#indiewebcamp 2013-11-20

2013-11-20 UTC
bnvk and KevinMarks3 joined the channel
#
KevinMarks3
Got a Web app? Tizen has a contest for you https://developer.tizen.org/contests/tizen-app-challenge
#
tantek
KevinMarks3 have you been cloning yourself? ;)
#
KevinMarks3
Signing in on more than one android + the chromebook
#
KevinMarks3
I dead to do so on the macbook in case it adds even more clutter to notification centre
#
KevinMarks3
*dread
thatryana joined the channel
#
CheckDavid
Hello bret
#
CheckDavid
tantek, I do actually have a personal website
#
CheckDavid
checkdavid.com
#
CheckDavid
But that's not the reason why I came here
#
CheckDavid
I was talkign with some guy about the possibility of an open source website
#
CheckDavid
maybe using wordpress and he linked me to your website
#
tantek
CheckDavid - very good. having a person website is a good reason to be in #indiewebcamp
#
CheckDavid
I see
#
CheckDavid
tell me other reasons tantek
mathpunk, pfenwick and ozten joined the channel
#
CheckDavid
tantek, is this basically a way to help people host themselves
#
CheckDavid
?
#
CheckDavid
A philosophy around that at least.
#
tantek
CheckDavid and a bunch of shared resources and a whole supportive community to help you do so and help inspire each other do so.
#
CheckDavid
oh nice
#
tantek
where you say "host themselves" we say, own your online identity and data
#
CheckDavid
I see.
#
CheckDavid
I actually wanted to know how to build a website for a possible upcoming event, in a way that it could be open source
#
CheckDavid
Not sure if this makes sense
#
CheckDavid
And not sure if this is the best place to discuss it
#
tantek
well we do work on figuring out how to post events on your own site
#
tantek
coincidentally I'm working on that myself...
#
@t
And now to see about implementing #indieweb event posts in @Falcon. (ttk.me t4T83)
(twtr.io/ez8zFcguzC)
#
CheckDavid
tantek, fun coincidence =)
#
CheckDavid
Ohhh
#
CheckDavid
What I want to do is actually very related then
#
@kevinmarks
"@mathewi:The rise of Brown Moses: How an unemployed British man became a poster boy for citizen journalism http://gigaom.com/2013/11/19/the-rise-of-brown-moses-how-an-unemployed-british-man-became-a-poster-boy-for-citizen-journalism/ #indieweb
(twtr.io/ez96tejbyf)
#
tantek.com
edited /event (-3) "beyond experiments, we're now using this for real"
(view diff)
#
CheckDavid
Because most people today are publishing their events on facebook etc
#
tantek
hmm - aaronpk - when was your first event post? add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/event#IndieWeb_Examples
#
tantek
CheckDavid - that's right. FB is typical for events these days. A few on G+. And years ago a lot of us used to use Upcoming.org (sadface)
#
CheckDavid
Well, what me and a partner wanted to do is a bitcoin event, of course we are not going the low tech route
#
CheckDavid
like... just social media event posts
scor joined the channel
#
CheckDavid
Well, nice place I found then.
paulcp, tantek, pfenwick, b0bg0d, tilgovi, smus, scor, snarfed, shaners, tpinto, bnvk, josephboyle, smus_ and pfenwick1 joined the channel
#
tantek
is working on event posts support. But first documenting existing support.
#
tantek.com
edited /event (+559) "Aaron Parecki also posts indieweb events, note date of first event post from each"
(view diff)
obensource_, smus, tpinto, catsup, bnvk, josephboyle, KevinMarks, pfenwick and abrereton joined the channel
#
tantek
good morning aaronpk ;)
#
tantek
so do we really only have two people/sites/implementations of indieweb events?
#
tantek
you and benwerd?
#
aaronpk
posting events?
#
tantek
many more of us have RSVPs working
#
aaronpk
what counts as implementing indeiweb events? h-event markup + handing rsvp replies?
#
tantek
that seems like a good start
#
tantek
yeah - h-event at a permalink
#
tantek
ideally that receives webmentions and displays RSVPs & comments
#
tantek
ideally (semi-)automatically
#
tantek
but I'm thinking of deploying even with manual webmention handling
#
tantek
e.g. checking my webmention.io queue manually and copying RSVPs in
#
aaronpk
ah funny, that works I suppose!
