#indiewebcamp 2013-12-17

2013-12-17 UTC
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Loqi [mention] http://everwas.com/2013/12/blogs-as-personal-aggregators.html linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (pingback)
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abrereton i hope your christmas presents aren't worthless by christmas day
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@lindsey @samth @kjhealy Also, Mozilla Community Spaces host community events, like http://indiewebcamp.com/2013sfhd or http://t.co/gBBvydUfiE, pretty often. (twitter.com/_/status/412768148316643328)
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tantek.com created /2013hwc3 (+53) "short name" (view diff)
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acegiak So I want to share a song, It's not mine, I just want to say "hey maybe you should check this out"
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acegiak so I don't want to upload it to my server and host it myself
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acegiak The band has it up on soundcloud so I'm thinking I either embed that or link to it?
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tantek sounds like a bookmark post
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tantek or just a note
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tantek e.g. I post notes with video embeds all the time
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acegiak tantek: yeah I think the soundcloud embed works
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acegiak I was just thinking the other day about how I think I want to move towards hosting my own videos rather than using youtube for that
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acegiak not that I actually make videos, rather I write down ideas for youtube videos in a notebook that then never see the light of day
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acegiak so I Was trying to work out what I do for media that isn't mine
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tantek so I think the whole notion of "embeds" handles media that isn't yours
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@t @lindsey indeed! @MozSF hosts community events weekly, e.g. Homebrew Website Club http://indiewebcamp.com/2013hwc3 ... http://tantek.com/2013/350/t2/mozsf-hosts-community-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/412777355632201729)
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acegiak yeah the fact that soundcloud and youtube use iframes for embedding makes me think that works especially if I then also link to it
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tantek acegiak - would be great if you could note that about soundcloud on a page on the wiki, e.g. even a brief note about how soundcloud embeds work here: http://indiewebcamp.com/SoundCloud
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acegiak tantek: sure, I'll make a small note of it. also: indieauth doesn't like me putting ?rel=author on the end of my link to my google profile which google likes for the purposes of authorship
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tantek that's a misconception about ?rel=author (which is otherwise a hack for bad CMS's)
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tantek more details here: http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-author
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tantek in short, just use rel="author" - there's absolutely no need to ever use ?rel=author
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tantek especially if you're the one that controls your website
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acegiak.machinespirit.net created /SoundCloud (+309) "added minor description and note on embed usage by acegiak.machinespirit.net" (view diff)
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acegiak.machinespirit.net edited /SoundCloud (-11) "fixed link" (view diff)
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acegiak.machinespirit.net edited /SoundCloud (+11) "learning to use links in wiki" (view diff)
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Loqi [@richardolsen] RT @benwerd: "The decentralized web"
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Loqi a meme that's spreading fast. Pleased about that. http://www.freepress.net/blog/2013/12/11/decentralized-web #indieweb (http://twtr.io/fxmXxvc1s0)
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bnvk aaronpk: how's Hawaii treating ya?
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tantek.com created /soundcloud (+24) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /SoundCloud (+89) "stub, dfn, headings, see also" (view diff)
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Jihaisse Hello
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bnvk Jihaisse: hello
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@thierrymarianne @npua @bortzmeyer I wish we could always retrieve original sources of publications instead of their copycats. #POSE #indieweb #weboftrust (twitter.com/_/status/412930890764128257)
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tpinto_ http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/12/the-mission-to-decentralize-the-internet.html
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tpinto_ it's a nice piece. too bad it doesn't mention indiewebcamp
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek reminder, last Homebrew Website Club meeting of the year is TOMORROW night - in SF and Portland
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-18-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi jonnybarnes: tantek left you a message on 12/13 at 10:35am: re: "do not break at %`'"&.!?^" because for each of those frequently thier uses are contextually relevant and breaking at them (or removing them) changes the meaning of the text too much - could produce misleading text for the reader.
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Loqi jonnybarnes: tantek left you a message on 12/13 at 10:36am: re: "do not break at %`'"&.!?^" because for each of those frequently thier uses are contextually relevant and breaking at them (or removing them) changes the meaning of the text too much - could produce misleading text for the reader.
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Loqi jonnybarnes: tantek left you a message on 12/13 at 12:48pm: re: "do not break at %`'"&.!?^" because for each of those frequently thier uses are contextually relevant and breaking at them (or removing them) changes the meaning of the text too much - could produce misleading text for the reader.
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jonnybarnes thanks for the message tantek
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tantek oops - didn't mean to triplicate that
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jschweinsberg #m
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jschweinsberg woops
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snarfed tantek: you can blame the triplicating on Loqi, looks like he now accepts but doesn't confirm tells. :/ cc aaronpk
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Loqi woot!
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snarfed not quite, loqi, but nice try :P
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jonnybarnes lol, occasionally its obviouse Loqi is a bot
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snarfed not even irc is safe from the uncanny valley
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bret tpinto_, re the NY article, bnvk from mail is featured in it though!
