#indiewebcamp 2013-11-22

2013-11-22 UTC
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KevinMarks this struck me earlier, tantek
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tantek KevinMarks, possibly.
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KevinMarks thinking about this further, I wondered if processing the HTML template leaves the template classes in
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tantek I'm still looking for specific use-cases for such things
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KevinMarks then realised that the mf2 syntax is rich enough to specify what to replace.
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jp having such a hard time sorting these DNS problems out
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jp www as a CNAME to @ is correct - right?
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tantek KevinMarks, I agree about whole element replacement use cases (and uf2 having enough to do so)
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tantek What I'm unsure about are:
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tantek 1) attribute replacement/creation
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tantek 2) partial element replacement
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tantek Though for 2) we could just say use a <span> in the template to delineate the part of the element that should be replaced
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tantek I'm also thinking that aside from repeats/loops, that as a result of HTML template processing, there shouldn't be any new structural elements introduced into the content
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tantek i.e. introducing new elements/markup that's just part of *content* is fine (e.g. e-content from a blog post / article), but no new furniture
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KevinMarks well, for the set of attributes microformats use u- and dt- work
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tantek ok, so u-* imply use the URL-like attribute of the element
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KevinMarks so we only allow html injection for e- ?
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tantek right
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tantek as a way of making HTML injection more predictable, i.e. for styling purposes
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tantek for dt-* I suppose we can use the datetime attr if it's on a <time> element
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KevinMarks rel's would be hard, but they already are problematic in parsing
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KevinMarks would you replace content of dt- with a localised string?
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tantek or we include all the rels, and have the template engine delete the ones that don't apply
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tantek as described in the camendesign DOM template intro
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KevinMarks does p-author imply rel="author", for example?
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tantek for the dt-* human visible content I figure there's enough datetime formatting conventions that we can reuse those
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tantek e.g. YYYY YY MM M DDD DD D and maybe MNAME MNM DNAME DNM (needs research) - are all those obvious as to what they do?
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tantek re: replace content of dt- with a localised string
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KevinMarks ah, right, rather than guess which human convention is being used form the example int he template
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tantek for the latter set this is better: MONTH MNTH DAY DY
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tantek for e.g. November Nov Thursday Thu
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tantek and let's see for time
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tantek 24HH 24H HH H MM SS AM PM
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KevinMarks you could use explicit exemplars - pick a date and use it as what you put in the template
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tantek maybe. that seems more error prone
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tantek and things like YYYY-MM-DD are already more obvious to folks
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tantek as communicating "fill in those with real values"
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KevinMarks I suppose so
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KevinMarks I was goign with your WYSYIWIG template principle
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tantek lazy US dates: M/D/YY
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tantek it's WYSIWYG enough
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tantek lazy UK dates D-M-YY
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KevinMarks choose programmers day as the exemplar date, then enumerate known formats
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KevinMarks see how google docs does it (copying excel) https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7cAS_dEul22N3dIVVVMeTJzLUE/edit
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tantek Apple has something similar in their UI
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tantek in Preferences
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tantek OSX
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tantek however, the template problem is different
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tantek because you have to remember *what to write out*
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tantek rather than *pick from a set of choices presented to you*
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tantek very different UI authoring problem
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KevinMarks true
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tantek also such exemplar techniques fail to communicate details like do you want leading zero on months, days, hours or not?
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tantek whereas with what I proposed, it's the difference between MM M, DD D, HH H
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tantek oh and how could I forget - TH as a suffix to any numerical expansions to replace with the respective ordinal suffix
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tantek e.g. MONTH DTH, YYYY
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tantek KevinMarks - am I missing anything? I've got at least all the Google Docs cases covered as well as what I've seen on people's indieweb sites.
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tantek I suppose timezones
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KevinMarks seems comprehensive
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tantek looks at http://php.net/manual/en/class.datetime.php
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KevinMarks DDD is your day of year thing presumably
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tantek well technically it's ISO-8601 day of year :)
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tantek zero padded of course
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KevinMarks ISO-8601 has a lot of variants
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tantek sure - I was just making clear I didn't make it up
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tantek citations and all that
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tantek so for timezone… who publishes timezones?
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tantek aaronpk maybe? barnabywalters?
