#indiewebcamp 2013-11-19

2013-11-19 UTC
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snarfed class! wow, cool! now i'm curious. got a link with any more info?
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bret yeah me too!
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bret I wish I knew that webstuffs are fun to work oun when I was younger
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bret i had a such an apathetic attitude towards the web for such a long time
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@benwerd The Homebrew Website Club, based on a model set out 38 years ago: http://tantek.com/2013/322/b1/homebrew-computer-club-reunion-inspiration #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/402675234974613504)
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@ozten RT @benwerd: The Homebrew Website Club, based on a model set out 38 years ago: http://tantek.com/2013/322/b1/homebrew-computer-club-reunion-inspiration #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/402675609312063489)
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@jf RT @benwerd: The Homebrew Website Club, based on a model set out 38 years ago: http://tantek.com/2013/322/b1/homebrew-computer-club-reunion-inspiration #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/402679398429491200)
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@cesarsalazar RT @benwerd: The Homebrew Website Club, based on a model set out 38 years ago: http://tantek.com/2013/322/b1/homebrew-computer-club-reunion-inspiration #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/402693777220833280)
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@KinkInExile RT @benwerd: The Homebrew Website Club, based on a model set out 38 years ago: http://tantek.com/2013/322/b1/homebrew-computer-club-reunion-inspiration #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/402702706986319872)
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Jihaisse Hello
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+182) "/* Other */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+646) "/* Deleted Posts */" (view diff)
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@jihaisse Mes deux plugins #indieweb pour #Wordpress http://jihais.se/2013/11/19/mes-deux-plugins-indieweb-pour-wordpress/ (twitter.com/_/status/402780869380698112)
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Loqi [mention] http://jihais.se/2013/11/19/mes-deux-plugins-indieweb-pour-wordpress/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://jihais.se/2013/11/19/mes-deux-plugins-indieweb-pour-wordpress/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://jihais.se/2013/11/19/mes-deux-plugins-indieweb-pour-wordpress/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitation (pingback)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: the other nice thing about storing mentions separate from content is that it no longer matters what format the content is in
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barnabywalters it could be JSON, markdown, YAML, HTML, etc
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cweiske sql
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aaronpk barnabywalters: yeah true! it also means I can store mentions for any URL on my sute regardless of whether it's a post
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I’m currently joining the db-less flat file index hipster crowd
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aaronpk hahaha
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk i'm about to go back to a DB for indexing/querying
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barnabywalters with no loss of functionality, and (if initial experiments prove correct), noticeable speed gains
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barnabywalters I’m just indexing stuff in a CSV file, then making a sliding window over that for listing/pagination
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aaronpk how are you going to handle deleted posts? a deleted column in the CSV?
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barnabywalters yep
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barnabywalters same for access control
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barnabywalters and tagged
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barnabywalters tagged filtering + deleted filtering is working now, not built access control yet
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aaronpk how are you going to represent a list of things in the CSV?
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barnabywalters space separation, then strpos() to see if a tag is in the list :)
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aaronpk i mean at that point you might as well use YAML or JSON for the index, since they have real ways to represent lists and things
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barnabywalters I did a little benchmark, it’s amazingly fast
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barnabywalters nah, with YAML and JSON I need to load the whole thing into memory
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aaronpk ah, you're trying to avoid reading in the whole file?
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aaronpk http://meme.loqi.me/4T8H4vGC.jpg
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Loqi woot!
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barnabywalters PHP has fgetcsv, so I can just read until I’ve got what I need, then stop
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barnabywalters I’ll probably have to switch over to at least an sqlite db eventually, but going with this for the moment :)
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barnabywalters lol
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aaronpk yeah I've had enough of dealing with using flat files as indexes manually, I want a DB to do that for me
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@_dAttA_ RT @jihaisse: Mes deux plugins #indieweb pour #Wordpress http://jihais.se/2013/11/19/mes-deux-plugins-indieweb-pour-wordpress/ (twitter.com/_/status/402801472150470656)
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barnabywalters interesting, we’re both going in different directions
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Loqi gives aaronpk a DB to do that for me
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barnabywalters you started from flat files and are moving towards DBs, I started storing everything in the DB and am getting progressively more and more sick of them
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aaronpk I'm still keeping the original data in flat files, probably won't even include that in the DB at all
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Jihaisse woot ! a RT
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk I just don't like all the hopps I have to go through to maintain my indexes as I add/remove tags, change visibility, delete, etc
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aaronpk Jihaisse: nice twitter card
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Jihaisse thanks aaronpk
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cweiske my blog software has articles in plain html files, but for generating the stuff around it (index page, feeds, tag pages), I import them into a in-memory sqlite db
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cweiske because querying is so much easier with sql
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Jihaisse I don't get why you don't want to use a DB ?