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jonnybarnes has anyone ever thought of double tweeting? As in if the note to be syndicated fits do Note-part1... (1/2) then Note-part2 (2/2) (permashortcitation)
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jonnybarnes I suppose that would extend to more than two parts but that would seem "clunky" to me
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bnvk jonnybarnes: i've thought about that... would probably want to set a 2x tweet limit tho... but, also IMHO it's kinda against the goal of POSSE / IndieWeb
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snarfed i've seen lots of people do that, independent of indieweb or permashortcitations
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snarfed agreed that it's clunky, but meh
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jonnybarnes i agree that more than two would be clunky
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jonnybarnes it just annoys me when a note would fit into a single tweet but not with the permashorcitation
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jonnybarnes and then my twitter followers wiould be missing like two words
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jonnybarnes obviously for longer notes then just the single tweet
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snarfed yeah. similar to when a normal note (even w/o permashortcitation) doesn't fit though
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek jonnybarnes re: "annoys me when a note would fit into a single tweet but not with the permashorcitation" - you get used to it ;)
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tantek plus if you really want the whole thing to show up - you can put it in a Twitter Card summary like aaronpk does
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jonnybarnes I'm sure you do :)
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tantek Twitter Card summaries can ironically be *longer* than tweet length
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jonnybarnes yeah I noticed he's doing something weird
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tantek personally I do try to make my notes fit in <118 chars or so, but if they go over, I try to add a sentence or two to make the clicking through worth it
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tantek (i.e. not just "like two words")
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tantek snarfed, jonnybarnes I personally am not a fan of the "serial tweet" - in particular since Twitter provides no affordance for navigation back/forth across tweet permalinks from the same person.
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snarfed yup
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tantek that New Yorker article was good, and more about decentralization at lower layers (e.g. DNS) - so it's ok that they didn't mention indieweb
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tantek bnvk's quotes were quite good
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bnvk tantek: thanks!
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tantek note their cynical treatment of Diaspora and Freedom Box: "while both projects met their fund-raising goals and drummed up a good deal of hype, neither came to fruition."
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tantek it's more important to avoid that characterization than it is to get mentioned in MSM.
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bnvk the interviewer asked me point blank about Diaspora
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bnvk I talked up IndieWeb, shared links to monoculture and such... was surprised he left it all out
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bnvk he's a pretty aware dude tho, who actually understands a bit of tech- so prolly just didn't see it fitting in
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tantek bnvk - exactly - it didn't fit the narrative he was going for
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tantek which is fine. you've planted the seeds.
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jonnybarnes which New Yorker article is that tantek?
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tantek right now that's about the best we can hope for. either journalists are confused, and thus ignore it, or they see our successes, and document them.
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tantek jonnybarnes http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/12/the-mission-to-decentralize-the-internet.html
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tantek bnvk - this has been quite the epic year for indieweb achievements too. like we finally got peer-to-peer stuff working across numerous implementations. that's a pretty big deal.
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bnvk Yep! It truly has
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bnvk I'd really like to make a lil video that explains it better to Joe Public
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tantek bnvk - I agree. A 2013 indieweb summary video with interviews and screencasts would be awesome.
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bnvk Nice. Do you know how to do screen captures?
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tantek bnvk - not with current OS etc.
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tantek always seems to change often enough to be forgettable :/
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bnvk yep- hehe!
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tantek I think barnabywalters, aaronpk, and benwerd have had some success
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tantek see the videos page
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tantek wow just re-read https://projects.eff.org/~barlow/Declaration-Final.html which I haven't read in a long time.
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bnvk I think I have a license to some app that does it- if you collate a few URLs that highlight crucial moments, I'll start doing the capture & editing
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bnvk that document- hit me like a mack truck when I was in high school & getting into computers
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tantek bnvk - start here: http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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bnvk there's a lot of great stuff in those clips, but also a lot of content to wade through + it's already captured at mostly poorish quality / sound
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bnvk I'm thinking just high quality screen captures and then newly recorded video clips hopefully at better quality pic + audio
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bnvk kind of like a 3 - 5 minute trailer or sorts
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bnvk *of
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tantek bnvk - makes sense. perhaps leave !tell messages asking the creators of the videos to help you with your video project. (e.g. benwerd, aaronpk, etc.)
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bnvk good call
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bnvk heh, it's funny- I so much more prefer email for tasks like this :)
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tantek problem with email for tasks like this is that the very medium itself (longer messages) encourages scope creep, and then you end up never getting it done
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tantek the constraint of short messages encourages filtering and prioritization
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tantek so you *think* you prefer email, because you *want to* say more, but saying more is actually an anathema to getting more done.
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bnvk mmm- I'm writing 3 sentences
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bnvk :)
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tantek bnvk, and if it is a multi-step "project", then it's probably worthy of capturing those steps/outlines on a wiki page and iterating there accordingly
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tantek easier to skim one wiki page for the latest info than numerous emails for deltas of what might have happened when.
