#indiewebcamp 2013-09-28

2013-09-28 UTC
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tantek catches up on the logs
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tantek vyrpan - great post and well done!
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tantek http://blog.vrypan.net/2013/09/27/crafting-my-blog/
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shaners is anyone using hMedia / h-media for photos/videos/audios?
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shaners is anyone using hMedia / h-media for photos/videos/audios?
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@bethelightwrite Did you all see today's #CoverReveal? If not, take a look! http://andreagoodson.wordpress.com/ #rt #share #indieauth #NA #romanticsuspense (twitter.com/_/status/383774649416290304)
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@danamason06 RT @bethelightwrite: Did you all see today's #CoverReveal? If not, take a look! http://andreagoodson.wordpress.com/ #rt #share #indieauth #NA #romantics… (twitter.com/_/status/383775130331410432)
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@CedrickMay RT @mcburton: .@captain_primate's arguments for open scholarship remind me of the #indieweb movement http://indiewebcamp.com/principles #detroitdh (twitter.com/_/status/383786944536125440)
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@xtof_fr @EXCPU Merci. #OpenKitchen ouvert : quelques pbs soulevés par #indieweb sur le protocole #webfinger. #RSVP http://christopheducamp.com/w/2013-271 (twitter.com/_/status/383868358216527872)
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vrypan Thanks, tantek.
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@voxpelli @bolstad Samma här, tycker dock @indiewebcamp ser mer lovande ut – lite av en andra generationens decentraliseringsvÃ¥g som fÃ¥tt bra moment (twitter.com/_/status/383954634139643905)
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squeakytoy thats swedish :<
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@voxpelli @bolstad Kolla exempelvis in http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention – kommer fixa in det pÃ¥ min blogg ganska snart (har en Disqus-liknande lösning pÃ¥ gÃ¥ng) (twitter.com/_/status/383954962146807808)
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squeakytoy I have just finished writing the first version of the squiso manifesto (squiso is a project i am working on to create a more en social web) https://sites.google.com/a/squiso.com/opensquiso-wiki/the-squiso-manifesto <-- It is a first version, but what do you guys think? Does it make sense? Any feedback would be appreciated :-)
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bret squeakytoy ill check it out
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tantek greetings from Science Hack Day!
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi giggles
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squeakytoy I just had a skype meeting with a mentor, brainstorm-mentor, about an idea i have, and I kinda feel shot down afterwards.
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bret squeakytoy, I read over the squisio manifesto
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squeakytoy bret, oh, really? wow ok
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squeakytoy bret, be honest and direct
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bret they sound like good goals, and that there is a lot of overlap with http://indiewebcamp.com/principles
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bret it is still just a manifesto though, which is fairly abstract, so I'm still somewhat confused, but let me know if I have this straight
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bret have you decided upon any existing standards for data exchange?
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bret also, how do you plan to make this useful to people when everyone still uses facebook and twitter currently, aka the monocoulture pitfal http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture
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squeakytoy bret, existing standards, such as?
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bret depends on what you are wanting to do, a number of us have been experimenting with microformats and semantic htmk data, but there are all sorts of existing social data exchange formats such as activity streams, json-ld etc
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bret html*
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squeakytoy i know that indiewebcamp is all about microformats, and thats great. My project isn't at that stage yet, where it can be integrated.
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squeakytoy I know my project is hugly confusing, and I am working hard to shed some light on it, making it more clear
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squeakytoy bret, currently, data is passed around as json.
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bret have you using existing json vocabulary
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bret ack
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bret have you considered using an existing json vocab standard?
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squeakytoy bret, concerning the monoculture, my project can't develop that problem, its impossible. The project defines a "common language", all you need to do, is follow the same standards, and you and me can create a network
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squeakytoy bret, mm, not really
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bret that is the monoculture, aka all you have to do is x
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bret monoculture issue
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squeakytoy well, you can't create a network if no one does the same thing
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squeakytoy thats technically impossible
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bret which is also part of something that the microfomats approach to data exchange struggles with to some degree
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squeakytoy i just think squiso is a really cool idea
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squeakytoy but i am currently doing a lousy job explaining it, i think
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bret projects like falcon started not with a separate network, but with the goal of owning ones identity online, and thus posting original content to their own site, and posting copies to silos, creating immediate value for people running it
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squeakytoy that sounds like a monoculture
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bret im not sure what you mean
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squeakytoy how did it post to your own site?
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bret its an approach to breaking wayay from the existing networks
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Loqi woot
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bret away*
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squeakytoy ah ok
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squeakytoy i misunderstood, sorry :-)
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bret diaspora is an awsome project, but its common to hear that it 'failed'
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bret it was its own separate network, and thus, people were not switching
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squeakytoy diaspora is a monoculture, right?