#
aaronpk
bye for now!
#
tantek
aaronpk was July your first event posted?
#
bret
tantek: I have events on mine but no rsvp handling... just webmention
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+534) "Working On: event posts"
(view diff)
#
tantek
bret when did you post your first event post?
#
tantek
could you add yourself and relevant details here? http://indiewebcamp.com/event#IndieWeb_Examples
#
bret
sure
#
bret
:[ yeah I know
#
bret
i resued a note and just put an event inside
#
bret
wasn't thinking at the time
bnvk joined the channel
#
bret.io
edited /event (+200) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Added description of events on my site"
(view diff)
#
tantek
a quick hack. well done ;)
#
bret.io
edited /event (+4) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Woops forgot to close title"
(view diff)
#
tantek
I OTOH am trying to build a proper event post type
#
tantek
since I kinda hacked my RSVPs
#
tantek
(which are basically just replies that happen to start with "going to "
#
bret
The event data is stored in the YAML which is nice, and I have a posting interface which aids in creation of the post via prose
#
bret.io
edited /event (+164) "/* Bret Comnes */ Added that last bit from irc"
(view diff)
#
bret
ill still plan on updating the wiki with more unhosted info from the weekend. I have been super busy early this week
#
bret
night
#
tantek
bret - very cool
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /event (+112) "/* Bret Comnes */ since and example"
(view diff)
tpinto and b0bg0d1 joined the channel
#
aaronpk
tantek: yeah pretty sure that was the first
#
tantek
aaronpk cool
#
tantek
drat I couldn't get event posting finished tonight
#
tantek
or rather, too tired to do so
#
tantek
so I'm resorting to posting an event
#
tantek
an event note
#
tantek
which I'll updated RSVPs for manually
#
@t
Event note: * Homebrew Website Club * 2013-11-20 18:30-19:30 * @MozSF 7th fl RSVP: @-reply or webmention more: http://tantek.com/2013/323/t5/event-note-homebrew-website-club
(twtr.io/ezjZNVBZgL)
#
tantek
huh - so why did that show up
#
aaronpk
"webmention"
Jihaisse joined the channel
#
tantek
aaronpk heh
#
aaronpk
this is why I barely ever go to twitter.com
#
aaronpk
I have tons of search terms piping to various IRC channels
#
@kevinmarks
RT @t: Event note: * Homebrew Website Club * 2013-11-20 18:30-19:30 * @MozSF 7th fl RSVP: @-reply or webmention more: http://tantek.com/2013/323/t5/event-note-homebrew-website-club
(twtr.io/ezk5RCFnC0)
bnvk and netweb joined the channel
#
tantek
aaronpk I rarely go to Twitter either except to check @-replies on my tweets
#
tantek
which I suppose eventually I'll just use snarfed's code to auto-retrieve.
#
@bear
RT @t: Event note: * Homebrew Website Club * 2013-11-20 18:30-19:30 * @MozSF 7th fl RSVP: @-reply or webmention more: http://tantek.com/2013/323/t5/event-note-homebrew-website-club
(twtr.io/ezknBAyM54)
bear joined the channel
#
tantek
welcome bear!
#
bear
hello sir
#
tantek
I'm off to sleep for now but good to see you here
#
bear
i've been away for too long
#
bear
ienjoy your sleep
LauraJ and smus joined the channel
andreypopp, bnvk, LauraJ, friedcell, smus, tpinto and melvster joined the channel
barnabywalters joined the channel
#
aaronpk
also realized that I need to basically move all my "presentation" posts to "events" since they are more like events
KevinMarks2, smus, bnvk, tpinto, barnabywalters and melvster joined the channel
bret, squeakytoy, andreypopp, bnvk, scor, brianloveswords, CheckDavid and josephboyle joined the channel
#
@jjmajava
No More Sharecropping! Own your data. Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. https://medium.com/indieweb-thoughts/9d0e36524dbf
(twtr.io/f0Km2t9qiC)
obensource_, LauraJ, snarfed, bnvk, bnvk_, smus, _6a68, jonnybarnes and mathpunk joined the channel
#
bnvk
aaronpk: you der?
#
aaronpk
bnvk: yo
#
bnvk
are you still UAE?