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aaronpk yeah it is
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Jihaisse I mean. Before DB, there where flat files
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Jihaisse then, comes DB
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aaronpk Jihaisse: have you seen http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern
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Jihaisse and now, you want to return to flat files systems
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barnabywalters cweiske: I thought I would want to do tonnes of querying over my notes. turns out I actually want to do three, maybe four things: before/after datetime pagination, tagged filtering, deleted post filtering. maybe access control
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barnabywalters in fact, deleted could just be a tag
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aaronpk Jihaisse: note that I'm going to switch to flat file for the canonical data, and use a DB to indexing/querying
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cweiske barnabywalters, and those four things are simple with sql
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aaronpk Jihaisse: the point is that if the DB gets blown up, I can always re-create it from the raw data that's in files
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barnabywalters Jihaisse: yep, that’s the distinction — DBs good for indexing/caching, bad for long term storage of content
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barnabywalters cweiske: getting the pagination right (matching the API I want) was surprisingly awkward with SQL, though that might be due to my lack of knowledge
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barnabywalters and all of the above are easy (and, so far, fast) with the csv-based system I put together in an afternoon
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aaronpk barnabywalters: have you documented that? "matching the API I want"
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barnabywalters aaronpk: the API, or the difficulty I had making it with SQL?
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cweiske the api
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aaronpk the api
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aaronpk cweiske++
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Loqi cweiske has 2 karma
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barnabywalters not explicitly, no
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aaronpk i'd be curious to see what you are designing for
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barnabywalters it’s just ?before=YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS and ?after=…
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barnabywalters in order to get ?after working I had to order the notes backwards, then manually reverse the order
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aaronpk i think you can do that with two ORDER statements
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barnabywalters exactly what’s happening on http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes pagination back/forwards
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I tried a bunch of different things, including horrible nested queries, but couldn’t get it to work
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aaronpk select * from (select * from notes order by date asc limit 10 offset 100) order by date desc
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aaronpk something like that
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barnabywalters I can’t remember the details, but I certainly tried that and couldn’t get it to work
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aaronpk actually wait... why do you need after at all? I thought I did, and ended up writing everything as "before" query strings
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barnabywalters aaronpk: so how do you generate Next button links?
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aaronpk it's the "?before" of the last post on the next page
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aaronpk it also means that as you go backward and forward by pages the URLs stay the same
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barnabywalters so you have to load notes from two pages to show notes for one page
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barnabywalters yeah, that’s a nice plus side
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aaronpk yes. that's still O(n) so it's not a big deal
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aaronpk I'm not loading the post content from all the notes, just loading the index record for each on the 2 pages so it's even less than O(n*2)
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aaronpk http://rob-bell.net/2009/06/a-beginners-guide-to-big-o-notation/
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barnabywalters thanks, that looks like a useful guide
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aaronpk oh man I really need to update oauth.net... it has a ton of old info on oauth1 and I think people are getting confused
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barnabywalters cweiske: what version of sqlite do you use? http://php.net/manual/en/book.sqlite3.php?
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cweiske yes, via pdo
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aaronpk pdo++
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Loqi pdo has 1 karma
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barnabywalters ah, so you can swap in another backend if you wanted
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cweiske yep
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aaronpk in theory :)
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aaronpk in practice, not so much
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cweiske PDO is not for abstraction
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cweiske if you want that, use Doctrine's DBAL (not ORM)
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cweiske or MDB2, but that's very old now
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aaronpk yeah, PDO is just a nicer interface to DBs in general
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barnabywalters yeah… for my previous (current live) storage thingy I use Doctrine DBAL, which seems to handle interop a little better
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aaronpk I like idiorm for a real abstraction http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/03/16/1/a-reasonable-php-development-stack#idiorm-http-idiorm-rtfd-org
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cweiske that's my layer: http://p.cweiske.de/71
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barnabywalters cweiske: so how does the memory sqlite backend work? does it persist across requests?
