#indiewebcamp 2013-12-05
2013-12-05 UTC
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tantek.com edited /posts (+153) "/* Footer sections */ References (not sure how I forgot this earlier)" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: do you markup sections with references, notes about article with a footer tag or aside tag?
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aaronpk|m dietrich_: we have room for bikes upstairs.
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aaronpk|m Also will need to call if you get here after 6:30, but Bret offered to let people in before then
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:ios-comm-apps-screenshot.jpg]]""
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:ios-people-icons-screenshot.jpg]]""
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skinny tantek: was looking for more specific error messages will less us of pronouns. If i knew what the root problem was, I could write up the error text for each.
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skinny tantek: yes, was much improved
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skinny i was offering to write the error text for all the cases.
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tantek (npdoty blogged: http://tantek.com/2013/338/b1/people-focused-mobile-communication-experience )
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jernst Want to add to what I said that lack of suitable identity technologies holds back indie web. E.g. I have a gigantic single-sign-on problem in my house, just for myself. ssh accounts on so many devices, users on web apps etc.
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jernst Amber can you speak up a little
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jernst Close to microphone is great!
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skinny what's the audio stream?
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skinny aaronpk: crystal@17triggers.com
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tantek (FYI: http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html is gaining momentum)
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npdoty npdoty is http://npdoty.name
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skinny aaronpk: got an email saying I *was* in a hangout with you but there was no link to join.
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caseorganic Would be nice if we had a stable phone connection and then the video
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caseorganic need a bluetooth mike
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skinny can i join someone's group?
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skinny tantek: link pls?
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aaronpk skinny: this might work: https://plus.google.com/117847912875913905493/posts/AJ9A55Rh2Jt
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skinny tantek: i cloned a jekyll repo whose theme was pretty close.
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benwerd Note to self for later: lots of talk about public/private keys. I think there's value in having a token per relationship rather than a simple key release system, so that I know, eg, "tantek accessed this", and I can decide what he gets to see & change it later without worrying about revoking keys. i.e., a CMS problem.
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bret Here is a good tutorial on responsive CSS without bootstrap: http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/tutorials/htmlcss-tutorials/a-simple-responsive-mobile-first-navigation/
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caseorganic thanks everyone for a great meetup!
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caseorganic i have to head out now
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aaronparecki.com created /events/2013-12-18-homebrew-website-club (+2024) "next meeting" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club-pdx.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+88) "add photo from PDX" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu interesting meetup notes. like npdoty I've been thinking about HTMLs potential use for marking up academic papers too...
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+62) "/* Portland */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2012-12-04-homebrew-website-club-pdx-pano.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2012-12-04-homebrew-website-club-pdx-pano.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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julian` http://julian.hotglue.me in comparison to http://julian.so
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@veganstraightedge If anyone has POSSEd posts to @medium about #indieweb stuff, I'm curating a collection about it. https://medium.com/indie-web (twitter.com/_/status/408471297790709760)
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aaronpk tantek's post about icons was motivation http://tantek.com/2013/338/b1/people-focused-mobile-communication-experience
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aaronpk !tell tantek I noticed you don't have an explicit rel="shortcut icon" on your individual post pages, so the browser falls back to favicon.ico. What are your thoughts on handling that? http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/11217290564_96f7c5e4de_o.png
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: FF on Android uses the .ico file for homescreen icon as well. see example: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Android_browser_comparisons
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KartikPrabhu FF and Chrome on Android
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KartikPrabhu yes.
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KartikPrabhu I wanted to use my logo for small sizes too. but that sort of seems wring
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KartikPrabhu wrong*
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KartikPrabhu how should webmentions handle urls with fragments i.e. #something? Can the mention source 'http://example.com/source' contain the link to target url but with a fragement as 'http://example2.com/target#fragment' ?
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KartikPrabhu I am just trying to parse webmentions correctly and I hit upon this thought. Currently it only matches exact url and won't match a link to a particular section for example
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KartikPrabhu i was also autosending webmentions where I was wondering if I should drop fragements before sending
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KartikPrabhu do you send the fragment in the source parameter?
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KartikPrabhu I am sort of asking both. So if source links to target.com#fragment then should it send the fragment in the target parameter of the url?