#
bnvk
looks like it, from your travel page :)
#
bnvk
I'm going to make my own travel page right now- as I've got bit of movements happening this month
srushe joined the channel
#
bnvk
aaronpk: did you just do that all my hand or did you make a lil module?
LauraJ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
it's a new post type
ozten joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: how are you planning on marking up your travel data?
#
barnabywalters
I see a p-name, but no mf2 root classname yet
#
aaronpk
not sure yet. I tried a couple things, asked tantek a couple questions, and ultimately gave up in favor of just getting the html published
#
aaronpk
they're not quite h-entry posts, and I can't remember exactly but there was some weirdness if they were straight up h-entrys
#
aaronpk
s/h-entry /h-event /
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: they're not quite h-event posts, and I can't remember exactly but there was some weirdness if they were straight up h-entrys
#
bnvk
yah, the /travel page
#
barnabywalters
how would you expect a client to display the page?
#
bnvk
are you just adding blobs of HTML manually at present?
#
barnabywalters
i.e. in a calendar view, on a timeline, on a map, or a regular h-feed type view?
#
aaronpk
bnvk: no, p3k is aware that they are flights
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: I want them to show up well in a calendar, which means all dates need to be marked up as start/end times
#
bnvk
ah, so you're publishing them out of p3K as normal notes or posts or whatevers- ok!
#
aaronpk
they are special posts
#
bnvk
is there a special form for the flight data that I could reuse the HTML from?
#
bnvk
as the time fields / airports are pretty specific data
#
barnabywalters
was thinking it might be interesting to make our “new post” UIs public (but obviously prevent random people from making new posts)
#
aaronpk
bnvk: here's the source for that post: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/7566680
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: hah neat idea
#
barnabywalters
I had a public version of my old autocomplete running at one point for people to play with, but it’s broken now
npdoty and andreypopp joined the channel
#
bnvk
aaronpk: neato- will hack with :)
#
bnvk
are you still going to Hawaii btw?
benprew joined the channel
#
aaronpk
oh yeah I should add that... I don't actually know my flight yet tho
tilgovi and ryana joined the channel
#
bnvk
aaronpk: cool, i'll be heading to Hawaii at some point- might have to stop through :)
#
aaronpk
please do! would be great to see you there
#
bnvk
likewise :)
LauraJ, smus, BjornW, tantek, paulcp, mathpunk and icco joined the channel
#
tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
aaronpk
good morning! lol timezones are weird
#
tantek
indeed
#
tantek
working on figuring out event URL structures
#
tantek
design etc.
#
tantek
probably going to go with /YYYY/DDD/eN/optional-slug where YYYY/DDD is from the dt-start of the event
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk
interesting!
#
mathpunk
I have changed a bunch of nameservers! I wonder what that means! wheeeeee
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: you broke everything
#
tantek
it is probable
#
aaronpk
oh you mean you literally *just* changed them
#
aaronpk
i'm getting different results every time I query
snarfed joined the channel
#
mathpunk
sweet, deterministic functions are for loserz
#
aaronpk
wat. no seriously what did you do, this is really weird
#
mathpunk
haha
#
Loqi
hehe
#
mathpunk
Okay, I'm going to explain exactly how little I know now.
#
aaronpk
"mathpunk.net has address 1.0.0.1"
#
aaronpk
UNLIKELY
#
mathpunk
omg i have the best internet
#
mathpunk
WE'RE NUMBER 1.0.0.1!!
ryana joined the channel
#
aaronpk
i don't even...
#
mathpunk
previously, on mathpunk.net...
#
aaronpk
maybe these arabian DNS servers are screwing with me
#
mathpunk
My page was a wordpress that a friend set up for me, so I could try and become "An A-list blogger jerkoff" in 2007
#
mathpunk
The site was hosted on my friend's crusty old server, and had a domain registered through godaddy
#
mathpunk
@kronda and @li3n3 helped me get the domain hosted on hover instead
#
mathpunk
which listed as its nameservers, nsN.dreamhost.com
#
mathpunk
for N = 1, 2, 3
#
tantek
aaronpk - how did you decide on your event URLs?
