#indiewebcamp 2013-11-05

2013-11-05 UTC
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bret way cool
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crossdiver not a site shutdown, more like a blackout: http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/11/04/merging-of-google-voice-and-hangouts-will-result-shutting-down-all-3rd-party-voice-apps-in-may-2014/
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KevinMarks aaronpk - having the parsed microformats in JSON in <script> tags?
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aaronpk KevinMarks: we were thinking <pre> tags so that the HTML page is human readable if you open it in a browser
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KevinMarks won't that still have escaping issues?
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KevinMarks can you have " in <pre> ?
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aaronpk well I think you'd have to make sure all characters inside ar valid HTML entities, but assuming you do that (which you should do since this is an HTML document) it would be easy to decode
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JonathanNeal Have any of you used Flowdock? Is there a way to do something like flowdock between private sites?
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JonathanNeal Simply, is there something like web chat done from sites?
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aaronpk there's no reason you couldn't extend what we're doing here to work that way: http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging
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aaronpk especially with http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/10/13/1/realtime-indieweb-comments
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JonathanNeal I wonder if there would be a way to have private comments, what with referrer spoofing.
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aaronpk what does referrer spoofing have to do with private comments?
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JonathanNeal Oh, I guess they have to validate each other.
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JonathanNeal I was concerned that you could intercept a message by saying you're another site asking for a comment.
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@t My notes often push all blog posts off my home page. So I built a sidebar box of three Recent Articles. #indiewebcamp (ttk.me t4St1) (twitter.com/_/status/397563410030002176)
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@create_sense “@t: My notes often push all blog posts off my home page. So I built a sidebar box of three Recent Articles. #indiewebcamp (ttk.me t4St1)” (twitter.com/_/status/397563882895843328)
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KevinMarks aaronpk: if Bob has to be at his computer at some point, can he generate the IndieAuth token then, and have it cached for future messages?
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KevinMarks if so it's a bit like the UX flow now for xmpp
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aaronpk KevinMarks: interesting, haven't thought of it quite that way before, although did write up a chunk on this http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging#Bob_is_not_at_his_computer
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KevinMarks yes, I just read that bit. It does require Bob's server to maintain state somewhere though
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@benwerd @aaronpk I'll check it out! Thanks! Also, I really like your manual webmention box :) (twitter.com/_/status/397569603468922880)
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KevinMarks Wonder if there's a way to pre-auth with rel="friend" links. Probably makes more ux sense if there is a pending message though
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aaronpk what's the flow you're imagining?
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KevinMarks when Bob adds people into a rel-friend list, he generates a token for each of them to be used in future private webmentions
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KevinMarks though then who you correspond with is public
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aaronpk oh interesting
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aaronpk doesn't that also require Bob's friends servers to maintain that token though?
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KevinMarks mind you, you could selective disclose friends on the server too, using the auth technique
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KevinMarks they need to look it up on his indieauth server as in your flow - the challenge was Bob making it ahead fo time
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KevinMarks old post of mine on adding Auth headers to 200 responses: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2008/05/mixing-degrees-of-publicness-in-http.html
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@aaronpk @benwerd You're talking about scribeminder or my webmention form? (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/11/04/5/) (twitter.com/_/status/397571857148162050)
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@benwerd @aaronpk Scribeminder :) I'm sure your webmention form works well. (twitter.com/_/status/397571972969684993)
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aaronpk KevinMarks: yeah, I like the train of thought on that
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aaronpk "the server could return a 200, but include a WWW-Authenticate: OAuth header to indicate that more information is available if you authenticate correctly"
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aaronpk I'm getting to that point where I'm going to need to do that
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KevinMarks I think that should be benign
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aaronpk I'm going to be publishing more details on my travel than is currently here: http://aaronparecki.com/travel, but I want to only show some pieces depending on who the visitor is
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KevinMarks right, which is that usecase exactly
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aaronpk totally
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aaronpk i hadn't thought too much about the protocol side yet, was trying to imagine how to visually indicate to people that there is more information if you log in
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@aaronpk @benwerd Thanks! Credit for that goes to @adactio! http://adactio.com/journal/6495/ (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/11/04/3/indieweb-webmention) (twitter.com/_/status/397570767321169920)
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KevinMarks Gather existing patterns I suppose - FB has a little overlay box saying 'Kevin Marks is on Facebook. To connect with Kevin, sign up for Facebook today. Sign Up | Log In'
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aaronpk unfortunately a lot of the existing patterns for this are for things like linkedin, where they want to entice you to sign up for an account before seeing someone's full profile, but they do it in a kind of shady way
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KevinMarks Twitter says eg "@blech's tweets are protected. Only confirmed followers have access to @blech's Tweets and complete profile. Click the "Follow" button to send a follow request."