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tantek aaronpk does, like CET or PDT
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tantek then there's +01:00 vs. -0700
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tantek so let's see, TZ for the TLA style, and TZH and TZO for the other two (hours and offset)
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KevinMarks doe anyone use week number and day of week number?
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tantek never seen either in practice
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tantek DAY and DY are for day of the week, e.g. Thursday vs Thu
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tantek who else publishes timezone info on their posts besides aaronpk?
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KevinMarks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_week_date
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KevinMarks yuk
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KevinMarks YAGNI on that
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tantek LOL yes
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tantek I think week of the year had some industrial uses
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tantek we'll let the enterprise folks figure that out
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KevinMarks "week 01 is the week with the year's first Thursday in it"
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tantek KevinMarks - stop before you hurt yourself further.
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tantek hmm even adactio doesn't publish timezone - I'm a bit surprised at that - as he does travel quite a bit, and is a fan of things time / time-travel related
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KevinMarks roman year? MMXIII?
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KevinMarks :D
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tantek KevinMarks - find any real world examples of indieweb publishers doing so? Great, they can write their own template code ;)
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KevinMarks heh
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jp what's everyones preferred choices for free DNS hosting?
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jp cloudns seems to be down
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tantek your domain registrar? or maybe I'm misunderstanding the question.
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jp gandi only offers it when you point to them - and ive been having so much trouble getting it to work with them and theyve put their favicon on my site since i pointed to them
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tantek hmm - there is no hour that can be used to demonstrate both 12 hour and 24 hour formats with and without explicit leading 0
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jp use 'am' and 'pm' after?
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tantek jp, re-read exactly what I wrote.
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tantek I'm trying to pick an hour of the day to illustrate *four* variants and that's apparently not possible. At most 3 at a time are possible.
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tantek so I'm sacrificing 24H (24 hour "hours" without leading 0)
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KevinMarks http://pythonhosted.org/feedparser/date-parsing.html fro more examples
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jp oh my bad
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jp managed to get my MX DNS working now finally...
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jp something seriously wrong with gandi's
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jp is http://www.julian.so working for you?
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jp *with www.
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KevinMarks yes
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jp oh must be my cache then
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jp woohoo all good
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jp did what i've been trying to do for about 4 hours on gandi's DNS zones in about 15 mins on a free DNS host
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@t talking HTML templates in #indiewebcamp, @KevinMarks asked for datetime, so I made a formatting format (yo ... http://tantek.com/2013/325/t1/html-templates-indiewebcamp-feed-list (twitter.com/_/status/403703368730025985)
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tantek there you go KevinMarks
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tantek see what you made me do?
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tantek (I think that's been a longtime background itch for a while - annoyed with how arcane the C / PHP datetime formatting functions are etc.)
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tantek (hoping someone will point out how what I proposed has already been done, and even better)
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KevinMarks another oblig xkcd: http://xkcd.com/1179/
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tantek yessssss
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@domenicoperri RT @t: talking HTML templates in #indiewebcamp, @KevinMarks asked for datetime, so I made a formatting format (yo ... http://tantek.com/2013/325/t1/html-templates-indiewebcamp-feed-list (twitter.com/_/status/403704352931860482)
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tantek thanks KevinMarks - updated
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tantek ironically I already have posts that reference *both* of those XKCDs
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tantek perfect excuse for "Previously" links
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@GainTwiter2014 RT @t: talking HTML templates in #indiewebcamp, @KevinMarks asked for datetime, so I made a formatting format (yo ... http://tantek.com/2013/325/t1/html-templates-indiewebcamp-feed-list (twitter.com/_/status/403707676497960960)
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tantek GainTwiter2014? Now that couldn't possibly be a spam account to gain Twitter followers in 2014 could it? Nah...
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mathpunk Maybe you folks have an idea-- I'm completely dissatisfied by the state of annotation, and text remix. What we've got is great compared to paper but it's not atomic enough
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mathpunk I can't link to an arbitrary paragraph, f'rinstance.
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mathpunk The state of note-taking and glossing is unacceptable... So, am I building from scratch?
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KevinMarks blaine's poetica is interesting
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KevinMarks remembers about 5 internal google 20% projects that attempted this
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bret mathpunk: at IWC2013, there was some discussion of this. An obvious starting point was webmention and reply context
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mathpunk m'k
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bret basically, doing what pingback does, but do so in a way that makes the pingback interesting to a reader
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bret in terms of citing lines, which would be great, i have no idea\
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mathpunk currently I'm using personal brain, which is closed source, and evernote, which is closed source and fucked
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mathpunk like..... it's 2013, why do I browse for an index card filing cabinet, frown, then close the tab
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bret ikr?