#
mathpunk
moments ago, I changed those nameservers to nsN.hostvirtual.com, which bothers me a little bit because hostvirtual's site is vr.org
#
mathpunk
but it's what friend-with-crusty-server suggested
#
mathpunk
and, as I may have mentioned, I have no idea what I'm doing
#
aaronpk
tantek: they are based on the day of the event, with the index like my articles and notes
#
mathpunk
what I have not done, I realize, is used my vps's IP address on any of these pages (hover/hostvirtual)
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: ok so far so good... but how does hostvirtual play into this? are they hosting your site/
#
mathpunk
yes! hostvirtual is where I have my vps
#
mathpunk
and I have not told hover about that ip address
#
aaronpk
WTF ok seriously... something between me and the real internet is changing the DNS reply to return 1.0.0.1
icco joined the channel
#
tantek
aaronpk - did you do anything special about ordering? since events are often in the future?
#
aaronpk
even when I do `dig a mathpunk.net @8.8.8.8` I get 1.0.0.1
#
mathpunk
so maybe i should do that-- not, mind, that I have a server running... on my server... or have an index.html on it...
#
mathpunk
uhoh ((starts getting confused))
#
aaronpk
tantek: no, the order of the indexes is post order, not sure i'm happy with that but so far I haven't posted more than one event on a day so it hasn't mattered
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: TIL DNS servers in Dubai return whatever the hell they want and should not be trusted
#
tantek
I figure there's well established conventions for event listings
#
aaronpk
let me continue debugging this from my home internet
#
mathpunk
haha
#
tantek
people expect to see a list of what's next in time order
#
tantek
not reverse chronological order
#
tantek
so that's why I ask
#
snarfed
morning all
#
snarfed
tantek: let me know if i can help with anything tonight
#
snarfed
happy to bring drinks and snacks, or whatever
#
tantek
snarfed - you coming?
#
aaronpk
tantek: yes, that's why I said i'm not totally happy with it. I switched to second-precision URLs for my "metrics" posts which makes them always in chronological order
#
tantek
snarfed - bring a friend or two who have expressed in interest in working on their own website - any level ok
#
snarfed
agreed. i'm 0 for 3 so far :( but i'll keep trying
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: ok so I'm not getting any answer for where your site is
melvster and HereticLocke joined the channel
#
mathpunk
aaronpk: I'm trying to stop myself from monkeying with everything simultaneously. components include: I have a vps that I know how to ssh into so, obvsly I'm pretty l33t. I have mail.mathpunk.net which is identical to what I get when I go to mail.google.com.
#
aaronpk
you changed your nameservers to hostvirtual, did you do anything in hostvirtual to set DNS records?
#
mathpunk
aaronpk: No, I was just looking at the DNS tab and realizing I dunno what DNS is
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: your email is about to stop working
#
mathpunk
aaronpk: yaaaay
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: do you know the IP address of your VPS?
#
mathpunk
aaronpk: Yes! 192.73.240.105 but all it has is a patiently running mongo instance
#
aaronpk
oh, where's your site then?
#
aaronpk
dreamhost says 66.33.209.151
#
mathpunk
....Seattle?
#
mathpunk
ah see that's the thing I haven't changed--
#
aaronpk
yes yes your site is on dreamhost
#
aaronpk
ok you know how to log in to hostvirtual thing right?
#
mathpunk
ok. am I telling hover to "forward" to my IP or am I telling it that its "DNS" is that IP?
#
mathpunk
yep, I'm looking at the console now
#
aaronpk
ok. forget hover. you already told hover that the nameservers are hostvirtual
#
mathpunk
huh, ok
#
aaronpk
now hostvirtual is serving all your DNS records. so when anybody says "where the hell do I find the server for mathpunk.net?" hover says "go ask hostvirtual you dork"
#
mathpunk
haha
#
aaronpk
but right now hostvirtual has no clue because you haven't told it anything
#
mathpunk
oh, oops... I was NOT looking at the hostvirtual console, I was looking at the hover console. forgetting hover--
#
aaronpk
so in hostvirtual, figure out how to add a DNS entry
#
aaronpk
you need to add: 1) an A record for mathpunk.net to 66.33.209.151 and an A record for www.mathpunk.net to 66.33.209.151
#
mathpunk
is, "add your zone" a likely thing?