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aaronpk interesting, Twitter's message is phrased in a way that respects the user, but Facebook's message is all about facebook.
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KevinMarks well, it is a slightly different use case - private accounts are rarer on twitter, so they need to explain more
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aaronpk suppose so, but the message makes it clear that it was @blech's choice to make his account private
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KevinMarks If I'm logged into fb it says 'Do you know Kevin? To see what he shares with friends, send him a friend request. [Add Friend] '
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aaronpk that's better
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Jihaisse Hello
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@aral @Freerange_Inc There are many initiatives around IndieWeb & open source in general. And yet more very clever people to work with :) (twitter.com/_/status/397643845766492160)
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: My notes often push all blog posts off my home page. So I built a sidebar box of three Recent Articles. #indiewebcamp (ttk.me t4St1) (twitter.com/_/status/397701008429572096)
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Jihaisse Hell yeah
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Jihaisse http://jihais.se/2013/11/04/france4tv-herocorpf4/
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Jihaisse with automatic rel=u-syndication
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barnabywalters Jihaisse: nice!
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barnabywalters looks like the multiple-h-card issue is still there
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barnabywalters pfefferle: I thought the wordpress h-entry + hentry on different elements problem was fixed?
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Jihaisse hum, I haven't updated sempress
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Jihaisse from github
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barnabywalters ah okay
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Jihaisse I uses the one from wordpress.org
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Jihaisse so, if pfefferle didn't make a new version with the fix…
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barnabywalters other than that, looking great!
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Jihaisse this may be explain that
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: thanks
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pfefferle will add a new version soon
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Jihaisse playing with class from another plugin is not very easy
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pfefferle it is a long process to get a theme approved so i hate doing it ;)
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Jihaisse a lot of "die and retry"
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Jihaisse pfefferle: the theme is always reviewed ?
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pfefferle yes
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Jihaisse okay
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pfefferle because of hidden links and stuff
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Jihaisse for sure
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Jihaisse The plugin need some refactoring
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Jihaisse and some translation
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Jihaisse will look at it tomorow
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pfefferle jihaisse let me know if i can help in any way
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Jihaisse pfefferle: if you can point me on a article about translation ;)
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pfefferle oh… what os do you use?
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pfefferle windows, linux, mac?
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Jihaisse pfefferle: translation on wordpress plugin ?
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Jihaisse I'm on mac
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pfefferle ok, then try http://www.poedit.net/
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pfefferle it generates all files from the source-code of your plugin
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pfefferle http://codex.wordpress.org/Translating_WordPress
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pfefferle it's a bit trial and error
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Jihaisse :) ok
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Jihaisse I get used to translations
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pfefferle lost in translations ;)
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Jihaisse :)
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@lehawes .@caseorganic talking #indieweb principle of owning your content on a personal server. Extending to computing device ecosystem. #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397773844338835456)
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@lehawes If you want to hear more about personal data server and ownership, please come to Breakout 2 at 10:50. #defragcon #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/397775537931698176)
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@windley RT @lehawes: If you want to hear more about personal data server and ownership, please come to Breakout 2 at 10:50. #defragcon #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/397775663559487488)
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KevinMarks Benwerd, are you around?