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jp have you heard of summly?
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bret i have heard more about the guy who founded it
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mathpunk I accept that I am going to have to build what I want myself w/ etymancer
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mathpunk but i'm always collecting case studies
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mathpunk and maybe this microformat thing is something i should be thinking about as we develop
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bret jp: I thought they shut summly down?
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jp i have never used it, i heard it got acquired by yahoo
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jp i thought it was relevent to what you guys were talking about and also a cool idea
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bret its a neat idea, but you should read the background on the guy who founded it
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jp about him being young?
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bret hrmml this is all I can find at the moment: http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/03/26/summly/?cigx=d.kac,stid.34244,sid.298356,lid.6,mid.24929#comment-846407012
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@ThatAmyMac RT @t: talking HTML templates in #indiewebcamp, @KevinMarks asked for datetime, so I made a formatting format (yo ... http://tantek.com/2013/325/t1/html-templates-indiewebcamp-feed-list (twitter.com/_/status/403714804423983104)
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KevinMarks imo citing a bit of text on a page should use the text as the within-page link
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KevinMarks de facto thats how we do it anyway, we google a quotation'
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KevinMarks eg search for "the dangerous habit of believing what we read in the newspapers or saw on the TV"
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tantek Kevinmarks, I agree and that's one of the reasons h-cite has p-content
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/h-cite#Properties
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KevinMarks as written that implies its just for citing the whole of a short work, as opposed to a part of a longer one
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tantek Perhaps we need p-summary as well then
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tantek Yes. p-content is intended for citing/quoting whole tweets for example.
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mathpunk jp: The summly critique has directed me to two natural language researchers of interest-- oblique thanks :)
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tantek (Which citing conventions show as quoting the whole of the tweet text)
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mathpunk of course, then I save them in evernote... fml~
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snarfed jp: favicon may just be cached. browsers are particularly aggressive (and opaque) about caching those
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snarfed thought it may have gotten better more recently
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snarfed s/thought/though
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Loqi snarfed meant to say: though it may have gotten better more recently
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@IndieAssistant RT @AuthorAngelaS: â–‚ â–ƒ â–… â–† â–ˆ Vampire Next Door â–ˆ â–† â–… â–ƒ â–‚ for #Kindle â–º http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EV69622/ref=cm_sw_su_dp •*☆Only $2.99☆*•â™¥•#vampires #ebook #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/403736937598840832)
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KevinMarks are y'all seeing a favicon for www.kevinmarks.com now?
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abrereton yep
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KevinMarks OK, good. must be caching here
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KevinMarks hm. chrome not showing it. do I need to make some new style one too?
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KevinMarks this is a high dpi screen
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tantek KevinMarks - I'm not seeing the favicon in FF
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tantek on kevinmarks.com (also why does it redirect to www.kevinmarks.com ? )
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KevinMarks 'cos I have DNS wrangling issues wiht heroku
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KevinMarks hm, it's showing in chromenow
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tantek ah heroku
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tantek KevinMarks - looks like Amy is expecting us to code something: https://twitter.com/ThatAmyMac/status/403709214486302721
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@ThatAmyMac @t @kevinmarks thank you! The built in JavaScript date methods are a mess, as I was just discussing with @paulmison yesterday.
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tantek good evening benwerd and caseorganic
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tantek.com edited /template (+424) "general approach in improve use of templates in Falcon" (view diff)
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aaronpk escaped from Dubai!
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neuro` aaronpk: do you? I thought they kept people passport and make them work on their new gigantic stadium?
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aaronpk lol
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neuro` Have a safe trip back
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aaronpk thanks!
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aaronpk one flight left then I'm home *whew*
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neuro` Which company do you fly?
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aaronpk this flight is KLM/Delta
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aaronpk AMS->PDX is a great flight, 10 hours non-stop
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neuro` I had really awesome flights with KLM, that's a company I try to fly as much as possible (or Air France)
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aaronpk definitely, and Delta is good in the US too
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neuro` It can't be worth than AA
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neuro` worst
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aaronpk I don't think I've ever flown them
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neuro` I wish I hadn''t.