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cweiske no
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cweiske I don't need it to
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cweiske because I generate static html files in a git receive hook
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barnabywalters ah, so HTTP requests never trigger that code
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barnabywalters makes sense
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tantek Good morning indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good evening!
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tantek reads logs
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barnabywalters morning tantek
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tantek Good morning barnabywalters
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barnabywalters tantek: loving the sound of Homebrew Website Club!
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tantek Thanks barnabywalters ! Now I just need to implement an event post type and how to store/display rsvps ;)
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tantek aaronpk what's the use case you're solving for (with considering a db) ?
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aaronpk tantek: right now the main one is: http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Deleted_Posts
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aaronpk i'll try to document the others when I think of them again, Iusually open up my code and try to do something, then get frustrated at how long it will take with querying flat files and move on to something easier
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tantek reads.
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tantek aaronpk: The reasons you give re deleted posts is one of the reasons I chose one bim per file rather than one post per file. I can almost always get everything I need with one file system access to read one file.
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aaronpk yes, that makes sense. part of the problem i'm having is due to one-post-per-file
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tantek You're using a hybrid of the *file system* (ie directory listing for the list of posts) and flat files themselves.
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aaronpk yes
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tantek The exact problem you point out is one of the reasons I sharded my storage by bim.
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tantek I don't do any file system / directory access. I compute the path of the file based on the permalink/date.
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aaronpk however having one post per file means I don't have to worry about concurrency, I let the filesystem handle that
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tantek What's the specific concurrency case you're worried about?
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tantek (I believe in optimizing for reads)
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aaronpk I have a lot of things that can create posts for me. my posting interface, import scripts from jawbone, etc, and I only plan to increasse the number of these things
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aaronpk concurrency of writes
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tantek My home page requires only two file accesses (most recent bim and index.html home page template), nearly all post permalinks require only one.
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aaronpk I don't want to deal with having two things trying to add a post to the same file at a time
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tantek Is that possible or even probable in the indie web case?
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aaronpk in my case quite probable, imagine scrobbling songs to my server while uploading step counts live from devices on my wrist while writing a blog post
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tantek Ah, that's solvable with an internal API/service on your own site to handle adding posts.
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aaronpk but I'd still have to deal with concurrency at that internal API level
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tantek Which itself can queue them and them and have an asynchronous process add them.
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tantek The queue you could make one file per post.
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tantek Done. Concurrency of adds still handled by the file system. :)
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aaronpk but if i make writes completly async, then I can't know the post URL in the response to the thing that made the request
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aaronpk I would have to switch to a URL scheme that is guaranteed to never generate colliding URLs (probably using microsecond-precision of the timestamp would be good enough)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: is the URL not based on the publishing date? which would be the time of the request
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tantek Hence why I chose different short codes for post types. Since they come from the same source, each can predict their permalink.
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aaronpk the URL is roughly based on date. articles/notes are day-level precision with an index, auto-generated posts are second-level precision
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tantek The post add API/service on your website would return you the computed permalink since it knows the current state of the queue.
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2013/11/19/080036/ vs http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/11/17/1/
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aaronpk omg you're right, but ugh that sounds complicated
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tantek Bottlenecking writes/adds with a service/abstraction helps simplify architecture a lot and make it both more predictable and easier to debug.
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barnabywalters aaronpk: probably a stupid question, but surely writes are quick enough that you could lock the resource, making concurrent writes block until the previous one finished?
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tantek It's only a problem if you have to scale up to tons of concurrent writes, which thankfully is not a problem for the indieweb use case.
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tantek It's an advantage of building an indie website over a silo.
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aaronpk barnabywalters: sorta-ish... some of my writes grab data from elsewhere, like looking up my location to add geo context to posts, and those may be HTTP or at least redis calls
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tantek barnabywalters: That too would like "just work" :)
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tantek *likely (no extra valley-speak needed)
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aaronpk also if I have to make a locking mechanism I would be super annoyed. if the filesystem blocked on the fopen for the write for me it would be better
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barnabywalters flock()?