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@jessebmiller Thanks @aaronpk. Agreed. That's definitely something to consider when joining any silo. Without an API thought, the point is moot. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/397780165847052288)
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@TheOEM @lehawes is breaking down people and purpose-driven networks in history. Introducing #indieweb now (network of people and tech) #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397784888512102400)
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@graemethickins Larry Hawes/DowBrook Advisory Svcs, "People & Purpose in the Bigger Network of Smaller Things".. cites #indieweb #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397785208646168577)
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@jordanwb #indieweb movement seeks to coexist with web's silos (i.e. Facebook) rather than break them down @lehawes (twitter.com/_/status/397785299612233728)
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barnabywalters well, break them down by attrition of gradual devaluation
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@rzazueta Central tenets of the #Indieweb movement. @lehawes #defragcon https://twitter.com/rzazueta/status/397785714957365248/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/397785714957365248)
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@snijim RT @rzazueta: Central tenets of the #Indieweb movement. @lehawes #defragcon https://twitter.com/rzazueta/status/397785714957365248/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/397785819806588928)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp! (back in SF :) )
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@jordanwb #indieweb: 1) own domain name, serves as ID 2) POSSE = publish on own site syndicate elsewhere 3) option of own server #defragcon @lehawes (twitter.com/_/status/397786063881523200)
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tantek Awesome @lehawes! A bunch of us met him at the osfw3c thing in August: http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/osfw3c
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@TheOEM RT @jordanwb: #indieweb: 1) own domain name, serves as ID 2) POSSE = publish on own site syndicate elsewhere 3) option of own server #defra… (twitter.com/_/status/397786334926229504)
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@graemethickins central tenets of #indieweb movement... started with an Indie Web Camp in 2010, says @lehawes #defragcon https://twitter.com/graemethickins/status/397786659032293376/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/397786659032293376)
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@batobey Listening to @lehawes & considering how #indieweb might fit w/@personaldata and #personalcloud providers. (twitter.com/_/status/397786887127318528)
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_6a68 holy scrollback
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tantek so, can we realtime annotate and correct these? :)
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@jordanwb Hmm, will #indieweb always stay indie, or are these principles non-geeks can emulate? @lehawes #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397787070292168704)
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@rzazueta Sample #indieweb projects: IRC, http://t.co/dD6XXS4CbP, OpenID, diaspora. #defragcon @lehawes (twitter.com/_/status/397787163586097153)
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@windley At #defragcon @lehawes talks about #indieweb. Ideas compatible with personal clouds. (twitter.com/_/status/397787196431683584)
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@jordanwb RT @rzazueta: Sample #indieweb projects: IRC, http://t.co/dD6XXS4CbP, OpenID, diaspora. #defragcon @lehawes (twitter.com/_/status/397787238018191360)
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@TheOEM Solid examples of #indieweb projects (#OpenID, #WordPress, #diaspora). Very cool! @lehawes #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397787285401636864)
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aaronpk wow!
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@the_spinmd The importance of #indieweb cannot be overstated. /@lehawes #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397787503123374080)
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@vbench1099 #indieweb = #principles #selfdogfood #design via @lehawes #defragcon https://twitter.com/vbench1099/status/397787636296724480/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/397787636296724480)
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aaronpk now I kind of wish I had gone to defragcon!
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@the_spinmd .@ownCloud gets a nod from @lehawes during his #indieweb talk at #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397788006008238080)
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@graemethickins Lee Hawes cites sample #IndieWeb projects: Wordpress, OpenID, diaspora, p3k, Pump.io, idno, owncloud, IndieAuth, and more... #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397788375194693632)
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@kevinmarks RT @the_spinmd: The importance of #indieweb cannot be overstated. /@lehawes #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397788469222580224)
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@jordanwb #indieweb projects centered on owning own content: http://t.co/GuQjM7xF8i, pump.io, idno.co, http://owncloud.org #defragcon @lehawes (twitter.com/_/status/397788809678438401)
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@rzazueta RT @jordanwb: #indieweb projects centered on owning own content: http://t.co/GuQjM7xF8i, pump.io, idno.co, http://owncloud.org #defragco… (twitter.com/_/status/397788846760280064)
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@TheOEM Shout out to @caseorganic as a driver of the #indieweb movement! @lehawes #defragcon https://twitter.com/TheOEM/status/397789064692129792/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/397789064692129792)
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@t @graemethickins #defragcon IndieWeb movement started 2010 post #FSW2010 First IndieWebCamp 2011 http://indiewebcamp.com/timeline#2010 (ttk.me t4Su1) (twitter.com/_/status/397789114671849472)
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aaronpk kind of funny to not have names under the faces, lol https://twitter.com/TheOEM/status/397789064692129792/photo/1
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@TheOEM Shout out to @caseorganic as a driver of the #indieweb movement! @lehawes #defragcon https://twitter.com/TheOEM/status/397789064692129792/photo/1
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tantek aaronpk - seriously!
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tantek you know that @lehawes is the guy I reached out to at osfw3c in August right?
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tantek seems like he absorbed my Indieweb principles talk quite well! http://tantek.com/2013/220/t4/indieweb-principles-ownyourdata-selfdogfood-posse
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aaronpk I remember him! we met him there, right?