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KevinMarks if you can go AMS with KLM instead of Heathrow it's worth it
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Jihaisse Hello
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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cweiske i'm using webmentions now in phorkie to notify remote instances that one of their pastes has been forked
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cweiske working pretty well. also, debugging is easy because I can simply "curl -d"
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tantek very cool cweiske
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tantek there's definitely something to be said for enabling curl-based debugging
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cweiske I completely omit webmention link headers in HTML now and only rely on the http header
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cweiske (for output)
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cweiske (my client lib consumes html link headers, of course)
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@_jden wanted: suggestions for indieweb-compatible email. (twitter.com/_/status/403817620475895808)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /template (+947) "/* Brainstorming */ added issues section with header/footer/general markup reuse issue, potential solution" (view diff)
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barnabywalters tantek: ^^^ I’d be interested in your take on that issue
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@SwissHealthBank Don’t Let #EHR Vendors Own Your Data http://www.healthdatamanagement.com/news/dont-let-ehr-vendors-own-your-data-46921-1.html via @HDMmagazine #citizenrevolution #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/403832925562896384)
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@david_a_butler RT @SwissHealthBank: Don’t Let #EHR Vendors Own Your Data http://www.healthdatamanagement.com/news/dont-let-ehr-vendors-own-your-data-46921-1.html via @HDMmagazine #citizenrevolution #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/403840020962099201)
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@SwissGator Health Care Opens Up http://www.huffingtonpost.com/morgan-fletcher/health-care_b_4316800.html?utm_hp_ref=tw @HealthyLiving Open innovation good to find breakthrough solutions @SwissHealthBank #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/403848046402093056)
indiewebcamp-vis, caseorganic, wyomingplease, b0bg0d, andreypopp, bnvk, friedcell and scor joined the channel
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@domenicoperri What is IndieAuth? - Kippt https://kippt.com/domenicoperri/invispide/clips/18114279 #relmeauth #indieweb #S42AT #usermedia #invispide @INTERSCOOBS (twitter.com/_/status/403871840797736960)
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@INTERSCOOBS How to set up web sign-in on your own domain - IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain #relmeauth #indieweb #S42AT #usermedia #invispide (twitter.com/_/status/403874264480485376)
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@domenicoperri RT @INTERSCOOBS: How to set up web sign-in on your own domain - IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain #relmeauth #indieweb #S42AT #usermedia … (twitter.com/_/status/403874450703396865)
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tantek barnabywalters re: header/footer markup - I've found them to be deserving of different (even in small ways) on each different kind of template page.
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barnabywalters tantek: how many different template pages do you have?
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tantek fewer than you? http://indiewebcamp.com/template#Falcon
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barnabywalters yeah, I have quite a few
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tantek but yeah - site-wide header kind of things would be useful to figure out
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barnabywalters at the very least list, permalink and edit form for each post type
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tantek indeed
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barnabywalters so I’m going to go ahead and try implementing the solution I brainstormed and see how that works out
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tantek right now, duplicated header/footer information is not the top of my template pain list
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tantek so I'm ok with duplicating it
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tantek also in practice I've found that once I've duplicated it, most things don't change
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tantek e.g. all the stuff in the <head> is fairly static
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tantek only things that might change are stuff at the top of the <body>
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barnabywalters it doesn’t change often, but when it does it’s a pain if it’s in a bunch of different places
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tantek for that stuff, can you XHR it in in the template file? and then also have the template engine replace that XHR script with the real header on the server?
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barnabywalters that’s basically a more complete+complex version of what I brainstormed
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tantek that should work for the stuff just inside <body> at the top
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tantek for the stuff in <head> - it's better to design that such that it requires little if any change ever.
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tantek (minimal <head> markup)
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tantek using templates to make <head> more flexible is a design mistake IMO
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tantek ok I'll capture that brainstorm then
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tantek.com edited /template (+1215) "/* Issues */ proposed way of handling common header information in templates" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters ^^^ ok braindumped with some additional details off the top of my head.
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tantek I think the key bit is seeing if XHR on local files works
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barnabywalters mm, good point
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tantek if it does, then we're in good shape.