#
mathpunk
I'm g uessing yes, b/c it wanted a domain and ip
#
aaronpk
and 2) an mx record for mathpunk.net to aspmx.l.google.com
#
mathpunk
fields for mx are Name, Points to, Priority
#
aaronpk
name: mathpunk.net points to aspmx.l.google.com priority 0
#
mathpunk
pow
barnabywalters joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+107) "/* POSSE Details */ clarify what types POSSEd, how replies are POSSEd"
(view diff)
#
mathpunk
status: mathpunk.net goes kerplooey (unsurprising, it has nothign running but the mongo), mail.mathpunk.net goes kerplooey, mail.google.com works as usual
#
mathpunk
oops, I missed the A records...
icco joined the channel
#
mathpunk
aaronpk: Ok! Now everything is successfully broken. "Break down to build up"
#
tantek
aaronpk - adding a new post type to Falcon is sufficiently difficult that this time I'm working through all the details/difficulties and documenting them in an Implementation Design section the wiki while adding "event" post type support.
#
tantek
in the hopes that doing so will help reveal where it can be simplified
#
tantek
and maybe provide a model for others to improve upon
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: keep in mind that every change you make takes a while to propagate
#
aaronpk
but yes I am not seeing anything updated
#
aaronpk
can you send me a screenshot of your DNS console?
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Taproot (+599) "/* Structure */ documented frustration with framework-encumbered nonsense code, rewrite for flatness and sanity"
(view diff)
#
mathpunk
yyyyyes... where do cool kids upload their screenshots to?
#
aaronpk
whatever is easist?
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Taproot (-77) "/* Roadmap */ working on: rewrite"
(view diff)
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Taproot (+64) "/* Structure */ symptoms: no longer fun"
(view diff)
obensource_ joined the channel
#
mathpunk
and
#
aaronpk
I use old-skitch which uploads to flickr automatically. but there are like a zillion apps that do the same. dropbox, cloudapp, etc etc etc
#
aaronpk
oh yes this is not good... not good at all
#
mathpunk
duh, why didn't i use dropbox-- ohwell, DEAR FRIENDS LOOK AT MY DNS
#
mathpunk
hahaha
#
mathpunk
"The problem with learning computing alone," said a friend, "is you end up with the equivalent of outsider art."
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: ok you can ignore all the DNS stuff on hover, since you already told hover to point to hostvirtual to answer DNS quesries
#
aaronpk
so in hostvirtual, everything si wrong
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Taproot (+331) "/* Roadmap */ documented rewrite, homepage redesign"
(view diff)
#
mathpunk
alrighty
#
aaronpk
one sec
#
tantek
aaronpk,mathpunk - do we need a DNS FAQ? sounds like a lot of things to be confused about.
#
aaronpk
there are SO MANY THINGS
#
mathpunk
tantek: Yesplz. Is DNS one of the burrito layers?
smus joined the channel
#
aaronpk
oh I see what hapepend
#
mathpunk
tantek: In fact, I had this idea where I wanted to do a webcast with someone who knows stuff, but who has time for that. I mean, I do, but--
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: I will do that with you
#
aaronpk
I want to edit more video anyway
#
aaronpk
you can provide the humor, I can provide the facts
obensource_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
because I am not funny by default
#
mathpunk
cool. we should enumerate a list of steps from stage zero.
#
tantek.com
created /dns (+335) "stub"
(view diff)
#
mathpunk
that would be great-- we could use the Colbert Principle. In the green room he tells his guests, "You just be yourself, and remember that I'm an idiot."
#
aaronpk
i'm back friday morning
#
tantek.com
created /DNS (+17) "r"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
and I don't believe in jetlag, so whenever works
#
mathpunk
ha! I'll be back in town approximately 12/1
#
mathpunk
you are magic-- fix0ring
#
tantek
mathpunk - would be great if you could summarize the problems you're running into and link to the respective screenshots here: http://indiewebcamp.com/DNS#FAQ
#
tantek
hopefully will help others in the community that may encounter similar problems
#
tantek
and the knowledge isn't then lost in IRC archives
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: ok any time after 12/4 I am free. planning to take some full days off work too since I've been putting in so many overtime
#
tantek
mathpunk - even if you just start by copy/pasting what you wrote in IRC about the problems you're having, that would be a good start.
#
bnvk
aaronpk: but your funny setting default can be changed- I've seen it happen
#
aaronpk
not default. needs to be provoked.
#
mathpunk
gah, the console keeps doubling the name and I have to edit after the fact.
#
aaronpk
try adding a . at the end
#
aaronpk
and don't ask because DNS
#
tantek
mathpunk, arronpk are these domain registrar or webhost specific problems?