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KartikPrabhu ok alright that probably solves my problem :) thanks
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KartikPrabhu also does anyone use webmention to interlink their own posts? like "this topic was already discussed ina aprevious post"-type thing?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes I was asking for auto-sending too. thanks. back to writing python
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aaronparecki.com edited /icon (-199) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ update aaronparecki.com and caseorganic.com markup" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: why the double markup for 'shortcut icon'?
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KartikPrabhu ok. FYI, FF on Adroid still picks ico. Just tested
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KartikPrabhu yeah :( I thought that was your intention too! would have been great if it worked. Maybe put jpg first? but then browsers will take jpg too
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KartikPrabhu yeah. that would be ideal
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KartikPrabhu also tested caseorganic for good measure. same results
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@IARTG RT @WillowTreeNovel: Don't forget to check out the trailer for my new novel & share with friends! https://www.youtube.com/ #IArtg #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/408531187767209984)
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 3 hours, 13 minutes ago: I noticed you don't have an explicit rel="shortcut icon" on your individual post pages, so the browser falls back to favicon.ico. What are your thoughts on handling that? http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/11217290564_96f7c5e4de_o.png
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2013-338-sf.jpg]]""
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-18-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* RSVP */ RSVP. Same space booked @MozSF!" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.net created /User:Jonnybarnes.net (+118) "Created page with "== [https://jonnybarnes.net Jonny Barnes.net] == I'm from Manchester, UK. Just having fun, one line of code at a time."" (view diff)
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barnabywalters tantek: should homebrew website club maybe get a mention on the homepage?
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jonnybarnes if I syndicate a note to twitter, will twitter automatically linkify @usernames and #hashtags?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep, you send plain text to the twitter API and they do the rest
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barnabywalters you’ll still have to do your own auto-linking on the real copy
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jonnybarnes thanks, yeah that makes sense barnabywalters
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barnabywalters good night!
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@carolelynngill RT @WillowTreeNovel: Don't forget to check out the trailer for my new novel & share with friends! https://www.youtube.com/ #IArtg #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/408558780574859264)
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@TheMysteryLadie RT @WillowTreeNovel: Don't forget to check out the trailer for my new novel & share with friends! https://www.youtube.com/ #IArtg #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/408560386993315841)
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KevinMarks did you see Aral's launch: thelink.is/indielaunch
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barnabywalters KevinMarks: did he actually launch anything?
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KevinMarks he launched a future crowdsourced product
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KevinMarks he didn't actually trademark "indie" but he certainly used it a lot
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jonnybarnes does anyone know how to match hashtags in php?
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jonnybarnes I think this works: preg_match_all('/#(\w|-)+/', $note, $tags);
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I have a fairly battle-tested regex for this, give me a sec…
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jonnybarnes but I end up with two arrays, one with #tag and one with g
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barnabywalters here’s my function: https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/7804428
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KevinMarks #nowyouhave2problems
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jonnybarnes regex is a different beast, what is `(?<=^|\s)` in barnabywalter's gist?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: that’s actually probably unnecessary, it’s a non-capturing reverse match or some such arcane thing
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barnabywalters the wordpress regex looks better
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jonnybarnes preg_match_all('(^|\s|>)#([^\s<>]+)\b', $note, $tags)
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jonnybarnes gives error `unkown modifier #` for me
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jonnybarnes I think I've copied that out right.
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jonnybarnes has something changed in PHP5.5?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: you need to surround the regex with delimiter characters
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barnabywalters typically /, although | can be useful too if matching something with many / in
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barnabywalters so preg_match_all('/(^|\s|>)#([^\s<>]+)\b/', $note, $tags) should wor
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jonnybarnes it does, though it gives weird results. Not weird exactly. A post that contains tags #tag and #life gives result: http://paste.laravel.com/1c81
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jonnybarnes not sure why the array of spaces is there
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barnabywalters the array of spaces is the matches for the first group
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barnabywalters (^|\s|>)
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barnabywalters which will match the beginning of the string, whitespace or >
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barnabywalters so make that group non-capturing
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barnabywalters or just ignore it
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barnabywalters (?:) makes a group non-capturing
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jonnybarnes thanks
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: https://jonnybarnes.net/notes is looking good! you should add some h-entry to those notes so they can be parsed
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barnabywalters http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjonnybarnes.net%2Fnote%2F2 might be useful to test markup
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jonnybarnes sounds like a plan, tinkering on a local 'install' of my code atm, don't want to break anything in public now ;)
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: cool! are you using laravel?