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tantek because it's trivial to put an id on that script and have the serverside template engine replace it with the actual markup
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barnabywalters indeed
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tantek or heck do it by src
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tantek don't need XHR for editing templates
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tantek.com edited /template (+319) "/* Issues */ script src is good enough, add possible naming convention include-*" (view diff)
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tantek I *know* that script src= works in local HTML files / directories
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tantek ok I think that's pretty straightforward for solving the reuse header/footer markup problem - what do you think barnabywalters - did I miss anything?
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barnabywalters include-*.js would still have to do XHR though right?
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tantek or just put all the content there, wrap it in a giant document.write, and then in your PHP when importing the .js, strip the document.write away.
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barnabywalters I could live with that
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tantek XHR could be cleaner if it works
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tantek would make it easier to edit the include files
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barnabywalters there are plenty of products which do HTML includes for static sites, maybe there are some conventions there we could build on
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tantek I'm not sure what convention is needed there (how many ways can you do a big document.write ?)
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tantek nor do I know of anyone trying local-file XHR to do this
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barnabywalters no, I mean for the includes themselves
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barnabywalters e.g. http://hammerformac.com/
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barnabywalters uses <!-- @include _header.html --> by the looks of it
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tantek ugh - comments?
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barnabywalters yeah, are they even searchable using DOM?
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tantek that's just a different syntax from {{ }} {% %}
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tantek and Hammer still has separate edit vs build files
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tantek so that's annoying
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tantek I still prefer <script src="include-site-header.js"></script> because it doesn't add any new magic
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tantek over <!-- @include site-header.html -->
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barnabywalters yeah, better to avoid overloading comments
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tantek which adds two bits of magic - 1) the use of comments for functionality (nearly always a bad idea), and 2) @include?!? new syntax
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tantek Hammer has the problem of if someone that doesn't know hammer (but thinks they know HTML so they understand the files) edits your files, they will likely break something
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tantek bad for collaboration
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tantek including past/future self
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barnabywalters and the requirement of buying that app
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tantek oh I just meant the syntax
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tantek yeah, the non-OSS problem is there too
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tantek barnabywalters - how would XHR work locally? there is no "H" for it to talk to.
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tantek so script src with template engine process of the .js file it is
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tantek.com edited /template (+210) "/* Issues */ specifics of include-***.js file format (giant document.write), and serverside processing (strip document.write, include it)" (view diff)
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@nkoolsnp5 indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/403947755082506241)
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XgF IMO if your page template is including your site template, its' backwards
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XgF (Or, well, if its' including individual fragments)
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@CraigSJ I like to think the rap internet is batshit, but Grimes can throw the whole indieweb into chaos just by eating Ben & Jerry's, so. (twitter.com/_/status/403960935296954368)
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tantek well alrighty then
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tantek XgF - could you rephrase that in terms of a positive (alternative) ?
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XgF tantek: IMO templates should be top down - i.e. the site template should define slots where content is inserted
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KevinMarks xhr on arbitrary webserver is JAH or AHAH or whatever we call it now, easy to do
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julian` https://vine.co/v/hpHtvlzzTzj
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Loqi [mention] http://samharrelson.com/2013/11/22/bringing-back-the-blogs/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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tantek_ XgF that sounds like what barnabywalters and I are talking about. site (home page) template defines slots where content is inserted. except that we've figured out a way to do it with pure HTML+JS so that you can preview templates without depending on backend processing.
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XgF How useful is that really? I mean, whenever I'm doing web development... I have the server running locally
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tantek XgF - it's quite useful and lowers the barrier to collaboration (zero server setup required)
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tantek KevinMarks - I don't think XHR works on local paths
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tantek benwerd_ - in thinking more about event post design - I think there's two key pieces that stand out for me (in using silo events)
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tantek 1. Header image. This seems to be a big component and visual/emotional draw. Header image representative of the event, with possibly the name of the event superimposed on top
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tantek 2. horizontal map slice. The location is shown *first* as a centered dot in a wide and short rectangle map that shows the local area, and then second underneath as text address.