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barnabywalters http://us3.php.net/flock
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aaronpk tantek: yes that's another thing. did you see my notes on that? http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Separate_storage_of_mentions_from_the_actual_posts
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tantek In same file as posts or in a separate meta file (thus doubling the number of reads per post from 1 to 2)
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tantek Oh! Will look now.
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barnabywalters tantek: currently Taproot stores them in post YAML files, but I’m moving to a separate archive inspired by aaronpk’s one, but which stores multiple copies of resources over time
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tantek Aaronpk yes that's exactly my worry and I think I'm convinced.
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aaronpk yeah, I definitely do not recommend storing in the same file as the posts
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tantek barnabywalters: I think for now I will only store the latest version of a comment etc. from webmentions.
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barnabywalters tantek: that works. it leaves you open to people remotely deleting the content, which may or may not be a good thing
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tantek I'm going to go with being ok with that for now.
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tantek Eg if you or aaronpk deleted a comment, I figure you have a good reason for doing so and am ok with dropping it.
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tantek hmm Loqi disappeared in the netsplit
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tantek folks here might have some interest in this: http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-ig-charter.html
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tantek I think you can send feedback in response to this email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-socbizcg/2013Nov/0000.html (can anyone not load that URL?)
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tantek welcome back Loqi
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Loqi dude
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cweiske can I put my xfn list on a separate page? how?
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barnabywalters tantek: I get a password dialog
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tantek cweiske - you can put it anywhere you like. what do you want to do with it?
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tantek barnabywalters - drat
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tantek are you able to at least view the charter?
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barnabywalters yep
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tantek ok feel free to write-up feedback here or on the wiki and I'll email it
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Jihaisse is foaf still used ?
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cweiske tantek, I want to find out if people sending webmentions are related to me somehow
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tantek sure - so that's up to you cweiske
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cweiske so I need to look up the hcard of the author
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cweiske and follow the url if it has one
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tantek there's no rules about where you store your friends list
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cweiske and parse the friend list from that url
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tantek oh you want others to publish their friends list
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cweiske the question is: is it possible that they put their xfn list on a different page?
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cweiske how would they link that, machine readable?
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tantek possible and often likely
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aaronpk I'm not going to publish a friends list until I can ensure it stays up to date by itself
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tantek I think rel="friends" or rel="contacts" or rel="blogroll" has been discussed in the past
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tantek but yeah I agree with aaronpk
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tantek I'm not sure publishing static friends lists is the answer any more
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aaronpk I'm sure
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barnabywalters aaronpk: tantek: use note feed mentions as friend lists?
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tantek it used to be common behavior (blogrolls) but has disappeared mostly
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aaronpk barnabywalters: something like that, yeah, still haven't thought it through all the way
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tantek barnabywalters - yeah, home page mentions of h-cards with URLs could be a soft dynamic white list
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barnabywalters you can actually do that with http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes
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aaronpk althought not everyone I actually mention I want to put on my friends list
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cweiske i'd like to auto-approve webmentions that are within 2 levels of friends to me
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tantek cweiske - cool
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tantek aaronpk - we could have public dynamically generated mentions pages
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barnabywalters I’ve prototyped “feed of activity from people I’ve replied to recently” using it
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tantek which would just be dynamic lists of people mentioned in our posts
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tantek say, in the past 3 months or something
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tantek so it wouldn't take any updating on your part
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aaronpk that covers most of it, but I don't actually want everyone I mentioned to be published as a firend
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tantek and all you would be saying is "I mentioned this person [optionally: in this/these post(s)]
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tantek hence rel="contact" as a default
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aaronpk that would be ok
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tantek the beauty of this is that you no longer have to do explicit unfriending
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tantek if you just happen to stop mentioning someone, for any reason, it's ok
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tantek aaronpk, Loqi missed logs from 7:42 to 8:11 PST (-0800)
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tantek just FYI
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barnabywalters so here’s an example of a primitive version of a feed reader based around that idea: http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/pipes-people-recently-contacted.png
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barnabywalters (nasty screenshot only as I’ve not got public pipe saving working yet)
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tantek aside: speaking of tag aggregations (I think aaronpk mentioned it as a use-case), my goodness FB's /hashtag/ pages suck. I get empty results nearly all the time.