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jonnybarnes yup
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barnabywalters nice, what’s it like? not used it myself but I use some of the illuminate components
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jonnybarnes I like it, though its my first time using a framework so i'm just learning stuff like mvc or dependency injection
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jonnybarnes should tags be case-sensitive?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: up to you to decide but I ignore case when searching tags
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jonnybarnes jihaisse: so if you want `être` a search of `etre` should match?
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@IndieAssistant RT @WillowTreeNovel: Don't forget to check out the trailer for my new novel & share with friends! https://www.youtube.com/ #IArtg #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/408612712609243136)
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 5 hours, 43 minutes ago: since my permalinks represent specific posts and not "me" (in the identity or rel=me sense), I don't think it makes sense to use my face - so I left my generic favicon there as is. If I think of a "tantek post" icon I can put link that up I suppose.
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barnabywalters morning aaronpk — how did homebrew website club go?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: plans to add icon markup to your site? http://indiewebcamp.com/icon
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aaronpk this is my iphone now: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3673/11217920205_e99d5e0913_z.jpg
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barnabywalters aaronpk: it’s done in the new version, should be moving that properly live this evening
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barnabywalters looking good!
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KartikPrabhu does anyone know if Google+ has a post api like twitter? I could not find any after extensive searching!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: :| ok thanks for the confirmation. I was hoping to POSSE to G+ but well...
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KartikPrabhu I have seen those. also using Google Voice! clever but I don't think it is worth the effort
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@TomOnTheRoof @t @indiewebcamp If I use IndieAuth to sign in to a web site, does that website get my email or other info from the authentication provider? (twitter.com/_/status/408685314375315456)
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@aaronpk @TomOnTheRoof No, the only thing returned is your URL. See "Verify the token" here: https://indieauth.com @t (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/12/05/1/indieauth) (twitter.com/_/status/408685792299470848)
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Loqi [mention] http://kartikprabhu.com/article/redux linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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hadleybeeman KartikPrabhu: Last I spoke to the Google+ team about APIs, they wanted to be extremely cautious about them.
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hadleybeeman Said they didn't want the "spammy feel" of Twitter, with so many input sources.
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KartikPrabhu hadleybeeman: spam happens on G+ anyway. just look at 'what's hot' section
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hadleybeeman (Personally, I thought that severely cut down on the innovation possibilities… but spam is indeed a price to pay there.)
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hadleybeeman I guess that's fair, KartikPrabhu. It goes to show that I don't pay attention to the "What's hot" section. :)
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hadleybeeman I don't think so, aaronpk. It was just a face-to-face chat.
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hadleybeeman Also, aaronpk & KartikPrabhu: worth noting that that was over a year ago. I don't know what they're up to now.
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KartikPrabhu hadleybeeman: yes. I haven't been able to find anything that says that they intend to have a POST api
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hadleybeeman That makes sense.
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hadleybeeman Ah, thanks snarfed. I didn't realise you were at Google.
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KartikPrabhu but they can have people post to their own stream from outside though (?)
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hadleybeeman Cool
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I mean. I should to be able to post to my own stream through an API from an app/my own site
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KartikPrabhu it is fair that others can't post to my stream like on FB walls
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah maybe.
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KartikPrabhu well there goes my POSSE to G+ idea. more time for other stuff
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KartikPrabhu so far that is what i do too. But would have been nice to to do it from my site admin.