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benwerd_ I think seeing who else you know that's going to the event is also a big deal, although obviously that requires a ton of work for us to be able to carry off - but it's one of the things I always look for
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tantek the 2nd in particular I've always found both visually striking and instantly providing a sense of "is this near me"
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benwerd_ Definitely agree with those two though
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benwerd_ Yes - you need to know if it's going to be a pain to get to
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tantek or "is this near somewhere I'd like to be or might be anyway"
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benwerd_ Right, it gives you context in a way that a purely textual address can't
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tantek yes - the "who else is going" or might go or is invited is a huge sense of context/comfort as well
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tantek especially with little face icons
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tantek so I think you've got that part mostly solved (who is going)
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tantek though you're displaying RSVPs like a comment thread, rather than grouping into lists of "Going" "Maybe" "Invited" as e.g. FB does
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benwerd_ indeed, I think I do have a bunch of design to work out
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tantek btw at the HWC you brought up the challenge of invitations, however I thought we'd figured that out (webmention to the person's home page)
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benwerd_ definitely
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benwerd_ we've figured it out
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benwerd_ but not implemented
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tantek oh ok
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tantek I thought you had implemented it too?
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benwerd_ I might be having a play with that a little later ;)
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benwerd_ no
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tantek I mean I saw the "invited" on one of your previous events
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benwerd_ ohoh
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tantek (though I don't think I got the webmention - maybe due to me using rel=webmention rather than the URL)
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benwerd_ I coded them in by hand in the event description, and then idno sent the webmantions
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tantek we totally talked about this before :)
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benwerd_ * webmentions
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benwerd_ I don't have an automatic interface for it (yet)
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tantek ohhh - coding by hand is totally fine - good way to test / prototype
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tantek right - an invitation UI
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tantek for the event author
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benwerd_ but I'm also not receiving them - if someone webmentions my profile I don't do anything with it
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benwerd_ again, yes
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benwerd_ * yet
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tantek you're not at least saving it in a queue?
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benwerd_ ok, if my standard of typing is anything to go by, I might not get many features built tonight after all
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tantek so for me, all my webmentions (that I receive) are going into a webmention.io queue
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benwerd_ I'm logging it, sure.
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tantek so I check that manually - since I don't have anything built to listen to it
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benwerd_ it's there in a list. but I don't have it displayed to me in a really useful way
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benwerd_ NB: your lack of webmention probably is because of rel=webmention. I'll make a note to check that out
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tantek cool
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tantek so yeah, I'm kinda obsessing on making my events look somewhat pretty before going live with them
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benwerd_ I really like both the idea of the image and the horizontal map
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tantek I know that goes against the incremental just get something up there methodology but it's like a feeling thing.
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benwerd_ It's motivational to have something looking nice, if nothing else
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benwerd_ I wonder about automatically pulling the image from the location somehow if you don't specify one
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benwerd_ like, an image of the venue
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benwerd_ not sure where you'd be able to pick that from though
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tantek AFAIK no other site does automatic event header image pulling - so I might punt on that
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benwerd_ :)
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tantek though if there was some way to search my Flickr/Instagram photos by venue...
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Jeena wordpress ships now with RSS as JSON http://ma.tt/feed/rssjs
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tantek still beating the dying RSS horse huh?
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benwerd_ do they provide anything at all that *reads* that JSON, I wonder?
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Jeena you can add ?callback=myfunc to get it wrapped in jsonp ;)
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tantek.com edited /event (+2795) "markup and rsvp subsections, move thoughts to a design brainstorming section" (view diff)
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pdurbin tantek: you like atom better?
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tantek pdurbin - I support atom on my site only to support legacy consumers
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tantek I think we're done with DRY violating sidefiles
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tantek as in, there's no longer any need for them
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tantek certainly not any new ones
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pdurbin tantek: what do you use instead of rss or atom?
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benwerd_ http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
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tantek pdurbin for what use case?
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tantek benwerd - I tried to organize some event design thoughts here - feedback/contributions encouraged! http://indiewebcamp.com/event#Design_Brainstorming
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Jeena is there a feedreader which can understand h-entry?
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pdurbin digs up http://indiewebcamp.com/RSS#Alternative
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tantek Jeena - standalone "feedreaders" have been declining / dying for quite some time.
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pdurbin I still use RSS to subscribe to podcasts. I'm not aware of an alternative
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tantek the whole ecosystem of separate "feeds" is collapsing - not sure how this is not obvious: http://indiewebcamp.com/feeds#Shutdowns
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tantek pdurbin - even iTunes has cutback on RSS podcast support
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Jeena My feedreader is right now featured in the Firefox Marketplace ;) https://marketplace.firefox.com/category/all/featured (FeedMonkey, not featured in some countries)
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tantek pdurbin: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5333380
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tantek jeena - congrats!