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tantek (usually FB doesn't launch or let something live that sucky)
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barnabywalters diaspora still has the only good implementation of hashtags IMO
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barnabywalters although tagboard is a nice aggregator
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+11) "/* See Also */ tags" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+478) "update with explicit indieweb examples, note unknown start dates, prioritize indieweb examples over silos" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters - perhaps add screenshots of what made diaspora hashtags pages good to http://indiewebcamp.com/hashtags ?
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tantek also, aaronpk, barnabywalters - do you know/remember when you started linking hashtags on your posts/notes to tag aggregation pages on your own site?
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tantek (per YYYY-MM-DD(?) inline in http://indiewebcamp.com/hashtags#IndieWeb_examples)
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barnabywalters tantek: shouldn’t be too tricky to find… looks like it was http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/285/
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+33) "/* Barnaby Walters */ since" (view diff)
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barnabywalters thanks tantek — was just logging in
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tantek on another topic...
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tantek now that we have a bunch of us POSSEing with permashortlinks or permashortcitations of the form (ccTLD postID) or (ccTLD/postID), what if we formalize that as community-driven Twitter Annotations reborn?
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tantek that is, we formalize the format of (ccTLD postID) or (ccTLD/postID) at the end of tweets
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tantek and then we formalize how to get "more info" (i.e. annotations) about the tweet from that URL in the parens.
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tantek boom - did we just replace the defunct Twitter Annotations?
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tantek e.g. what if we got Twitter clients etc. to start to "read" our "annotations" and do things with them, e.g. display full content (ala Weave, but in every Twitter client).
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barnabywalters that would be cool
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tantek we could be bold and just call them "Twitter Annotations 2.0"
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tantek in which case, should we *always* use the (ccTLD/postID) format (since that seems to be "winning" among IndieWeb POSSE implementations)
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tantek ?
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tantek how hard would it be to convince 3rd party Twitter clients (e.g. Hootsuite) to adopt it?
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tantek and if enough clients (and users) adopted it, perhaps Twitter would too? (as they did @-replies and #-hashtags)
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tantek is considering switching from (ccTLD postID) or (ccTLD/postID) to see if he still gets complaints from folks about the link being clickable in tweets even when there's no more content.
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tantek s/or/to
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Loqi tantek meant to say: is considering switching from (ccTLD postID) to (ccTLD/postID) to see if he still gets complaints from folks about the link being clickable in tweets even when there's no mtoe content.
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tantek s/mtoe/more
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tantek ah well, only get one correction ;)
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tantek what if we explicitly include the protocol in permashortlinks when there's more content? e.g. (http(s)://ccTLD/postID) - but still keep the whole thing in parens? That would cause it to auto-link in more POSSE destinations (e.g. FB).
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tantek !tell benwerd since you most recently implemented and iterated on permashortlinks/permashortcitations, interested in your thoughts on moving them forward in a more unified fashion in this way: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-11-19#t1384879473
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronparecki.com edited /hashtags (-3) "/* Aaron Parecki */ added tag pages on 2013-03-08" (view diff)
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tantek I think I just booked the 7th floor common area @MozSF for the Homebrew Website Club tomorrow night! (2013-11-20 18:30-19:30)
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tantek is still figuring out how to book space @MozSF
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tantek will confirm with someone office-aware when he gets to work in a bit.
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bret Calling it twitter annotations might be a great way to get a lot of attention/a dmca takedown notice
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bret I love it
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@sandeepshetty F*ck Google Plus https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/402882190582628352)
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tommorris +1 sandeep.
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tommorris oh, wait, perhaps not the best way to affirm my support for not liking G+
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mathpunk Step 0: Join the #indiewebcamp irc channel. [x]
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barnabywalters greetings mathpunk!
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mathpunk hi!
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barnabywalters what brings you to our pleasant IRC channel?
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mathpunk I want to take the plunge into indie-ness. I told @aaronpk I'd put some work into my web presence this week while I'm away from my real work.