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@rzazueta This morning's talks have all been about owning your data. Personal servers, personal clouds, #indieweb. Awesome. #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397789581715582976)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @the_spinmd: The importance of #indieweb cannot be overstated. /@lehawes #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397789699579723777)
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@lehawes RT @the_spinmd: The importance of #indieweb cannot be overstated. /@lehawes #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397791088657694720)
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@lehawes @jordanwb This may be the biggest challenge faced by #indieweb, hence their focus on UX first, formats/protocols second. #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397791428568309760)
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@lehawes RT @jordanwb: #indieweb: 1) own domain name, serves as ID 2) POSSE = publish on own site syndicate elsewhere 3) option of own server #defra… (twitter.com/_/status/397791665991077888)
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@t #Roadmap2013 @Jack: "...principle at the company Show don't tell." Sounds familiar https://twitter.com/giyom/status/393169720729296898 #indieweb (ttk.me t4Su2) (twitter.com/_/status/397791871050973184)
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@giyom RT @t: #Roadmap2013 @Jack: "...principle at the company Show don't tell." Sounds familiar https://twitter.com/giyom/status/393169720729296898 #indieweb (ttk.me t4Su2) (twitter.com/_/status/397793073926660096)
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@lehawes .@windley gives a shout out for Camlistore, an active #indieweb project, at #defragcon. (twitter.com/_/status/397793774291537921)
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aaronpk tantek: what is your post about? I don't get it
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tantek aaronpk - yes - we met him there
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tantek what do you not get?
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aaronpk what is the reference to roadmap2013, jack, and in what way are you linking to giyom's tweet?
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tantek lehawes was one of the few other people also posting/tweeting at osfw3c using the hashtag - so I specifically sought him ought and introduced myself to him, and then connected him to you, benwerd, etc.
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tantek so glad he got the "their focus on UX first, formats/protocols second"
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tantek roadmap2013 is a conference
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tantek happening right now at Yerba Buena Center in SF
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tantek that was a live-ish tweet
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tantek quoting @Jack
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tantek noting that "Show don't tell" was previously stated by @caseorganic as an indieweb principle
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tantek that post is more readable on Twitter or my site than here in IRC because I used line-breaks
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@jordanwb RT @lehawes: @jordanwb This may be the biggest challenge faced by #indieweb, hence their focus on UX first, formats/protocols second. #defr… (twitter.com/_/status/397795537614692353)
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@JeckertNY RT @the_spinmd: .@ownCloud gets a nod from @lehawes during his #indieweb talk at #defragcon (twitter.com/_/status/397798405805584384)
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@caseorganic @hoffboy Talk on #indieweb from #krtconf http://caseorganic.com/notes/2013/10/22/2/realtimeconf-indieweb-ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/397799703493877760)
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Jeena I think this guy has a really great Idea with the updates http://blogg.forteller.net/2013/first-steps/
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@jordanbraun RT @t: #Roadmap2013 @Jack: "...principle at the company Show don't tell." Sounds familiar https://twitter.com/giyom/status/393169720729296898 #indieweb (ttk.me t4Su2) (twitter.com/_/status/397802816095277056)
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tantek aaronpk - kevinmarks and I are both here at #roadmap2013
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aaronpk ah cool!
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tantek did my post make more sense?
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aaronpk yes, wasn't clear that it was a @jack quote, and didn't know you were at that event. there's just so much abbreviation in that post!
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tantek hmm - leading with a hashtag is a convention for scoping to that subject, suffix with the year implies an annual event (often a conference)
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aaronpk yeah, it all makes sense logically and now that I'm looking for it, but I didn't parse it that way at first
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tantek @-name immediately after such a event-scoped hashtag implies speaker at that event, especially if it's @-name: (followed by a colon)
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tantek KevinMarks has been using this format for years of live-tweeting conferences: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks
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tantek I even broke my quote into a *blockquote* (with linebreaks) and explicit quotation marks
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aaronpk I think also I didn't understand the quote because it doesn't read as a sentence or part of a sentence
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tantek it does with line breaks - it was the loss of those linebreaks here in IRC that brought the confusion
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aaronpk what company? should it have been "...principle at the company: Show don't tell"
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aaronpk I read it on twitter.com first
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tantek right, a colon there would have helped
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tantek hey I can fix that on my site :)
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aaronpk convenient :)
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barnabywalters new php-mf2-shim v0.2.2 — now parses profile page h-cards and h-entries successfully https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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barnabywalters on twitter.com
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tantek ooh!
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tantek nicely done barnabywalters!
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barnabywalters thanks tantek — how’s the conference going?
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bret lehaws... from
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bret from ford no?
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bret way ciol
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bret cool*
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tantek barnabywalters - interesting presentations. the Tinder CEO just spoke to a mixed reaction in the audience
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barnabywalters not heard of it
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tantek it's the new hot dating happ
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barnabywalters oh that’s clever. questionable, but clever
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barnabywalters what was the CEO talking about? the app?