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kartikprabhu.com edited /webmention (+0) "/* Should webmentions be sent for removals */" (view diff)
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aaronpk here's mine now: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3673/11217920205_e99d5e0913_z.jpg
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barnabywalters indeed, apple inadvertently gave web apps a huge advantage over native apps
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barnabywalters the ability to update their icons
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barnabywalters brian made an icelandic public holiday calendar website, which updates to show the date of the next holiday
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barnabywalters they can only do it when visited, which I suppose is vaguely analogous to updating a native app
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barnabywalters but nonetheless it’s an interesting and exploitable behaviour
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barnabywalters tantek: indeed, but no push updates unfortunately :(
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barnabywalters so it couldn’t, say, change to indicate availability status
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barnabywalters tantek: oh god yes. someone would do it ;)
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barnabywalters like animating <title> elements… brrr…
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barnabywalters tantek: no need to remember, I saw it ;)
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barnabywalters also bear in mind that my friends and I had our own private 90s web reenactment in secondary school
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barnabywalters indeed. (un?)fortunately our… output… was all hosted on transient silo-hosts and is now no longer around
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barnabywalters tantek: well, the line-mode browser recreation was intentional
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barnabywalters we were just messing around with this crazy “JAVA Script” thing
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barnabywalters yeah, we were slow to catch on to the wealth of brilliant learning resources
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barnabywalters preferring to copy+paste ‘the matrix’ simulators made in javascript
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barnabywalters but we got there in the end ;)
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barnabywalters when I’ve deployed then new taproot live I’ll see if anything from then was archived anywhere
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TQNY2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (webmention)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: woo! adding myself to the wiki page now :)
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barnabywalters all in all, a fairly seamless deployment — POSSE to twitter is broken but apart from that all seems to be well
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /icon (+464) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added wpc with historic and current" (view diff)
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barnabywalters it turns out apple’s inability to correctly parse space-separated rel values applies to ATOM feeds as well
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barnabywalters at least in old safari, only rel="alternate" is supported, not rel="alternate updates"
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /icon (+8) "/* Barnaby */ I am not the only barnaby (apparently unlike tantek)" (view diff)
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tantek last year even: http://indiewebcamp.com/feeds#2012
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barnabywalters tantek: what? no, I’ve never implemented that. was referring to deployment of the new taproot, not just the icon :)
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barnabywalters tantek: interesting idea, probably not worth the effort unless I changed my profile photo frequently
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barnabywalters although back when I was brainstorming ideas about social networking tools for power users one of the things I considered was one-stop profile photo changes
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:mobile-personal-home-icons-folders-mockup.jpg]]""
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acegiak for a while i took a bit of joy in using spammers/cold callers as targets for releasing pent up tension, but i've decided to stop doing that because i know i could handle that when i was a door knocker but i don't want to push someone having a worse time than me over the esge into a breakdown
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2013-339-tantek-home-posts.jpg]]""
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aaronpk acegiak: looks like yes: http://www.w3.org/Addressing/draft-mirashi-url-irc-01
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:mobile-personal-home-icons-folders-mockup.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:mobile-personal-home-icons-folders-mockup.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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barnabywalters acegiak: that doesn’t actually result in nested properties, and is perfectly legal
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barnabywalters the properties will all be at the same level
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-20) "/* mobile home template header icons folders */ no frameless - overcompresses" (view diff)
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barnabywalters elements can be nested however you want, properties will all come out on the same level
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barnabywalters until a h-x classname establishes a new microformat
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tantek aaronpk - this is what I was talking about http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#mobile_home_template_header_icons_folders
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:mobile-personal-home-contact.jpg]]""
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barnabywalters if it’s of any interest, here’s some mobile homepage UI brainstorming I did a few months ago: https://github.com/Taproot/design/blob/master/homepage-brainstorming.jpg
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:mobile-personal-home-contact.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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barnabywalters import is a good place to start as it allows you to concentrate on getting the UI working without having to build syndication or posting UIs
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barnabywalters that was the case with comments on taproot — I imported old notes with comments from diaspora before displaying indie comments
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:mobile-personal-home-icons-folders-mockup.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - this is what happen when you tap the "Contact" icon folder in my concept prototype: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Contact_expanded
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barnabywalters tantek: heh :) it is a little cryptic and badly scanned
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barnabywalters hopefully most of it will be a reality soon
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barnabywalters iOS homescreen as a prototyping tool — never heard that one before
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barnabywalters is it one of the twitter intent URLs?
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tantek aaronpk: https://mobile.twitter.com/t/messages
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snarfed on a related note, you all are probably familiar with it, but just in case, we found this page pretty good when we were working on handling de facto URL intent schemes on ios: http://wiki.akosma.com/IPhone_URL_Schemes
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snarfed http://handleopenurl.com/ might also be good, but i haven't tried it yet
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tantek per barnabywalters's observation: https://twitter.com/t/status/408745059480535040
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snarfed …on a totally unrelated note, i'm still ironing out kinks, but http://brid.gy/ is getting pretty usable and ready for alpha testers
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barnabywalters snarfed: I accidentally signed up before checking: does bridgy prevent backfeed of tweets which are POSSE copies?
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barnabywalters snarfed: but if someone POSSEs replies, will the POSSE tweets have webmentions sent too?
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barnabywalters this was the big stumbling block I hit up against last time I tried implementing twitter backfeed
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yes, worth checking though as I need to implement that before starting to use bridgy :)