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barnabywalters oh cool! what’s your personal site?
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barnabywalters (if you have one already)
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mathpunk Step 1: Get your own personal domain name. [x] mathpunk.net
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mathpunk which is actually a wordpress site a friend set up for me years ago
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barnabywalters oh cool
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mathpunk but I want to have it point at my vps and... do... stuff.
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mathpunk I'm sort of learning everything at once.
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barnabywalters so if you want to continue using wordpress, there are a bunch of indieweb tech enabling plugins on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress#Essential_IndieWeb_plugins
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barnabywalters there’s also a little work-in-progress toolkit at http://indiewebify.me/ which suggests things to add
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mathpunk I want to roll everything myself as much as possible-- I'm interested in learning js/clojurescript, html, the whole shebang.
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barnabywalters mathpunk: nice! so HTML is an excellent place to start
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mathpunk I hid from the internet for a few years when it was really starting to get interesting and now I want to return to alternate 2003 and build from there :D
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mathpunk checking out indiewebify... spiff
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mathpunk Step Now: Staring blankly at emails re: my domain name transfer from godaddy to hover and not at all sure what they're asking me to do... hm. [ ]
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snarfed welcome mathpunk!
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snarfed i'll second barnabywalters' recos
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snarfed i use wordpress and pfefferle's plugins, i can vouch for them and answer q's
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snarfed esp if you're interested in frontend stuff like JS, i'd definitely suggest trying out SemPress and the wordpress-webmention plugin to get microformats2 and webmentions out of the box
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snarfed and then you can replace some/all yourself as you go
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snarfed also, minor point, if you add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People , your username will be auto-linked in the logs, e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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snarfed tantek: fwiw, +1 on (ccTLD/postID), no space
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tantek snarfed good to know - are you doing that?
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snarfed you were right about the twitter etiquette of link meaning additional content, but it looked like only a small fraction of people ever actually felt strongly about it
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snarfed eh personally i just put the full URL in. my twitter followers aren't hardcore enough about twitter or social media in general to care
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snarfed but i'm following closely because i'm implementing the original-post-discovery alg
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snarfed re twitter annotations 2.0, the auto-expanding sounds similar to twitter cards, right?
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snarfed which are twitter-proprietary, granted, but orthogonal to permashortcitation, and have corollaries in other silos (e.g. FB's OpenGraph tags)
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mathpunk snarfed: I have not administered my own WP site... I just flapped my hands at a friend. Sooo... I guess I need to figure out how to point my domain at my vps, somehow without breaking its Google Apps connection.
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mathpunk Not that I'm keeping Google Apps, because INDIE, but step-by-step...
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mathpunk Step Now: Figure out wth DNS and Nameservers are and how to edit them on my Hover.com account. [ ]
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snarfed agreed! there are lots of tutorials and docs for that kind of stuff, e.g. pointing the main web site for a domain under google apps
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mathpunk wait,not DNS... forwarding
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snarfed and you don't necessarily have to give up google apps. private applications you use, like gmail, google calendar, etc, don't exclude owning your own public-facing identity on mathpunk.net
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aaronpk uses google apps for @parecki.com stuff still, the nice thing is nobody really knows or cares, and I can switch out at any time
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snarfed right
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snarfed domain is the most important part. then comes putting the public (or semi-public) content you create and publish on it instead of (or in addition to) silos like FB and twitter
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mathpunk I'm curious about using https://github.com/al3x/sovereign but, again, seems like next-level shit
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aaronpk oh yeah al3x was telling me about that the other week!
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mathpunk snarfed: this look about right? https://support.google.com/sites/answer/99448?hl=en
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mathpunk I've broken my email before, I'd love to not do that again :D
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aaronpk mathpunk: where is your DNS managed?
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mathpunk is hover.com a possible answer to that question?