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tantek also doing it publicly on the wiki page encourages greater chance of serendipitous participation by others in the community
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bnvk Yah, my flow is I organize and create lists in Evernote from the pertinent bits from the emails as they come in.
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tantek why use Evernote rather than a public wiki page? just UI differences?
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bnvk a huge part of it is, I absolutely detest the wiki syntax & interface- like it makes my eyes bleed and my brain hurt
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bnvk I'd be more apt to contribute raw HTML
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tantek then just use double-space separated paragraphs. what's to detest about "* listitem" ?
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tantek just use the subset of wiki syntax that "works for you" and let others clean up
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bnvk what about bold? italic? link? img? headers? every time I jump into a page to contribute / edit my brain has to shift gears to recopy the snippet that someone else did
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bnvk I really like trying to organize my thoughts and ideas with those details, but just find a lot of friction between the wiki and my processes for everything else I do
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tantek I blow off bold/italic most of the time because I detest those syntaxes too.
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bnvk hehe
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tantek for links, just drop in URLs
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bnvk Github's wiki markdown is less cumbersome but still slows me down
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tantek same thing for images (anything ending with .jpg .png .gif gets auto embedded)
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bnvk right, they offer the nifty drag & drop
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bnvk brb foodz
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tantek for headers, just use double space separated single lines of text - Title Caps - people will figure it out
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tantek when I'm just braindumping as fast as I can to the wiki that's what I try to do - then cleanup later (or someone else will!)
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tantek editing existing pages does require more syntax "parsing" in your head I agree that can require more thinking
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bnvk tantek: noted :)
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barnabywalters good evening #indiewebcamp
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tantek good evening barnabywalters!
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barnabywalters does anyone have preferred js libraries/techniques for drag+drop file upload, with good mobile support?
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barnabywalters I finally got sick of having to email files to my server to post photos/audio
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tantek um, drag&drop with mobile? that's usually a bad combo (drag & drop is awkward on mobile)
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barnabywalters yeah, no drag+drop on mobile, but mobile support required one way or another
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tantek how about just make mobile support work?
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barnabywalters tantek: BECAUSE DRAG AND DROP
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barnabywalters but that’s probably a good idea
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barnabywalters maybe I’ll forego js and make uploads async by just putting the upload form in an iframe to start with
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barnabywalters turns out there’s rather a lot of UI to build to make good file uploading
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barnabywalters this might actually be a good use for postMessage
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tantek barnabywalters perhaps you can ask benwerd how he got his photo uploading working - the idno UI seems to work well for him
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tantek either way - perhaps you can document what you figure out and what approach you decide to take here: http://indiewebcamp.com/photo_upload
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tantek (bunch there already)
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barnabywalters ok cool, didn’t know that page existed
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tantek it's linked from /photos ;)
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tantek always check the page for the post type that you're working on :D
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tantek good way to refresh yourself with others' state of the art, so you can build upon that
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barnabywalters hm, “Photo upload is the act of creating a post whose primary content is a photo” is one limited case of file upload
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tantek limited?
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barnabywalters often I have multiple photos in a post, or want to upload files other than photos, e.g. GPX routes or audio files
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tantek more like 99.9999% use of file upload
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tantek in practice
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tantek (e.g. every new photo service/app, photo messages etc.)
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tantek makes sense to focus on the common use case
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barnabywalters I don’t really use any photo services or photo messaging app, but it’s true that single photos are a common case
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barnabywalters however I haven’t built a “photo” post type yet, and right now would rather make a slightly more general UI which can then be distilled down for single-photo posts
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snarfed.org edited /backfeed (-423) "brid.gy status update" (view diff)
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julian` anyone here willing to help me with an nginx problem?
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jameschivers.com edited /events/2013-12-18-homebrew-website-club (+90) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /nginx (+246) "add Questions and issues section" (view diff)
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tantek julian` I'm not an nginx expert myself, however there are a few folks here that have been documenting solutions on the wiki. Perhaps briefly describe your problem here and they can help: https://indiewebcamp.com/nginx#Questions_and_issues
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julian` i think its a config problem my config is here: http://p.ngx.cc/af
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julian` bobbabooth.com and www.bobbabooth.com go to the correct place but www.julian.so somehow goes to the bobbabooth index but julian.so alone goes to the correct place (so weird i know...)
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julian` restarting nginx fixed it lol :$ woops!
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jonnybarnes anyone here use PHPUnit?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I do
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jonnybarnes well, any testing really.
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jonnybarnes if I have a method ->funcA() that I've written a test for. And funcA calls ->funcB()
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jonnybarnes as in funcB would never get realistically called itself
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jonnybarnes should I write a test for funcB anyway?
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jonnybarnes is that the done thing?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: meh. basically test whatever needs testing, either because you need to be able to verify that it still works once you’ve made changes to it
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jonnybarnes either ... or?
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jonnybarnes :P
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barnabywalters oh, or because you need to understand its behaviour better
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