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squeakytoy yupp yupp
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bret that would be an example yes, I think
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squeakytoy i spoke with simon t found of buddycloud last week as well
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squeakytoy he is my "mozilla mentor" - ish, he gave me great input tho
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squeakytoy its cool, creating a new distributed social network, but.. why?
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squeakytoy its just a new system
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squeakytoy thats why i enjoy my project more
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squeakytoy but its a personal graal now
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bret i would start with something that is of fairly immediate value to yourself
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bret because if you can't manage that, how is it going to be of value to others, you know?
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squeakytoy yupp yupp
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squeakytoy there is a famous phrase about that :-)
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squeakytoy but i cant remember it now
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bret if that is something you care about of course ;)
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squeakytoy to make a product, where you use it yourself
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bret squeakytoy. when assessing standards, a good way to assess the value of it is to see if the authors use it themselves
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squeakytoy yupp yupp :-)
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squeakytoy found you online as well
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squeakytoy .io domain is cool
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bret my humble attempts at indieweb :)
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vrypan Has anyone worked on the scalability of indieweb proposals? I mean, hosting one's own social stream, etc is nice but maintaing the infrastructure and being able to serve thousands of requests per second whenever your ideas or thoughts get slashdotted (not sure of the modern equivalent ) is not trivial...
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aaronpk serving thousands of requests per second of static html is nearly trivial
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aaronpk but yea not everyone has a static html site
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vrypan aaronpk I totally agree!
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vrypan I was getting to it. I put some thought on how I've set up my presence (not the perfect indieweb example, but kind of good), and I think there is an architecture that could help: http://blog.vrypan.net/2013/09/28/dli-distribution-logic-interfaces/
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vrypan I'd really appreciate any thoughts on it.
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aaronpk cool, can't read right now
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vrypan It's actually about keeping ownership of the things that matter (logic, content) and outsourcing the things that should scale (distribution and interfaces).
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aaronpk cool, that's something I've been thinking about a lot too
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aaronpk that's also the thinking behind PubSubHubbub
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aaronpk feel free to add some more details abotu that here as well: http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models
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tantek squeakytoy - you're looking for http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
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tantek aaronpk, vyrpan, yes, serving thousands of requests per second of static html is trivial with today's servers / hosts / virtual hosts
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tantek if you can do it with one php script and one flat storage file access, that's also trivial (with today's servers)
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tantek (that's what I'm doing with falcon for viewing any permalink. executes one php file, falcon.php, which determines algorithmically from the permalink which flat storage file to read, and then generates the permalink page accordingly)
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tantek (zero database accesses)
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tantek squeakytoy - also regarding monoculture - I'm not sure you understand how easily it is to fall into it.
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tantek you claim your project can't develop that problem, and yet, you start with the assumption that "all you need to do, is follow" the new "common language" that your "project defines". that sounds like a new monoculture.
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tantek you should instead make *your project* follow the common languages of existing efforts
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tantek also regarding: "I know my project is hugly confusing, and I am working hard to shed some light on it, making it more clear" - the answer to that is selfdogfooding
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tantek selfdogfood by building and deploying bits of your project on your own domain, and then talk about those bits
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tantek if you haven't built it nor deployed it, then advocating it makes little to no sense.
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vrypan tantek Ideally, I'd like to be able to serve my entire on-line presence from a computer at home: own the whole thing from iron to bits :-) Practically, this is not impossible, but it really hard for most people. That's why I tried to split the components. That's what the "DLI" is about.
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tantek vrypan - the potential future is to edit/serve your entire online presence from a device in your pocket as well, which asynchronously synchronizes with a static cache "in the cloud" (e.g. akamai) whenever it gets connectivity.
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vrypan I totally agree. "Naming" the components, makes it easier to think about them and letting other people know how a proposed solution fits in their architecture. I'm not saying DLI is the right way to think about it, but if it were, it would make my life much easier if I one that service X is a "distribution component" or that mycrazyservice.io is an "input interface".
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bret aaronpk, I think i hosed this PR, but https://github.com/converspace/webmention/pull/26 now has a working webmention site via jekyll
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bret it turned into a slightly larger project
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bret !tell barnabywalters If you have time, would you check out https://github.com/converspace/webmention/pull/26 and see what you think?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret crap, when did we change from rel="http://webmention.org/" to rel="webmention"
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@djlwq RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/384081849204871168)
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@pypi webmentiontools 0.3.2: Tools for http://t.co/EwHCjg1mY3. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/webmentiontools/0.3.2 (twitter.com/_/status/384088071269937153)
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