#
tantek
something about this sounds far too complicated
#
aaronpk
a combination
ryana joined the channel
#
tantek
can we capture this information then particular to the domain registrary and/or webhost?
#
aaronpk
the problem is each registrar and host treats dns slightly differently in tersm of what they name their labels and how they treat input
#
tantek
almost as a warning of dealing with those specific service providers?
#
aaronpk
also each tries to abstract out a slightly different aspect of it with things like "DNS cloaking" and BS
#
tantek
right - so let's start collecting how they treat dns slightly differently
#
aaronpk
maybe this is a thing I could actually make. a registrar and DNS host that doesn't try to screw you over.
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: that would be very cool. it would be great to run something like that as a charity
#
tantek
from this conversation, I wouldn't want to direct anyone to these specific registrar and webhost
#
tantek
so who are they?
#
aaronpk
I wouldn't place the blame on hostvirtual so fast, I haven't really seen anybody do it any better
ryana joined the channel
#
mathpunk
tantek: V. important to note that my problems come from taking ZERO responsibility and asking friends to "plz just make it go"
#
tantek
mathpunk - yes - and that's what *A LOT* of beginners on the indieweb are likely to do
#
mathpunk
Fair point
#
tantek
which is specifically why I'm asking *you* to help document this
#
tantek
because your perspective here is *super valuable*
#
mathpunk
roger
#
tantek
thanks much!
#
mathpunk
um, I don't actually know how to save this log, btw
#
tantek
aaronpk - we should document the existing state
#
barnabywalters
tantek: I think mathpunk can’t login to the wiki yet
#
tantek
mathpunk - you don't need to save the log - see /topic
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: I'm thinking maybe low markup on domain registration as a way to cover costs
#
barnabywalters
I’ll add a link to the start of this conversation to the dns page
#
tantek
aaronpk - sounds like something worthy of adding to /business-models ;)
#
tantek
thanks barnabywalters - that's a start at least
#
aaronpk
tantek: hah yeah, domain registration isn't even on there yet
#
mathpunk
Right, I can't login to the wiki because I have no rel=me on my site (and no site)
#
mathpunk
tantek: What's /topic?
#
tantek
mathpunk, details ;)
#
aaronpk
GAH I can't trust the stupid hotel DNS server. not sure if I should blame the hotel or the UAE
#
aaronpk
I don't like having a different view of the internet from here
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /dns (+95) "/* FAQ */ linked to chat logs about DNS problems"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: that looks better
#
tantek
aaropnk - time to use Tor?
#
aaronpk
a VPN to my home would work fine too
#
aaronpk
right now i'm just running DNS queries from my SSH connection to my home server
#
tantek
successfully updates his .htaccess without breaking his permalinks or archive pages
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: I think everything is working now!
#
tantek
realizes he's implemented more archive pages than he thought he had.
#
tantek
(even though they're not linked to from anywhere)
#
mathpunk
I don't understand why "www.mathpunk.net" is still showing the wp site, though... I thought that'd be broken by now
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: at least as soon as your DNS cache clears
#
aaronpk
there are a lot of places DNS can be cached
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: oh wait you mean you have a new site that is not the wordpress site?
#
mathpunk
well, no-- I want one, made of bespoke organic HTML that I can learn to JS up.
#
aaronpk
you mentioned a VPS on the hostvirtual thing
#
aaronpk
is that the place you want your new site to live?
#
aaronpk
you also said mongo, i'm pretty sure I heard mongo at some point
#
mathpunk
Yes. The VPS is running a mongo db until we replace it with something that's not mongo db. I want to run the site on my VPS. I can ssh into it and put files on it and stuff. And I have a tunnel set up on a vpn, though I can't really recall what that means.
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: oh, RE wanting to have a vpn to your home — have you come across sshuttle?