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aaronpk as long as you change your A record for mathpunk.net without changing the MX records, you won't break your email
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aaronpk yes hover.com sounds likely
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aaronpk actually I can answer that question, one sec
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aaronpk the answer is dreamhost
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snarfed mathpunk: yup, looks right. consider maybe doing it with your friend, either virtually in person, since it sounds like they helped set it all up at the beginning
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mathpunk I moved my registrar from godaddy to hover, and I am currently staring at the "edit stuff" page, afeared
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snarfed and one step at a time is always a good idea
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mathpunk oh, this ns1.dreamhost.com thing that's ON the hover.com site
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snarfed ugh yeah, moving domains around btw registrars is always painful
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aaronpk that means dreamhost is managing your DNS, so you can go there to change stuff
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mathpunk hurm. but I've never made a dreamhost account. soooo, this must mean that Eric (friend in question) set up hosting there back when I was all, "ugh i don't wanna know just make it do the thing"
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aaronpk heh
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mathpunk ok. I guess I'm stuck until he gets back to me about this then. soon enough I'll have everything I need in order to bork everything ;D
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aaronpk i wish someone made this a lot easier to deal with and understand
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aaronpk it's not hard once you get your head around it, it's just that there are a whole bunch of pieces to learn in the first place and no good way to make sense of it quickly
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mathpunk I'm viewing the Internet as several decades of accretion of nerds arguing, and thus I have attained a certain inner peace
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aaronpk mathpunk++
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Loqi mathpunk has 1 karma
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aaronpk pretty much sums it up
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mathpunk harrr
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mathpunk Loqi: Thanks, even though I gather karma is apportioned by the cosmos
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Loqi who, me?
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mathpunk Loqi: Yes, you.
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mathpunk I think this is less worse than when I first decided I wanted to get into this webdev thing, and there were all these frameworks to make things "easier"
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mathpunk but of course, they were making things "easier" for people who already knew what the problems being solved were
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mathpunk I'm going to get my site pointed correctly
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mathpunk I'm going to learn enough d3.js to do viz under an informal apprenticeship with a data scientist
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mathpunk I'm going to build a webapp on riotJS with a dev friend
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mathpunk followed by, galactic empire
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tantek SF bay area indieweb folks - I've managed to book the 7th floor common area @MozSF for tomorrow night
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CheckDavid hi
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CheckDavid It's a bit hard to understand what this is about
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CheckDavid by reading the front page
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tantek CheckDavid - could you rephrase that as a question?
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tantek or here's a question for you - what's your personal site?
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snarfed tantek: awesome! i'm at least 50/50, hope to make it
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snarfed tantek: btw, submit your homebrew web site post to indienews when you get a chance!
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tantek snarfed - cool.
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snarfed i thought for min about how to subvert it and submit without needing the rel=syndication link on your post, but didn't come up with anything
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snarfed no one would ever mistake me for a secops :P
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tantek I haven't figured a good way to present the rel=syndication link to indienews on my post
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tantek hey benwerd - noticed that photo posts don't/didn't provide a permashortlink/permashortcitation - was that by design or accident? https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/399304939257618432
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@benwerd We don't leave tickly throats to chance. https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/399304939257618432/photo/1
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tantek !tell benwerd hey benwerd - noticed that photo posts don't/didn't provide a permashortlink/permashortcitation - was that by design or accident? https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/399304939257618432
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed yeah. i have to admit, i'm not totally on board with the no display: none thing
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snarfed it seems pretty reasonable for occasional things like e.g. indienews syndication links
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tantek.com edited /permashortcitation (+626) "add notes about benwerd's switching between permashortcitations and permashortlinks and then dropping them about a week later." (view diff)
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tantek snarfed - yeah display:none-ing them seems wrong
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snarfed why?
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tantek invisible metadata etc.
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tantek snarfed re: (cctld/postid) - do you have examples of when you started doing that? could you add an entry for yourself to: http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitation#IndieWeb_implementations
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snarfed yeah, i guess i fall on the other side of the invisible metadata debate
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snarfed or at least, i'm ok with it occasionally, as opposed to drawing a pretty hard line
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snarfed re permashortlinks, sure, i'll add myself to that page. again though, i don't do (ccTLD/postID), i just do the full URL
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snarfed …so actually, i don't seem appropriate for that page
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bret Hey CheckDavid welcome :)
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bret The best way to get an idea about the indieweb is to look at live examples
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bret indiewebcamp is a conference where people get to gether to talk and build tools that enable the indieweb
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bret brb for now but I can chat about it later if you are interested