal/6495/#comment-container
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tantek :D
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tantek aaronpk, specifically: http://adactio.com/journal/6495/#comment470
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aaronpk wait what
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tantek "we must go deeper"
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aaronpk oh my
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aaronpk did you send the webmention from the indiewebcamp irc logs?
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tantek >:D
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aaronpk hahaha
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tommorris prints out the dodgeball-syntax page from µfwiki to think about on the train
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aaronpk *whew* ok
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aaronpk i'm done
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aaronpk shuld probably eat something
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@habitmelon RT @aaronpk: IndieAuth now supports OpenID delegation! Bye-bye MyOpenID! http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/379386637903335424)
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shaners and Barry's site is a Rails 4 app
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shaners adactio: do you have a visual redesign cooking too?
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tantek hey - we should get github to markup gists with h-entry
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tantek e.g. https://gist.github.com/adactio/6575229
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tantek It's essentially a post
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shaners tantek: i'll talk to some people about it
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adactio shaners: I don't. But when I redesign, I don't replace the existing design
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adactio I add the new design as a theme (see the "customise" widget on my site)
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tantek dt-published: Created 3 minutes ago (converted to ISO obv)
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tantek p-name: The form I put at the end of every blog post I make so that you can ping my webmention endpoint with your response.
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tantek p-author h-card { gravatar image, adactio, https://gist.github.com/adactio }
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shaners adactio: ah
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shaners tantek: mark it up in a gist and i'll get some friends there to look at it
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tantek and looks like the <td class="line-data"> would be <td class="line-data p-content">
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aaronpk tantek: awesome idea
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tantek shaners - this is sufficient information: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-09-15#t1379288220
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tantek a gist that has all the markup of a gist would be very wordy
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tantek easier to just point out the bits to be marked up like the above in plain text
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shaners k
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tantek and spec link obv: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
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shaners obvs
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tantek shaners - and on our end, if there's *any* questions or issues or complaints about h-entry spec (even just - "this is not obvious" type stuff) - please pass along so we can improve it
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shaners nods
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@geekcode RT @aaronpk: IndieAuth now supports OpenID delegation! Bye-bye MyOpenID! http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/379390721662271489)