#
barnabywalters
it tunnels all your local traffic over a ssh connection
#
barnabywalters
super useful
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: I just do that manually in OSX
#
aaronpk
socks proxy
#
barnabywalters
ooh you do it the fancy way
#
barnabywalters
I just alias woosecureinternet to sshuttle -r bwserve 0/0 ;)
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: ok so... right now your mathpunk.net domain is pointing at the dreamhost server still, which is cool, cause it means you still have a site
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+1622) "separate implementation design, add Routing section for how URLs get routed to what implementation files"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
created /newcal (+32) "stub"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
if you want to work on a new version of your site on your VPS, you should do something like make an A record for new.mathpunk.net to the IP address of your VPS
#
aaronpk
then you can work on that in parallel and not break your site
#
tantek.com
edited /bim (+11) "newcal"
(view diff)
#
tantek
aaronpk - sounds like a good transition approach worth documenting
#
tantek
since many folks start with one approach and switch to another
#
mathpunk
aaronpk: I'm making a very weird face and having acronym fatigue-- back in like 10 to let my meatcache clear
#
aaronpk
oh my but I need to get to bed
#
tantek
e.g. start with blog.example.com routing to Tumblr, and then want to setup/work on a new self-hosted blog without breaking their Tumblr in the mean time
#
aaronpk
stupid 12-hour time difference
#
aaronpk
9 hours to europe is much saner
#
tantek
aaronpk, so your advice about "if you want to work on a new version of your site on your VPS" should be captured somewhere
#
tantek
not sure where
#
tantek
but that kind of stuff is important and hard
#
aaronpk
yeah, DNS is still in a pretty dismal state
#
barnabywalters
might getting started be a good place to put it?
#
barnabywalters
that page is a bit neglected…
#
mathpunk
I almost want my site NOT to be up because it is naive and, ugh... I'm not proud of my non-twitter presence
#
mathpunk
all my pages are neglected tbh
#
aaronpk
it's also the kind of thing that you do once when you get your domain and never look at again because once it's running it just works
#
barnabywalters
mathpunk: I was referring to the wiki page :)
#
mathpunk
barnabywalters: I STAND BY MY SELF-DEPRECATION
#
mathpunk
;)
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: if you want to re-break your site, change the A record from 66.*** to 192.73.240.105 which I think is the address of your VPS
#
tantek
aaronpk - until you decide to switch web hosts
#
tantek
which is like switching phone companies
#
tantek
lowering that switching cost (cognitively even) is important
#
mathpunk
btw guys, (a) thank you SO freaking much, and (b) I am very inspired by the POSSE principle... cause there's lots of places that seem like fun channels, but not at the expense of them being yr studio, to extend the TV metaphor, dig?
#
aaronpk
tantek: right, it's something you do so infrequently that there is no incentive to learn it
#
tantek
right, no incentive to learn it = there should be an easy step-by-step instruction document for how to do it
#
tantek
which any of us would reference when we need to do it
#
tantek
rather than learning it
#
mathpunk
re no incentive... something like an ansible playbook? I can't wait to know enough to try al3x's sovereign
#
aaronpk
the problem is there are relatively few conventions across providers
#
tantek
aaronpk - so we start with a few at a time
#
tantek
and as you said, it's clearly an opportunity for a business-model
#
tantek
to improve upon the current state of things
#
mathpunk
tantek: I agree on saving what we've written today but, again, I dunno how to modify the wiki to save my chat logs. this is the most irc I've done in 10 years btw
#
aaronpk
I *have* been looking for something indieweb-related to do as a business... this feels like something worth tackling at the moment
#
tantek
mathpunk - we have to get you setup with a simple static home page with h-card + rel-me first
#
tantek
then you can start editing the wiki :)
#
tantek
mathpunk - the chat logs are already saved - hence the /topic (see the "topic" in whatever IRC client you're using)
#
barnabywalters
mathpunk: there‘s a link to this conversation in /dns ready waiting for when you can log in
#
mathpunk
"/topic" did a thing
#
mathpunk
"/dns" did not do a thing. What context is /dns in?
#
mathpunk
roger
#
barnabywalters
my bad for mixing IRC commands with domain-relative URLs :)
#
mathpunk
Can I set up a static site from what I've got now? if I make that site-breaking change referenced above?
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: it depends on what's running on your VPS
#
aaronpk
assuming the IP address is 192.73.240.105, I don't see any web server running there yet
#
mathpunk
hrm, of course I dunno how to scroll back to what that was....
#
barnabywalters
on which note — I figured out the solution to the indiearchive browsability vs accuracy problem! just inject a <base> element into the document with the archive base. that way you can leave all the links untouched, but they still go to archived things
#
mathpunk
ah. sooo, I need to start a server daemon of some kind. and it will have... a... port.