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Jeena yeah thanks :)
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pdurbin tantek: wow, 4 pages. I don't use iTunes but I'm pretty sure my podcatcher only works with RSS. Or maybe Atom. I'm not sure. You're saying iTunes uses something else these days?
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tantek no I'm saying iTunes' RSS podcast support is breaking bit by bit
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tantek it's part of the greater phenomenon of RSS support/ecosystem in general crumbling
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tantek it's not quite dead yet, but the trends are all there
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tantek e.g. Apple *dropped* RSS from Safari and Mail
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tantek.com edited /feed (+228) "/* Shutdowns */ note problems with iTunes 11.1 and RSS podcasts" (view diff)
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Jeena I always hated it there anyway
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pdurbin well, as long as podcasts still work I don't care how they get to me
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tantek pdurbin - we had a prototype hAtom+hAudio alternative to RSS podcasts a few years ago, but hAudio was unfortunately a very poorly developed microformat (longer story) and was insufficient to gain any traction as an alternative.
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tantek it's likely that someone will develop a replacement h-media format that will work will with h-entry
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tantek when the personal need arises
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Jeena I too think the format doesn't really matter as long as it is machine readable
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benwerd_ pdurbin - I care in so far as I want to be able to pick my podcast fetcher. I use one for Android that downloads new episodes automatically at night, which is wonderful. I don't want to be beholden to iTunes or any single provider.
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benwerd_ (I'm blissfully iTunes-free and intend to stay that way.)
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tantek benwerd - thoughts on even design captures? was that accurate? anything to add or is it time to commence hacking? ;)
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tantek s/even/event
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Loqi tantek meant to say: benwerd - thoughts on event design captures? was that accurate? anything to add or is it time to commence hacking? ;)
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Jeena https://gpodder.net/ has kind of a thing going but the apps which support it are all kind of shitty
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pdurbin benwerd_: oh, sure, it absolutely still needs to be a standard. I just don't care if no longer makes use of XML.
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werd.io edited /event (+72) "Emphasizing a common markup error with events" (view diff)
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benwerd_ pdurbin: yep, seconded
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benwerd_ tantek: reading it slowly, sorry
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Jeena because of lack of synchronization of listened podcasts and the listening posision I only listen to them on one devise but I hate it
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werd.io edited /event (+85) "/* Ben Werdmuller */" (view diff)
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Jeena I would rather have som synchronization going on where I could just stop the one I'm listening to on my desktop computer and just continue it on my phone
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tantek and sync that read/play state perhaps through your own personal website ;)
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Jeena but if I don't implement that myself, it will obviously never happen
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tantek yes. that ^^^
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Jeena exactly
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werd.io edited /event (+89) "/* Invitations */" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /event (-2) "/* Invitations */" (view diff)
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Jeena I'm so angry about all the feed readers that they never got together and just came up with _one_ sync API which everybody could implement and use
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Jeena after the google reader amageddon
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benwerd_ tantek - I've got nothing else to add. Just made tiny tweaks here and there for context.
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Jeena it was the perfect opportunity
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tantek except for lack of incentive :/
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tantek reads diffs
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tantek looks for indieweb messaging redlink
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tantek.com created /indieweb_messaging (+32) "r" (view diff)
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Jeena I've been blogging about it many months before google closed https://jeena.net/feed-metadata
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Jeena (and yeah I obviously wasn't the only one http://inessential.com/2010/02/08/idea_for_alternative_rss_syncing_system )
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tantek oh dear: "I don't know that but I suspect that Google will at some not that distant point in future start discontinuing Google Reader and the undocumented API. "
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tantek nicely predicted Jeena
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werd.io uploaded /File:event-attendees-facebook.png "Event attendees on Facebook"
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Jeena it was easy to predict, the API was undocumented for a reason
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werd.io edited /event (+69) "/* Attendees */" (view diff)
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werd.io uploaded /File:public-event-plancast.jpg "A public event, listed on Plancast."
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werd.io edited /event (+178) "/* Attendees */" (view diff)
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tantek Plancast is odd in that it shows invitees only to the planner
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werd.io uploaded /File:event-map-horizontal.jpg "A horizontal event map (banner map?) from a Facebook event."
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werd.io edited /event (+90) "/* Map image */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+467) "/* Attendees */ FB, Plancast details" (view diff)
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benwerd_ huh. I guess I've never invited anyone to an event on Plancast.