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tantek yeah - there's a bunch on the #roadmap2013 hashtag
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tantek check out this interview with Jack Dorsey: http://gigaom.com/2013/11/05/how-jack-dorsey-approached-the-payments-market-as-a-buyer/
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tantek note the prominent "tweet this" button/link at the foot of the blockquote
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tantek clicking it puts up a tweet web action interstitial popup with the heading: "Share a link with your followers"
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tantek and a textfield filled in with:
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tantek From @gigaom: "“We wanted to make something internally that we feel great about, that we feel is something that..." http://gigaom.com/2013/11/05/how-jack-dorsey-approached-the-payments-market-as-a-buyer/
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KevinMarks See also my notes kevinmarks.com/roadmapnotes.html
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tantek the quote is an elided abbreviation of the blockquote in the article that is linked to
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KevinMarks That seems a weak pull quote
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tantek KevinMarks - I was commenting more on the in-content use of a webaction
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tantek the UI as it were
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KevinMarks I need advice on better indie markup for pages like that
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tantek *inside* the article content
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tantek rather than what Jack was actually saying
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KevinMarks I could make each line retweetable like that?
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tantek isn't each of those lines its own tweet?
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tantek why linking to https://twitter.com/@jack instead of https://twitter.com/jack ?
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tantek KevinMarks, yes - you could make each of those retweetable
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tantek if you're saving the tweet id from each tweet
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tantek e.g. see my Retweet web action in the footer of any of my notes: http://tantek.com/2013/309/t4/roadmap2013-design-process-focus-fira-firefoxos
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KevinMarks Because I spliced the string wrong (it does work)
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KevinMarks Its the fallback if they don't list a url in their twitter bio
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KevinMarks Each line was a tweet, though they should be notes too
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tantek so at a minimum you could link each one to its permalink
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tantek and in addition you could put favorite, retweet, reply icons/buttons next to each one
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KevinMarks A Note layout world be ordered the other way
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KevinMarks I should break each session into a Post and mark that up with a title
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Loqi I agree
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tantek KevinMarks - not necessarily - I think your order looks good
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tantek it's much more readable
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tantek I think your current ordering of sentences and speakers is correct
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KevinMarks Also should make a better hCard that has url and twitter url in?
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tantek it's the known live-blogging order
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KevinMarks It is, but worth making a separate post for Jack, for Vernon etc etc
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KevinMarks Veen*
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tantek sure - if you're actually *blogging* them on a *blog*
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KevinMarks Well you may want a permalink for the session - it's what the unit of context is
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@t healthy quinoa+salad = 2 lunches 1 @DanGillmor re: #indieweb http://tantek.com/2013/231/b1/questions-twitter-related-headlines-feature 2 catch up w @christine & @mathias (ttk.me t4Su5) (twitter.com/_/status/397853564561027073)
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tantek KevinMarks - so both are useful
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tantek having the "live blog" of the entire day as one big post
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tantek that people can stay on and reload/follow
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tantek and as each session is finished, archiving that session as its own blog post for permalinking
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tantek.com edited /webactions (+528) "/* Use Cases */ add intra article tweet this links with example" (view diff)
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tantek hey KevinMarks - I'm not seeing that livetweet URL update any more
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tantek and another one for site-deaths: https://twitter.com/everpix/status/397777870983921664
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@everpix It is with a heavy heart we announce that Everpix will be shutting down in the coming weeks… http://blog.everpix.com/post/66102960115/we-gave-it-our-all
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KevinMarks That's cos I have to update it manually at the moment, and my mac battery died
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tantek http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/5/5039216/everpix-life-and-death-inside-the-worlds-best-photo-startup
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KevinMarks I need an actual cost, not just deploring via git...
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KevinMarks Cms not cost
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tantek heh
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aaronpk new t-shirt idea: "git is my cms"
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aaronpk wow, exactly one result for that on google
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/lindseybieda/statuses/297108037787865088
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@lindseybieda @spufidoo Nah, ruby and sinatra (all the posts are markdown files) git is my cms :) https://github.com/LindseyB/blog
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ryana aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 278 karma
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ryana I'd wear that shirt
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tantek aaronpk - or anyone else - has anyone ever heard of everpix before today?
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aaronpk never heard of it
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tobiastom nope. never heard of it as well.
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hober tantek: nope
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tantek "why the world's best photo startup is going out of business" ?!?!?
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tantek (from http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/5/5039216/everpix-life-and-death-inside-the-worlds-best-photo-startup )
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+524) "/* Upcoming */ Everpix announced shut down, goes read-only, going offline 2013-12-15" (view diff)
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