#
barnabywalters
and you can always redirect from non-archived URLs to the real thing, so non-archived things don’t break
#
aaronpk
yes, preferably a port of type 80
#
mathpunk
there is a server listening on one port to run my index card server that @etymancer set up
#
mathpunk
but I can't recall what that port is
#
aaronpk
wow you've dove in deep
#
mathpunk
*shrug* I have l33t friends
#
mathpunk
ok, afk for real-- I'm internet-dizzy
#
mathpunk
thanks again!
#
aaronpk
ok bye! i'm serious about getting together in portland tho!
#
aaronpk
maybe the new crazy TLDs will bring an end to the current DNS model too
#
barnabywalters
oh good grief
#
aaronpk
yes I am very glad we can now have domains like http://cat.photography
#
barnabywalters
do we have to type them in capitals too?
#
barnabywalters
cat.PHOTOGRAPHY or nothing
LauraJ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
good night!
#
Loqi
see you in the morning!
#
@gojomo
RT @t: Event note: * Homebrew Website Club * 2013-11-20 18:30-19:30 * @MozSF 7th fl RSVP: @-reply or webmention more: http://tantek.com/2013/323/t5/event-note-homebrew-website-club
(twtr.io/f0peBb1eZM)
b0bg0d and squeakytoy joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /p3k (+479) "collections"
(view diff)
#
bnvk
aaronpk: what are you using the "timezone" value to represent
#
bnvk
is it to represent the timezone you are in when you start your travel?
#
aaronpk
bnvk: it's the timezone that displays on the item in the list view (carry-over from notes/articles/etc, redundant in the travel post because the timezone is in the start date too)
tantek joined the channel
#
bnvk
ah gotcha
mathpunk joined the channel
#
tantek
is rewriting some Whistle code to be more post type generic.
#
@kevinmarks
“…technology feels like something that happens to you instead of something you use. We need to…stop that.” http://frankchimero.com/what-screens-want/ #indieweb
(twtr.io/f0snx0XYQZ)
LauraJ, tpinto, tantek, b0bg0d and caseorganic joined the channel
#
bnvk
aaronpk: are you polling some other data source with the int airport codes?
#
bnvk
for the "Amsterdam, Netherlands" type data?
jp, tilgovi, paulcp, abrereton, tpinto, b0bg0d, friedcell, smus, obensource_, andreypopp, tantek, _6a68, mathpunk, caseorganic, caseorga_ and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
bnvk
aaronpk: this data is fun to play with- Google has super easy flight lookup query now
#
bnvk
here's where I got http://bnvk.me/t
smus and andreypopp joined the channel
#
snarfed
hey bnvk…unrelated, but the links in the ideas section of your web page both seem to redirect to /
#
snarfed
maybe i'm doing something wrong...?
#
bnvk
snarfed: ahh, yah, that's a bug I need to fix
#
bnvk
ever since I added "private" ideas it's done that... thanks ;)
#
@t
design Qs when coding a new #indieweb post type: * how should it look as a page? * a feed entry? * in a list of posts? (ttk.me t4T91)
(twtr.io/f1CHNvAB3V)
#
tantek
bnvk - heh - I just use indiewebcamp.com to capture my ideas like that
#
tantek
or sometimes when they're constrained I'll write a short note - like ^^^
#
bnvk
not all my ideas are "indie web ideas"
#
tantek
what?!?
#
bnvk
hehe
#
bnvk
I'm having a lot of fun with this travel data
#
tantek
bnvk - do you have permalinks for each flight?
#
bnvk
no, I should, but not at present
#
tantek
I want to get the point where I can easily post any random ideas (even undeveloped) to my own site
#
tantek
will probably happen as a side effect of implementing wiki pages
#
bnvk
Yah- that's also some of my private ideas
#
bnvk
half baked notes
#
tantek
my thoughts on how indieweb wiki pages could/should work: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki-page
#
bnvk
yah, my ideas are basically pages with some other categorical data tags
#
tantek
if I get wiki pages working, and then private / shared wiki pages (maybe ACL per page) then I think I'll be able to start keeping my notes on my own site
#
bnvk
nice
#
tantek
and with offline support, I could do so when disconnected too
#
tantek
well I don't have event posts working yet, but I have simplified adding new post types to a small set of visual/interaction design problems - which is a good place to focus the work.